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Wednesday, September 3, 2008

Have faith !!!

Have faith !!!

This Editorial by Indian Express today was plain disgusting and perhaps planted, but let’s not ascribe too much importance to it.

Our Chiefs are respectable men of honour and if they have expressed reservations about the award of the Pay Commission, it is something that is expected in a democracy, in a system based on strong foundations. What was wrong in putting across a view on the implementation of the Pay Commission ? Nothing I would say !

Contrary to the views of some visitors on this blog, this blogger does NOT personally feel that all is wrong with the govt, or that the top brass is not interested in the welfare of the junior ranks, or that the bureaucracy is the root of all evil in this case. There have been goof ups and mistakes are bound to happen in every structure, but we should fight it with logic and not rhetoric. And that is precisely why I am amazed at the editorial. The write up wants to make us believe that the services’ take on equivalence with civil ranks is all hogwash and that the Pay Commission had come up with a rational one on equivalence and that it is a big deal that the Chiefs have expressed reservations. If they do not, who does ?

The Chiefs, or for that matter anyone in uniform in the top echelons, have always put forth their views in a dignified manner and I’m sure the Raksha Mantri would do his best to address the problem which is quite humungous. Notwithstanding what Indian Express says or what the Order of Precedence prescribes, let us have the hard facts – the fact that a Lt Col was getting Rs 1500 per month more than his nearest civil counterpart on 1-1-2006 and now after the Pay Commission, the civil counterpart would bypass the same Lt Col by more than Rs 14000 per month, can this be ignored ? And can we ignore the difference of collected arrears from 1-1-2006 till 1-9-2008 based on this ?

Some comments on some posts on this blog seem to repeat again and again how certain other services are ‘looting’ the system or that how the Army alone is proving to be the saviour of the nation. I beg to differ. Every service is like a cog in the system with a set role to perform, we all have a part to play, so bringing down each other won’t do any good, cribbing won’t help, abusive tendencies won’t take us anywhere. If we have to convince the powers that be, we surely have to take the support of logic and nothing else, and that, rest assured, shall happen. Anomalies happen not just in the forces but in other services too. I’ll give you an example. A pre-2006 Civil Pensioner who was receiving a basic pension of Rs 12,999 as on 31-12-2005 would now receive a basic pension of Rs 29,379 whereas a pensioner who was receiving Rs 13,000, that is, a rupee more, would now receive a basic pension of Rs 40,000. So the difference of one rupee has turned into a difference of eleven thousand in just one day !!!

I’m in a Catch – 22, situation that is :-) . When I say something in favour of the system, I’m branded as a ‘mouthpiece of the govt’, and when I beg to differ from the establishment, I hear something else, but that my friends is the beauty of the net and freedom of speech and expression. For all the problems related to the Sixth Pay Commission, I would just say, let's point them out with civility & logic, not rhetoric – relax and have faith, there are people up there wanting to fix them !!



Anonymous said...

A very mature and well balanced approach. Keep up the good work.

Anonymous said...

For the purpose of anomalies, pay drawn by a junior or senior in to be considered in the same cadre and not among cadres. For this purpose we have to see that a colonel was taking just 3-4 thousands more than a Lt Col prior to SPC and now he will be taking 20 thousands more.This is not a pay anomaly but anomaly of huge pay difference though a rank senior only.We should fight for a berth in PB4

Anonymous said...

I am sure that our seniors are men of morals and courage. They are doing every thing right in their powers to set the anamolies straight. I feel that this is more of a goof up than some foul play at some level. I am sure that it will get addressed very shortly.
Have Faith and Smile.

Anonymous said...

Dear Navdeep,
I fully agree with your approach but with a word of caution.There is NO scope for complacency in the name of decency.Too much is at stake and what has been done either deliberately or inadvertetly is just not acceptable.The system is exploiting our constraints and restrains.I on behalf of all junior offrs(thats what we have been reduced to, even after putting in 20 years of dedicated service)request you not to lower the pitch of our protest.Even the mother does not feeds the child till he cries.We have nothing to loose but we must not compromise our self respect,dignity and our due place in the society.We are not men from Mars,we are also the citizen of this Nation.I through this blog(of course with your consent)request all brother officers to go in depth of what has been done to us and evolve and innovate ways and means to make ourselves heard.I am sure we shall overcome this and our future genrations will acknowledge our efforts.With these words i am signing off from the blog till we hear something positive.AMEN.

Anonymous said...

Hi all.. Jus got a buzz that Govt has agreed PB4 for Lt Cols more than 14 yaers of service....
ANY COnfirmation Please???


Anonymous said...

All said and done the Govt strives to rectify matters always.Only in the process there are some abberations which crops in and which need to be addresed expeditiously.as one of our bretheren commented there is no time for complacency. the issue has to be taken up till resolved else it will get lost in the labrynth of beauraucracy.
The spc has definetely done a great job in trying to bring in a sense of equity and justice. one simple example is the doing away with the requirment of 33 years service for full entitled pension.Another is the one giving those above 80 years additional pension.Atleast now delinquent children will look after their aged parents hopefully better.
also there are so many issues resolved.
So definetly there is still hope.

Anonymous said...




Anonymous said...

they r using media to suppress the injustice...if everyone in this nation even now the state govt officers as state govt r accepting 6th cpc.will get 6th cpc pay then imagin the implication..where lt col and major will stand

Anonymous said...

Check out this folks, look out for what finance ministry officials are saying. Follow the link below. They are saying that lt col is getting 6000 more than the equivalent rank, which is deputy secretary of course you are getting an MSP, whereas dep sec does not get one. How about the equivalence factor based on basic and rank pay


Anonymous said...


There are certain provisions of the SPC for which no notification has been issued. Some of the issues which come to my mind are as follows:

1. Provision of LTC for dependent parents.

2. Disability pension for people going on voluntary retirement without waiting to complete their entire service.

Anonymous said...

@ Navdeep
one more discrepency in Major and LtCol ranks… have you taken note of it??? the basic pay of these ranks that we are getting to see from comparision charts or from calculation is not going to remain same for persons getting promoted to these ranks after 01 Jan 06. e.g. when you would become LtCol your basic pay will be less than what is shown on chart for pay fixation of present LtCol... A continious degradation is there in offing for these ranks…

Rahul said...

what about air travel auth?? where is the relevant auth in the resolution/notification?

Anonymous said...

Press prints what is fed to them,except a few who prefer to be judgemental by writing editorials without giving the other party a chance to put across their point.(Yes I am refering to Gupta ji's editorial in Indian Express).I have a suggetion,why not call all press reps to Army HQ and brief them regarding our observations to the 6CPC,Do we need to take permission from these BABUS for the press briefings also,if yes then we are doomed.

Anonymous said...

When is the hike finally coming, its been 32 months now

Anonymous said...

Dear Sir,
I am rather pained at the insensitivity of your editorial. Distilling our grouses against the continuous decline in our status to "obsessing over points of order and precedence" is unfair and glossing over reality. It seems you are oblivious to the manner of functioning of the armed forces with the civil services. If we were to be only responsible for the external defence of the country we would be confined to our cantonments and be least concerned with how the civil servants keep upgrading themselves. The reality is that we have to function alongwith them on a day to day basis. Be it maintenance of law and order, counter terrorism operations and aid during disasters. I will give you three instances:

In 1969, our regiment was deployed in Ahmedabad during the communal riots. A Superintendent Police (SP) was attached to us as a liason officer. He was wearing a major's badges of rank.. My CO who was a Lt Col had 20 yrs service while I as a major, his No 2, had over 16 years. The SP was very respectful to us both. However, a week or so later he came wearing Lt Col's badges. We congratulated him and asked him over for a drink in the evening. He however shied away saying that it was hardly worth a celebration as orders had come that all officers with more than 10 yrs service can wear a Lt Col's badges, without any effect on his salary. But he continued giving due deference to those senior in service to him.

In 1974, I was posted back to Ahmedabad as a Lt Col, in the Division HQ. We were called again to tackle law and order during the Nav Nirman agitation led by Mr Jaiprakash Narayan. We had a Brigadier attached to the Police Commissioner.. The latter, though he wore the badges of a Brig was drawing less pay than a Colonel. Let that pass. But Deputy Commissioners (DC) wearing the badges of Lt Col were attached to each sector, looked after by a CO of an infantry battalion. Once there was a problem in one sector and the DC promptly informed the CO about it. The CO told the DC to hold the situation with his police till he arrived with his troops. When the CO reached the spot he found that the DC had not moved from his temporary office and taken no action. CO lost his temper and ticked him of rather strongly. That evening at the Sector Commanders conference the DC raised the issue that the CO had been rude to him, even though they were of the same rank! The Brigadier, who used to preside over these meetings clarified to him that though they may be wearing the same rank, the CO was senior and had the right to tick him off for dereliction of duty. Imagine the situation at present in Ahmedabad. The Commissioner Police wears a Lt Gen's badges, a rank not worn by an army officer in the whole of Gujarat. In 1974 IG Police Gujarat wore the same badges as my Division Commander ie., a Maj Gen's. Then the IGP used to come to our HQ. Now not even the DC comes to the office, leave alone the Gujarat DGP!

In Aug 1972, HQ Southern Command was busy pulling out of Pak territory occupied by it during the 1971 war. We were occupying the PWD Rest House in Barmer, Rajasthan where we had set up a camp Command HQ. We suddenly got a notice from the local Deputy Commissioner that we should vacate the Rest House immediately. The AQMG of the Command HQ, a Lt Col, was sent to tell the DC that we hoped to vacate it in another fortnight. The DC agreed, but pointedly asked him that why couldn't the Army send a more senior officer to discuss the matter with him. Imagine the DC had 9 yrs service while the the Lt Col had 21 yrs to his credit. Problem was that the Rajasthan Govt had unilaterally issued a notification that a DC will henceforth be senior to a Brig. During the war not only the DC but the Chief Secy used to wait to meet the staff at the Command HQ in Barmer. As soon as the war was over they started to lord over us as though they had won the war for the nation.

The media, politicians and civil servants must realise that when they mess up things, only the armed forces come to their help. In other countries the Services are not bothered by the Govt to pull their chestnuts out of the fire and so seniority and precedence do not matter. In India, during the time of the British, the Services (specially the Army) were integrated in the total Govt hierarchy due to close functioning between the civil and armed forces. The Police was considered a subordinate service of the Army as the latter used to send its physically unfit officers to it. Irony is that even though half the Army is totally committed in aid of civil authority, it has to fight to maintain its equivalence, superiority be damned. Till date the SP in the UK wears the badges of rank of a Capt, same as in India till the 1950s. But now capt to Lt Col badges are only for promotees from Inspectors. The IPS officers wear them only fleetingly.

The country is heaping humiliations on the Services as a reward for their loyalty and efficiency. Beware, the last straw on the camels back may soon come. If God forbid something happens, remember you were warned.

Lt Gen SK Bahri (Retd)
Vox Popli: Rebuttal on Behalf of all Concerned Veterans

Anonymous said...

please can anyone clarify that if,
rank pay is part of BP then the major should get a grade pay of 7600.
is it being also considered

Anonymous said...

i feel the Government should think of outsourcing these kind of jobs to specialists like Mckinsey and Hewitt etc who will cetrtainly not be biased.

Whatever people may say IAS will have a stronghold till the politicians are what they are.They will look after the interests of their own clan and this time the highest level has looked after their retired too...para 4.2 of the pension resolution is a case in popint that only one lot of people will have a minimum pension of 50 percent of the revised scales .... why not all pensioners and these are the ones in the highest bracket

Anonymous said...

Having faith is becoming a bit difficult. A scientist E working under me in DRDO who was my junior has suddenly become my boss overnight.Similar is the case elsewhere. Afraid to think of what must be the plight of Officers in field vis-a-vis CPMFs etc.A DG (Printing & Stationary) in central Gov drawing more pay & enjoying better status than a Lt Gen. God save the country.

Anonymous said...

This morning I heard Alaska Governor Sarah Palin accepting the VP nomination of her party. A major portion of her speech was around a certain (then LtCdr) John McCain, a naval pilot whose plane was shot down in Vietnam. How he went through torture as a POW for 5 years but kept his mouth shut, all for the sake of his country. And now his country is repaying the debt they owe him by making him the Presidential candidate. It's worth noting that no other quality of Senator McCain was considered worth mentioning, for it would pale in comparison to his courage of standing his ground while being tortured for years. And here? The difference could not have been more contrasting. Some papers, not to forget a certain MES guy on this blog, miss no opportunity to put the Armed Forces down. Well, good luck to them - for a weak and frustrated mind cannot stop chatter. This mishmash cobbled together against us shall get it's deserved due, for in time a rotten branch falls off by itself. I salute our Chiefs for their energetic action and displaying leadership of the highest order. Imagine the electrifying effect on all LtCol's and equivalents of the Armed Forces if PB-4 comes through. On a lighter note, the Chiefs super-tough bonding on this issue tempts one (mistakenly) to almost believe that they are batch-mates from NDA!

Anonymous said...

Excellent piece of information and healthy debate. Keep up the good work,

Anonymous said...



Armed forces top brass waiting for anomalies to go

Special Correspondent

NEW DELHI: A day after the government notified the revised pay scale for armed forces officers, their top brass are understood to have conveyed their unwillingness to implement the Sixth Pay Commission report until anomalies are removed and the status of downdgraded ranks is restored.

Crux of the problem

For the past two days, faced with resentment by middle and senior level officers, top officials from the three services have been closeted with Defence Ministry officials to explain the downgrading of the status of colonels and brigadiers. However, they appreciate the new pay scales for personnel below officer rank (PBOR) as well as aspects such as full pension on completion of 20 years of service for officers and 15 years for PBORs. Their unwillingness to implement the pay panel’s recommendations revolves round the case of Colonels and Brigadiers and their equivalent in the navy and the air force.

Sources said the Fifth Pay Commission recommended pay received by a Lieutenant Colonel on the bottom of the scale as on January 1, 2006 was about Rs. 28,000 compared to Rs. 26,500 for a civil Non-Functional Selection Grade (NFSG) officer. But according to the Sixth Pay Commission, a Lt. Col. would receive Rs. 31,500 as against Rs. 45,000 for an NFSG officer at the bottom of the scale. The NFSG officers who were drawing a pay lesser than Lt. Colonels are now in Pay Band 4, while Lt. Colonels remain in Pay Band 3. The NFSG officers on the civil side include superintending engineers of the Central Engineering Services, the Directors of the government of India, commandants in Central police organisations, Additional Commissioners of Income Tax and scientists ‘E’ of the Central Scientific Departments.

The sources said Defence Minister A.K. Antony gave the assurance that he would take up the anomalies with the government and attempt to get them removed.

It was on his initiative that the government had set up a high level Pay Commission review panel to look into the grievances of the armed forces.

While some benefits did accrue to the officers and PBORs, the notification left colonels and brigadiers and their equivalents, considered the backbone of the armed forces’ officer cadre, dissatisfied

Anonymous said...

The PM of this country is from civil Services

Abhinav Choudhary said...

Hey the Zee article talks about an example...
In the pay fixation they talk abt the fact that on 01 Jan 06 the MSP will be added and then you multiply with 1.86....

here is the example...its sourced as a finance ministry reply

Home > Nation

`No injustice` to armed forces in Pay Panel report: Fin Min

New Delhi, Sep 03: Despite reservations of defence personnel to the government notified 6th Central Pay Commission (CPC) report over "disparities", the Finance Ministry on Wednesday virtually dashed their hopes, strongly denying any "injustice" to the armed forces in the new pay structure.

"In no way are the defence personnel getting any lesser pay than their civilian counterparts. In fact, they will carry home fatter pay packets than civilian services and paramilitary under the new salary structures of the CPC," top Finance Ministry officials said in New Delhi.

Citing the new feature of Military Service Pay (MSP) in the CPC, officials said armed forces officers would uniformly get Rs 6,000 more, whereas such a pay was not offered to the civilians and the paramilitary.

"Under the 5th CPC there was no compensation provided for the risk factor involved in the defence personnel's job profile. MSP has taken care of that lacuna in the 6th CPC," they said.

Also, the MSP would be counted along with the Basic Pay of Armed Forces officers for calculating the Dearness Allowance (DA). "That would provide them with Rs 960 DA and the amount would increase as the DA is hiked," they added.

Additionally, defence officers posted in Siachen would get an allowance of Rs 14,000 and an High Altitude Allowance of Rs 8,000, which adds up to a total of Rs 22,000.

Under the 5th CPC, defence personnel were getting only Rs 7,000 as Siachen Allowance and R 4,000 as High Altitude Allowance, adding upto Rs 11,000.

"If the total pay package was considered for comparison between the defence personnel and the civilians, the former would take home a much higher pay cheque at the end of each month," Finance Ministry officials said.

Giving the example of entry level defence officers in the rank of Lieutenants and equivalent in Navy and Air Force, officials said under the 5th Pay Commission in the pay scale of Rs 8,250-10,500, they received a salary totalling Rs 15,252 as on December 31, 2005.

"On January 1, 2006, from when the 6th CPC would be effective, a Lieutenant under the Pay Band-3 will receive an additional Grade Pay of Rs 5,400 and MSP of Rs 6,000, making his or her total emoluments Rs 27,000.

As on September 1, 2008, when the 6th CPC was implemented, a Lieutenant would get total emoluments of Rs 28, 947," officials said.

Whereas, their civilian counterparts in the pay scale of Rs 8,000-13,500 under 5th CPC, received a pay of Rs 14,880.

Under the 6th CPC's Pay Band-3, the Lieutenant's counterpart (Junior Time Scale) would receive a Grade Pay of Rs 5,400 and a Gross Pay, as on January 1, 2006, of Rs 21,000.

From September 1, 2008, the civilian officers would receive emoluments totalling Rs 22,947 only, officials said.

A Lieutenant Colonel under the 5th CPC received a Gross Pay of Rs 28,086. But under the 6th CPC, he would receive a Grade Pay of Rs 7,600 and MSP of Rs 6,000 under Pay Band-3.

His pay as on January 1, 2006, from when 6th CPC is effective, would be Rs 41,690. From September 1, 2008, when 6th CPC was implemented, a Lt Colonels emoluments stood at Rs 45,000, officials said.


1. Lt Col is equated with a Gde Pay of 7600.

2. And no Arrears of MSP...? then how come they added it on 01 Jan when it was effective(and not implemented-note he talks abt"effective" and "implemented")???

Anonymous said...

should 'unwillingness ' be treated as 'refusal' , if that so only then we can expect some favourable outcome

Anonymous said...

Two letters written by Lt. Gen. (Rtd) Oberoi to the Editor, Indian Express, Delhi are reproduced below with the hope that a lot of viewers will get access to this opinion.
Letter No.1 for publication on September 2, 2008. Not yet published.
- Stick to Your Guns

Lt Gen Vijay Oberoi
The chiefs of the army, navy and air force need to be commended and congratulated for their upright and bold stand for the men and women under their command, as reported on the front page of The Indian Express of September 02, 2008. The chiefs have represented strongly against the glaring disparities between military and civilian officers of equal rank and service, as listed in the notification relating to the implementation of the sixth pay commission (6 CPC) recommendations, issued after cabinet approval. This is as should be, for emoluments and status, especially the latter; affect morale, which is one of the immutable principles of war, followed not just by the Indian military, but all militaries of the world.
Since 2006, when the 6 CPC was in the offing, the chiefs had requested the government to ensure that the commission when set up should have representation from the defence forces. Despite making polite noises, the political leadership did not accede to this legitimate and logical request. When the setting up of the commission was formally announced, the chiefs went back to the government and again asked it to ensure representation, even in the shape of an advisor, if not a member in the commission. That this was a legitimate demand is amply borne out by the numbers involved. More than one third of government employees, under the purview of the commission, comprise serving military personnel. The percentage of military veterans, who also fell under the commission’s purview for deciding their pensions and related emoluments, was even more at nearly 25 lacs. Once again, the request was ignored.
When the pay commission submitted its report in March this year, there was an understandable uproar from serving personnel and military veterans alike. The government then set up a review committee under the cabinet secretary, but again without representation from the military. Why this ‘apartheid’ against the only organization that delivers and does so efficiently and effectively? The obvious reason, well established amongst the serving personnel as well as the military veterans, was appeasement of the bureaucracy by the political leadership, especially those from the IAS, who were loath to have a representative from the services, lest their plans of accumulating everything for themselves were foiled. That is how the bureaucracy works in our democratic country – everything for themselves!
What the chief’s are objecting to and rightly, is the lowering of the status of defence officers’ vis-à-vis their civilian counterparts. The IAS has, unfortunately, tried very hard since Independence and also succeeded to a great degree, in the lowering of the status of the service officers. They did so by making themselves indispensable to the political leadership and even being identified with politicians and political parties unashamedly. The politicians found this an ideal arrangement to further their activities for perpetuating their individual causes as also those of the party they belonged to. This is possibly the main reason for the deterioration of governance everywhere and corruption reaching stupendous proportions. In the bargain, the ‘aam aadmi’ remained ‘aam’, whereas both the politicians and the bureaucrats continued to become ‘khas’ in every respect! How unfortunate that democracy in our country has reached this rock bottom?
No doubt there were and are some political leaders who are above this self-perpetuating syndrome, but alas not enough to matter. As for honest, diligent and efficient bureaucrats, they disappeared many decades back, leaving the field wide open for clever and self-serving ones, whose dharma is to exploit and loot both individuals and the nation. I am sorry I have digressed from the main theme of this piece, but unless such activities are publicly exposed in and by the media, how will the nation know the truth?
Reverting to the reason for this piece, I would urge the service chiefs to stick to their guns and not waver in their determination to get a fair deal for their men. The essence of command of troops is well known to them; otherwise they would not be chiefs of their service today. It is once again their dharma to ensure that they lead highly motivated troops, for then alone will victory be achieved on the battlefield and for making our nation safe and secure. The serving as well as retired military personnel, but more importantly the nation, looks up to you to not let the security of the nation be frittered away because some civil officials want to have their cake and eat it too!
The author is a former Vice Chief of Army Staff (VCOAS) and resident of The War Wounded Foundation.
Letter No.2 sent when the first letter was not published.
Dear All,
You must all be aware of the front page headlines published in the Indian Express of 02 Sep 08, relating to the three Chief’s objecting to some aspects of the cabinet cleared proposal on the pay commission recommendations. After reading it I had prepared an article and sent it to the Editor of the Indian Express. The piece is enclosed as an attachment. I had initially not planned to make it public till it was published, but I have my doubts if it will be published. Hence the change of heart.
The editorial in The Indian Express of 03 September 08 further reinforces my thinking. I have since sent a Letter to the Editor, a copy of which is appended below.
Dear Editor,
All the respect I had for your newspaper, with “Journalism of Courage”prominently featured at your masthead, vanished when I read the puerile Editorial titled”It’s the Uniform…..”in your edition dated September 03, 2008. The shock was greater when it followed the front page headline story on the same subject you broke only the day before. Did the bureaucrats get the editor in question in the interim or did he not consult the news editor? I cannot think of any other plausible reason as I am aware that your editors are usually well read and understand nuances of important news.
Are you really serious when you say that the military’s complaint regarding being deliberately downgraded is ’spurious’? It is obvious that the worthy editor has no idea about the military and how important status is for them.Neither it seems he is aware of what the military’s stand has been all these months. Throughout the sordid episode generated by the injudicious recommendations of the pay commission over the last six months, the military has not asked for enhancement of pay, only parity at levels that have existed hitherto. Therefore,for the editor to pass scurrilous comments on the officers of the defence forces and particularly against the service chiefs, is not only downright unfair but is an attack on their sacred uniform.
When the next war comes by, though no soldier wants one, the same editor will no doubt be singing paeans for the military, but perhaps it is fashionable to do down the military when peace prevails, not because of IAS and IPS worthies, whom he seems to worship, but because of the same military which he has attacked with his pen or is it the cursor on his lap top today?
Lt GenVijay Oberoi
Now that the Chief’s have taken up the case, we need to support them. Will the leaders of various organisations, movements etc consider organising support? There are many ways; the least that can be done is to send press releases supporting their move. There are other possibilities too, including organising events.
Vijay Oberoi

shiv said...

Can somebody explain the rationale behind working out the parity. How does the Lt Col get equated to Dy Secy, whatis the basis for such equivalance?

Anonymous said...

it was major and dy secy who were at parity...til 6th cpc was not out

Anonymous said...

One thought the service Chiefs had more serious to do.

Anonymous said...

One thought the Service Chiefs had more serious things to do.

Anonymous said...

Reference two posts at 8.36&8.38pm.
Lost case.Pardon him and carry on with your fight for honour.

Anonymous said...

can somebody tell me what would be the civil equivalent to the military posts.

ragini said...


It appears that a few bureaucrats like Madhumita Sukul, Ajit Tarkey are all out to embarrass the Manmohan Singh government, because of rather silly mistakes in the implementation of the recommendations. Either the non-inclusion of Lt Col in PB-4 is a very silly mistake or a deliberate attempt to do what I have stated in the last sentence. Even a layman would cry foul over this kinda of a mistake/error.

Anonymous said...

Lets count backward from the top

COAS equiv Cabinet Secy
Army Commanders Secretary
Lt Generals Addl Secy
Maj Generals Jt Secy
Brigaders Director
Col ?
Lt Col Deputy Secy
Major Under Secy(SG)
Captain Under Secy
Lt. Group A entry

Anonymous said...

dear annony...

service chief r doing a very very serious job...i m sure u r not from armed forces that is y such a reaction...

Anonymous said...

daer annoy

could u please tell me the equivalent ranks as army wants to end the discussion.

Anonymous said...

there are no ranks in civil services...even in pmf and ploice...

only armed forces have ranks..

Anonymous said...


36 comments and how many have heeded what Navdeep has said in his blogpost. Let me repeat from there.

Some comments on some posts on this blog seem to repeat again and again how certain other services are ‘looting’ the system or that how the Army alone is proving to be the saviour of the nation. I beg to differ. Every service is like a cog in the system with a set role to perform, we all have a part to play, so bringing down each other won’t do any good, cribbing won’t help, abusive tendencies won’t take us anywhere. If we have to convince the powers that be, we surely have to take the support of logic and nothing else, and that, rest assured, shall happen. Anomalies happen not just in the forces but in other services too.

Please donot abuse and degrade Navdeep's forum with such intemperate language and reckless accusations. Anyone's got any logic to prove the facts of the case. Start from the IVth CPC, pay bands and rank pay and the compounding of problems in the Vth CPC. Then work it out as to how the services can reverse their own logic in the next pay commission.

We needs sharper brains, nor acidic tongues. Let Navdeep help us out logically to get the services out of this maze. It is not going to be easy, mind you.

Anonymous said...

With all these arguments taking place I would like to put forth a quote of Senator John McCain, quite a fighter and a maverick himself - 'In the end, it matters less that you can fight. What you fight for is the real test.' Well, we now have a barometer!

Anonymous said...

has the major's grade pay been revised to 7600

Unknown said...

i had already given very simple logic if you can understand

give answer to these questions

army officers are class one officer in indian government or not? yes

all class one officers with service of 12-14 years of indian govt are being put into pb4 after sixth pay commission ? yes

then why only army officers are being left.

only 25 percent (those who become col) after service of 21 years will be put into pb4

do you mean to that they class 2 officers
if yes just advertise it in papers

Anonymous said...

Answer to ur second query "all class one officers with service of 12-14 years of Indian govt are being put into pb4 after sixth pay commission ?" is an emphatic NO in capital letters. Except for a few coveted services like IAS/IFS (foreign), it takes anywhere between15 to 30 years to reach director level in pb4. Pl get ur facts right.

shiv said...

Lt Col are affected because the earlier scale starting at 13500 and increment of 400 was considered equivalent to a band starting at 12000 and increment of 375 by the SPC. The day the SPC report came out, enough noise should have been made ie in mar 08 itself.May be the services missed out the gravity of the situation then.

Anonymous said...

Some thought provoking lines i found while surfing

1. Defence Services Pay Cell recently gave a presentation to Cabinet Secretary on “Anomalies in VI Central Pay Commission Report”. The contents of the presentation prove that Faujis are busy in saying ‘Yes Sir” and their brains are definitely below their knees. Kalidas was spotted as the biggest fool in the ancient times as he was seen cutting the same tree branch on which he was sitting. Service officers also appear to be no different and keeping the great culture of this country
continuing by seriously damaging their status, “aan and shaan”, pay and allowances. They always ask for peanuts, perhaps they enjoy this with the two pegs of Rum. And finally when they get peanuts, they criticize Govt., the I.A.S. lobby for their woes. No wonder the SSBs select the most un(intelligent) officers for defence and the canteen facility of providing subsidized liquor further numbs their thinking power. Again no wonder, the successive pay commissions have always reduced the status, pay and allowances but never the facility of subsidized liquor. Do you
want to know the answer to the riddle? Then read below:-

2. Military Service Pay(MSP): In the presentation, surprisingly the hike
in MSP for officers has not been asked. A Lieutenant at the start of
payscale (Rs 15600+ Rs 5400 grade pay) will get a MSP of Rs 6000 which
works out to be 28% of the pay. A Brigadier at the top of payscale (Rs
39100+Rs 8400 grade pay) will also get the same MSP of Rs 6000 which
works out to be just 12%. Thus a defence officer while growing in rank
and service will be progressively getting lower and lower MSP. MSP is
supposed to cater to peculiar tough conditions of defence service. What
a logic! As commitments ( family, children and their education) of an
individuals increase in life, reduce his pay by giving him lesser and
lesser MSP. MSP should be not Rs 6000 for officers and Rs 3000 for PBORs. MSP should be 30% of total pay for all ranks of both officers and PBORs. Why leave
officers above Brigadier! O.K., give officers above Brig a MSP of 20%
since they get more perks and often sit in Headquarters/Air-Conditioned

3. Arrears of MSP Pay Commission has recommended Nil arrears for MSP
since it wll not be given from 1.1.2006 but will be given from the day
the Govt. accepts the recommendations. This is absurd. Were defence
officers not military officers on 1.1 2006? If they were military
officers, then the MSP arrears should be given from 1.1.2006.

4. Allowances: Services Pay Cell has asked for increasing the risk
allowances like Saichen, Flying, Submarine, Sea-giing, MARCOS etc. by
4.5 times and CI (Ops) by 5.5 times.. Why leave other allowances!
All defence service allowances (High Altitude, Gallantry, Technical Pay
etc.) should be increased by 5.5 times for both the officers and the


Have we forgotten what havoc the indisciplined engineers and the
technicians of the Air Force played when the flying pay was increased
from Rs 1200 to Rs 7000 and technical pay was just doubled from Rs 375
to Rs750? Do we want to again disturb and destroy the brotherhood among
different branches and their established relativities in the armed
forces by asking hike for only certain allowances for certain branches
only and ignoring others and the PBORs?
Clever Game Played by Pay Commission.

(a) All allowances will be paid prospectively i.e. from the date the
Govt. accepts the recommendations.
(b) As on 1.1.2008, on Basic Pay of Rs 100, Dearness Pay(DP) of Rs 50
and Dearness Allowance(DA) of Rs71 is given. Thus pay of Rs 100
recommended by the previous pay commission w.e.f. 1.1.1996 is today
equivalent to Rs 221. This has been done to cater to inflation.
(c) But Pay Commission has recommended all allowances to be doubled not
even 2.21 times. Thus Pay Commission has actually reduced all allowances
in real terms by almost 10%. Ever heard of a Pay Commission which
actually reduces the allowances of the employees! Thanks to our great
Prime Minister and Finance Minister who are both great Economists. And
thanks to the great justice done by (In)Justice B.N. Srikrishna. This
time you have done equal (in)justice to both the civilians as well as
the defence personnel. Now at least defence personnel should not crib
that they have been left out or ignored.

5. Grade Pay: The services pay cell has asked for enhancement of grade
pay of Lt Col from Rs 6600 to Rs7600. They should have asked for Rs 8300
grade pay for Lt Col. Why? The pay of Lt Col is Rs15100-400-18700. The
almost similar pay scale on the civil side is S-25 scale i.e. Rs
15100-400-18300 given to the IAS officers after 12-14 years of service
(including training period). Lt Col rank is also granted after 14 years
of service (including I year part of pre-commissioning training). The
officers in the S-25 payscale have been given grade pay of Rs 8300.
Therefore all Lt Cols should also be given Rs8300 as grade pay.
A Major has a payscale of Rs 12800-16050. The nearest equivalent
civilian payscale is S-22 i.e Rs 12750-16500. The civilians in this
payscale have been given grade pay of Rs 7500.. But Majors have been
given grade pay of Rs 6100. Services Pay Cell has asked for a grade pay
of Rs 6600 for the Majors. What a foolish thing! Majors should be given
a grade pay of Rs 7500 and not Rs6100.
How many young Majors and I.A.S officers died in the Kargil War? Who is
keeping India integrated? A young Major on the tiger hill or the babu
with big bloated stomach and paan in his dirty mouth while sitting in
the air conditioned office in New Delhi serving the equally filthy
minister? India should not be so ungrateful to young Majors. At least
grade pay of Rs 7500 instead of Rs 6100 can definitely be given.
Going by the similar logic, Grade Pay of Captain should be Rs 6100
instead of Rs5700. Services Pay Cell has asked accordingly. Thank God!
After the third pay commission the starting pay of Lieutenant was Rs 830
compared to Rs 700 for an I.A.S officer. After the fourth pay
commission, the starting pay of Rs 2500 was given to Lieutenant compared
to Rs2200 given to an I.A.S officer. This edge was negated by the fifth
pay commission by giving Rs 8250 as starting pay to Lieutenant compared
to Rs 8000 given to an I.A.S officer. The I.A.S officer after 1 year of
training got Rs 8275 whereas the Lieutenant got Rs 8250 after 1 year of

Keeping the edge in the starting pay of Lieutenant as accepted by the
Govt. in the past (III and IV Pay commission), the grade pay of Rs5400
given to the Lieutenant is absurd since the same grade pay has been
given to the civilians who are presently having starting payscale of Rs
8000. The grade pay of Lieutenant should be placed between Rs 5400 and
the next rate of grade pay i.e. Rs 6100. Thus Lieutenant should be given
grade pay of Rs 5700 and not Rs5400. How come the Services pay Cell has
not asked for enhancement of the grade pay of Lieutenants!
A Colonel has a payscale of Rs 17100-19350. The equivalent civilian
payscale is that of Rs16400-20000 i.e. S-26 scale. S-26 scale is given
to a D.I.G after 15 years of service. In Army, an officer picks up the
rank of Colonel after 18-26 years of service. The civilians in the S-26
payscale have been given grade pay of Rs 8400 whereas Colonels have been
given Rs 7600 as the grade pay. A grade pay of Rs 8400 instead of Rs7600
should be given to Colonels. Services pay cell has asked for grade pay
of Rs 8300 for Cols by some absurd logic.
A Brigadier has a payscale of Rs 19100-20450. There is no equivalent
payscale on the civilian side. The starting pay of Brigadier is more
than that of Joint Secretary who has a payscale of Rs18400-22400. The
Pay Commission has given Joint Secretary grade pay of of Rs 9000. Joint
Secretary rank is picked up by an I.A.S officer after 17 years of
service. Whereas a Brigadier rank is given in the Army after at least 27
years of services. Thus the grade pay of a Brigadier should be higher
than the grade pay of a joint Secretary. It should be between the grade
pays of Joint Secretary and next higher rank of Additional Secretary
(Grade pay of Rs 11000). Hence a Brigadier should be given grade pay of
Rs 10000 and not Rs 8400. But the Defence Services pay cell has asked
for grade pay of Rs 8900 only.

A Major General’s starting salary is fixed at minimum of Rs 19900,
Rs20400, Rs 20900 and Rs 21400 (after serving as Brigadier for 1,2,3,4
years respectively) in the payscale of Rs 18400-22400. A civilian
officer with starting pay of Rs 18400 has been given grade pay of Rs
9000 and so has been the Major General who has a higher starting pay as
well as much higher service of 33 years compared to a Joint Secretary
having just 17 years of service. Therefore grade pay of a Major General
should be fixed between that of Joint Secretary and Additional Secy and
also above that of a Brigadier. Hence a grade pay of Rs 10500 and not Rs
9000 should be given to a Major General. Surprisingly the Defence Pay
Cell has not asked for enhancement of the grade pay of a Major General.
Previous Pay Commissions upgraded DG’s of BSF, CRPF and of smaller
states to Rs 26000 (fixed) scale. This lowered the pay and status of Lt
Gens (except Army Commanders) who were left in the scale of
Rs22400-24500 only.. Many other civilian posts in the pay scale of Lt
Gen have been upgraded to the scale of Rs24050-26000 and given the grade
pay of Rs13000. But Lt Gens have been denied the grade pay of Rs 13000
and instead lowered in status by giving grade pay of just Rs11000. Hence
Lt Gens should also be given grade pay of Rs 13000.

6. The Ultimate Reality and the Gross injustice
As per para 3.3.12, page 174 of the Pay Commission report:
‘whenever any IAS officer of a particular batch is posted in the Centre
to a particular grade carrying a specific grade pay in pay bands PB-3 or
PB-4, grant of higher pay scale on non functional basis to the officers
belonging to batches of organised Group A services that are senior by
two years or more should be given by the Govt’
This means that if an I.A.S officer picks up a rank of Joint Secretary
at the Centre after 17 years of service, then all Group ‘A’ officers
posted at the Centre would be given the pay scale of a Joint Secretary
after 19 years.
Govt. of India has passed a notification early this year (2008)
according to which now an I.A.S officer can pick up the ranko Joint Secy
after 14 years.
Thus all Group’A’ officers posted at the Centre will get a PB-4 payscale
of Rs 39200-67000 + grade pay of Rs 11000 after 16 years.
However defence officers would continue to be in the PB-3 payscale of Rs
15600-39100 + max grade pay of Rs8400 till 32 years of service. 94 % of
officers will retire in this payscale since only 6% will pick up Major
General or higher ranks.
Logical Conclusion
All defence officers should be placed in the PB-4 pay scale of Rs
39200-67000 + grade pay of Rs 11000 at least after 14 years so as to
have parity with I.A.S and if not so, then at least after16 years of
service so as to have parity wth lesser cousions of the I.A.S i.e the
group’A’ services..

7. The Final Solution
If the above recommendations are not accepted, let Deepak Kapur and the
other two service chiefs resign. This will be a homage to the souls of
armed forces martyrs who sacrificed their lives for this country. Let
Deepak and his other two fellows resign for the honour and integrity of
the country, the great India.

8. The Great impending Danger
If the India gives peanuts to armed forces, soon the monkeys will infest
the services and the country’s zoos will be empty. No brave young men
will join defence services and country will once again be a slave for
future centuries.
Wake up country men whether you are civilians or faujis and save this
country from future slavery. Otherwise, you will repent later. Do not be
another Kalidas of Kalyug. Do not cut the armed forces the branch of the
tree , the great Mother India.

Anonymous said...

@ shiv
An interesting piece.I fail to understand why the rank pay is added while discussing/comparing the pay scales. If rank pay is to bae added and treated at par with basic pay why is it that the fifth pay commission/govt did reflect it as a separate /distinct component of total pay and not club it with the pay scales? Is not a scale carrying higher maximum senior to one with a lower maximum as per fifth pay comm. Also why r v not seeking grade pay of sag i.e Rs 10000 for Col & equivalent to b at par with IAS after 16-17 yrs of service. Can one expect some honest ans.

Anonymous said...

@ dear annony...

the rank pay was carved out of basic pay only..for keeping the officer of senior rank senior to an officer who had put in more service but has not being promoted to the next rank..so it was pure internal arrangement of army for deciding seniority...this dosent mean that rank pay is not part of basic pay ...if u want to verify this then read 4th pay report...this shuold satisfy ur anxity about rank pay..the problem is this time 6th cpc forgot this fact...UNFORTUNATELY..SO THEY NEED TO BE CORRECTED..

Anonymous said...

@ Dear Anony,

The case is not that simple. In IV CPC a common pay band for offrs upto Brig was there and to distinguish one rank from another concept of rank pay was introduced. That no longer is the case with V CPC where separate scales for each rank r available. Rank pay was simply to financially compensate service offrs (like MSP in VI CPC) for peculiar nature of their service conditions. By the way, carving out rank pay from basic pay was by no means pure internal arrangement of army for deciding seniority but a considered decision by the Govt on the recommendations of IV/V CPCs. I await comments on other pts like parity of Col with Jt Secy after 16-17 yrs of service.

shiv said...

The issue is not that simple. Whati understand is, The concept of rank pay has changed wit each pay commission. The services always considered it part of basic wheras nobody else did so, so th equestio nof parity always remained. THe SPC tried to resolve it once for all by inroducing grade pay for all,a good cocept. But the question now remains , which i had asked earlier- how does one draw parity. Parity is base don basic but for that one needs to equate levels and then decided pay and then parity. Some wise man should now sit down and draw up the equivalence base on , maybe educational qualifiaction at entry, job responsibility and years of service AND OPEN ANOTHER PANDORAS BOX.

Anonymous said...

Please read this ancient Indian wisdom and ponder over it-

Kautilya's sagely advice to Chandragupta on the Mauryan Soldier.

"Pataliputra rests each night in peaceful comfort, O King, secure in the belief that the distant borders of Magadha are inviolate and the interiors are safe and secure, thanks only to the Mauryan Army standing vigil with naked swords and eyes peeled for action, day and night, in weather fair and foul, all eight praharas (round the clock), quite unmindful of personal discomfort and hardship, all through the year, year after year.

To this man, O Rajadhiraja, you owe a debt: please, therefore, see to it, suo motu, that the soldier continuously gets his dues in every form and respect, be they his needs or his wants, for he is not likely to ask for them himself.

The day the soldier has to demand his dues will be a sad day for Magadha; for then, on that day, you will have lost all moral sanction to be King!"

Anonymous said...

@ shiv...

rank pay was very much a part of basic pay...it is govt not the services who considered it like that...there is a army order of govt of india...as u have CCS rules in civil which exists on it..it is only in 6th cpc they forgot it..

Anonymous said...

Various articles in various newspapers citing Senior (or otherwise)Finance Ministry officials have appeared over time after the announcement of the results of VIth Pay Commission. All have the same theme - "No anomaly, Military mistaken". This recurrent denial of bland facts leads one to the following conclusions -
1. Chances of getting the anomalies rectified by the finance ministry seems slim at the most, especially when the same negatively minded "Senior Finance Ministry Officials" who provide the leaks to the press are the same that are in charge of correcting the anomalies.
2. It reeks of a widely publicized (though subtle) PR campaign to counteract any Army pay hike while countering the efforts by a smear campaign against the forces portraying them as Greedy minded grubs.
Add to this the fact that the average MP/MLA gets his public inputs from newspapers, not blogs. And ministers, being the representatives of the public, will go by what the unbiased public newspapers report.
The overall picture doesnt seem rosy.

Anonymous said...

All one can hope at this juncture is that the Service Chiefs, by challanging the cabinet decision on scpc have not bitten more then they can possibly chew. To a common man Chiefs' actions are not very far off from being mutinous. Thank God Fernandes is not the RM.

Unknown said...

if fernendes had been the RM these babus would not have dare to illtreat army officers. did you forget it was him who ensured that the babus also visit siachen

Unknown said...

6 reasons why one choose to become an army officer

1. he hate to rest
2. he had already enjoyed his life in childhood.
3. he loves tension
4. he does not want to spend time with his family
5. he wants to take revenge from him self
6. he loves to work on Sundays and holidays

It is being circulated in public interest

Anonymous said...





BUT IT WAS REDUCED TO 13500+1600 = 15100.


ASK said...

Why arn't we getting MSP arears from 1.1.2006.If Grade Pay(which is also a "new componant")arears can be given from 1.1.06,there is ABSOLUTELY no reason to deny this for MSP.This is a clear case of DISCREMANATION & ANTI ARMED FORCES STANCE of ALL concerned(CPC,Review,Anomalies commitees etc).Just because the Babus are not getting MSP they have played this mischief with us.If necessary Armed
Forces HQ should collectively take Legal Recourse on behalf of ALL of us to get MSP arears w.e.f 1.1.06,

Anonymous said...

Despite recommending substantial pay hikes, the much awaited Sixth Central Pay Commission (CPC) Report has elicited strong reaction from some sections of the government. The strongest reaction has come from the Armed Forces, even though the Commission accepted their demand for a special Military Service Pay (MSP) and recommended their lateral absorption into the central paramilitary forces. Some have gone to the extent of recommending a separate Pay Commission for the Armed Forces.

The figures say it all: according to one report, only 172 cadets joined the National Defence Academy this year, against the stipulated strength of 300; and only 90 cadets joined the Indian Military Academy against a vacancy of 250 seats.

As the Indian Armed Forces have proved their professional mettle over six decades of India’s existence, it is essential to examine the recommendations of the pay commission and the grievances of the armed forces dispassionately.

Over the years, a perception has gained ground in the Armed Forces that their stature within the society has been eroded and their status has been lowered vis a vis their civilian counterparts by a number of subtle measures.

By the same author: Sethusamudram Project: A reality check

These have mainly consisted of numerous cadre reviews, which have created new grades at higher levels. As a result, from 1947 when the police force in the state of Uttar Pradesh was headed by an Inspector General, today it has over two dozen Director Generals (DG) and scores of Additional Director Generals(ADG).

Similarly in the bureaucracy newer ranks were created at the top which included Principal Secretary, Special secretary and even Cabinet Secretary. There has been upgradation all along and Superintendents of Police (SP) became Senior Superintendent of Police (SSP), the Secretaries became Principal Secretaries.

But the armed forces, to some extent due to their functional requirements, and to a greater extent due to their rigid mindset, failed to follow their civilian counterparts. Some half baked measures like upgrading the commanding officer of a battalion from a Lieutenant Colonel to Colonel were taken but as they were not backed up by faster promotions, they turned out to be counter productive.

The hierarchy conscious Armed Forces leadership simply failed to emulate their civilian counterparts, resulting in an overwhelming superiority of the bureaucracy especially the IAS.

According to a former Chief of the Naval Staff, the bureaucrats consider themselves superior to service officers by virtue of having passed a single examination, which most of the service officers never appeared for.

The Pay Commission did take some cognisance of the steep pyramidical structure of the armed forces, and to overcome the maladies of rather early supercession recommended an integrated pay scale for the armed forces, which is actually essential to prevent stagnation in the officer cadre. Strangely enough, the armed forces pay commission cells had never sought this.

The integrated pay scale demanded by the Armed Forces was granted to them exclusively by the Fourth Pay Commission, which took into account their peculiar service conditions. This ensured that an officer continued to get an increment even when he could not be promoted. Rank Pay was introduced to ensure that those promoted got a jump.

The Armed Forces had then asked for an integrated pay scale up to the rank of Major General, basically because in every other all India service promotion up to the rank of Joint Secretary is assured, while in the armed forces not even one per cent of officers reach that level. This, however, was not accepted, and an integrated pay scale up to the rank of Brigadier only was accorded. This met the aspirations of the armed forces only to some extent, as the feeling of stagnation was removed.

However, the all powerful IAS lobby was not satisfied by this arrangement as the seniority between officers of different cadre is decided on the basis of basic pay and with this scale of pay most of the defence officers managed to get somewhat respectable salaries at par with their civilian counterparts.

This arrangement was withdrawn, despite firm opposition by the three service chiefs, in the Fifth Pay Commission, where the IAS had managed to plant a member secretary.

The sixth pay commission has reverted to an integrated scale for the Armed Forces. But it introduced this for the other services as well, and has fixed this integrated scale way below that of the Joint Secretary. As a result a Brigadier with over 30 years service will draw less pay than a Joint Secretary with only 14 years of service.

To firmly establish the IAS superiority, the commission has recommended that the seniority of officers be decided by grade pay rather than the basic pay. The IAS stranglehold on the pay commissions has continued in the form of Member secretary in this pay commission as well. The distinct aim of the commission report seems to be to perpetuate IAS supremacy, which explains the murmurs of protest from all other services.

A serving police officer has described the report as the “Manusmriti of the civil services” which perpetuates this “bureaucratic caste system”. He further asserts that despite realising “the need for more open, less hierarchical, and merit-driven organizations”, the government apparently does not see the need to change “a system that substitutes the privileges of birth with the privileges of the UPSC exam. If you are born a Brahmin it is enough for a lifetime of privilege. As the 6th CPC sees it, the same logic applies to the IAS”.

At the lower end of the spectrum, the pay commission has equated a soldier to a semi-skilled worker and after accepting the hardships he undergoes has recommended a paltry MSP of Rs 1000/-. There can be no rationale for a differential MSP between the officers and the soldiers, as both face similar hardships.

Ideally all soldiers and all officers upto the rank of Major General should get Rs 6000/- as the MSP or if egalitarianism has been buried with Marx, an MSP of minimum Rs 3000/- must be given to the soldiers.

Similarly the Pay Commission makes a strong case for inducting defence personnel into the paramilitary forces. But the question is, why only PMF, and not other organs of state? Depending on their suitability the defence officers need to be inducted in all organs of state, including the Ministry of Defence. When officers from other All India services can man various ministries, why can’t defence officers and personnel do the same?

A time has come for the government to be more sympathetic, considering the peculiar circumstances of the defence services and the fact that they cannot go on strike in support of their demands. The soldiers’ grievances must be assuaged and the MSP for the soldiers must be raised. In case of officers the integrated pay band must include the entire scale of Joint Secretary as well, because not only do officers rise to that level in every other service, but also because the broad pay band for a Major General is useless as the defence officers will never serve in that rank for long enough period to enjoy the full benefits of that wide pay band.

It is a classic case of a civilian template being superimposed on an entirely different military structure. The stranglehold of the IAS on this Pay Commission has been so strong that the Director of a well known economic think tank called it a Pay Commission ‘of the IAS, by the IAS and for the IAS’.

Right or wrong, such perceptions are extremely dangerous and in future the government must ensure that the Pay Commission never includes a potential beneficiary either serving or retired.

Ideally the Pay Commission must comprise of judges, academics and HR professionals. Unfortunately the government has appointed a committee of Secretaries to go into the anomalies. How does it expect the IAS officers to undo the damage when all it does is to perpetuate their supremacy? A time has come for the ministers to start thinking independently of their secretaries.

The views expressed in the article are of the author’s and not of Sify.com.

Anonymous said...

You Should all read this written by a soldier on another Blog:-

All people in civil need to understand few things
We cant be compared with civilians…we don’t have a 9 to 5 job.

Armed Forces people don’t want to talk about these things here.

We don’t like discussing money....If we go and fight and combat dangerous situations it’s not because we are paid a lot of money..... How much money will you agree to take to enter houses every day where there might be a hiding terrorist waiting to fire at you at point blank range?
Unfortunately today we have to stand up and speak. Do not doubt our professionalism though. We are trained to fight and God save all of you if we have to someday reconsider. What if they fire at the borders and instead of firing back we just turn away???
Those who say there will be no war in the future and we are now not required are fools. Because there will be no war- NOT because there are no enemies but because of US-WE THE ARMED FORCES. Thank God my countrymen we haven’t gone the way of the Police forces of the country. Now thank Him once again.
This Pay commission is a child of a clever group of people who have thought about the whole business of introducing anomalies in such detail and drawing our attention away from the real issues.
All civilians will agree that if someone was drawing a particular pay and was at certain level you can’t increase that level by leaving out a small group...so we feel cheated...another few thousands will not dramatically effect anything we don’t mind if all people upgraded are brought back again....but isn’t it better that all of us agree to the parity that we had before the 6cpc???
All civilians must remember Army officers are entering a class one service and were always paid more than Civil services in pay scales….only civ services tended to get promoted faster. You see majority get to the senior levels and as compared to us in half the time and have more vacancies. Nothing against them we in Armed Forces have different constraints we just try to better our systems and thus AV Singh I and II.
For every one of you people throwing your degrees at us remember the competition in NDA selection is out of 2.5 lac applying in class XII 200 get through in the end. And it doesn’t end here we have more specialization courses than you have fingers on 20 people put together. And then we have competitive courses for further specialization still. Remember we are even training the Americans….! These qualifications cant be equated with your degrees for Army courses are absolutely ruthless and demanding.(unlike most grad courses that most of u throw at us!) I feel we must get due for these but unfortunately how many battles shall we fight? Yes our PBOR also go through many courses and these too need recognition and we can ask for better parity in Pay commissions….hello he's not just a class X/ XII pass guy anymore and so why must he be in Pay Band I????.

Now to the REAL problems...that we should see:-
1. Why did the Pay commission not give MSP as a percentage of Pay? By fixing the amount they have all reduced the amount for everyone as they put in more service...

2. Also if it is a special component why not calls it an allowance??? Because they want half of it back as TAX? And if it is granted because of our Difficult Military Conditions then why put it as part of pay when comparing Parity with civilians?

3. Some blogs mention that PBORs are not happy and their pay has also been degraded THIS needs serious look urgently. The Pay Commission has made us focus elsewhere on these issues (which are also imp) but all brother officers remember our Motto please.....Safety honour and Welfare of the men we command comes higher than our own…….Also our jawans are not IT literate therefore their voices can’t be heard here
The CPMFs have also been given a raw deal....MSP like pay should be given to them also...they live in field areas one after the other. Yes they are more comfortable than us even there but they too are required to be remembered and I think that has been agreed to and is on the cards. Their “detachment allowance” though caters for some aspects which our Infantry MUST ask for with absolute firmness.

As regards a commandant and a Lt Col being senior Junior etc...CPMFs need to review that and maybe let a DIG command their Battalions. As regards inter services seniority...CPMFs are a junior service---its required in the Design for our operational needs. Just as we need even very senior engineers officer to be under command an Armoured Squadron Commander in operations....A commandant may be commanding 6 companies (one is HQ coy and another training coy) but in operations he must be integrated in the overall plan and that plan is NOT made by PMF but by the ARMY. so he will still have to come under command his Army counterpart- may it so happen his Army counterpart may be an Commanding Officer of the rank of a Lt Col with three Squadrons.
Also the countrymen must remember that when War comes it’s not that I’ll get out of my bed and contest the enemy....I need to spend 80 percent of my life training and practicing and teaching drills, tactics and preparing, repairing and administrating the WAR effort so that when needed there is no rust on the edge.

And Lastly I can’t pick up my Dibba at 1700Hrs and go home……. The average time an Armed Forces Officer spends away from family is two times our civilian counterparts….and I also can’t turn back and say “it’s not my job”.

My dear countrymen WE the ARMED FORCES are NOT comparable. OK.

And by the way we also hold very powerful weapons in this country! Don’t you agree its best Army be given what it asks honorably and let it go on doing what it does best without political and these senseless discussions. We all know when all else fails you will come to us. Well alright we are always ready to help.
It’s an Honour ,You See.

Anonymous said...

The very fact that both Mr Chidambaram and Mr Prithviraj Chavan
have been directed by the PM to hear Chairman Chiefs of Staff Committee,proves and I am sure there was somthing fishy the way whole affair of "Armed Forces Pay Package" was dealt by BABUs of finance Ministry!

Anonymous said...

has any one wondered why the situation has come to this? we are having to fight for every inch. this is because we have ceased to be specialists in our own field. we should mould specialists and not generalists. in these times specialists are valued and are not challanged. there seems to be perception that the work the armed forces do can be done by anyone (apart from few specialist jobs - commandos,fighter pilots etc). What the world sees is like what service officers do in HQs/Base postings.
First of all we(in forces) should drastically cut down on flab. This would empower our specialised officer core. We should outsource all routine functions, including logistics, maintenance yet retaining operational control. Friends let me tell u all that decision making chain should be cut down by many levels- in any case a few layers do not give any value addition. The sad part of todays services is that we have started treating lt col and below as working level officers. this has to change. officers should be implementors/decision makers. we should not run around with files and demean ourselves in front of civilians. A process which has been formulated by a competant authority shouls be followed. we cannot be and should not be holier than thou / more loyal than king.
we need to look at how we function and believe me a lot of changes can be made without much effort.

Also, a word about PMR - let people go, u will get new and fresh people. that we evolve and grow

Anonymous said...

Simple and best solution is: Just give us what IAS is taking with those no of yrs of service and period

Anonymous said...

Well done navdeep! we need to file a case in Supreme court against 4th and 5th CPC also for degrading us and causing financial losses. We are entitled to get arrears on those losses as well.

Anonymous said...

The chiefs of the army, navy and air force need to be commended and congratulated for their upright and bold stand for the men and women under their command.

Anonymous said...


So the simmering discontent finally caused the PM to wake up in his New York hotel a odd hours

This could be the litmus test for the Congress government in the election


Anonymous said...

Services Cief has acted like a trade union leader.