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Monday, September 21, 2009

Now here comes a surprising twist in the chor-sipahi saga

In a candid admission before an august gathering, the Director CBI, Mr Ashwani Kumar, a career Police officer, stated that in view of the nexus between drug lords and the police, he was in favour of the defence forces taking on the drug mafia since the police had failed in the task. He also passed some other not-so-kind remarks about our police and administrative officers.

Mr Kumar clarified that he was speaking from the heart. Amongst others, the gathering consisted of a Supreme Court Judge and the Chief Justice of the Punjab & Haryana High Court.

Though the already stretched defence forces would be the last to feel good about this thought process, the story can be accessed by clicking here. (Only a part of the story now remains visible on HT's e-edition)

Note : I would like to re-assure those who have rued about the closure of the chat-box or strict moderation of comments. Your thoughts would not be ‘policed’ but if harsh adjectives are used against any person by name or appointment especially by anonymous posters, then such comments shall not be made visible for public viewing. There is no need to be touchy about this since as the owner of this blog, I have a moral duty to protect the dignity of individuals who otherwise do not have means of replying back or defending themselves. It is easy for some to hide behind the curtain of anonymity but that is not how things work in an open medium. There is also a need to ensure that the military community is not projected in bad light. The discussions on the chat box had reached a nadir, more than meaningful exchange of thoughts it had turned out to be a community bashing system for many – Army Vs IAS, Corps of Engineers Vs IDSE, Retired Vs Serving, Seniors Vs Juniors and pathetically even Jawans Vs Officers. Cribbing and fighting was not what the chat box was meant for. Rest assured, it would pop up again at the opportune time. It is upto you when.

35 comments:

manav musings said...

oopps Navdeep!!!!

THE LINKS Took ME TO "GET ADMISSION IN Kothari International School", which fortunately is just 2.5 KM from my home.

And thanks for stopping the comments.
in fact you shouldn't have restarted it. But being a good guy who believes that others too will turn out good, i do not fault you.
i had stopped reading it two/three months back.
What dismayed me was the facts that our brother officers could not write and convey their feelings without becoming obscene/deranged.

Its fun and very informative to read your blog. I am treated as authority by non internet users since I am always out with latest info on mil matters.
Thanks and carry on despite our fellow users who dont know when they should stop making fool of themselves.

Anonymous said...

@Navdeep
I would like to ask one thing from your friends and readers of this beautiful blog who have demanded the return of chatting with so much authority - If you read an article in a paper and write a letter to the editor, doesn't the editor have a right to EDIT your letters or what appears in his paper ? do we flood the editor with mails asking him why he edited or moderated your mails ? it is not done. Your readers should not cry like babies if their comments are not posted. If they are such tigers then they should go fight the system themselves or name and identify yourself before calling people names in the garb of 'anonymous'. Reading this comment on the previous post made me shiver :

It is now openly IAS / IPS defenders blog. I am afraid participation in the blog may compromise Armed Forces officers position. So good buy for ever...


Mind you, this service officer above is talking about this blog which is the only source which has made army officers aware of their actual status and has given a boost to the credibility and status of military all over india. This comment above is pathetic. (Pl don't edit this)

and it is not good BUY, it is good BYE

Anonymous said...

Dear Navdeep,

I think you have done the right thing by suspending the chat box for the time being. Better to let everybody cool off a bit. Lately, it had become very embarrassing to read the kind of comments that the guys were making. It was getting too personal and childish. Of course, not every participant was like that. There were a few whose comments were mature as well as informative.

Anonymous said...

Sir,

I felt very sad on knowing that the c/box wass taken off-air.

The Relevance and Necessity of such a facility (c/box) provided by ur blog was not understood by many. For such casual and non-serious it means nothing. But for others it is a MISSSED OPPORTUNITY FOR EXCHANGE OF FREE/FAIR VIEWS.

HOPING FOR AN EARLY RE-APPEARANCE OF C/BOX ON UR BLOG, AGAIN, SIR,

Gavini VN

X SGT JN CHRISTIAN said...

IT IS VERY SAD TO LEARN ABOUT CLOSURE OF CHAT BOX.BARRING CERTAIN BLOGGERS THE BLOGGING WAS VERY USEFULL AND INFORMATION SHARING FOR DEFENCE COMMUNITY. I REQUEST AND EXPECT EARLY OPENING OF THE CHAT BOX.

Anonymous said...

Dear Navdeep,

Thanks for a good diversion.

Many IPS officers of repute and fame, when in Public domain and retired pass good comments about the Army and Armed Forces. Many of them have written on Internal Security, Counter terrorism, Narcotics and threat from neighbouring countries.

These include names like KPS Gill, Mr Parakash Singh, Roberio and many others.

However, when in service many of the same gentemen, were responsible for IPS Empire expansion and putting the Services in grave disadvantage.

When one retires, either one is free to speak out the truth or they need attention from people outside their parent organisations. Why the "Country" becomes important only after retirement ?

To tell you the truth, this nexus was pointed out by a study conducted by late Gen Joshi and a joint mechanism to deal with Coastal areas was mooted.That was much before explosive landings for Bombay and 26/11 occured. Our Naval brothers and now Coast Guard is well aware of it. But NCB and Custom officials staffed by IAS and IPS at higher echlons are beyond the reach and the local district administration is deeply into all of it.

Drug money largly contributes to funding terrorism and eating the vitals of the country. It is a big problem for the society sapping largly its youth..

But why this late lament..?? Can he name a few. CVC has done it selectively hiding names of the real culprits

manav musings said...

Dear Navdeep,

now the link is working.

I want a new discussion to be initiated on your blog which is Officer related:(I am talking only army because I don't know about other services. But since our social values are same, I presume the problem is same)

Its the ACR rating, and detailment of courses/promotions based on these ACR's ratings alone.

If you read the guidelines for initiating officers, the guidelines is very clear and accordingly no one can be FAIRLY graded more than 6 - 6.5 overall. This was happening till mid 80's.
Then the flood gates opened and now the entire army officer's are neighbour's envey as far as the gradings are concerned.

It is also true for all the organisation that 20% carry the burden of other 80%.

You ask this question. Is it possible? Can all those who were average to medium in their whole life, suddenly become "The Best".

In my view it is the social problem of being goody goddy, not ruffling the feathers, to finesh one's tenure somehow.
So the IO buys peace. He doesn't hold the bull by the horns and sorts the problem. He leaves it for others to deal with it.

The problem carries on. The undeserving go up. the hardworkers/slogger gets booted out.

Now for the detailment on higher courses. Why not all courses be open to fair written competition? Let the best go.
Why not the promotions be through open written exams? Let ACR ratings be given some % in overall marks. To remove aberrations like one falling sick etc, let everyone have 3-4-5 chances. Or let there be no restriction on number of chances like in part B/D.
Thje counter question which is likely to come up is why to touch a well running system?
I feel every thing needs to be looked afresh to include the prevailing requrements.

Doctor said...

Dear Navdeep,
I think closing the chat box was the right thing to do. The level of conversation had stooped to new lows. It was embarrassing to even read it.
I think some gentlemen need to realize that there is an enormous difference between badmouthing people in a bar after having downed a few drinks and expressing the same thoughts in a public forum where the comments are permanently recorded for posterity. (I think Dr Shashi Tharoor would testify to that).
As you correctly pointed out, the ultimate responsibility of this blog is yours and therefore the buck stops with you.
You are a very patient man indeed !!! If I were the owner of this blog I would have shut the chat box and may be even the blog long back (esp after the comment about you gaining personally from this blog was posted some time back).
I have greatly benefited from this blog and look forward to new posts here eagerly.
Thank you

Colonel DS Hoonjan (Retd) said...

You have been a very democratic, selfless and thorough gentleman that I have watched you on this blog as well your approach to the larger cross section of defence community since the inception of your blog. A few partcipants in the chat box remained insensate and brought us to this state. To be true to my self, I regulary read all on this blog and visited the website three to four times a day. Now everytime I boot up my laptop I feel as if something missing and I am sure thar a lot of defence personnel are feeling in a similar way in India as well abroad. Looking forward for things to resume in a better spirit. Thanks Maj Navdeep.

Anonymous said...

@ Navdeep

I learn from your message that you do not block/police messages unless they contain derogatory remarks against an individual or Organisation.

May I remind you that you have blocked two of my messages wherein you were requested to inform if you do not have the information of details to open a pension account in a private bank, so that we can explore alternate sources. one understands that you may not be privy to all information.

This in my opinion,besides being disappointing is not too polite!

Now, I hope that you do not block this message also, as proclaimed by you.

Navdeep / Maj Navdeep Singh said...

@Anonymous at 1.24


You could not have been more wrong my dear Sir. Firstly, you do not have the decency to acknowledge that your comments on pension account in private bank are already there on the relevant post, please see :

http://www.indianmilitary.info/2009/09/q-3.html


There are two of them, one on 15 Sept 2009 and the other on 18 Sept 2009.

Secondly, It is not humanly possible for me to answer every single query posted on the blog, I am a professional and please do not take my time for granted. If you have a persistent query, go to a private bank and find out the procedure, or better still call up the PCDA(P) in Allahabad. Do not ask me to work out a sweat so that you can have that siesta.

Just because I am relaxed with all kind of bombardments on this blog does not mean that I owe you something.

Thank You.

LT.COL.(RETD) K.B.MATHUR said...

Dear Navdeep ,As I wrote two days back that you are doing great service to people in a selfless manner .It pains me to read unreasonable comments by some people .How do people expect you to answer each and every individual querry .Very sad indeed .People with negative attitude do not deserve to use this blog .Only mature people with positive attitude should use this blog .

Anonymous said...

@ Navdeep

Firstly, the queries referred by you are not mine....

Secondly, your language 'siesta' etc is not in good taste - unless I am a bit old fashioned.

True you cannot answer each query nor are you obliged but presuming the other person is not sweating is not true. Having tried PCDA(P) innumerable times I tried taking your help. Maybe I made amistake...

Anyway, all the best for your professional pursuits which surely we appreciate is important

Navdeep / Maj Navdeep Singh said...

@Anony at 2.11

I apologise if the queries are not yours. But those are right there for all to peruse. And to top these two queries with additional two questions on the same subject would not make any sense, would it Sir ?

While I can provide broad answers to queries it may please be appreciated that it is extremely difficult for one single person who is in a demanding profession to reply to 200 mails in a day or to provide modalities on similar issues in detail or to moderate and post all comments on the blog. Sometimes I wonder if it was a good idea to have allowed the blog to take a life of its own. Perhaps I should have strictly moderated comments in the initial phases.

Anonymous said...

@ Navdeep

Agree and appreciate your thoughts.

No hard feelings please....Just when we loose all avenues, we approach you and expect a response...

Cheers!

Aditya said...

http://www.cisf.nic.in/RECRUITMENT_files/RECTT%20OF%20EX-SERVICE%20MAN.pdf

CISF still has an advertisement for Assistant Sub Inspector posted on its website, which requests applications from Naib Subedars to apply.

A naib subedar is in a higher pay grade than an ASI.

If anyone in the know, or in a position to apprise the authorities of the correct standing sees this, please do look into it.

Sugar man said...

Dear all,

I am amused watching all this fight between Indian mil,IAS,IPS .....etc.
I have deep respect for every uniformed individual who sacrificed himself for the sake of nation.
One question i would like to ask why are we complacent when it comes to national security.
It was said that china,Pakistan are inferior to Indian mil.but we suffered huge casualties even in the hands some unprofessional's.
So many police officers die in naxal attacks.But nothing changes.Why
The only reason I could find is Indian's as a race are highly Individual and self engrossed.They only care about things that concern them not others.So,you cannot expect our forces to be different.

Anonymous said...

My Dear Navdeep and All the Blogger Fraternity,

I am at apins to explain whatever sadstateof affirs I have observed.

I am pretty sure Navdeep as owner of the blog and a poineer in the "benefits to Srvices would have observed".

Look, as officers we were alway Non-Caring, not bothered and almost ignorant of what we should be getting and what our men under our command must be getting. Any one talking about these including our higher ups were frawned upon as "Baniyas". There was a faith and unsuspecting environment in the Armed Forces that the Accountant in CDA will interprete the rules for you and whatever he does is the best.

That faith and ubderstanding prevailled upto the highest echleons of the Armed Forces including amongst successive Chiefs and hiher leadership. IAS in MoD knows much more and better than them and what ever he was doing was in the National interest and better for the Armed Forces and the Country.

It is very unfortunate, sad, bad and unforgiving that the IAS lobby and the accountants of the IDSA took all advantage of the faith and successively betryed the faith. The situation todya is "Every thing they do is bad".

After all who has been responsible for this loss of faith and unresolved Confrotatation. I would say both, our higher echleons as also MoD parafernalia. The comulsions of "Competetive Bueracracies" must have been well understood by our bosses who caved in at all stages unsuspectingly or because of share incompetence.

At the ground level, we as officers are supposed to know and find out each and every thing about the Pay, perks and entitlements of our men we command first and then about ourselves. Calling someone a "baniya" because one cares for his entitlement is share absurdity and wrong attitude. In fact neglecting that is share negligence.

I am rudely surprised to find out the level of ignorance amongst serving AF officers as also the Retired ones about the ignorance on Rules and Regulations governing them includin Pay and Perks. If an officer does not kno it, he has no right to command.

We ourselves have provided opprtunities for our own dongardation. We are not firm because we are oblivious of knowledge of Rules and Regulations. We are not firm as to we have duabts about our place in the system and then in darkess we waver. Lack of firmness is due to our lack of knowledge and Competence.

So before Service officers blame others, they must improve on their knowledge. How many of you have taken on CDA (O) and confronted his staff and you are right and He is wrong. How many times has an officer bullicked a PAOR official for delay or wrong remittance to his comapny personnel.

If you can do it why crib. I know that firing the gun correctly is your priority, but welfare of your men (including his pay and perks) is eqaully your prime duty. One takes that oath while passing out.

The IAS in MoDand the IDAS men need to rubbed with their own salt. That salt happens to be Rules and Regulations. It is incumbant on all officers to know it better than others.

Navdeep is not the answer. Please do not ask him childish question which reflect very poorly on you. That shows where the root cause ouf exploitation of AF officers lie.

You all want to be equatted with IAS and IPS, well then prove worthy of it, at least at awareness level. If a DC starts banking on his PA (or his Company Clark), well he will be out in five days if not less.

Wake up...

Col K Thammayya Udupa (Retd) BOMBAY SAPPERS 109 ER said...

Dear Major Navdeep,
I am positive that you are aware of Mr Ashwani Kumar's fauji connection. But for the large number of followers of your blog, it may be of interest to bring out that he is a RIMCOLLian. No wonder, he feels that the Army should take on the drug menace.

Warm Regards,

Colonel K Thammayya Udupa (Retired)
The Bombay Sappers (109 RAPID (S) Engineer Regiment)

Aditya said...

With relevance to the article displayed above, please note the following article, which shows the implicit logisitical support militancy in many areas is receiving, through corrupt officials:

http://week.manoramaonline.com/cgi-bin/MMOnline.dll/portal/ep/theWeekContent.do?sectionName=Current+Events&contentId=5992033&programId=1073754900&pageTypeId=1073754893&contentType=EDITORIAL&BV_ID=@@@

Anonymous said...

@Navdeep,
Well done! The cbox was, of late, stooping to dismal depths. Now that it has been closed, please ensure it remains so for at least three months. Otherwise it shall not have the desired effect on the gentlemen responsible for its closure.

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous
(who wants to transfer his pension account to a private bank)

This form might be of some help to you.
http://www.pcdapension.nic.in/forms/disburseform7.pdf

Anonymous said...

Thanks Anonymous @ 6.07 PM - really appreciate the lead given by you. Shall certainly explore this further

IndianACE said...

I think that closing the Chat box was a good thing to do as the language being used recently was falling to extreme depths.

On the other hand, some of the enteries in the box provided upto date info/ latest web links of issues of interest for mil pers.

May I suggest, that a place can be created at which the bloggers can be permitted only to leave link to the web site(s)of interest.

Comments/ discussions on the issues may be left only through the regular " Leave your comment" box, so that it can be moderated by the owner.

Anonymous said...

dear navdeep sir,
I request you or any other reader to pls help me out in this.

when i got posted from gurdaspur to jaisalmer in feb 2008,jaisalmer was a non family stn,therefore i choose Delhi as my SPR and moved my family & baggage to delhi from gurdaspur and claimed for tpt charges of baggage and car from gurdaspur to delhi.

Subsequently after approx 10 months jaisalmer became a family stn with completion of Md Accn Project(MAP)in jan 2009.i also got a md accn alloted to me and moved my family,baggage & car from Delhi to Jaisalmer.

now when i sent a claim for tpt charges of my baggage & car from Delhi to Jaisalmer,to CDA,it has been returned by CDA stating that once i have choosen SPR i can not shift my family anywhere else before next posting and if i do so it is at my own risk and not at govt expense.

i request you or any other reader to pls tell me if if i am entitled for the a/m claim or not. i have enquired about it from many pers,though all of them have replied in affirmitive but no one could give any authority which could be reffered and quoted to CDA.
Question of moving family at one's own risk does not arise from the simple logic that such a move was carried out,not because of my pers interest but because of constraints that initially JAISALMER was not a family stn at the time of my posting from Gurdaspur.It became a family stn subsequently on completion of MAP for the first time approx 10 months after my posting from Gurdaspur to JAISALMER .As no one would like to miss an opportunity to keep his family with him where it is possible(for the reason well known to every one of us)especially when approx 2 yrs of my tenure at jaisalmer is still left.
.
If now i do not get tpt charges of my baggage & car from delhi to jaisalmer ,then i will be at a loss once again when i will be posted out of jaisalmer,because then CDA will only pass my claim from delhi(SPR)to next duty stn and not from jaisalmer.

therefore i request you or any other reader to pls help me out and pls tell me the appropriate authority which can be quoted to CDA.

Lt Col (Retd) KVS Choudhary said...

Dear Navdeep , Absolutely there is no doubt that you are doing a great service to all of us both serving and retired in a selfless manner . It pains me to read unreasonable comments by some. Very sad indeed. It is rather difficult to restrain Persons with negative attitude from using this blog. Be that as it may,I hope the chat box would reappear soon as it is is very informative. With Regars and Best Wishes.....Lt Col(Retd)KVS Choudhary

IndianACE said...

@ Anony 2.20 am

You are entitled for the claim. I have myself got the dues for a move to SPR when I was posted to Mumbai and wrote to Stn Cdr seeking permission to bring family to station.

The Stn Cell replied that entitled accn was not available at that point of time. So I moved family to SPR and filed the claim which was passed.

In due course the entitled accn was sanctioned. So I moved the family to Mumbai from SPR and filed the claim. It was passed too.

Now, I don't have any authority but I ensured that the two claims had a gap of six months between them. Must hae been that the dealing AO/ clerk was in a good mood!!


As an aside, does anyone know if there is any control/ oversight over the arbitrariness of the dealing staff at CDAO. How are AG Br and CDAO linked?

Col NR Kurup (Retd) said...

Dear Maj Navdeep,
Firstly, please do not encourage Anonymous writting. That is absolutely cowardise. If one does not have the guts to stand for what he is saying, he should not be given a place in this forum. You may not get sufficient time to moderate all the posts; but can control the entry by incorporating regisration and pass-word for entry to the chat box.

Yes Defence Forces can take on the Drug Mafia. But before that the IPS should accept that they are not capable. If they accept that tehy are not capable, they have no business to claim parity with Army ranks and pay and perks higher than DF.

umesh said...

dear anonymous@2:20pm
the claim is valid. in fact you can even change your spr once before you get posted out of the non-family station. I know because i did it. The authority to deny must be shown by the fellow who denies. Why must you run around and check out what may not even be available!!!

Anonymous said...

@anonymus 2.20.pm.

No doubt you are fully entitled to claim for move of your baggage and family at govt expence.While INDIANace has already given you the way to go about you must get back to CDAO accordingly.If things do not work out even then get in touch with Addl CDA or DCDA through DO letter.Their addresses are awailable on CDAO web site.

Problem with the lower level staff at CDAO appears to be to return the claim with vague reasons at the out set only so that they have less work to do.Shortage of staff or incompetence does not mean that you and me should not get our entitlements.

I D Sharma said...

Dear Navdeep,
during our times all annonimus Complaints were put in to dustbins. A writer who is afraid to reveal his identity lacks courage and a BAD fauji.Let such writings to remainn hidden as his identity is. Why clutter the valuable space for those who donot deserv it. May I suggest to Replace Annonimus by Coward in all such cases. Keep Your cool and continue regardless with your real social service. Jai Hind. COL I D Sharma (Retd), Noida.

warrior said...

@ anony 2.20 as already opined by few bloggers you should get re-imbersment of your claim from SPR to place of posting.when your station was declared a family station letter to this effect must have been issued by the Army HQ declaring it a family station and giving option to individuals for bringing the family.try to look for the letter and can quote that as authority

Rajababu said...

Dear navdeep

without getting into the semantics let me first congratulate u on the closure of chat box. it was long over due as it was becoming a sort of open slugfest. in fact despite the services sensitising the men and officers(very surpirsing to note many are so naive and immmature then waht can be expected out of men) not to discuss classified stuff in an open forum/blogs this was rampantly happening in the chat box. "Good riddance to bad rubbish".

secondly regarding your social service work(read fauji service) u must have heard that in fauj the donkey that takes the load keeps getting overburdened with more load. ur case has become just that. "kisi ka bhala karo toh gali sunne ko milta hai". any ways i admire ur spirit in going about answering to the best possible extent. BZ. keep it up.

LT COL P SRIVASTAVA said...

May I know the progress on the case of removal of linkage of full pension with 33 years’ service for Officers who retired between 01 January 2006 and 31 August 2008.

Ex-Sgt.P.Vigneshwar Raju said...

Maj.Navdeep sir, I am a regular visitor to your bolg.Its really so informative and useful to entire ex-service community. It is sad that the cbox was personilised. For the sake of one or two such persons do not stop such a noble service.

I have started a blog on the name of
"www.ex-sergeant.blogspot.com" kindly announce in your blog.