Feel free to contribute on burning issues concerning the armed forces. Contributions would be acknowledged - Use the 'Comments' tab or email navdeepsingh.india[at]gmail.com. No operational/business/commercial matters to be discussed please. Legal advice/litigation related issues would strictly NOT be published or discussed or entertained. Information on this blog is opinion based and is neither official nor in the form of an advice. This is a pro bono online journal in public service related to issues, policies and benefits, and the idea behind it is to educate and not to create controversy or to incite. Be soft in your language, respect Copyrights.

Sunday, August 16, 2009

Pension of Lieutenant Colonels : some lingering doubts and clarifications

Many pre-06 retired Lt Cols have reported that their banks are not including the applicable weightage while calculating pension according to the new basic pension figure of Rs 25,700 promulgated through this MoD letter dated 21 May 2009. Some have even approached Banking Ombudsman and Consumer Courts on the issue. Officers are under the impression that in the tables annexed with the above mentioned letter, a weightage of 5 and 7 years for Lt Col (Time Scale) and Lt Col (Selection Grade) respectively is to be added in the years of service mentioned therein. For example, if a particular retired Lt Col (TS) has a service of 20 years, some officers are under the impression that the entry @ 25 years in the table has to be seen for the correct pension by including the weightage and that the banks are wrongly releasing pension as per the figure mentioned at the entry @ 20 years.

This contention of some officers is totally incorrect since the tables of the ibid letter have been prepared after taking into account the weightage in an in-built manner. Hence, when you see the figure @ 20 years, the pension reflected thereon is actually the pension calculated for 25 years’ service for Lt Col (TS) and 27 years’ for Lt Col (S). And that is the reason why full pension of 33 years’ service is reflected @ 28 years for Lt Col (TS) by taking into account an in-built weightage of 5 years (28+5=33) and @ 26 years for Selection Grade Lt Col (26+7=33). This modality is already made clear in the note beneath the table which says that the weightage has already been included in the table annexed with the letter.

Secondly, many retired officers of the rank of Lt Col have reported that their banks have not yet implemented the new basic pension of Rs 25,700 and some banks are still granting pension in accordance with the old rates. Some banks have even stated on record that they have not received instructions from CDA on the issue. This is an incorrect statement since the PCDA(P) had promptly issued detailed joint guidelines for re-fixation of the pensions of pre-06 regular Lt Cols and all ranks of MNS vide a circular dated 26 May 2009 and the same can be accessed by clicking here. A copy of this circular was endorsed to the RBI and Chairpersons-cum-Managing Directors of all Public and Private Sector banks. A print-out of the copy may please be provided to the concerned bank in case of inaction. A regular reader, Wg Cdr Rajeeve Lochan, also advises retired officers to email the concerned CMDs and ICs of Customer Care of the respective banks in case of a problem. Approaching the Banking Ombudsman or the Consumer Fora may be kept as the last resort if everything fails. We must realise that notwithstanding the lethargy displayed by some banks, there are bound to be teething troubles whenever such letters are issued after changes in pension modalities.


Anonymous said...

Hi Maj Nvdeep,
Thank you for the information.Could
you clarify the applicability of 18
months of ante-date of commission
to be added for total service for pension,as given in the PCDA website ? Who are all elegible for
this ?

Lt Coil G Kameswara Rao (retd) said...

Ante-date of commission is only for purpose of fixing seniority and pay but does not count for qualifying service for pension, is it not?Only Colour service and any civil govt service before Commission and also service in the ranks counts for computing qualifying service, I think.

Pokar Ram said...

Anony 9:12PM and Lt col GKR 5:46
Dear sirs
This issue has already been clarified by Maj Navdeep in the past. What has been stated by Lt Col GKR at 5:46 is the correct rule position.

paddy said...

Hi Maj Navddep
is the 70% pension for PBOR approved? can i get link of any GOI letter regarding the same.

i wish to bring out that most of the threads on this blog are generally about the welfare issues of officers with less focus on issues of PBOR.
if the issues of PBOR are also covered, it will be a good info for serving officers .it would benefit those in capacity of divisional officers who deal with sailor's welfare issues regularly as a part of divisional duties.

Anonymous said...

Dear Sir!
I am an Ex JWO. On implementation of Sixth pay commision, PDAs are suppose to fix the penion asper letter No 17 (14)/2008/D (pension policy) dtd 11/11/2008 of GOI , MOD, Department of Ex Servicemen Welfare, New Delhi. Asper which the pension should be consolidated asper para 4 of the quoted letter and compared with the pension consolidated vide para 5 of the letter, the benificial one is to be fixed. But, even after repeated circulars of PCDA(p) Allahabad, most of the pdas ( especially Centralised pension processing office of SBI at Chennai) are not following it properly. Either they derive only vide para 4 or they dont take the rank last held but the rank pensioned or don't refer the corrigendum PPO if any when they derive vide para 5. Due to which some percentage of people's pension is fixed lower than what they are suppose to get. Individuls whoever aware of the letter, like me ,may get the problem solved individually. But what about an individual who is not aware of his actual entitlement. Can you suggest something on this?

Ramani said...

Dear Navdeep,
A lot of personnel ae under the impression that the dispersal of pension by the pdas is final.
Actually ,this is only an interim arrangement so that the beneficiaies get their dues in time.The pension dispersing authorities, be it banks or the defense paymasters, are supposed send to the pcda/pay accounts officers the details of pension worked out based on vaious instructions and then the actual amounts distributed.
I am sure the pcda and paos ae workng on each individual case and work out the details. Subsequently they have to issue a revised PPO in each individual case.
Some of us if inadvertantly have been paid more are in fo a rude shock ,when the excess paid will be recovered in one go.All ths takes time.
correct me if I am wrong.

Anonymous said...

My Bank has still not revised my pension as per PB4 & obviously no arrears have been paid.Bank insists that it will revise only when it gets the revised PPO???PCDA orders have no meaning for them.
On 13th Aug I have received a letter from DCDA mentioning amendment to earlier PPO with regards to addition of "actual qualifying service" with no mention of 'TS' or 's' and no mention of weightage either.The same letter has been sent to my Bank also leaving the bank even more confused.Obviously this is not enough for the bank since it wants a complete new PPO clearly mentioning the new basic pension as per PB4.

Anonymous said...

As per PCDA website,18 months of ante-date is also to be added for qualifying service for pension.
Can someone throw some light on it after visiting the site ?

Nachhatar Sandhu said...

My Dear Major Navdeep,

You have very rightly advised to send e-mail to the CMD of the concerned bank and see the results. In my case when I noticed that the bank was not cooperating then I sent e-mail to the CMD of the bank and result was there within two days. I got all my dues immediately.

Pokar Ram said...

Navdeep / Maj Navdeep Singh said...
@Wingco Deepak

Ante date seniority does NOT count as qualifying service for pension.

However all commissioned and pre-commissioned service, incl service in other central govt departments IS counted as qualifying service. Confirmation of Permanent Commission or grant of Permanent Commission has no relationship with qualifying service.

July 17, 2009 11:55 PM

Penmil said...

@Pokar Ram,Aug,17,1:55PM
The PCDA site at http://pcdapension.nic.in/comm/qs.htm says the following"
Qualifying Service for Pension
The minimum period of qualifying service (without Weightage) for earning retiring pension shall be 20 years (15 years in the case of late entrants).
Actual qualifying service rendered by the officer plus a weightage (in years) appropriate to the last rank held as indicated below subject to total qualifying service including weightage not exceeding 33 Years.
A fraction of a year equal to 3 months and above but less than 6 months shall be treated as a completed ½ year. Similarly, nine months or more but less than one year shall be treated as a competed one year and reckoned as qualifying service.
This shall, however, not be applicable for completing minimum qualifying service for pensionary award.

Periods of Service Qualifying Service for Pension

Service as a permanent regular Commissioned Officer
Service rendered before attaining the age of 17 years.
Embodied or called out service as an officer of TA or Auxiliary Air Force subject to refund of gratuity, if any.
Service in the rank if followed by permanent regular Commissioned service without a break subject to refund of gratuity, if any.
All leave including study leave with pay.
Period of suspension from duty when the officer is not brought on trial or court martial with result favour-able to the officer.
Service under an Office /Department/Ministry of the Central or State Government.
Any period of Civil service under Central or State Government. if followed by military service subject to refund of gratuity, if any.
Service rendered in the autonomous bodies
The period of ante-date of commission and the period of Secondment subject to the following maxima:-
Ante-date of commission –18 months
Secondment -12 months
when both ante- date and Secondment granted – 24 months
Service rendered in aid of civil administration."
How do we reconcile that ante date is not counted for pension?
Will be grateful for any reference which amends the PCDA statement.

Anonymous said...

Maj Navdeep,your confirmation about 18 months of ante-date for qualifying service for pension as given in the PCDA website
is still awaited.
Could you please clarify this point at the earliest.
Thank you.

Unknown said...

Dear Navdeep,
Thanks for the info. However the pay band IV for the AMC / ADCorps / RVC was separate namely Rs 40010 to 67000/-. If that be case then the pension of pre 2006 pensioners should be fixed at Rs 27005/- (for 33 yrs service) if we are to follow the spirit of Para 5 of the MOD GOI Dept of Ex-servicemen welfare letter no 17(4)2008(1)D(pen/Policy) dated 11 Nov 2008 which states that the the consolidated pension in no case shall be lower that fifty percent fo the pay in the pay band plus grade pay plus MSP of the corresponding pay band.

Somehow this has been missed out and the PDAs are not taking accepting our requests.

Suggestions / comments anyone.

Lt Col G Kameswara Rao (retd) said...

MOD letter dt 21 May 2009 says "Lt Col (substantive)" but NOT "Lt Col (Selection Grade)" as mentioned by you in the blog. Banks are not understanding the difference between Subtantive and Time Scale. because the PPOs do not mention (S) or (TS) after the rank.
As instructed by DPPW, PSAs should forthwith issue corr PPOs showing all the particulars of Date of birth of all pensioners and family pensioners for the PDA to be able to give the additional Pension; Whether substantive or time scale
in tha case of Lt Cols for granting the protected minimum pension as per annex II.Even Govt DPDOs are unable to give the correct pension because of the absence of these particulars specially for the old pensioners who retired long ago and in whose PPOs these informations were not included then as there was no requirement because these new entitlements were not envisaged ! AMC Medical LT COLS with MR personal Numbers are always substantive , but the Banks /DPDO do not know it ! The Govt MOD and the PCDA(P) should immediately issue a general circular to all PDAs giving these clarifications. Further , asking pensioners who completed their Matriculation 5 or 6 or more decades ago to furnish the Matriculation certificate now is ridiculous. Does not the Record Office have the information about the date of birth of the retired person and the spouse in their records? If they cannot trace the same for an 80 year old pensioner how do they expect the individual pensioner to keep the record of matriculation certificate at this late stage of life? The elctoral identity card should be included as one of the age proofs without any pre-conditioins for furnishing a certificate that they have not studied matriculation or equivalent .

richhpal said...

70% pension to pbors is agreed by the govt or not

nononsense said...

Dear Maj Navdeep,
Seeking a clarification, hostel subsidy and CEA are applicable only for school going kids or are college going kids also eligible for the same. If not, can something be done about it.

Anonymous said...

I want to know if acting Lt Col and substantive Major retired at 20 years of service would get the same pension or there would be a difference of Rs10,000 in their pensions.

Unknown said...

Hi Navdeep!
I am Wg Cdr S.C. Bhutani, retired from the the Technical Branch of the IAF. On joining the IAF, we were told during the training that ante date for technical officers is applicable for PAY, PENSION and PROMOTION.
Could you please advise whether the Antedate of commission is to be added (to Qualifying Service)to compute the pension as per Annexure to MOD letter no 17(4)/2008(1)/D(PenPol) dt 21 May 2009.
May I also have the authority to be quoted to the PDAs.

Unknown said...

dear Major Navdeep,
It has been clarified by you on 16 Aug 2009 that Rank weightage is not to be added to "actual service rendered" to find the "Qualifying Service" for the purpose of determining pension as per ANNEXURE to MOD letter dated 21 May 2009 - as the weightage has already been taken into consideration while preparing the said ANNEXURE.

Another doubt which has not been clarified is-wether the ante date of commission is to be added to find out the "Qualifying Service" of the said ANNEXURE.

Your service to the defence community is highly appreciable & commendable, specially by the retired lot as they reman cut off from the information.

Wg Cdr AK Sharma (Retd)


Pension commutation table has been revised with 8.5% of interest rate which a great injustice with all defence personals got retirement on or after 1 Sep 2008.

Recommendation of 6CPC for scarping of waitage for DCRG is also ont fair.

grant of Pension fifty percent of basic including grade and military service pay is also not judicious as prior 1 Jan 2006 basic pension was fifty percent of higher band of basic pay of that perticuler rank e.g Basic pay of a Sub was 6600-9320 hence basic pension of sub was 4660 which as exectly fifty percent of higher band or 70 percent of approx existing what ever.

These points required to highlighted and brought in notice of authority so that justice could be done to the poor soldiers.

Thanks & Regard

Kundan Singh RAwat
ex Subedar

Anonymous said...

Maj Navdeep Hi !

My mother is drawing a family pension after demise of my father ( ex- IAF MWO ) for the past 20 years.

Over the years, she has taken to illness of being a diabetic, Weak Heart, Arthritis etc. Is there any compensation for medical treatment as there is no defence medical facility in close proximity.

This is great stuff you are doing and definetely look forward to be in touch more.

Best Wishes.

Murugan Chellappa

kunal said...

Jai hind sir
i am a ex-servicemen,i took a voluntary retirement from (AEC)army education core then i was appointed in education department as a (TGT) state of himachal after that i was promoted Lecturer &then headmaster but i was not promoted to principal as per R&P Rules of state govt because they want 15 years total service in state govt or 3 years as a headmaster or 15 years completed with 2 years essential service as a headmaster
per R&P RULES in which i am fulfulling the condition of 2 years service as a headmaster. my Q is that i was recruited in army in 1980, retired in 1998, re employed in state in 1999, i have long experince in education 18 years in army & 12 years in state, if service rendered in army considered to be counted or not. Any latest law or authority of Supreme court in our service of army counted in state govt as mention in Demobilised Armed forces perssonnel rules1972 in H P Local laws.
thank you Sir Iam an advocate ex-servicemen is my client. Please advice me immetiately or may kindly send authority of hon'ble Supreme court of india latest. i am also trying to join TA commission which is prestiges organisation in the world.
kunal verma

rock1979 said...

LETTER NO D.T.V.C T.R/1/30/(D)85/690 DT 19/12/1985.


Unknown said...

I retired pre mature with 28 yrs 4.5 months service seniority basic (18300+9150) avr pay. i was given cutoff date 18 nov just 33 days prior to AVS report implication. confirm my pension. bank is giving basic 33225.
LtCol Pk Chaturvedi IC-37452