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Monday, November 30, 2009

Two employment advertisements : One sad commentary

Look inwards.

It is sometimes appalling to hear the oft repeated fury towards the so called ‘netas and babus’ by the military community. It is no more than a delusion of persecution on our part. It seems that we have been brainwashed to believe that those in the government have nothing better to do than to cut the military to size. True, there has been a degradation of military sheen in the society in general for which successive governments have to take responsibility, but to totally put it upon ‘netas and babus’ and to act as holy cows in the bargain would not be fair at all. First of all, our own people are unable to get their acts together – and the constant e-mail wars, litigation and lack of common ground between various veteran organisations bear testimony to the fact. Secondly, we have started behaving as if the world at large owes us something, we want to be treated as so far special and removed from the general society that we need a wake up call, something to the effect of an alarm bell screaming – “Welcome to the real world !!!.” Most of the problems are self-created since we do not believe in thinking logically, democratically and within the four corners of what is acceptable and rational. Which brings me back to the subject at hand. There are two advertisements for deputation and re-employment of released military officers doing the rounds, one issued by the Ministry of Home Affairs and the other issued by the Directorate General of EME. Have a dekko:

Ministry of Home Affairs : Requirement of Officers to be appointed as PROs in BSF

Scale of Pay : Pay Band-3 / GP 6600 (Formerly 10000-15200)

Rank of officers sought on re-employment / deputation terms : Captains

Army's Directorate General of EME : Requirement of Officers to be appointed as Executive Engineers

Scale of Pay : Pay Band-3 / GP 6600 (Formerly 10000-15200)

Rank of officers sought on re-employment / deputation terms : Full Colonels / Lt Colonels

So there you have it. Charity begins at home. While the MHA seeks officers of the rank of Capt for a particular post, the Directorate General of EME seeks Cols and Lt Cols for a post of the same level with the same pay. And to add to it, it mentions in the advertisement that in actual terms the appointment of EEs is tenable by Majors. Some may jump in to say that Cols and Lt Cols are being re-employed as Capts and Majs even within the Army. But that my dear Sirs and Ma’ams is different. Within the Army you have the benefit of your uniform where you wear your actual ranks badges and enjoy the same entitlements coupled with the awareness of the position from where you retired which your colleagues recognise. Getting re-employed as a civilian is a different ball game altogether. We are unable to foresee what damage such actions would cause some years into the future. There would be no dearth of supply of Short Service Capts and Majors from the technical Arms who would love to join as EEs, why not give them this opportunity ? But what we are in short supply of is something else. It is application of mind and depth in work. Period.



exactly...It is application of mind and depth in work which is not being mutated in the correct terms....the corps of eme is already being treated as a man power bank....there have been man power cuts to the tune of 40-50% in few trades....who is responsible?it is the corps of eme itself!!!!!i feel that...not any one else!!!

Col NR Kurup (Retd) said...

" Secondly, we have started behaving as if the world at large owes us something,"

Above comment of yours is the crux of the problem. No one owe anything to anyone. Forget about the brag that one join army out of patriotism etc. One join defence forces only when one fail to get a better job It is struggle for existance and survival of the fittest. Why did the EME sought Col/LtCol for the job of a Captain ? Because they know that Retd Col/Lt Col will be queing for the job. Who is to blame ? A Col/Lt Col accustomed to a particular type of life just cannot change. They do not realise their capability to give the Politicians and others a tough competetion for their existence. Unless we change this concept of ours, ke-zara-zara ! !

sudhanshu said...

well brought out.the need of the hour is to change ourselves.. and this can be done if we accept our real position and our senior hierarchy is willing to look beyond personal gains and benefits in professional and personal terms.

Anonymous said...

this blog is something in line with what i meant when i had said about 'introspection ' in commenting on benipal's case.

Pramod said...

Forget about the brag that one join army out of patriotism etc. One join defence forces only when one fail to get a better job

@Col NR Kurup

Dear Sir, plz don't put us down as rubbish. I don't know why senior officers feel that every junior/other offrcer joined Army as he did not get a job else where.
Regrettably this attitude by few officers has always given an opportunity for "Army bashers to treat us as rubbish (even below the grade of a normal human)who did not get any job else where".

Yes sir, i did not join the Army JUST BECAUSE i wanted to lay down life etc etc. Most of us do not. . It was something else.. probably an urge to do something pious,something different,something for the country, adventure or simply the attraction to uniform. I still exactly don't have an answer to the question why i joined the Army, but yes i did know that i WANTED TO. But yes I did know, i may lose my life. Simple.
But by no means was I jobless/failed to get a job elsewhere.
Patriotism my not be the sole factor sir, but that does not mean we were jobless, hence got into the Army. This reflects poorly of your attitude towards fellow officers (and maybe yourself). I'm appalled.

Yes, it is very wrong to expect that the world owes us a lot and we must get favours everywhere.
I/ rather most of us, young in service, don't even worry about such frivolous things. We are rather careless/carefree about such matters.
But at the same time, i expect that i be treated as a simple citizen AT THE LEAST, no much-no less, and not as a LOSER. Probably Col Kurup (and people with similar opinion elsewhere esp in the civil services/politics) feel we are worthless, and hence the present state. I hope he retraces his statement.

And sir, did you say that an Army officer BRAGS about patriotism !!! Shocking.Shocking....fellow officers plz note...


Dear Veterans
How right is our friend Navdeep in expressing his anguish, which can only be felt by a logical and right minded veterans from the Armed Forces.
Navdeep is few amongst us who fearlessly but humbly hits the nail on the head. The nail which he hits is not to damage us but to waken us up from the preposterous slumber of self inflicting injuries.
Some of the egoist veterans with personal and self interest have readily accepted the bait/fodder towards self destruction. Pray let us not wash out the gains by bickering against each other, it is sheer madness and suicidal.we have to take few lessons from the books of the politicians and beaurocrats and pick up finer points to be more effective ,diplomatic(laced with cunningness)if we have to survive respectfully.
God save us otherwise.

Anonymous said...

After all that racket of Col= CE and Lt Col = SE we finally screw it up by saying "Kuch toh de do".
I am sure the author of this efup will be the first to tom-tom his daring ventures to give unto the services what is rightly theirs. Maybe we should find out who signed this letter and send him a flower ...

wraped in itching powder.

Anonymous said...

To the point and very balanced post........quintessential navdeep........But I just hope some of our wise men are tuning in to listen to all this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Col NR Kurup (Retd) said...

Thank you Pramod. I defenitely did not mean that we would have been jobless had we not joined services. If my message conveyed that feeling, I am extremely sorry. It is a natural phenomina that everyone try to get the best job one can get befitting their calibre and I still believe that job-hunting is a contineous process of everyone who think very high of their capabilities.
Dont't you think even the Governors and other senior Politicians aspire to become the President of India ? Why ? Is it out of keenness to serve the Nation or .....? In fact that was not the main issue. The issue is that we should never expect others to do something for us. We should have the bargaining power and should be able to dicttte terms so that they do not resort to illtreating the defence officers the same way the EME has publicised.


Forget about the brag that one join army out of patriotism etc. One join defence forces only when one fail to get a better job

@Col NR Kurup

I too beg to differ on this statement made by Col Retd,sadly it is these bunch of officers only who have been major contributors unfortunately of the state of IA image as on date.Why is the IA short of so many officers?because of circulation of poor and un matured thinking like this which leads todays youth in other direction then joining IA.I have spent more then 10 years as on date...and I can only tell....it is not as as bad as it is projected to be like when compared to our civil counterparts..QUALITY OF LIFE exists no doubt!!!!!and what defines QUALITY depends from person to person....for me QUALITY means health,sports,knowledge,handling so much of man power...espirit-de-corps...social life,management,exposure etc etc....

Navdeep / Maj Navdeep Singh said...

@Pramod and Anupam

I think the essence of Col Kurup's comments was misunderstood.

In today's scenario, job security is definitely playing a role in attracting youth towards various professions. In case of the Army per se, the charm of uniform and military life remains an integral aspect, but for minority of the populace in my humble opinion.

Anonymous said...

dear maj navdeep, i have heard from unconfirmed sources that payment of MSP w.e.f 01 Jan 06 has been accepted by the government. is that true? could you check on this. warm regards


@Col NR Kurup

I think I rode the wrong way after reading Col NR Kurup and misunderstood the essence of his comments...apologies!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

@ 17:19

c'mon yaar why don't you find it out your self. you are as much in the armed services as any one else. why pressurise the poor guy. he already has his plate full.

Pramod said...

@ Col Kurup and Maj Navdeep

thanx for the clarifications.. nw i cn get back on job with a smile :)



It is similar to the situation when I was invited for the interview for the post of Chief Administrative Officer at IIM Kozhikode offering Pay Band 3.

indranil said...

as a an assesor posted in the ssb i know exactly what is the lot coming here.but grant it to the organisation that it manages to make men out of them to some extent.finally it boils to the individual on his desire for self improvement in all fields of life..mental,intellect,spiritual,etc..hte need is to encourage out of box ideas..otherwise we will be harping on same issues.a wider imagination is a must

Rohit Agarwal said...

Navdeep is right as usual. Application of mind would make a lot of things a lot better.

For instance, one thing that has always puzzled me is that when we re-designated the appointments in Army HQ post the last cadre review, why were Colonels designated as Directors, when Directors in MoD are supposed to be equated with Lt Cols as per pay scales. I suspect it was another case of 'unmindful' action leading to a self goal.

Yogander Singh said...

I agree with Navdeep, This state of affairs has come about becasue the Army (as an organisation) has not been able to get tow strands of its policies to come togather. One strand is that of Employee Welfare (especially welfare of officers) A dispassionate analysis makes it clear that if we need 100 officers up to the level of company commander, the requirement for the level of Co is 25 and for higher level just 10. Due to intense pressure to open up avenues of promotion, the top-leadership of the Army has time-an-again gone for `welfare measure' of cadre reviews which have proliferated ranks but when squared with the organisation's limited ability to absorb, the cadre reviews have resutled in bloated HQs and staff, where too many are chasing too few files. What we need to do:-
(a) Immediately revert to Lt COl as CO.
(b) Reduce authorisation of officers in any unit (be it a technical or non-trechnical unit) to 12.
(c) Entire officer intake be Short Service, with six years service obligation.
(d) Release 75% after six years with the best possible severance package.
(e) Retain the balance for 33 years service.
(f) Totally stop re-employment.

Anonymous said...

Dear Navdeep,

I salute the spirit of the piece.. Critical Self Apprisal is a must..but who will do it..

Past a brigaiders rank... the decision makers in the Armed Forces are very busy chasing ranks and changing appointments..Who has the time and inclination to sit back, reflect, ponder over and decide what in long term is good for all of us.

That is the most serious flaw for the health of the organisation at present. Can we outsource that at least....??

Prabhjot Singh Chhatwal said...

Dear Veterans on this blog,
My warm Regards to all of you.After going through the post mailed by my younger brother, Navdeep and all the comments given by dear blogger veterans, I am compelled to ask your valued opinion about the following incidence.
A Sgt.(Equivalent to Hav.and Petty officer in other two forces)who at the time of retirement holding two Post Graduation Degrees,got registered with the Director General of Resettlement(DGR)for employment in Civil after retirement, got two interview calls from Respected DGR, in the first year of retirement, out of which first was for the Employment as Telephone Attendant and the other was for Peon-cum- Chowkidar(both class iv appointments). What is your opinion about this. Please enlighten.
Veteran Prabhjot Singh Chhatwal PLS Retd.

Anonymous said...

sir my comments have not been posted though i feel strongly for the issue. however its your prerogative to find what can make it further better.

Unknown said...

As Bureau after 26/11 recruited Ex service man from all the forces for the post of ACIOII (exe) till Feb 09 but I am sorry to say that total 07 Naval sailors those who have been retired in the month of July to December.Bureau refuse to issue them appointment letter, what was there mistake and why they did like this just spoil some bodies carrier

Veteran Prabhjot Singh Chhatwal said...

Dear Brother Navdeep,
Regards.Good enough.There is no comment from any corner to the incidence I projected in this comment column on 5-12-2009 at 10.27 PM. When a highly qualified ( Double M.A.) Senior Non-Commissioned Officer (Sgt.)is offered a class IV job in Civil by none other than Director General of Resettlement (DGR), there seems to be no concern regarding degradation.Hence no comments. Cheers for such attitude.

Navdeep / Maj Navdeep Singh said...

@Dear Veteran Chhatwal,

The reason why there have been no comments is that two new new posts have been posted on the blog after this post, moreover, every reader does not go through all comments on all posts.

Please do not read too much into this. The issue has been deliberated upon earlier in detail on the comments section of the blog.

Please also do not go by the feeling that since it is an issue concerning PBOR, comments are not being offered. Such feelings bring in an imaginary rift between various sections of the military community which is not conducive to the overall environment.


Dear Mr Prabhjot

Ref your mail containing the incident faced by Sgt.

Let me give you my background-----I took PMR (after 22 years in Army) in Mar 2006 and since then worked for 3 companies like Satyam, ITH etc, however, I found the attitude of the Corporate Sector towards the Defence personnel as a different one in negative sense while giving employment. The main reason is--- nearly all the defence personnel are multi-skilled and it is beyond the comprehension an average civilian counterpart. This leads to the insecurity in the mind of the immediate superior and hence they feel threatened about losing their position.

The articles in newspapers and magzines talking about the valour of Defence personnel is just an eyewash when it comes down to resettlement/ employment. They want the best with lowest of the salary and position as well. This is due to the articles appearing in the papers that armed forces personnels are paid peanuts. Not only that corporates start including pension in the CTC being offered. To mention, I had walked out of interview in one case when being considered for a company like Aditya Birla Group, when they asked about my pension and pensionary benefits. At the same time Corporates would not mind giving higher salary to lesser competent civilian counterpart.

I consider, Corporate as a society, is full of hypocrite people. As far as DGR is concerned, they have just not done their homework and in fact advise all ESM to take what ever is offered to them. DGR job must be handled by a professional HR Consultant like MAFOI or ABC CONSULTANTS to project a better image of ESM The less said about DGR is better.

Corporates feel that the best an ESM can do is to do the security job and nothing else without realizing that the ESM have the maximum exposure in all fields. Adding to that, loyalty, integrity and committment are basic quality which are inherent in them. But I have yet to see any civil organisation which values these qualities thus donot want ESM either. For Corporate people, it is the insecurity of the job and money which they first have to overcome.

I must confess that while talking to all ESM, the only factor which I found common among all --is that---------they miss the Defence Forces culture and environment.

Even today, if I get stuck anywhere--the only thing which comes handy to me is-- my identity as an ex Army officer which is synonymous to HONESTY and INTEGRITY. Unfortunately, it too is not valued anymore in corporate world.

Veteran Prabhjot Singh Chhatwal said...

Dear Maj.Navdeep,
Regards and thanks from the core of my heart.Your response was excellent and I am much impressed by your sincerety to the cause of welfare of veterans.Dear Navdeep, every one, among big brothers , is not like you and least those who are presently at the helm of affairs in most of the prominent organisations of veterans and as well as in active service, for pushing the cause of welfare of veterans. You need not be reminded since you are better informed than any body else in this sphere but dear, have you seen or heard any one, among such organisatios or in active service, seeking the change Pay Band from PB-I to PB-2 for Hav./Sgt./Petty Offr. who are, in fact, Senior Non-Commissioned Officers but mis-placed in Pay Band PB-1 along with Class IV employees and Sub.Maj./MWO/MCPO, who are the most vital link between officers and the men in Defense Forces and every command of operation is executed through them but have been placed with certain class III employees of civil set-up,by Sixth Central Pay Commission where as lot of hue and cry was raised for getting Pay Band raised from PB-III to PB-IV for Lt. Cols. and equivalents in other forces? There is,absolutely, no grudge among JCOs and below for change of band for them because this rank deserved it but some steps should have been taken for JCOs. and below also, by serving as well as retired Big Brothers,who mattered in this. Similarly, no one has exerted any pressure on the Govt. to release the orders for remaining benefits agreed by the Govt.(concerning JCOs and below) on the basis of recommendations made by CoS. before any thing else which will be a great healing touch to JCOs. and below.I hope you wiil catch my feelings and not the words.Thanks for your offer.God bless you .

Navdeep / Maj Navdeep Singh said...

@Veteran Chhatwal

I agree with you that all categories of defence personnel need an upward push, however the correct position is somewhat different that your post :

Sgts are NOT equated with Group-D (Class-IV)employees. In fact, Group-C (formerly known as Class-III) employees on the civil side start in PB-1 with a Grade Pay of Rs 1900 while our Sepoy starts in the same PB with a GP of 2000. Hence what to talk of Sgts / Havs, even our Sepoy is higher than Group-C employees.

Nothing can be viewed in isolation, our Sgts/Havs are now placed with ASIs of the Delhi Police / CPOs, hence have not suffered a set back in comparison with other uniformed services atleast, hence if there has to be an upward shift which they definitely deserve, it must be viewed holistically and not in isolation.

Sub Majs have NOT at all been equated with any Group-C (Class-III) employee as remarked by you. In fact, Sub Majs have been equated with the highest of Group-B Gazetted officers on the civil side. As far as comparison with other uniformed forces goes, a Sub Maj is equivalent with an Asst Commissioner of Police (Group B Gazetted) of the Delhi Police.

If we have to ask for our rights, we must do so with correct information at our hands first.


Unknown said...

Its also a debatable matter that what is going with the ex.servicemen whos sent retired on medical ground from there services and have good academic and technical qualifications. Still they r waiting for there next rehablitation. What is the gove. polieies and when it will be implimented to show its real results. Thanks NK Harendra Singh(Retd.)