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Sunday, September 28, 2008

Reports of differences with the govt are not correct : Army Chief

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The Army Chief has clarified on ‘Times Now’ that reports of differences with the govt are not correct. So there you have it Indian Express. It is great that this has come from the horse’s mouth and should quell all rumour mongering. The reports from the start seemed unbelievable since the Defence Minister and the Prime Minister both were always in favour of resolving the core anomalies concerning the defence services.

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19 comments:

Anonymous said...

Hi Folks.
Don't forget to watch NDTV 24X7 at 10 pm,special programme - "MEN IN ARMS,UP IN ARMS."
REGARDS

Anonymous said...

To whom we are trying to fool. It is the misrepresentation of facts which is now spoiling the mind of youngs and young officers in armed forces. The parity is already given even better than the Civilians. Earlier Lt Col was a selection post and rank of Lt Col was given to approx 20 % of the officers by selection, even then they were equal to JAG grade only and Col were eq to JAG NFSG. After the AV singh I all Maj are being promoted as Lt Col in 11 year of their service without any selection board , whereas civilian counterparts have to face two DPC's based on vacancy only and in some cadre they get this JAG only after 17 to 18 years of service. Therefore even granting eq of Lt Col with JAG is much higher. Pre VI th pay commission all Col were called Dir in ministry/ sena Bhawan and were eq to JAG NFSG only. So the parity have already been given. Please do'nt spoil minds of disciplined force. Also see the Govt Notification by Ministry of defence . This is being follwed in all mixed organizations. In any case all Lt Col non Selection are supposed to wk on appointment of Maj only post AV Sing I , please check the facts .
Here is the Gazzette of India Establishing the Equivalence. I hope u will not put Govt Notification in Grocery Shop. When we talk , we talk with authority and Govt owned documents.
MINISTRY OF DEFENCE
CORRIGENDUM
New Delhi, the 12th February, 2007'
No.1 (E).-The following further amendment. is made to Govt of India, Ministry of Defence Notification
dated 4th November, 1937 Laying down equivalent ranks in the General Reserve Engineer Force and the Regular Army for the purpose of the Army Act, 1950 as applied to the General Reserve Engineer Force,namely:-"'--
(Gcneral Reserve Engineer Forl.X Regular Army
Chief Engineer Major General*
Superintending Engineer (Functional Scale) Colonel
Executive Engineer (Non-Functional Selection Grade) lieutenant Colonel
Executive Engineer Major
Assistant Executive Engineer Captain
2. The inter-se-seniority between the Colonels and Superintending Engineers (Functional Scale) will be with reference to date of their assumption of charge as Superintending Engineer(Functional Scale)/the date of appointment as Colonel. The inter-se-seniority between
other ranks at different levels will be decided similarly.
*The post of Chief Engineer may however be held by a Brigadier till such time sufficient number of Major Generals
is not available from the regular Army.
Ref .No. BRDBI06/86198/GE-Il
HARCHARANJIT SINGH, Scy., BRDB & JT. Seey.

Anonymous said...

"Pataliputra rests each night in peaceful comfort, O King, secure in the belief that the distant borders of Magadha are inviolate and the interiors are safe and secure, thanks only to the Mauryan Army standing vigil with naked swords and eyes peeled for action, day and night, in weather fair and foul, all eight praharas (round the clock), quite unmindful of personal discomfort and hardship, all through the year, year after year.

To this man, O Rajadhiraja, you owe a debt: please, therefore, see to it, suo motu, that the soldier continuously gets his dues in every form and respect, be they his needs or his wants, for he is not likely to ask for them himself.

The day the soldier has to demand his dues will be a sad day for Magadha; for then, on that day, you will have lost all moral sanction to be King!"

Kautilya's sagely advice to Chandragupta on the Mauryan Soldier.

Anonymous said...

Hi Folks.
Battle of honour" is half won.
Govt has conceded that we all have been wronged deliberately.
We all must thank NDTV for putting our view point in correct perspective.
Hon'ble Virappa Moily on behalf of Govt has assured that things will be rectified on arrival of PM.
Put your champagne bottles in the chiller.
Long live Indian Armed Forces.

Anonymous said...

@desperate anonymous at 10.21 pm.
Know point banging your head against wall.Pop a sleeping pill and go off to sleep.
Your this cut and paste exercise will not change the truth.
Now go and look for shelter because Army Officers have learnt a lesson from the entire episode and will expose all your misdeeds in MES and GREF.

Rajax (also Raxas) said...

@ everyone

Yeah. The idea of getting the Babooze of S-24 and S-25 down to the earlier place (Grade Pay of subject to my formula) seems excellent. Even Mr Chids will be proud of it. Better still-it is implementable across the table and will save Chids his Chuddee. The Pay Commission had put the formula of Grade Pay being 40% of the highest pay in a Payband. Why not keep Grade Pay as 40% of the highest pay "actually being drawn" by the senior most batch in that particular payband. From what I have seen, the IAS never reach anywhere near the mid of their payband before being put into the next payband. By my silly calculations it will be something like Grade Pay of JTS= 3530 (4 Yrs) STS (4650) Upto 8 yrs. JAG (5550), SG (6040, STS (9170), Above STS (10100)and Cab Secy (10400). I have not been mean minded - mind you. I could have recommended 40% of the actual pay drawn on 01.01.96 to be his grade pay. Govt will have done justice, seen to have done justice and we as Services will be happy even with the lesser pay. Any takers. All you anonymouses. FATI. Galat logon se panga le rahe ho doston. Marne maarne ki baari ayegi to tum log rooge.

BTW the mischief was not done by the Pay Commission but the Babbooze after it. So each Pay Band should get an equal multiplication factor. 1.86 or whatever.Not 2.74 for PB 24. CHIRR - AWAAZ AAYI KYA.

HA HA DOSTON (ANONYMOUSEON). AB DEKHO KIS KI BLACK DIWALI HAI. HAMARI YA TUMHARI.

Anonymous said...

Mr.HARCHARANJIT SINGH,While implementing AVSC recommendations, Govt. did not downgrade the pay or status.It only reduced the total service to become Lt.Col. I hope you will not come out with some other letter prepared by some Babu, which is not implemented, indicating down grading Lt.Col status and pay post AVSC implementation. You may see the comments on the letter mentioned by you in an earlier post

Anonymous said...

Have really tracked him down to HARCHARANJIT , lets find other details & expose him to NDTV ...of course other treatment can be also can be given to him

Navdeep/Maj Navdeep Singh/Capt Navdeep Singh said...

@Anonymous @ 10.21

It would not serve your purpose by cutting and pasting the notification time and again in various posts.

The said not'n dated 12-2-07 is only for the limited purpose of defining competent authorities for discip action under the Army Act and NOT for equivalence. It is said so in the notification itself. Please do not try to mislead.

Readers may go through Section 4 of the Army Act - this notification is purely meant for that purpose and not for equation.

Anonymous said...

Dear Anonymous on Sep 28 1021PM.

Do you think the whole polity and a large number of senior officers serving and retired are fools to ask for parity? I would say it is you who needs to get a grip on reality. Why I say this is because you have posted a corrigendum which clearly states that it is applicable to certain MOD notification for the purpose of Army Act 1950.

Now what part of this clearly laid out line you do not understand. If it was meant for parity it would have read corrigendum to warrant of precedence, which it is not.It will help you infinitely if you can pull yourself out of your stupor and see things as they should be and not live in a false reality.

bill said...

Refer NDTV debate of 28/9.All said & done this sordid issue has pushed the MORALE of ALL RANKS of the Armed Forces into their boots.It has also caused irreversible hatred between Armed Forces ALL personals & IAS Babus with consequent functional problems,already becoming evident.Demoralisation & disgruntlement in armed forces,with resultant operational degradation, would give tremendous strategic advantages to our adverseries, which they had been trying to achieve,unsucessfully, for the past so many years.Since all this has happened in a deliberately planned manner,involvement of Foriegn Hand, through the Babus associated with all this, in engineering it is becoming evident. This ( incl ISI linkages)needs to be thoroughly investigated,particularly the role of woman Babu secy now in FM who is believed to have done major manipulations & has publically voiced her anti Armed Forces stance.Mil int could do also conduct indep inquiry of this.In the meantime the Chief's must initiate appropriate steps to counter the present demoralisation quickly.

S RASTOGI said...

RAW DEAL TO MEDICAL DOCTORS OF ARMED FORCES MEDICAL SERVICES:-MED DOCTORS IN CHS AND CGHS HAVE BEEN GRANTED DYNAMIC ACP SCHEME EXTENDED UPTO SENIOR ADMINSTRATIVE GRADE(GRADE PAY OF RS10000 IN PB-4)FOR THOSE HAVING 20YEARS OF REGULAR SERVICE. ALSO ALL MED DOCTORS IN ORGANISED SERVICES OR HOLDING ISOLATED POSTS ARE COVERED BY DACP.(PARA 12 OFMINISTRY OF FINANCE,DEPT OF EXPENDITURE RESOLUTION NO1/1/2008-IC DATED 29AUG2008) MED DOCTORS OF AFMS CAN ONLY REACH THE RANK OF 'LT COL' IN 20 YRS SERVICE WHICH IS IN PB-3 WITH GRADE PAY OF RS7600 ONLY AS PER THE RECCOMENDATIONS OF THE 6TH PAY COMMISSION.MED DOCTORS OF THE DEFENCE FORCES WORK UNDER SEVERE CONDITIONS OF SAICHEN GLACIER , HIGH ALTITUDE LOCATIONS,CI OPERATIONS ETC AS COMPARED TO THE CIVILIAN COUNTERPARTS.HTIS HAS LED TO A SEVERE LOWERING OF MORALE IN THE MILITARY DOCTORS AND MOST ARE PLANNING TO LEAVE FOR THE WELL PAID PRIVATE SECTOR.THIS GROSS ANOMALY CAN BE CROSSCHECKED BY YOUR SUPPORT STAFF AND BE PUT UP TO THE COMMITTEE OF MINISTERS GOM. S RASTOGI

Anonymous said...

@anonymous 10:21 PM
Dear Mr MES. After having executed your cut and paste job regarding some content which ,it is evident, even you have not understood, why are you getting into these bouts of literal diarrhoea again and again. It has amply been made clear to you that what you are desperately trying to establish is not true and you are, in the process making a fool of yourself. So take my advice, read and understand properly before you throw up again on this blog . Jai Hind.

Rohit said...

What seems to be emerging is that the govt does not actually want to equate Lt Cols to directors and the disparity was deliberately created.

We may blame the bureaucracy, but the political leadership is frustratingly slow to respond even after unprecidented but welcome steps by the chiefs.

Would sanity not dictate that an officer, at least a graduate with minimum a first class degree and who has put in 16 odd years of the prime of his life in the service of the nation, not counting a 2-4 yrs training, should deserve a basic of Rs 40,000 or so.

And that too, in a period of time, where the armed forces are facing officers' shortage. The Market economy dictates enhanced pay for Lt Cols.

A goverment of a trillion dollar economy would not normally baulk for a few hundred crores, except if it finds some advantage in stoking the fire.

I would definitely like to believe that the cabinet ministers are highly intelligent and competent decision makers, who would not be easily misled by the babus.

So, what is cooking here? and who holds the stirrer?

Anonymous said...

Equal work equal pay fundamental right inshrined in the constitition. Now read the para 2.14 page 16 of the 12th Report on Review of Medical Services and Education in the Defence Sector was presented to Lok Sabha on 02 August 2006 and para 70 on the action taken report of the said report. Both are available on LOKSABHA website. Then calculate the pay of the medical officer of armed forces and CGHS. Govt should be ashamed of herself of murdering the fundamental wright of 5440 doctors of armed forces.

Anonymous said...

Equal work equal pay fundamental right inshrined in the constitition. Now read the para 2.14 page 16 of the 12th Report on Review of Medical Services and Education in the Defence Sector was presented to Lok Sabha on 02 August 2006 and para 70 on the action taken report of the said report. Both are available on LOKSABHA website. Then calculate the pay of the medical officer of armed forces and CGHS. Govt should be ashamed of herself of murdering the fundamental wright of 5440 doctors of armed forces

Anonymous said...

dear anonymous 30 sep 2008 4.11pm,

same logic applies to civilian engineer officers of MES who after physical service of more than 20 years are stagnating at Jt. Dir level in PB 3 DRAWING total salary of 44300/- whereas a counterpart service officer of 20 years service in MES is Col. and drawing salary of 65000/- + 6000/- MSP + FREE RATION + FREE ACOMODATION + FREE ELECTRICITY + 90 DAYS Annual leave for the same work as that by civilian officer. Should the Principle of same work same pay shall not be applied in MES?.

Anonymous said...

Dear Commentators,Pl update yourself about the existing equivalence in R&AW:

No A-162/2/80-DOII
GOVERNMENT OF INDIA
CABINET SECRETARIAT

BIKANER HOUSE(ANNEXE)
SHAHJAHAN ROAD
NEW DELHI-11

11 Jan 1991

TO,
Shri Gautam Darooah
Joint Secretary
Cabinet Secretariat
New Delhi
Sub:Grant of Deputation allowance to Armed Forces officers and Personnel on Deputation to R&AW,ARC and SSD under Cabinet secretariat
Sir,
1. I am directed to refer to this secretariat’s letter of even number Dt 16.5.90 addressed to Shri R Swaminathan , the then Principle Director, DG(Security)Cabinet ,on the above subject and to convey the sanction of the President that the period of deputation of Armed forces officers and Personnel to R&AW and DG(S) under Cabinet Secretariat shall be three years subject to the terms and conditions stipulated in the aforesaid letter. However , the normal tenure of three years shall be extendable by another two years .In such cases or further after a scrutiny by a committee of secretaries provided it is intended to absorb the officer in these organizations viz R&AW and DG(S).

2. Further ,for the purpose of this sectt’s above sited letter the rank equivalence of the Defence service officers on deputation to R&AW will be as follows:-

(i)Major/Lt Col -under Secretary
(ii)Colonel -Deputy Secretary
(iii)Brigadier -Director
(iv)Major General-Joint Secretary

3. These orders will take effect from the date of issue of this letter.

4. This issues with concurrence of Integrated Finance vide their Dy No 3/Dir F (S-1) dated 1.1.1991

Yours faithfully

Sd xxxxxxxx
(A Nath)
Director(SR)

Copy to:
1.Principle Director DG(S)
2.Director ARC
3.Director SSD

Kapil..fan said...

Please tell me in which pay band is Kapil Dev ..... is he happy with PB 3 or he would like to be moved to PB 4 ....... Kapil please reply