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Friday, December 26, 2008

Misc. (Not a very long wait now !)

Just a short wait now before the GoM recommendations are finally brought into motion. Hold on to your wits.

Whew. Some queries keep pouring in continuously.

I’ll attempt to clarify these.

Yes, DA is admissible on MSP, Chapter closed. Don’t know who is spreading this disinformation about DA not being admissible on MSP.

Yes, pension calculation of post-2006 pensioners is underway. It is taking time since unlike pre-06 pensioners there are no pension tables for post 2006 retirees. The pension of such retirees is basically 50% of last drawn / average of 10 months' emoluments and for that the office of PCDA(Pensions) Allahabad has to wait for data from agencies such as CDA(O). So hang on there for a little while, things are moving and they are moving fast, do not worry.

Yes, a discount of 20% on broadband net usage and subscription is available to defence officers and pensioners too. In fact, it is available to all serving and retired govt and PSU employees. Any doubts should be dispelled by having a look at this BSNL circular.

Thank You.


Anonymous said...

Hi Navdeep
Any news about the Maj Gens (of 5 CPC ) being paid the correct pension (rather than the Brig's pension )after the supreme court verdict?
If the govt pays them as per the supreme court verdict, what effect will it have on modified parity, on pre 1996/2006 pensioners viz a viz post 2006 pensioners( both Civil & Defence pensioners)?

Anonymous said...

My dear Navdeep,

It is confirmed CDA(O) is not paying DA on MSP eg

Basic Pay 48230
GP 8700
MSP 6000

DA 9109 (that is 16 % of BP and GP)16 % of 62930 is 10069.

No DA on MSP...

Anonymous said...

Dear Navdeep,
It is true that 'NO DA on MSP". This month's payslip just recovered DA paid on MSP for the last two months. If you have other news to reconfirm this , kindly do so.

Anonymous said...

what news on armed forces Docs getting CGHS pay. Atleast some one is at par with the civilian services. hooray for them.

Anonymous said...

@Anony 8:37 CDA(O) has not credited the DA on MSP because it was not very clearly mentioned in earlier order the carification regarding same has been recievd and it will be credited very soon.

@Navdeep 50% of last pay drawn/10 month avg pay is applicable w.e.f 02/09/08 prior to that it is 10 month avg pay only

Navdeep / Maj Navdeep Singh said...


Nothing technical but I was just trying to convey that the CDA(O) has to update the LPCs etc. It is easier for pre-06 retirees though.
Thanks for clarifying for the readers. :-)

Anonymous said...

Dear Warrior and Navadeep,

Firstly thanks.

I have been aghast at the Indian system and Bureaucratic mindset which is perplexing and illogical.

Take the case of MSP.

The CPC report is quite clear about it and also on associated entitlements.

There is the issue as why it should not be taken into account for calculating yearly increment.

when a brigadier is promoted to Maj gen his basic Pay is fixed in maj Gen rank taking int account ;

BP + GP + Rs 6000 notional as MSP + one increment = New Basic pay.

Here you see, the MSP hence forth has become part of Basic pay and eligible for calculation for the next increment. Why not before the rank of Maj gen??

CPC also lays down that at the time of parallel shifting of officers to PMF his pay will be fixed same as above including MSP being taken into account.

It simply means a Maj shifted to BSF will start drawing 6000 RS more as Basic pay and thereby will draw more increment than Army officer.

MSP however is untouchable while serving in the Army for the purpose of yearly increments till one becomes a Maj Gen or is transferred to CPMF....

That simply is Non application of mind and Non sense....leading to violation of the right of equality...


Anonymous said...

@anony 9:37pm very valid point AF & Navy had notionally given DA on MSP for the period 1.1.06 to 31.8.08 since it is applicable to post 2006 retirees (para 5 of govt order dated 11.11.08)and MSP takena as basic pay for Maj Gen.Further on 6cpc in para 2.3.12 it says edge to Armed forces after suitable enhancement be given as MSP but towards the end of the para contradicts mentioning that MSP being new element no arrears to be paid.Either the edge is not converted to MSP or its not a new element.If its not a new element than arraers should have been given.

Anonymous said...

A touching article by Mr.Shiv Aroor in his blog.

2008: One bad year...

I'm sure anyone with even a sliver of concern has noticed how acutely ironic these times are, and just what a gloomy year 2008 has been for the armed forces. Some say years like these come along once in a while, and bring with them enough baggage to last the collective consciousness of the the forces until the next bad year rings in. It could be a decade later, it could be two decades later. There's no telling.

I'm no military historian, but I can't think of a single modern year in which more searing moral damage has been dealt the armed forces than 2008. And as the year recedes (with good riddance), there's a cataclysmic irony of the flavour it leaves lingering in the air.

On Saturday, I visited the "protest road" outside Jantar Mantar in Delhi to cover the "fast unto death" by a group of ex-Servicemen. Veterans of our wars, sitting on the roadside, on an indefinite hungerstrike. A lady doctor from an ECHS clinic saunters in to give the strikers a once over -- blood pressure, pulse, the usual -- and leaves after carefully noting down their condition in a register notebook. Sepoy Sulaiman Khan. 8th Day. Pulse normal. Weak. Blood pressure normal. A retinue of General officers, including former Deputy Chief of Army Staff Lt Gen Raj Kadyan linger with the fasting group.

A retired JCO from Bareilly takes the microphone and spends 10 minutes calling upon his retired colleagues to abandon the Congress and BJP and to reclaim what's rightfully theirs, but politically. The widow of a jawan who died in the Kargil operations tearfully appeals to the crowd to never stop hoping, never stop fighting. It's not a particularly large crowd. I would urge anyone who lives in Delhi to visit the protest. It isn't spectacular. Nor is it loud or obtrusive. But it has a story to tell that should mortify us as a nation, each and every one of us. You may or may not agree with the demands that the ex-servicemen make of the government. But you always -- always -- leave with a stark, biting sense of injustice.

Remember, this is at a time when vengeance for the Mumbai attacks has rallied the nation like few recent events have. But that's just it. Here it is plain and simple. The very folks you need to fight your wars if you're ever have to enter one, are embittered, stricken and severely depressed. The damage that the 6th Pay Commission alone has caused would suffice to define the overriding sentiment among the armed forces in 2008. One of suspicion, a sense of treachery and betrayal. And most importantly, an utter and absolute loss of faith in the government. The semblance of silent respect is gone. Politicians are now perceived simply as self-seeking, heartless villains. And bureaucrats, only worse. All the decades of silent reproach that the forces have nursed for babus have come flooding out these last few months.

So damaging, as a matter of fact, has the 6thPC been on the larger psyche of the forces, that an amazing number of officers are convinced that the Malegaon probe (and its detention of an Army Lieutenant Colonel) is the UPA government's sinister way of telling the country that the armed forces are not the bastion of good that everyone thinks they are, and therefore, they don't really deserve what they're asking for. That may sound far fetched, but you'd be truly surprised how many folks in uniform staunchly support that theory.

If the Prime Minister now announces (as he is reportedly expected to) an acquiescence to the armed forces demands from the 6thPC, it may be too little, but it would definitely be too late. A great big chunk of the command and control respect that is the synapse between executive and military is gone. And needlessly.

2009 does not portend great things. But it does promise elections and change. Here's to better things.

AS said...

Dear Navdeep,
once again asking you about status of disability pension.has the recommendation of 6CPC for DP @ 30 % of pay (like civil)been accepted by GOI or not?letter on pre 2006 pension talks about INTERIM DP @ old DPx2.26 only.

Anonymous said...

i believe a look in the pay slip will confirm that there is no DA on MSP

Anonymous said...

@ALl and Navdeep..

NPO has given DA on MSP and has been giving from the day one.. Its only that this month Recovery has been made of the DA on MSP which was erroneously given for the perion 01 Jan 2006- 31 Aug 2008.. these dates have been clearly mentioned in Pay Slip too..

So for other service.. dun worry DA will be given on MSP to u too

Anonymous said...

Go through this:

So finally the Curtains have been drawn:

There will be a rush to bring down Col to 13 years service now....not bad..Brigadiers to 16 years and Maj Gens to 20 years....

Kots said...

The fact remains that CDA is not paying DA on MSP as reflected in Salary Statements since Oct to Dec 2008.
May be it will be another instalment of arrears!!

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the news, I hope you will keep us posted as soon as some thing official comes out.

Anonymous said...

@ ALL.. Its off topic but i am still posting the link


Please read what Chief Secretary Mumbai ahs said about deployemnt of MARCOS( No delay) and Indian Express is still crying that MARCOS were deployed late

Anonymous said...

Dear Navdeep,
Could you please clarify on the travel entitlements of an offr on leave. (ACI/ ACI or Air/ ACII till Lt Col, as hitherto before)

Anonymous said...

Dear Navdeep

kudos to you for the good work you are doing.please respond to....

1. why the forum is so silent about the plight of army doctors?
2. Are AMC doctors at par with the recommendations made for other central govt doctors

Unknown said...

Kautilya's sagely advice to Chandragupta on the Mauryan Soldier.

"Pataliputra rests each night in peaceful comfort, O King, secure in the belief that the distant borders of Magadha are inviolate and the interiors are safe and secure, thanks only to the Mauryan Army standing vigil with naked swords and eyes peeled for action, day and night, in weather fair and foul, all eight praharas (round the clock), quite unmindful of personal discomfort and hardship, all through the year, year after year.

To this man, O Rajadhiraja, you owe a debt: please, therefore, see to it, suo motu, that the soldier continuously gets his dues in every form and respect, be they his needs or his wants, for he is not likely to ask for them himself.

The day the soldier has to demand his dues will be a sad day for Magadha; for then, on that day, you will have lost all moral sanction to be King!"

Anonymous said...

I do not find any convincing reason for the delay involved in the submission of GOM report to the PM.Why should it take more than 3 months in sorting out the issues involved ?
Now the PM is further postponing the final decision on this report.
Each passing day is adding not only speculation but also frustration amongst the affected personnel by losing faith in the country's political leadership.
As it stands today ,the politicians are the most lowly esteemed class in our society amongst the common man,which had of course excluded the defence forces who were insulated class of its own repute.
6th Pay commission's manipulation by the bureaucracy has now created a deep mistrust between the politicians & defence forces ,besides a hostile atmosphere between variuos elements of civil services & military.Unfortunately it is fraught with grave consequences for the proper governance of the country ,which probably is not being realized by the Government.
Whatever be the decision on the demands of the defence forces , it is rather too late now to remove the malaise that has been brought in by the political & bureaocracy combine.

zaks said...

dear sir
whats about CI ops allowance etc for the serving offrs already in CI ops areas? do we need to publish part2 order for that?
in the salary fr dec, its not been increased as per 6PC!

zaks said...

CDAO has mentioned in the site about air travel under LTC80 scheme. but is there any AO given? what'll b the procedure to avail it?

Anonymous said...

The rumours on MSP have a basis in that the CDAO is not giving any DA on MSP. Has the issue been clarified to the CDA O by ministry or anyone? Is there any official communication on this ?ips

Anonymous said...

I am glad that the LeT finally got its act together to kill the so called elite of this country in Mumbai,(at least some of them) having missed out the manmohans and sonias at the parliament. I now feel sorry for having needlessly and misguidedly killed LeT sods for the last 10 years and lost many good officers and men. But then we were living in a fools paradise that this pay commission rudely awoke me from. If the babu-neta want gladiators instead of soldiers, so be it. They are ready to pay good money for my blood but my living flesh is not good enough for parity, is it?
Well, I swear, for what its worth, in memory of all my comrades, never to kill or contribute to kill another militant again.
I wish they carry out another professional attack but spare the poor. It will truly gladden my heart if they can do so and kill only the babus and the netas.
Also, the NSG CO ought to be sacked for losing an officer and an NCO.

Anonymous said...

If you want to know why the civil military relationship is in a tailspin, let us examine the fall in standards in the civil services. Once upon a time, the people who aspired to the civil services were people of integrity and capability. Now.....

http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage ... corruption


For babus, shoplifting worse than corruption

Aloke Tikku , Hindustan Times
Email Author
New Delhi, December 28, 2008
First Published: 00:45 IST(28/12/2008)

What is the yardstick for assessing the gravity of misdemeanours committed by bureaucrats? The Union Public Service Commission (UPSC) has made recommendations in individual cases, but the government hasn’t always followed its advice.

For instance, according to a report tabled in Parliament last week,[b] a woman Indian Administrative Service (IAS) officer was retired for shoplifting at London department store Marks & Spencer a decade ago.[/b] But other officers accused of corrupt practices have got away with milder punishments.

[b]The Uttar Pradesh cadre officer — part of an official delegation to Britain — was caught stealing two cashmere jumpers and a jacket. On the advice of a lawyer arranged by the high commission, she pleaded guilty and paid a fine of £150 (about Rs 11,000, as per current rates) imposed by the Magistrate Court of Marlborough Street.[/b]

The inquiry she faced back home exonerated her, but the red-faced government decided to make an example out of her.

[b]While the UPSC agreed her conduct was unbecoming of an IAS officer, it said compulsory retirement was too harsh a punishment. It recommended that her salary be reduced in two stages over two years.[/b]

The government, however, told Parliament last week that the misconduct made her retention “untenable and the penalty advised by the UPSC did not meet the ends of justice”.

[b]“Compulsory retirement seems too severe for a silly act like shoplifting,” said a senior government official,[/b] “especially when people who rob the exchequer go scot-free”.

[b]Like this senior diplomat posted as head of the chancery in Riyadh who reemployed his India-based domestic help but misreported facts by claiming $5,086 (Rs 2.5 lakh, as per today’s rates) as the help’s salary from the government.[/b]

The UPSC recommended compulsory retirement “at the very least” plus recovery of $5,086. The government, however, declined to accept the advice since the officer’s disciplinary authority only initiated proceedings for a minor penalty.

And then there was this IAS officer in West Bengal, who was let off with a “notional penalty of 5 per cent cut in pension” after an inquiry found he “failed to maintain absolute integrity”, acquiring assets worth Rs 7 lakh in excess of his known income.

(Officers’ names withheld by UPSC in all cases)

So an IAS officer is caught trying to steal some bum and tum tights from Marks and Spencers... should we really go so far as to fire her, this paper asks. Isnt it unfair, they say, to retire her, when an IFS officer can steal 5800$ from the govt as salary for a fake servant?

And when we have quotations from "senior government servants" suggesting that she should be let off, because shop-lifting is a "silly act", we see exactly how low standards have fallen in our civil services, and the reason for many of the ills in our governance setup today.

Maybe we shouldnt retire her. Maybe we should investigate what else she has stolen during her illustrious career.

At least other countries magistrates have the sense to convict thieves, even though in our country the stores owners would have just considered it a hafta.

Anonymous said...

It is a misnomer to state that MSP is to compensate for difficult life of the armed forces. In my view, it is to compensate for the stringent Air Force/ Army/ Navy Act (where a person can be executed, put behind bars, has restricted fundamental rights, No right to stop working beyond 42 Hrs in a week etc) applicable on us vis-a-vis Civilian Conduct Rules plus to compensate for the early retirement of 80% of officers vis-a-vis civilian Govt Servants. If parity can't be ensured then shouldn't armed forces personnel be subjected to an act more linient than the Civilian Conduct Rules and retirement age 65 yrs minus MSP? Just a thought for scrutiny.

Anonymous said...

Read with a critical mind but understand deterrance aspect as military men:



Anonymous said...

Even these core demands dont correct disparity. Without Rank Pay to be used for fixation of seniority, Col's, Brigs's, Captains, Majors, Lieutenants, and Lt.Cols have all been screwed.

The only answer:

1. Lt-> JTS
2. Capt -> STS
3. Major-> JAG
4. Lt Col->NFSG
5. Col _> Jt Secy
6. Brig-> Addl Secy
7. Maj Gen-> HAG+
8. Lt GEN-> Secy
9. Army Cdr -> Cab Secy
10. Full General -> A constitutionally protected post, above Cab Secy

Anonymous said...

Dear Maj Navdeep
If you can pls elaborate the two option to be given to CDA(O) for fixation of pay i.e wef 01Jan06/From the date of Promotion. There is a considerable difference in amount between the two. Spoke to CDA about this but they are as clueless as our government. It would really be of great help to the affected officers as they would choose the right option getting maximum financial benefits. last date for giving the option is 10Jan09.
Warm Regards
Maj Ajay

Anonymous said...

dear Ajay option depends upon date of your promotion and outcome of pb4 for lt col if you are promoted to maj upto jun06 option II is better.Just calculate your revised basic pay as per both then apply the formula (BP of option II-I)xno of months for promotion to Lt Col now add the arrears of option II and then compare the resultant amount with option I arrears which ever is more should be your option.Although there are other parameters also but this solve your query

Anonymous said...

Can anyone clarify the two option to be given to CDA(O) for fixation of pay i.e wef 01Jan06/From the date of Promotion for Lt Cols ?? What option to be given for Lt Cols promoted in AVSC I ??

Anonymous said...

Dear Ajay at December 28, 2008 8:08 PM and anonymous at December 28,2008 11:16 PM.What warrior said at December 28, 2008 9:30 PM
is the correct way of taking decision to exercise the option asked by the CDA.

For example

I was Major as on 01 Jan 2006 and promoted to Lt Col on 17 Apr 2006.My pay will be fixed as given under ‘Apr 2006’ if I opt for fixation of pay wef date of promotion, else it will automatically be fixed by the CDA as given under ‘Jan 06’:-

Basic Pay- 12250
Rank Pay- 1200
DP - 6725
Total - 20175
DA 24 % - 4842
Total - 25017
Rounded off - 25020
Grade Pay(GP)- 6600
G/Total - 31620

Basic Pay- 13500
Rank Pay- 1600
DP - 7550
Total - 22650
DA 24 % - 5436
Total - 28086
Rounded off- 28090
Grade Pay(GP)- 7600
G/Total - 35690

Suppose if I don't opt for fixation of pay wef date of promotion on 17 Apr 06, what will be my pay on the date promotion?.
Answer is - Maj pay fixed on 01 Jan 06 + one increment@3% on Maj pay fixed and the grade pay of Maj (25020+6600=31620) + Grade pay applicable to Lt Col(7600) on promotion as given below:-

Pay fixed on
01 Jan 06 - 25020

Increment - 950
Grade Pay - 7600

Pay on
17 Apr 06- 33570

If I opt for fixation from the date of Promotion, my pay on 17 Apr 06 will be Rs 35690/- as explained above under ‘Apr 06’. Thus there is an increase of Rs 2120/-per month(35690-33570)from 17 Apr 2006 onwards in my case. Since I have maximum portion of (ie 31.5 Months from 17 Apr 06 to Nov 08) after the promotion during the arrears period (01 Jan 06 to Nov08) it very well suits me. So I am ready to loose the arrears of Rs 23111/- @ 6603/-PM(New pay fixed(31620)-old scale drawn(25017))for the minimum period of three and a half month duration.(ie 01 Jan 2006 to 16 Apr 2006) to avoid the subsequent loss of Rs 66780/- @ Rs 2120/-PM for 33.5 Months).Thus the net gain will be approx 66780-23111=43669/- by exercising the option for fixation from the date of promotion. The arrears I have calculated is approx as I have not taken in to account the subsequent increment on 01 Jul 07 and 01 Jul 08. One has to carefully workout his arrears by both the way (From 01 Jan 06 as well as from the date of promotion) before exercising the option.

Once the placing of Lt Col into PB 4 is officially notified, one can opt for fixation of pay from 01 Jan 2006 irrespective of his date of promotion to Lt Col since he will be placed into higher Pay Band and his pay will be steeped up to the minimum of PB-4 scale(Rs 37400) from the date of promotion.

I think one has to exercise the option within three months from the date of issue of orders by the Govt. In our case it may be from the date of issue Army instructions. In case of any subsequent orders on further revision(ie Lt Col into PB-4) the option may be exercised within three months from the date of such orders.

May I request Maj Navdeep or any one to help us if any error is noticed in this comment.

Thank you all.

Anonymous said...

suno suno thakur ne hizro ki fauz banayi hai,ye log kya kar liye aur kya karenge

Anonymous said...

I wonder what is holding up official announcement of the GOM decisions even now! Any idea, Major Navdeep?

Anonymous said...

I would rather term this indecisive behaviour of the so called political leaders as well as bureaucrates as sheer APATHY & PROCRASTINATION.
It is this attitude that will cause serious repercussions in the minds of the concerned defence personal.One is utterly dismayed at the avoidable delay in issue of suitable instructions to remove all doubts/apprehensions of the affected .

Anonymous said...

Please read defence personnel for defence personal in the above stated comments.

Anonymous said...

Dear Major Sab,
Your blog is completely dedicated to the Officers. You have totally ignored the so called Sepoys (your Batman, Your orderly)Naiks, Havildars and ofcourse your pet JCOs., and their problems. Why because they cannot understand english and your blog. Please remember that along with one Major one Havildar also was killed by the terrorists in the Mumbai attacks. One Sepoy suleiman Khan is fasting unto death in Jantar Mantar Delhi for the fast 13 days. There is no mention in your blog. There are 5 exsm. including one Major fasting unto death. The demand is One Rank One Pension., for all irrespective of the date of retirement. Please give some life to the dying PBOR AND THEIR FAMILIES. WE TOO WANT TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO OUR DEMAND OF IMPROVEMENT IN PENSION. THE 6TH CPC HAD RECOMMENDED A PENSION OF RS.4800 TO A SEPOY AND RECOMMENDED ONLY RS.4100 TO A HAVILDAR. THERE IS NO BODY TO CRY FOR OUR DEMAND. PLEASE REMEMBER THE PBOR ALSO. WE ARE ALSO READING YOUR BLOG. WE CAN ALSO UNDERSTAND ENGLISH.

Brar's said...


Unknown said...

Dear Maj Navdeep,
Do you have any information on the fixation of pay & allces of RE-EMPLOYED OFFICERS, who were in service, as on 01 Jan 2006.

suresh said...

With due respect I request your personal indulgence on the subject.

Some points are mentioned under, which is creating frustation in border security force:

1. An officer in Border Security Force remains a Deputy commandant after putting in 15 to 16 years of service and officers in other central paramilitary organisation enrolled in the same year through same CPOs exam is either Second-in-command(2IC) or Commandant. However army officer becomes lieutenant colonel in 12 years and gets pay band 4 however BSFofficer is likely to become 2IC after putting in 17 to 18 yrs of service but he would remain in pay band 3.

2. Army personnel posted anywhere like in Army HQ Delhi are authorised full 60 days of annual leave, 28 days of casual leave and ration money. However personnel posted in BSF HQ at places like Bandipur etc in Jammu and Kashmir and similar places in northeast get only 30 days of annual leave, 08 days of casual leave and no ration money.

Now few questions that BSF personnel are generally asking but not getting the satisfactory replies is causing frustration in them.

1 Are we not staying away from our families?
2 Do we require lesser days of leave to spend time with our family?
3 The courses in BSF are like Army courses and the course covers conventional war subjects to give support to Army but still, why are we not at par with army ?
4 Our BSF act and rule is carbon copy of Army act and rule which says BSF is an armed force but why are we not considered as an armed force?
5 BSF personnel do not have any alternate tenure of peace and field like Army personnel and remain in Indian borders or line of control during their full service period then why our allowances are less than army personnel?
6 In all the places of militancy and line of control BSF units are under the operational command of Army Brigades doing the same task like Army then why BSF is not at par with Army where BSF constable is junior after putting in 20 years of service to an army lance naik who has put in 7 to 8 years of service?
7 Earlier the Identity of a BSF personnel in their villages was of a "Fauzi" and now they are neither fauzi nor police. Why this tragedy?

iqbal said...

I am reemployed in Bank. It is told that MSP will not be counted for fixation of Pay. And subsequently DA on Pension is to be stopped, where as DA is also on MSP in pension. This the double loss of MSP and DA on it. If MSP is not counted for fixation then how DA on it can be stopped. Sir Please your comments and views.

Iqbal Singh, Ex POR(Tac) Navy