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Thursday, September 11, 2008

'Approval of Pay Band-4 for Lt Colonels by the Cabinet today' is a rumour, kindly ignore

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Some sites are circulating the news that the Cabinet has today approved the upgradation of Lieut Colonels and equivalent to Pay Band-4. This is just a rumour and best ignored. The agenda point for the same was not taken up today by the Cabinet probably because of the absence of the Defence Minister. Maybe next week...

So ignore the rumours, relax for now and read this again :-)

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41 comments:

Anonymous said...

moral , status etc , which 'fauj' keeps harping upon may be non -issue for Govt .we should be happy that our supreme commander has got a pay hike.

Anonymous said...

yes at the cost of cut in pay of lt cols

Anonymous said...

any idea when is going to be considered by the cabinet

Anonymous said...

It is heartening to know that for the first time the defence forces have jointly voiced their concerns. More than the pay it is the status which is at stake and we have reached this situation because we have been accepting for a very long time.
The people who think that our demands are unjustified should take on our task. In fact it is the other round. The defence forces are called to do their job. The senior babus dont even have time to issue orders as they are busy filling their coffers and pleasing the political bosses. The case in recent past is Bihar floods. Despite PM declaring it a National Calamity the babus could not pass formal orders to employ army for aid of civil authorities. Unfortunately defence forces which were ready all the time could only employ after formal order are received and the poor people suffered.

Anonymous said...

I think all Cabinet Meetings, if not on Urgent/Pressing matters, are on only on Thurdays. Even though this is an Urgent/Pressing matter the RM sahib is out of country.

Anonymous said...

Maj Navdeep, you have said in your post that the point was on agenda but was not discussed due to non-availability of RM. Does it mean that this point features on agenda of CCEA and may be discussed only in RM's presence?

Anonymous said...

Pay for the armed forces which was on the agenda was not discussed bcos RM was out of the country.

sherkhaan09 said...

it is good to see that the forces are fighting for their rights. do hope the issue of pensions is also being addressed. while fixing the pays its imparative that the military service pay(MSP) is included both for pension as also for DA. you would recall that when the rank pay was brought in there was resistance to include it for pension and DA, until the than AG foot his foot down and the ministry relented hope the long drawn fight is not repeated for MSP. hope that powers that be see reason and include the MSP for all purposes including fixing of pensions of pre 2006 pensioners. INSAH ALAH.

Col VT Venkatesh(Retd) said...

As per the pay commssion final report MSP is being included for pension & even for fixing the pay of a Maj Gen(though MSP is not auth for a Maj gen) so that he does not get less pay than a Brig.
The question is whether it will be included for the past pensioners (even pre 01Sep2008) pensioners.
The babus will certainly not like to give this with out a fight unless saner counsel prevails.
Actually this is also the fault of the services.They should not ask for any thing which is not there on the civil side.They should have asked for more grade pay instead of MSP.
Though grade pay is also a new item,arrears are being paid.I did not find any where regardingservics insisting that MSP should be paid from 01 Jan 2006 & also that it should be included for pre 01 Sep 2008 pensioners.
The sad truth is there is no one to fight for the pensioners.This is true for the civilian pensioners too.

ans said...

FOOD FOR THOUGHT
Cabinet took following decisions in their last meeting.
1.Quota for Haj was increased.
2.Presidents pay has been hiked from 1L to 1.5L.
Can you recollect, President's pay was revised recently when the pay commission was constituted to
1L.That was deliberately done as a feeler for SPC not to think of any figures beyond Presidents pay(1L)
Imdt after the finalisation of SPC Presidents pay has been rerevised.
The entire script of SPC has been written by none other than Mr Chidambram and directed by Mr Man Mohan Singh.Do you think they will yield so easily.Even if they give you something, it will only be after portraying you as a perpetual cribber and never contented Army.
We are too innocent to think on these lines and tend to believe what meets our eyes.The time has come when we must introduce subjects like politics,sociology and diplomacy in our mil courses to beat these jokers in their own game.Not a bad idea to peep at the curriculum being followed at Mussorie,which transforms a simple innocent man from rural India into a cunning personality.It all depend on trg and grooming.
Its a question of survival,and like any other org Services must keep pace with the changing times.Lets discuss politics in our messes.Why not?Groom our young brothers to understand the nuances of politics and use it to our benifit.Permit offrs to interact with media and put across their view points.Whats wrong in all this?Why should an IAS/IPS offr brief media on Military actions?Recollect DGP J&K briefing about rescue of civilian hostages from terrorists at Jammu,where police was not even seen in the press footages.Why can't Army Offrs in charge of the operation call a press conf and brief the media?We ourselves have degraded our standing in the society by imposing baseless restrictions.
Our image in the society is being tarnished deliberately in a planned manner by highlighting petty abberations.Recollect phrases like "KETCHUP COL" and "BOOZE BRIG".Its not stopping there,now a congress stooge called Sekhar Gupta(I prefer calling him Gupta ji fondly) has the audacity of casting aspersion on our chiefs.
Has someone officially taken up the issue to caution him or his News Paper to refrain from such writings?Chiefs are not merely Govt servants but an institution by themselves.Can he dare write simlar article about Chief Justice of India.
Look at the way Military Uniforms are being degraded.Every second security guard on street is donning the uniform for which you and me have toiled for years.Not stopping there,even some state govts have created forces of their own and given them Army Uniforms.
The list is endless.The pride of being a soldier has vanished,someone has correctly said "THE GIANT SHIP IS SINKING FOLKS,JUST BAIL OUT"
Navdeep says "HAVE FAITH".Every cloud has a silver lining ,and we live waiting for that silver lining to emerge.
Its not an scripted comment so plese pardon for incoherrence and spellings here and there.

War Veteran said...

In the mid 60's - when NDA was still cool - life was far removed from the crazy rat race we witness today. There was also no OPEC. Oil was flowing like water, abundant water of those days, of course. The Gulf countries were also one of the poorer countries of the world. Rather belatedly they came to realize how they had allowed themselves to be short-changed while they sat on the riches of the world. Then OPEC was formed and things turned as bad as it gets for the rest. We are in a similar situation of their pre-OPEC days, only difference being that our case starts from the opposite direction. Our status is being lowered CPC after CPC, decade after decade. And, by the way, we still have to reach the bottom of the pit - if the sly babus have their way. Our case is not dissimilar to the way women are treated by society. Praise upon praise is showered....we respect you, worship you, you are Devi... blah, blah blah. As soon as she demands her due - How dare you speak up...you will be taught a lesson... stay where you belong and don't dare question us, or else! Well, we have no one to blame for our predicament but ourselves. Instead of being paid according to the risk and sacrifice we undertake, we are being taunted by the smart cookies that we are worth what we are being paid. If we don't falter now the seeds are being sown by our gallant Chiefs for a separate Pay Commission ten years down the line. In the future, when no youth will think of joining the forces, then the babus will be forced to make Armed Forces one of the highest paid jobs so that some chaps can do all the sacrifice for their own cushy life-style. With this SPC we have arrived at a fork in the road where we have to prove we have it in us to fight and deflate the babus to get our rightful due. Or else we remain to be where we find ourselves - to be shunned by all, the ugly beggar.

gvg said...

pay of Lt.col is RS13500/-400-RS17100 +1600(RANK Pay)........PAY OF CIVILIAN DIRECTOR/SE /NFSG --RS14300-400-18300/. IS LT.COL .ON PAR ! JUDGE YOUR SELF .KEEP RANK PAY ASIDE .WHAT WE HAVE ASKED HAS BEEN GIVEN.

Col_30 said...

Can any one tell what all points are there on the agenda from defence side for the cabinet meeting and who shall be representing defence services apart from Def Min.

Anonymous said...

@ gvg..

no lt cols are well beyond director/se/nfsg...think ur self...
when se/nfsg/director fail...lt cols come.in..

Anonymous said...

Fully agree with war veteran. It is time we stop and ask ourselves, is this the legacy we want to give our kids? IAS is termite and politicians cockroaches who are busy weakening the very structure of nation. How they have turned from simple clerks to power mandarins is a case study in itself.

Verily we have reached a crossroads and a decision needs to be taken regarding what we stand for. Are we ready to make sacrifices so that future generations can breathe in an air free of corruption and despondency? The change has to start from the very top and requires a highly concerted effort to take on the spider's web like reach of the admins (calling these clerks as admins itself makes my skin crawl).

There needs to be a clear cut strategy. For now, there are only ideas floating around with no concrete, clear cut direction. Yes, present stand by Chiefs of Staff can be a starting point for getting a separate pay commission for armed forces. But then, we will need to allay fears of powers that be that the intent is not go the way of our neighbor but just and deserving compensation for young men and women who are willing to be sacrificial goats.

Apart from this, Chiefs need to start taking upright stands by using power of media. This has to be done very shrewdly and cunningly, because most of media houses are devoted to power. A case in example is cake and pudding being provided to CNN-IBN in the form of exclusive interviews as a reward for not airing tapes related to no-confidence motion.

Ultimately, all our fights have to be within the democratic system with the highest regard fro parliament. But is the parliament in its present avatar able to inspire any morality? Regardless, i surely think that we have reached a evolutionary (and not revolutionary) stage in our democracy where things need to change for the better. How armed forces can contribute to it, is a question that deserves lots of thought. We are always and ever ready for the enemy at the borders, but time has to come to fight the enemy within.

Anonymous said...

@ gvg
You are writing in English so I presume you know reading English.
Please READ 4th Pay Commission Report PROPERLY, "Rank Pay is Carved Out of Basic Pay Specifically for Distinction of rank Structure",For ALL PURPOSES RANK PAY AND BASIC PAY ARE ONE AND THE SAME THING, If you don't know something correctly, Do Not Open Up in Public and make Fool of Yourself

Anonymous said...

When their is flood send Army, Riot send Army, resue operation send army, terrorism beyond control of Police and Paramilitary send army, anything beyond control of the civilian set up send army... Every Pay commission has brought down status of Officers' in Uniform... Now, establishments in our country are projecting as if Fauji Officer is running after the money...

Anonymous said...

Dy Secretary in PB-4

Commissioned officer if pass qualifying exams, maintain physical standards than in 13 years can pick up Lt Col rank. IAS trying to push Dy Sec to PB4(total qulifying service 8-9 yrs. No rationale

Anonymous said...

Does the following not mean OROP?

'Here are some pearls from the judgement of the Hon’ble Supreme Court :

“….The larger issue involved is whether there could be a disparity in payment of pension to officers of the same rank, who had retired prior to the introduction of the revised pay scales, with those who retired thereafter….”

gvg said...

I HAVE READ 4 TH &5TH PAY COMMISSION REPORTS . WHO IS TO BE FAULTED .FOR KEEPING RANK PAY SEPARATELY. YES IT IS BASIC FOR ALL PURPOSES. WERE IS RANK PAY NOW . WHO HAS ASKED MSP. BLAME THE GENERALS. WHY COMPARE OUR SELVES WITH CIVILIANS.WHO IS STOPPING IF WE ADOPT CIVILIAN /IPS TYPE OF PROMOTIONS .IT IS WE AND NOT ANY ONE . AND WHO HAS STOPPED LT. COL BEING KEPT IN PB 4. IT IS AGAIN WE . WE ARE RANK CONCIOUS.NO CIVILIAN IS CONCEREND IF LT.COL IS KEPT IN PB 4.LET US NOT COPMPARE WITH OTHERS .LET US BE VERY CLEAR WHAT WE WANT. WE ASKED FOR A GRADE PAY OF RS 7600// FOR LT.COL IT IS ACCEPTED. WE DONOT WANT LT. COL .COL, BRIG , GENS, IN SAME GROUP. IS NOT A FACT. SEARCH YOUR SOULS BROTHER OFFICERS .

kl said...

I ENDORES THE VIEWS EXPRESSED BY GVG . IT IS OUR BROTHER OFFICERS TO BE FAULTED. e.g is it not true that it is our own clan who has taken the issue of NPA for doctors to pre 1996 pensioners to supreme court. civilian doctors are enjoying the benefit. BUT services arenot.

Prakash said...

@GVG

Dear Officers,
Please dont respond or bother about this character gvg's remarks. I am sure that he is a faruad and not an officer of Armed Forces. He doesn't even know what he is talking about and he is jus shooting shit with confidence.

Mr GVG.. Keep your stupid comments to yourself where in u r jus blaming Generals and Armed Forces Officers for ^ CPC anomalies.

Did COSC came and told u tat we asked only 7600/- for Lt Cols?
DID COSC came and told u taht they said dun kleep Lt Cols in PB4?

After reading such a shallow remark from u i am 100% sure taht forget about reading 4 and 5 Pay commission reports you have not even read 6 CPC report.

So better keep your immature commenst to yourself
Prakash

Anonymous said...

What we need to think is what is to be done in case PB4 does not come through ,may be all Lt Cols should take leave simultaneously.commanding a unit is not a joke and I am not going to let any of my guys be killed ever for the sake of getting a few terrorists.This is it for me...NO BODY CARES FOR OUR LIVES,,WHY SHOULD WE TALK ABOUT ALL THIS BLOODY NONSENSE OF HONOUR AND PRIDE AND ALL THAT?I WILL NOT LET A SINGLE JAWAN SUFFER FROM NOW ON AND WILL DO WHATEVER I CAN TO BEND RULES TO HELP THEM.....IT'S A BLOODY PITY THAT A FEW JOKERS WHO CALL US EVERY f*****g thing from flood to riots decide our destiny

Anonymous said...

@ all
Guys, We should not bank on resolution of anomalies in our favour. The world was never meant to be fair in all respects. We joined this respectable profession out of choice and not compulsion, so we should have the option of exit, again out of choice and not compulsion- if things do not go favourably. All of you bravehearts, dont despair, build up your competencies in areas in which you are good at, this rpt this alone will stand in good stead in the world outside.
As we all know, one should always be in a position of strength whilst negotiating. Sadly, we have failed to build suitable retired officer leadership (i.e guys who have retired and can do something)
In a democracy, it's the people's will and that is manifested in the politicians (thru bureucrats).
Also, another small point - we should not keep projecting our so called perks to all and sundry. Hospitality is fine, but remember, the same guys would next days belittle us

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous at September 12, 2008 8:35 PM
This Enlightenment Call to Wake Up to all service personnel should have come long back, But ITS' NEVER TOO LATE !!

Anonymous said...

One Good thing has been done by the revised SCPC report i.e. It has Opened the Mental-Sight(Man-ki-Aankhen)of All service personnel especially Officers about Politician-Babu-Nexus W.R.T. Services

Heretic said...

Before 6th Pay commission, a Lt Col was drawing MORE pay than a Civilian officer in the S-24 and EQUAL to S-25 Pay Scale. (In fact at the outer end pay scale a Lt Col’s pay scale is even superior to S-25 scale and as per DOPT orders, the outer end decides the seniority of scale.) Now both S-24 and S-25 will draw a substantially higher salary even after offsetting the supposedly NEW benefit of MSP as the Lt Col has now been equated with S-23. Also, please note even CPMF is likely to get MSP like pay soon.

Now look at this in the context of other related issues of Armed Forces Officers: Early retirement, small percentage of officers reach senior ranks as compared to nearly 100% of some other Group A officers not because of any other reason but organisational constraints.
The bottom line is: just compare how many civil services officers are quitting service? This alone will answer many questions about how the remunerations should be.

The issue seems to be crystal clear. But I really fail to understand the opposing viewpoints of those who have downgraded the Lt Cols etc. Can anyone throw light on what these guys are thinking? I would really like to the other viewpoint too.

Anonymous said...

WHO IS THIS GVG , track him down , find him , destroy him

Anonymous said...

The indifferent attitude of media in not highlighting these issues makes us wonder where have all those famous war reporters gone? They have time to start discussion on every issue under the sun, but not about the injustive being meeted out to service officers.

shiv said...

There is some merit in what GVG is saying. Why cant the forces imediately adopt AVSC Phase II propote officer to the rank of Colonels at the earliest, use the vacancies provided by AVSC instead of stretching them to 5- 10 years as the navy is planning? Is there a need to have 10 levels in the forces, have faster promotions. The mindset of the senior officers has to change first.

Anonymous said...

i fully agree with the comment that it is our senior officers more that any one else who are keeping us junior and middle level officers in a state of denial. Do u think they are so innocent. They are bigger culprits than any 'outsider'. For the purpose of creating an artificial distinction, they will deny us what the government has allowed us. Just see what bungling the Navy is undertaking by not implementing the new vacancies for the rank of Captain. There is no clarity on the issue even after so much time has passed since the govt gave the go ahead for implementing the AVSC-II. A bureaucrat in uniform is the worst form of bureaucrat. There are so many things that have been authorised to officers at the middle and junior level but our bosses keep denying us these things so that 'istinction' between 'them'and their juniors is maintained. Had our seniors not compromised themselves by running for plum govt jobs after retirement like becoming governor etc we wouldnt have been in such a shit state. U only need to look how every station commander misuses various non public funds at his disposal for his personal comfort and benefit and to serve his visiting senior officer the choicest of whisky to realise that his personal comfort comes first always and everytime.

Anonymous said...

Even if Govt HALVES the pay of IAS and police, I bet my head none of them is going to leave, for OBVIOUS reasons. Pay is miniscule part of their EARNINGS.Similar is the case with MES as well. It would be interesting to know how many Sons of IAS officers are serving as officers in armed forces. I bet there is none. The solution to get them think more rationally towards military is their offsprings MUST serve in military for at least short service commission tenure of 10 years because afterall the money they have made is of Indian TAx Payers!!!

Anonymous said...

Third pay commission.-LT.COL SCALE-RS 1500---RS 1900/..-------4th Pay commission RS 3900 / + rank pay (RS800/) INTHE SCALE OF RS 2300---100-3900--150--5100/.-------------------5TH PAY COMMISSION RS13500--RS17100/+RS 1600/ RANK PAY.-----------NFSG/DIRECTOR 3RD PAY COMMISSION RS 2000-RS 2250/ --4TH PAY COMMISSION-RS4500-5700/---------5TH PAY COMMISSION RS 14300--RS 18300/------------------------------SERVICES FRIEND SE 3RD-- --RS1200-RS2000/--4TH--RS3700-RS 5000/------5TH PAY COMMISSION INTIAL RECOMMEDATION RS 12000-RS 16500/ ---AFTER MANUPULATION RS 14300-RS 18300.------------------------------CAN ANY ONE GIVE THE SCALES OF 1 ST&2ND PAY COMMISSION.---- 6th pay allof us know. what went wrong who is responsible .- TIME SCALE OF LT.COL. Should be brought down to 11years. selction grade LT.COL SHOULD BE after 16years by selection only and should be kept in PB4.OR PB4 FROM 31000/to 67000/ captain to maj .gen .

Anonymous said...

1)none will leave .pay is pocket money.But what we are doing when IAS/IPS PROBATIONERS COME to units for two weeks attachment we give a royal welcome. Instead send them to op were our paplus/ juliets are there.2)when pay commission members visit us we host lunch /dinner in alpa /brig/ unit mess,SHOW all our silver /brass neatly polished with mess hav / thump ing foot resounding. .what impression we are creating aimpression of 5star plus .IN stead takethem to op were our paplus/juliets are there. keep them only one night there. IN the morning give them a bottle show the rope let them slide down for few meters for morning routine under watch fulleyes of sentry and enemy fire if any .Host lunch in deserts when sand stroms are there see the effect.BSF /CRPF /ITBP have followed this. SO lt.col/majors when you command a unit will you adopt this strategy or willyou adopt the policy of ihave suffered why should my juniors enjoy . I doubt. we are Acr concious + carrot of next rank is hanging . It is not a story , life of army officer(NOT AIR FORCEAND navy) In field and in deserts and short tennures in peace.

veteran said...

poor chap GVG told the truth.IT appears that inhis vertebral column there are no springs only bones and dics. BE care ful .you are calling a spade a spade .you should call it a stick .

Col_30 said...

The suggestion given by the anonymous at 120o0PM on 15 Sep 2008 is quite suitable for the settlement of disparity between Civil and Defenc Offrs. However I wish to add another suggestion to this. Although the Time Scale rank of Lt Col may be considered at 8th year commencing, the Selection rank of Lt Col should be done at 14th year commencing. Thus we can have both Time4 Scale as well as Selection Scale Lt Cols before the promotion to full Colonel Rank which is presently at the service mark of 16 years plus. Any more suggestions, as I would like to read more on this.

Anonymous said...

having gone through all the cooments it is heartening to see that my brothers are now feeling the heat too.it is time for all of us to shake the governance.but before that we need to clean up our system too.we are no longer an army weve turned ourselves into event managers.what is more important for us today is not to be profeessionals but how to keep our bosses oiled up.what has become more important for us is to remeber the birthdays of our seniors and not to miss sending them bottles of champagne and ofcourse a bouquet.ur hardwork and excellence and professionalism doesnt count anymore.the ethos of the forces has changed and im sure we all agree to it but turn a blind eye to the whole thing.see the tremendous amount of self generated stress weve created for oursleves.eveybody wants to extract his pound of flesh while hes in power.morality counts no more my dear brethren.somehow it gives me the impetus to plan an alternate career and move on and grow in life.we got to move with the changing times we got to have cash in our pockets.all through these years weve given our backsides to this country to be humiliated today and stand feeling belittled.no one listens and no one will.we have to decide for ourselves what we want in life.i sincerely hope that the future pushes the babus to give a serious thought to this side of the world where people are dropping like flies for a petty salary.why should we accept nonsense why should we.why should we risk our men into fighting.imagine the state the widows also who have to run to get the benefits for their husbands who acheive martyrdom.whos bothered no one.the fact is that we oursleves dont bother as long as it doesnt affect us.we need to tell the world we need to stand up .our superiors need to work for the organisation.the chiefs should resign togehter if they feel that their army is not satisfied.last but not the least kill this gvg fellow whos been talking shit.

Anonymous said...

Time is running out.
Will we get arrears this month end?

Anonymous said...

The fauj should put their foot down for once and the top bras should show their spine in standing firm on their demands for pay parity.Any little thing and the army is called out- from drought to flood ,earthquake to tsunami, even for internal strife which are to be looked after by the police and other forces but when it comes to pay they want to forget you and what you do.

Anonymous said...

have u ever seen our top brass stnding firm for their organisation.dont u think sir that the chief is looking forward to becoming a governor.atleast for once admiral sureesh mehts is taking a firm stand.the army chief i have my doubts if he can take a stand.

suri said...

Dear All,
It seems that most of us are reacting prematurely on the presumption that nobody we listen to the genuine grievances of us, the men in uniform. I think that's not the case and some of our sensible politicians will apply their head to ensure that the justice is done. For the information of all Defence Minister has already written a letter to Mr Chidambaram advocating the urgent need to remove the disparities brought in the SPC against Armed Forces. I think country wants us to be a bit more patient lest the patience run out. See full details on http://paycommissionnews.blogspot.com/ dated 20 Sep 2008.