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Wednesday, May 20, 2009

Increase of pension of retired Lt Cols on grant of PB-4

There are indications that the increase of basic pension of Lt Cols to Rs 25,700 may be the first agenda point when the new incumbent takes his or her seat in the South Block. The said corrigendum may see the light by the end of this month, but as I always say, let’s keep our fingers crossed till it actually comes out in black and white.

The figure of Rs 25,700 has seemed mysterious to many. It simply comes about from the basic pension formula, that is, 50 % of Start of Scale (37400) + Applicable Grade Pay (8000) + MSP (6000).

There are voices amongst veterans which seem to indicate that there should be a difference of pensions between erstwhile Selection Grade and Time Scale Lt Cols. Please put such ideas to rest since pensions are always determined with current ranks / grades as the backdrop and today there is only one kind of Lt Col. As it is, this idea of differentiation is regressive and not a pretty thought at all and would lead to deprivation of a particular section of veterans who were not promoted to Selection Grade due to the steep pyramid of the forces. When people all around in other organisations are reaching PB-4 with GP 10000 with ease which later translates into higher pensions, some of our own veterans want to minimise the benefits and create a rank within the rank of Lt Col. Sad.

I also again request readers not to transmit individual mails on this issue or for calculation of emoluments / pay etc. My profession is too demanding to allow me the time to send separate replies. Such queries can be posted as comments to blog-posts and can be addressed by a cross-section of visitors.


digvijay said...

Well said Navdeep, I have been wanting to write this myself but coming from you it will have the correct effect on the individuals.Now you are the accepted wise one , what you write has many followers with great amount of sobering effect .

Anonymous said...

My effort to reason out and convince Maj Navdeep,the legal aspect and justification of having different starting pay and pension for Lt Col (TS), Lt Col (S), Col and Brig of pre 2006 vintage having failed, I shall be grateful if any discussion on this issue can be held in abeyance till the pension is announced lest it become a wrench. I request that this isssue be brought out again after the orders at least to have an accademic discussion.

Anonymous said...

Yes, Navdeep, it is sad. The Veterans should be grateful that they are getting pension as per PB-4. Period.

Ramani said...

Ego, Ego ,Ego!!
This appears to be the bane of the services.
Every person thinks he is superior to the other by virtue of having been in a "selection" Rank.
It is because of this that we become a laughing stock.I have never come across a single dissent or argument within the other "All India Services".Even the megagoliath the "Railways" doesnt spawn such venomous ravings.
I have found only Navdeep's logic and reasoning sound.
Ultimately the difference in pension between various Ranks is not all that much.
So "be happy with what you get and do not wory about the other guy"
should be the motto.

Bluemax said...

Dear Major Navdeep,

You have been doing excellent selfless service for both thr serving and veterans' fraternity.
Wouldn't the veterans be given the band of Rs. 38530/= as brought out by you on 20 apr 2009 ( Finally Papa Bravo 4 ------- )?

Kindly elucidate.


Warm regards,

TKS said...

"""When people all around in other organisations are reaching PB-4 with GP 10000 with ease which later translates into higher pensions, some of our own veterans want to minimise the benefits and create a rank within the rank of Lt Col. Sad."""




Anonymous said...

Let us hope & pray for the notification for revised minimum pension for all Lt Colonels as Rs 25700 pm.
Any considerations for any difference in pensions of Time Scale and Selection Grade are futile and meaningless.
We have been victims of very steep pyramid / less scope for promotions.
Many of us did not get Colonel (TS)as no provisions existed when we retired.
It is good that length of service required for promotion upto Colonel is reduced. our next generation is getting better treatment.
For all pensioners,justice demands ,that minimum pension should correspond to the minimum pay for the rank in the new pay band and NOT minimum pay of the new pay band for the rank.
Secondly,proportionate increase should be given for sevice more than 33 years (weightage should be at par as applicabe to the rank to arrive at the qualifying service)
-Lt Col AKJain (Retd)

K.M said...

Dear Maj Navdeep,

Thanks a lot for this information.

People like me appreciate your vaulable service and indomitable spirit towards the serving and retired officers. It is unfortunate that many service officers carry forward the burden of comparison between arms and services, fliers and non-fliers, selective and time-scale and so on. It is unfortunate. We have to change our mind-set.

Great service, indeed!

Wg Cdr(Veteran) Dr K M Vijayan

Anonymous said...

Well said Rank with in rank....This kind of attitude has done more harm to AF freternity at large then any thing else.Let us shed our false egos and not try to prove being superior by way of harming others amongst us.As for as a normal civilian is concerned he does not know any difference in various forms and categories of Lt Col/Col and now there is non either as far as pay is concerned.

Anonymous said...

Tht was a gud one Navdeep.

Not only veterans but even serving offrs are prey to this kind of thinking. It does not matter if I get less but my junior shuld always get much lesser than me!!!!!

Grow up Faujis' we need to introspect and think beyond our water hole/well ( as in kuyain ka mandak)

Jai Hind


Anonymous said...

What a tragedy! We just refuse to learn from our past mistakes.While all most all the All India Group A civil services are getting GP of Rs 10000 latest at 20 years we want to creat ranks with in a rank to feel superior.As it is by sticking to system of pay as per rank and not as per length of service most of us are not even reaching GP of 8700 even at 20 years.While the system needs an overhaul the mindset also does need to change completely.This blog site lets us know what is wrong and what will benefite us provite we want to learn.

Col P B

Anonymous said...


Well there are absolutely no difference between the so called Selection grade ltcols and Time scale. Those guys with the inflated air in them must also realise why did tyhey not make it Col. It is unfortunate some of them still think they are superior to others. Yes that's how we become a laughingstock. I became a Col only because I was at the right place and time and I had an opportunity to prove myself. That's all there is no difference between a selction grade ltcol and TS. Period.

Anonymous said...

If at all we take anything home from the fauj while hanging uniform its our "seniority", it seems!!!

Anonymous said...

Our obsession with ranks is so much that we are not satisfied with so many ranks in the army and we want to create ranks with in a rank.And higher ranks being elusive we want to feel superior to those holding similar rank by making categories. And not giving it up even after hanging the uniform.

Naren said...

Logically PB4 should be extended to all officers who have put in 20 years of commissioned service.As 4th pay commission created a running pay band of 2300 to 5100 with diff rank pay corresponding to current GP.
Some of us Faujis derive sadistic pleasure in denying our own,Look how we implement the ECHS or even the way we run our clubs.Why do we stop entry to our club in jeans at DSOI? After a swim the kids cannot have a cold drink in the TV room if wearing floaters!!
When do we grow up?

Anonymous said...

Simply,Navdeep said everything of a bias and prejudice that was destroying the inherent strength of ARMED FORCES.
Many elder veterans and serving senior officers can learn wisdom and simple truth from NAVDEEP who is probably half their age.

Anonymous said...

Most of the vews expressed is too correct in their own concepts. Please come to mother earth. There are rank within rank every where. Someone not agreeing does not change the present satus. In IAS, a Sub Collector is junior to Collector in EVERY RESPECT. No one claim that there could not be diffeent ranks within the IAS. In IPS, an ASP is junior to SP . Even in civil, a clerk is junior to the Superintendent. In Army too a Maj Gen is junior to a Lt Gen even if a particular Maj Gen has more service than Lt Gen . It is a different concept that there should not be any rank by selection; but only by number of years of service. Good eough. But till that is implemented, the existing system stands despite disagreement of those who refuce to perform and pest with claim for Col (TS)or Brig (TS) or Gen (TS). Lt Col is a rank. But Lt Col (SL), Lt Col (TS), Lt Col of AMC/ADC/RVC/MNS are all different with different status and pay. Till Nov 2004, a Lt Col (TS) of 30 years is subordinate to a Lt Col (S) IN EVERY RESPECT including pay, pension status and seniority.Even myself had Lt Col (TS) with more than 7 years senior to me in service working under me.That was the penalty they have pay for not working to the satisfaction of their seniors. When Lt Col is made no more by selection but by TS of 13 years, it does not mean they are equal to Lt Col (S) who are now equevelent to Col. If after selection by IV Selection Board one become Col now it does not mean earlier Lt Col (S) is downgraded to Lt Col (TS).Irrespective of what others feel they will defenitely refuce to be brought below or at par with Lt Col (TS). Still we are a democracy and judiciary and justice prevail in this country. No court of law will support this. If you remember, there was separate rank pay and pension for Lt Col (S) and Lt Col(TS) in earlier pay Commissions. Lt Col (S) is bracketted with Col and Brig whereas Lt Col (TS) is bracketted with Major. Even now PB-4 is given for Lt Col to Brig. It does not mean that all to start at the same pay of 37400, It will take time to settle though all might start at 37400 now. KIndly do not mix up the imaginations of lazy mind with hard facts of life.

(Of cource like my earlier posts of views different from the majority posters, this also is not likely to be posted. This is therefore for information of Maj Navdeep who also seems carried away with certain baseless views)

Anonymous said...

It is this sick mentality that when you are in service you can not see your jounior having the same privalages and when you retire you want to continue the same way and given option, in your graveyard also you would not like your junior to have place in same graveyard,have ruined the instution of Armed forces.

Anonymous said...

C0Ls and Cols{TS} are having the same basic pay.What is the doubt in case of Lt Cols, in the minds of few officers who think they are
special types who came from the heaven,just because they could manage the so called selection grade ? !!
Height of it !!
May God bless them !!

Navdeep / Maj Navdeep Singh said...

@Anony at 11.30

The concluding part of your post amply reflects your attitude in life.

Don't live a life based on assumptions and presumptions.

And if you are so keen on expressing your views, kindly lift the curtain of anonymity and come clean.

Thank You.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 1130 am/21 May 09 is displaying his poor upbringing.He could not be blamed for his childhood inheretence but he is definateley blamed for not correcting himself after his long servce in a decent atmosphere. In any case we need not to look in to his past to get the answer.

An enemy with in. Time will not be his salvation.

Anonymous said...

@anonymous 21 may/11.30.Without being surcastic I will request you to change your reasoning which may not help you but may certainly harm many .And that will not make you a better paid person.Please think big and come out of the well into a pond at least and see wider intrest of people.In one go you want to undo all the hard earned benefits and want to push some people down so that you can feel superior.


Ramani said...

Dear Navdeep,
ref anonymous @11.30 on 21 may,
although you have (and some others) have given him a fitting reply. i think You should block such blogs.similarly ENR's comments in the chat box that a ltcol(ts) 7 years junior to him served under him.
Like I said elsewhere this stigma of timescale is only in the services.Even in other depts personnel do get passed over , but is not made an issue.
That is why in the Services, you have the provision of Premature Retmt. It is only those whose confidence level is low stick on.
And those who quit early have gone on to better pastures.
glad that people like ENR are no more in service.the heartburn they they are facing over their juniors(otherwise seniors)
getting equal pension is their just REWARD.

PRAMOD said...

Navdeep, You are doing a fantastic job and hats off to you. Ignore the Cynics and Critics and carry on the good work.

Lt Col ( Retd ) Pramod Krishna

Lt Col G Kameswara rao retd) said...

I suggest that Anonymous comments be rejected for posting. further, only constructive thoughts which could contribute to improvements in the existing system be accepted and posted. why do you want the rest of the countrymen to see dirty linen being washed by the faujis? Do we see such comments by the civvystreet about themselves ? please put a stop to this type of self-degradation by the faujis. Human nature of one-upmanship cannot be overcome whether in civvies or wardi;but let us not expose our weaknesses to the universe.

Anonymous said...

@annonymous at 11.30

"That was the penalty they have to pay for not working to the atisfaction of their seniors."


I think here you are wrong because it was not the working to satisfaction of seniors rather it was the licking to satisfaction of the bosses which is must now in all the organisation

Gold said...

Excellent work Navdeep. i have been following your blog for a longtime now and am thankful to some of my friends who referred this to me. Its sad to see that the service officers irrespective of the service continue to believe that they have achieved something in life only when its available to them, which should be denied to their juniors. This sad and distortted sense and mentality unfortunately stems from our Cadets time especially NDA wherein the the second each and every cadet looks forward to the next term for the priviliges he will be allowed. Fisobedience of seniors generally results in the loss of priviliges. We are like a frog in the well and unfortunately unwilling to learn from our experiences. how does it matter what some of your colleagues get till such time it is not at your cost. Govt has not decided to restrict the total outflow and if everybody benefits you should be happy for all. Dont live on the premise that `I am happy because my neighbour is unhappy' It si not relative. You should be happy and if all around you are happy its that much better. Look at the IAS....their approach to all such issues is that let us first give more to our juniors and then automatically the seniors would be provided a higher benefits. We on the other hand are todey cribbing about officers achieving Lt Col and equiv in thirteen years that Lt Col was a big amn earlier. Be happy for him. Those times were different and the payscales and respect of services in the civil world was at an all time high. today the world has become very materialistic and you want to be happy only if somebody missed his promotion not because he didnt deserve it but probably fate prevented him from getting such opportunities. come on once you have retired just be happy with what you get and dont carry your ranks and throw them everywhere. Invariably people snigger at such officers. You will probably gain more respect if you change your attitude. A civilian respects a Lt Col(TS) as much as a Lt Col(S) as they dont know the diff and the cobwebs are only in our minds. BTW I am a serving officer who is a Col equiv and not affected personally by the issue.

kirpal said...

It is ssad that some people are trying to differentciate within the rank.
I understand this differenciation while serving. Is such an ego justified at this age after retirement?

Anonymous said...

Dear Navdeep,

In your blog dated 20th May, you had said that there will be no difference in pensions of Lt Cols TS and S. But, the notification does show a difference between the two. Is the issue on parity under consideration? Any comments?

Shashikant Oak said...

Dear Navdeep,
As is seen from thefootnote to 21 April 2009 letter aboout PB 4 applicable to serving officers. MSP is applicable only from 1 Sep 2008 without arrears.Is it not therefore incorrect to grant pensioners Rs.25,700/- (Which includes Rs 3000/- as MSP) WEF 01-01-2006?

Anonymous said...

Why are government servants of all kinds, railwaymen, defence personnel, and others such as those working with LIC, airlines, the banks, etc., always complaining? I am a highly qualified professional civilian without the tenure security of all those mentioned above, my salary was always lower than them, yet I never grumbled. It is so distasteful.