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Monday, January 26, 2009

What placement should Lt Cols expect ?

Firstly, good wishes to all visitors on our Republic Day. Also our hearts go out to the families whose kin have been awarded posthumous gallantry awards. Special felicitations to Lt Col Saurabh Singh Shekhawat, Shaurya Chakra, Sena Medal, Vishisht Seva Medal, who has today been awarded his fourth Presidential Medal - the Kirti Chakra. Col Shekhawat is from 21 PARA (SF).

Though I have an uncanny feeling that the govt is (initially) going to grant Rs 37,400 as a replacement of pre-revised start of Lt Cols (Rs 15,100) in Pay Band-4, the defence services have rightly sought a starting placement at Rs 39,690 in light of Para 2.2.21 of the 6th CPC. Here is what may be implemented if our stand is agreed upon :

Officers @ pre-revised 15,100 : New placement @ 39,690
Officers @ pre-revised 15,500 : New placement @ 39,690
Officers @ pre-revised 15,900 : New placement @ 40,890
Officers @ pre-revised 16,300 : New placement @ 40,890
Officers @ pre-revised 16,700 : New placement @ 42,120
Officers @ pre-revised 17,100 : New placement @ 42,120
Officers @ pre-revised 17,500 : New placement @ 43,390
Officers @ pre-revised 17,900 : New placement @ 43,390
Officers @ pre-revised 18,300 : New placement @ 44,700
Officers @ pre-revised 18,700 : New placement @ 44,700

Para 2.2.21 of the 6th CPC:
"It has also been ensured that a person drawing higher basic pay in any Fifth CPC pay scale is not fitted lower vis-à-vis a person drawing a lower basic pay irrespective of the pay scale"

Hence, logically speaking, keeping in view the spirit of Para 2.2.21, the fixation of Lt Cols (Rs 15100-18700) should be akin to the erstwhile 5th CPC scale of Rs 15100-18300 and not Rs 14300-18300. Let’s see what happens. There is bound to be some wait before PB-4 and the new replacement scales are ultimately notified and implemented.


Anonymous said...

I am surprised to read such a peak of optimism. So mot it be !

Anonymous said...

Dear Sir

The blog is certainly doing a good job, literally, in putting words into the mouth of the government,as to what specific notifications should be issued.

As far as notifications in respect of civilians are concerned,it is for information of all concerned that the recommendations at para2.2.21 of the 6th cpc have not been implemented.

There are hundreds of live cases of officers earlier drawing higher basic pay in different 5th cpc scales and presently fixed in lower basic pay in the revised 6th cpc scales. The reason being that the clause irrespective of the pay scale in the the 5th cpc has not been adhered to.

Ofcourse within the same 5th cpc scale of pay, an officer drawing a higher basic pay, has certainly been fixed in a higher basic pay in the corresponding revised 6th cpc pay band and grade pay.

The information is brought out just to keep the record straight.

The views expressed do not any way suggest that higher pay packets should be denied to anyone,by using any favourable law points.


Anonymous said...

@NAVDEEP SIR ..But the main issue is grade pay..one may get higher pay in a particular pay band but what if the grade is fixed lower..???

Anonymous said...

The latest information provided by You is very Good as these are not available through any other channels. However, the PB4 for Lt Col is still appears to be a distant dream. Though some positive response were heard through some new channels on 01 Jan 09 quoting a PMO release with due confused clauses of deputation and Field Service. However, even these confused orders were never authenticated by any official release from MOD or Army Head Quarters. And the environment (especially superceded Lt Cols, who otherwise have no chance of getting into PB4), stays in utter confusion regarding PB4 and their likely salaries and arrears, while Government is taking its own sweet time in delaying the matter and continuing the confusion. One doesn’t understand that when in Sep after much debates on many TV Channels, various Government sources assured that the matter will be resolved by Oct end, why there is still so much of delay and confusion. It only shows one thing, that on their own Government (Politicians as well as bureaucrats) are least interested in resolving the matter and at least to give PB4 to Lt Cols easily and not without some clauses or conditions. May be they will not make it effective from 01 Jan 2006, but from the date of announcement, thus making officers to lose out on arrears and those retired between 01 Jan 2006 till date of announcement lose out completely on PB4 benefits. Or they want the matter to stay in these confused clauses till elections are announced and they wash their hands away. Who are the losers, only and only the Defence officers. Not only they are losing their much deserved entitled money and interests but on mental peace also, due to the laxity on part of authorities and treatment they are getting. One can have faith on Senior Army Officers for their commitment to resolve the issue, but same cannot be said for Politicians and Bureaucrats. So chances of a clean and straight ‘without clauses’ grant of PB4 to Lt Cols and equivalent are bleak and are getting bleaker as time is getting passes, especially when one sees it still unresolved clear three months after the heated debates on TV Channels in Sep 2008. Times of India of 26 Jan 2009 has a news that Chairman of the principle personnel officers’ committee of the Armed Forces, Vice Admiral DK Dewan has now written to Government regarding deputation and ready to combat clauses.

balli said...

Dear Navdeep, Going by ur today's posting should it be presumed that one can take legal recourse for implementation/fixation of pay in accordance with para 2.2.21 of the pay comm, or is there a catch somewhere beyond the comprehension of legally unqualified pers like me.

Anonymous said...

I am surprised to hear that Lt Col will be fixed at 37400/- as per civilin officers scale of 14300-18300 instead of 15100-18700. Well if we may recollect, even Colonels and Brigadiers have been fixed in accordance with erstwhile S 24 scale (Colonels with starting basic of 15100 + 2000 rank pay ) instead of S 25 Scale (15100-18700 for civilian officers). This was I suppose an anomaly raised by service Headquarters. Well to expect, lt colonels to be fixed in S 25 can be a far fetched dream to say the least. If rank pay is taken into consideration, then all things will fall into place for all rks. But will it be?

Now Maj Navdeep has got an uncanny feeling that this is coming through then obviously it is coming through. One thing is very clear that nothing postive has come out on three core anomalies and seven anomalies brought in during publication of SAI/NAI etc by MoD.

All the best to all. We shall remain hopeful ... till ..

Warrior said...

dear Navdeep the scales mentioned by you are corresponding to s-25 fixation Initially for fixation of Colonel same s-25 was proposed by armed forces butfixation came as per s-24 do you think if they did not give s-25 to colonels they will give this to Lt colonelFurther as per your suggestion Lt Col at 17100 gets 42120 where as col with 17100 has been fixed at 40890.Do you mean that colonels pay will also be revisedas per s-25 scale to methis seems unlikely

Suman said...

Dear Maj,

Are the Lt Cols of MNS are not vulnerable to the missiles and bombs, which affect the Lt Cols of AMC working beside her? Is the record (GS), MF, APS and JAG Lt Cols are nearer to the war zone than a MNS Lt Col attached to a field ambulance? Why so much untouchability in India, when there are many Nurse Commissioned Officers Commanding Military Hospitals in US Army? Whereas the Pakistan Army had redesgnated their half of MNS in 1967 to a Nurse Corps, the Idian Army wants to remove even the Commissioned Officer tag from MNS Officers? When the almost every country of the world has Nurse Corps in their armies, the Indian Army Cheif is afraid that placing the Nurses on the recommended pay scale will affect the Patient Care. Para 2.3.20 of the SPC report, recommended that, “The Commission, however, is of the view that no differential in salary of officers belonging to the Services or MNS is justified and that the pay band and grade pay of similarly designated posts in Service Officers cadre and MNS cadre should be same”. If he is so much concerned about Patient Care why don't we make the Army Act, 1950 fully applicable to the MNS cadre for better discipline, instaed of curtailing their pay?

Mangusta said...

Since the inexplicable rank degrade by the SCPC over the last few months, we have felt far more helpless than, say, while leading men in 400 sq kms of jungle outnumbered ten to one. Or many similar tricky situations that all of us go through. It is debilitating that our own people (I mean the civilian bureaucracy and political leaders) are hell-bent to raze (sic) the pride of armed forces officers.
Are they afraid of us?! Or, are they merely ignorant? They are certainly ill advised. Do they not know that at the end of the day soldiers/sailors/airmen willingly risk their necks because they are led to do so – and the leader leads because he thinks 'no end of himself' and his fear of losing that respect is greater than the fear of breaking his neck.
I think (and hope) it is ignorance that is prompting the political leadership to cave in to the bureaucracy. It is my fervent hope and prayer that the Chiefs do not follow suit.
I must admit that I have had nightmares, wherein I have done unspeakable and un-soldierly things to imagined enemies (bureaucrats). I hope am not the only 'nutcase'. But, that merely exacerbates the negative feelings. I suppose we just need to have rock solid faith in the Chiefs' integrity and sagacity.

Anonymous said...

1. I was Cdr(IN) as on 01-01-2006, basic Rs 16300.
2. Promoted to Capt(IN) on 01-07-06.
3. Paid capt(IN) from 01-01-2007.

can you pls tell me how my basic will be fixed as on 01-01-2006 and again as on 01-01-2007 and finally 01-09-2008.

Sathye said...

The malicious manoeuvre aimed at degrading military ranks has an unintended byproduct. A Padma award to a crony.

Anonymous said...

As on 01jan06 my basic was Rs 16300, Cdr(IN). I got promoted as Capt(IN) on 01Aug06 and I was paid Capt from 01Jan 07.
How will my basic be fixed (with Lt Cols eqv in PB4 now) as on 01Jan 06 and 01 Jan 07.
Thanking You

Anonymous said...

thanx!4 responding...Can we now request u 2 updt us whenever our govt wd' find it convienient 2 address PB4 & make us wise on our emoluments as army offrs subject 2 army act in orgs like DGQA n host of other such estts but not or proposed to not to be considered even to be combat ready...I don't think that this implies that our govt has been made 2 assume that LTCOLs in such orgs shall not be recalled 2 address call of duty if our neighbours decide our govt is as hollow as it has made itself 2 seem in the eyes of nation & def forces...LEARN EVEN 5% OF 35 WORDED COMPLIMENT 2 DEF FORCES BY GREAT OBAMA, THEN IT MAY REDEEM MOST OF UR SINS COMMITTED TOWARDS INDIAN ARMY, NAVY & AIR FORCE...DO WAKE UP OUR REVERRED GOVT !!!! No use talking 2 deafs... signing off!!! But, navdeep sir TUSI SAADI HOPE HO,ring in JUSTICE..may GOD give u ALL the HAPPINESS !!..by annony @ 2.52 AM ON 20 JAN 09..in blog on "High time this mudslinging..."dt 12 jan 09.PL GIVE GOOD NEWS SOONER THAN EARLIEST..RAB RAAKHA.

Anonymous said...

Dear Sir,
When is your military law site would be activated, we are eagerly waiting for that.

Anonymous said...


Santy said...

Dear Sir

Can you highlight whether Lt Col have been placed in PB4 already, as my bank seems to think otherwise

Thank You in advance

Cdr Santhanam

Anonymous said...

Can any one clarify my doubt: Do Lt Colonels (S) who retired in Nov 2005 get Qualifying service of 7 yrs?. Won't there be a disparity in people who retired in Nov 2005 & Jan 2006 since 2006 retirees do NOT have the factor the average salary.

Anonymous said...

Dear Navdeep,
Your uncanny feeling i am sure is based on inside information or the grapevine,i am sure.Anyway hope you are right and a great wrong will be set right.the increase in morale of our defence forces cannot be quantified but will be definetly high and you may rightly be thanked for your selfless efforts.
keep up these morale boosting efforts.

Anonymous said...

Dear Maj Navdeep,

Will there be no efect of bunching?


Anonymous said...

Keep talking.. navdeep sir!
ur words are like FFD in a hy arty shelling laced with NBC.May GOD put ur uncanny feelings in the en minds & they wake up now.Becuz'NOW is than better never'..regards.

Anonymous said...

Dear Friends,
keep calculating,If they wanted to give you the pay you deserve and fall in the pre revised scale of s-25 for lt-cols,then why it was not included in the begining.
We have to confront and ask these baboos directly why they are playing game of maths .

Ashish said...

Navdeep Sir,

I recommend that the comments should not be moderated but all useless comments and also those comments which degrades the basic social ethics could be deleted.

Anonymous said...

Dear Sir,


Anonymous said...

From services headquarters matter has been taked up with MOD for removal of deputation as well as comaat readiness clase on 14 Jan 2009 along with the fitment scal of Lt Col and certainly it is not the one published by Maj Navdeep it is less than this scale ,The communication sent to the MOD has been signed by Vice Admiral Devan COP, Navy on behalf of Principal staff officers committee. Decision by MOD is likely to be in months time hope fully.

watchdog said...

Dear Navdeep,
Since fixation of Col & Brig has been done as per S-24, the best Lt Col can hope is starting at Rs 38530.Of course as and when the so called high powered (!) committee submits the recommendations and Govt accepts them all can expect refixation and revised Grade Pays.Untill then we wait.

gp capt sekhon said...

Navdeep, jai hind,I have been a regular reader of your blog,its invaluable,thanks.I retired on 30sept 07,may i request you to plz tell me-when can i expect my arrears of my pay according to vi pay comm for 21 months(jan 06- sep 07) and arrears of my pension from 30 sep 07. i retired as gp capt(TS) of flying branch if possible my both the emoulments. thanksfeb16,2009 2200hrs

mac said...

Maj Navdeep please may I ask why Lt Cols have been kept at a GP of 8000 in which is not in 6th CPC. Its illegal and when I am applying for deputation I am either competing with a very low GP i.e. 7600. I am not aware of the issues. May i know please. I feel that instead of creating new GP they should have moved everyone else up.

Can you please throw some light please.