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Friday, May 29, 2009

The banality of the argument that ‘the end of scale determines seniority of posts’

Time and again, civilian officers posted in mixed organisations have raised an issue that the end points of (4th and 5th CPC) scales are the benchmark to determine the status and seniority of posts. And while comparing such scales and presenting this argument to the govt, they have not even been adding the rank pay into military scales.

This argument is faulty and care should be taken by the defence bureaucracy not to heed to such baseless articulation since at times in the past, the junior officialdom has managed to convince senior civil servants of some really silly logic.

Firstly, rank pay was a part and parcel of the basic pay of military officers as has been umpteen number of times explained on this blog. If we take the ‘end of scale determines seniority’ argument too seriously without including the rank pay, then an SE during the 5th CPC era becomes not only senior to his actual counterpart (Lt Col) but also to a Col and a Brig. And - not to miss this - an SE becomes junior even to a Second Lieutenant by the same logic during the 4th CPC era since at that point in time, an SE had an end of scale of Rs 5000 whereas a 2/Lt had an end of Rs 5100.

Secondly, the ‘end of scale’ criterion wherever used (such as Classification of Posts as Groups A/B/C/D) has explicitly been provided for ‘civil posts of the union’ and hence has no ramification on military posts. The ambiguous DoPT communication often used by certain sections of officers to buttress their claim is also applicable only to civil posts.

Thirdly, even on the civil side, this ‘end of scale determines seniority’ theory does not hold good as has been projected. Civil scales were arranged during the 5th CPC from S-1 (lowest) till S-34 (highest). Here, while S-15 had an ending of 13500, the higher scales of S-16, S-18, S-19 had the respective ends of 9000, 9550 and 10975, all lower than S-15.

Fourthly, the following should junk this theory forever. During the currency of the 5th CPC, a Subedar Major of Group Z had an end of scale of 9400 while a Subedar of Group X had an end of 9790, now can this be used to imply that a Sub Maj (Z) is junior to a Sub (X) ? Absolutely NO !!!. Taking this further, Hav (Z) had an end of 4525 while a Sepoy (X) had an end of 4650, now does a Sepoy (X) take precedence over Havaldar (Z) by saying that his top is higher than the Havaldar’s ?.

The sooner we nip such redundant arguments with cold hard logic, the better.


Harry said...

@Maj Navdeep


This argument was used by our 'friends' from IDAS, IDSE, BRO etc to 'conveniently suit' their argument about their perceived superiority over Lt Col vs SE debate !! It can easily be blown to pieces and as you have demonstared this argument is full of HOLES!!

Good Job sir, yet again !

GREF Officer said...

The whole argument of equivalence of GREF Ranks vs Army Ranks can only be based on equivalent jobs or command and control structure IN BRO and nothing else. The Army officers have always got paid more for doing exactly the same job as their GREF counterparts working shoulder-shoulder in the same unit. This has cause unnecessary heart burn and a feeling of discrimination amongst the GREF officers which the army officers working in BRO have never appreciated or understood. Sad to say that even DGBR a Lt. Gen who is supposed to look after the welfare of GREF Officers / Personnel has perpetuated this wrong with no remorse. He should have done what the Service Chiefs did for their brother officers - example PB4 for Lt. Col etc but no. Even the post of ADGBR held by a GREF Officer has been kept vacant after retirement of the last incumbent. These are just a few of the numerous examples that I know of. If the Army officers truly were "gentlemen" and displayed their much vaunted OLQ, they would have truly treated their GREF colleagues as "Brother Officers" and the organization would have been much better of and all these problems would not have taken place. Remember the old adage - Equal Pay for equal work - which the army officers are unable to comprehend.

Back to equivalence -

OC of a RCC used to be a Major or a EE. Now it is a Lt. Col or an EE. So despite the unfair pay difference between a Lt. Col and EE, they are equivalent since they are doing essentially the same job and therefore they are equivalent.

Task Force Commander used to be a Lt. Col or SE. Now it is Col and SE with a Lt. Col or EE as 2IC. So given that a Lt. Col is essentially a 2IC to a SE who is a Commander TF, how can a SE be equivalent to Lt. Col when he is doing the job of a Col. So logically a SE is equivalent to a Col. Equating a SE to a Lt. Col would be like equating a Lt. Col to a Col.

There are numerous other examples like this demonstrating the true equivalence of ranks - SE / Col, EE / Lt. Col by logic - which is equivalent jobs!

The army officers reading this blog may not quite understand this but thankfully the 6th CPC understood it and ratified it. Of course the army gets the MSP to essentially do the same work as GREF which the GREF does not get. If the concept of Equal Pay or Equal Work was applied then it would have been different and the army officers working in BRO starting from DGBR would have lobbied the same pay and perks for their GREF brethren instead of fighting them and denying their legitimate and fair dues and then complain of GREF being a demoralized force. The attitude of the army officers towards their GREF colleagues is like of the erstwhile British officers over their Indian colleagues - the sad part is that it is taking place even after 60 years of Independence.

I hope there is at least one army officer who can understand this and impresses upon his brother officers to treat people in GREF and other organization in the same way as they would like to be treated.

Navdeep / Maj Navdeep Singh said...

@GREF Officer

Good you brought this one up.

A post tenable by a GREF or an MES Asst Engineer (Group-B) is also tenable by an Asst Executive Engineer (Group-A), so does it mean that we start equating AEs with AEEs ? In a district, an offr with GP 6600 as well as GP 7600 and sometimes even GP 8700 (and in UP even GP 10000) holds the post of a DM, does it mean they should be granted equal status and a pay cut should be imposed on them because they are doing an equal job. There are umpteem number of examples wherein offrs of various grades from different cadres are posted on similar appointments.

Please use these arguments someplace else (such as the lower echelons of the BRDB - your favourite) where the nuances of administration are not fully understood or are interestingly twisted. You've knocked the wrong door my dear Sir.

And for your very kind information, the post of an OC RCC is still tenable by a Major from the Army and EE from the GREF side and same is the case of a GE. The Army tries its best to post Majors but due to non-availability and shortage of Majors, sometimes Lt Cols are posted per force. I think to break your argument, the ansswer lies in posting SEs as OC RCCs and Indep GEs, that should kill this controversy once and for all.

Raghubir said...

When one does not guard one's rights or honour as has been happening - all sort of problems crop up.End of scale theory fails on the very inception because for Brig the time span was just 4 or 5 yrs in the fifth CPC scales. How can one compare the end at 5 years versus 10-15 yrs?

Thankfully there is much awakening now & every one will think many a time before pushing down.

Anonymous said...

I think being part of GREF unit for last one year I can confidently vouch for the fact that I being an Army officer never felt out of place. However there have been numerous instances heard of which speak otherwise. The gentleman is talking of equal pay without realizing the fact that it is GREF offrs who are being paid more than Army offrs. They are paid SDA where as we are even being denied CI Ops allowance being in CI Area. However it is folly on our part that Lt Cols are being posted under SEs and simultaneously equivalency is also claimed. We have faultered everywhere. This org was raised for Army but now they have started claiming superiority over us only. Also take the example of MNS. The ranks were given to accord respect in male dominated AFs. However now they too are claiming equivalence and in-fact demanding salutes. Its our pathetic know-how of the civilian environment and self centric short sightedness of our superior officers which has landed us in this muck now. Every Tom wants to equate himself with us. The day is not far when we will get equated with Class B officers. Its time our hierarchy wakes up and initiates corrective actions. It’s now or never. Please believe me there is lot of under current flowing against us and sooner we realize better it is.

Anonymous said...

The new generation officers of paramilitary, BRO, IDES, DRDO and other sister organisation have started competing with us. Without realising that our role is different than them.

We come under military acts, most of us retire at a much younger age, have by and large a very disturbed life, not in a position to leave the organisation on our will and a very steep pyramid for promotions.

The msp and few additional perks looses its significance when we compare it to overall pay package drawn by us in our service life vis a vis our civilian counter parts due to our low retirement age.

It is sad the sister organisations closely working with us are not able to understand our this part. Probabley when they interact with us they see our better part and see the perks of fraction of us who reaches to senior positions and retires at almost close to 60.

Anonymous said...

The equivalence issue by GREF offr is not based on any proper logic. While equating one should consider may things ie entry level training,the added responsibilities of an army offr like He can be moved any type of assignment like war,works, training, instructor, NCC, TA,DRDO,DGBR,adm etc and serve under Full Army Act and perform duties sincerely (He does not proceed on indefinite leave when posted in insensitive appts where as many GREF Offr remains on long leave when posted in staff but on duty when as OC RCC/Cdr/CE). GREF is surviving because of Army pers who balances all wrongs done by GREF pers in day 2 day working. Further Army has different promotion policies, retirement age which should also be given added weightage considered . Army Offrs also forgo perks/ allces/liberties of Civs which GREF offrs enjoy.SO where is equivalence just on Job?.OC RCC can be done by EE only where as Army Maj can do it in much better way. Lastly Army by virtue of being Main force should always get precedence over all other services.

Anonymous said...

@GREF officer: It is the decency of the Army that you speak thus. Try the same with the IAS/IPS and you will be like the State cadre officers vs IAS or the CPO/PMF vs IPS. You will left to rot at the field level. Just because the Army treats you well don't try to take advantage. It is shocking to visit the site of the IDES where they even have a notice where the officers boycott the farewell of an outgoing E-inC to show their resentment _ and people like you implore us to display our OLQ and treat you well. I keep telling MES/BRO/CPO/PMF & the IAS & IPS - don't push it. You will be the looser.

Anonymous said...

well said...

Ramani said...

Equal pay for equal work is all very well.But then the liability does not end there.
An officer of the corps of engineers after a tenure in MES is liable to go back and face the Music of combat liability(isking life and limb and peace).This is not the case with a civilian in MES who continues to rotate within the organizaton.
It is this that differentiates between the two.Will the civilian accept and risk his life and limb in a similar manner. He will not and is also not expected to.
Hence comparisons of this sort is meaningless unless the overall picture is taken.
The same goes for MES,GREF,DRDO and similar orgs.

Penmil said...

Longer scales in civil services were devised to ensure that employees did not stagnate while residing in the same scale for 35 years are more.
Nothing more should be interpreted from the length or the end point of a scale than that.
On the contrary military scales were always very short( with exception of the 4th CPC award), since either a soldier is promoted in that span or is retired based on his lower retirement age.
Therefore it is not logical to ever compare/contrast these two systems of scales.
The same goes for comparing the syetem of computing the pensions.
What is sauce for the goose need not be sauce for the gander, in all situations.
Even the 6th CPC has observed that the length of a scale is not of relevance.
As Maj. Navdeep brought out, in the award by the 6th CPC, there are many instances in the civil where shorter scales were merged with longer scales.There was never a chance to merge two scales in the military system of pay scales.
For example the report says at " Para 2.2.19,..............The scale of Rs.6500-200-6900
was an intermediary scale identical to the scale of Rs.6500-200-10500, albeit with a shorter span.
Since the length of a pay scale is not very relevant in the revised scheme of running paybands, no rationale existed for retaining the scale of Rs.6500-6900 as a distinct scale".
Yet, the end point of a scale is brought in when ever one wishes to beat the military.

Anonymous said...


What you have tried to explain is quite logical. Even within Army, A Company Commander, could be a Maj, Capt or Lt. Like wise a Commanding officer could be a Col or a Lt Col. No one even in the wildest dreams, thinks that since they are doing the same job - they are all equal...

Anonymous said...

Fellow GREF officer"s point is well and adequately answered by Maj Navdeep.It is only the compulsions of cadre management that LT Col and Cols are sometimes posted as GE and SE respectively and as said by Major Navdeep no bar is there to post SE as GE.This also proves two points that there is a shortage of officers in the army at Maj,Capt level and Army piramid is so broad at the base that while promoting officers to Lt Col /cols rank army does not have so many slots at higher places.But does that mean that army officers must continue in same rank for years even when unfortunatey for right or wrong reasons pay in army is linked to rank unlike the civil stream including GREF.

My dear friend from GREF also needs to keep in mind that Army officer posted to an appointment in GREF also a soldier which GREF officer is not.While GREF officer is calable of appoints in GREF only ,army officer being mre versatile , is suitable for a variety of jobs in army and also in other organisations like GREF,MES,DRDO etc etc.Thus army officer has wider prospective,training and horizen then equially placed GREF officer and deserves pay as per his profile and may be rank.

And those at helm of affairs in AFs also need to rethink on the need to delink pay incl Grade pay from rank and have it as per length of service as in civil stream.The prevailing system is bound to have doubts and even heartburns inminds of civilians in mixed orgs.

Col P B

Anonymous said...

Maj Navdeep has yet again brought out the hollow foundation on which the arguments of IDAS and BRO are built.hope that our top brass is listeining

Anonymous said...

Interesting to read this blog. How dishonest we can be together. I am searching an AF/CIVIL officer who will enlighten us the exact scale of pay of Lt Col in 1937 and that of SE. Also of COL and IG. It has been time and again stressed here that head of police of a state in 1937 was equal to Col. What was minimum service laid down in 1937 for COl and for IG and for SE and Lt Col. Why Dear Maj Navdeep has to be so selective and serective to open correct info. I am sure he will have it or some other officer of AF will have it.Requested an honest info in full not comments which from all sides are dishonest on this blog.

GREF Officer said...

Last but not the least, I also appeal to my brother army officers to not fight with us and try to justify the discrimination heaped on us. As colleagues in uniform under the army act,we are on the same mission. Let us give each other the mutual respect and fight the IAS in a united way. Let them not win by Divide and rule. The way to do that would be to recoginze the GREF too is an integral part of the Armed Forces in uniform under the Army Act and work shoulder to shoulder with the army for national defense and deserve all the pay, benefits, status etc, which are accorded to army and the equivalences respected.

If such step is followed, I can bet that we will be able to fight the IAS together and that will benefit all of us. Let all thr uniformed services unite and fight a common battle and not fight amongst ourselves. When we can fight together in war, why not in peace for our welfare and betterment?

Does this make sense to you Major Navdeep? Please also remember the we GREF officers being in uniform and Army Act, are a disciplined force like the army and cannot form unions like MES etc. We also face the same Field Conditions away from our families etc under hostile conditions just like the Army. In fact our condition is perhaps worse since we are constantly posted in Field Areas except in DGBR HQ with reduced ration scale unlike the army who get peace postings after field deployment.

I consider the army officers posted with me in my unit to be my brother officers and expect the same feeling from them - is that wrong of me to expect that? After all we are all in the same mission together. We GREF are also quite different than MES etc. who are civilians with unions and are not unformed or under the army act unlike us. The culture and ethos of GREF is like that of the army and we expect to be treated by the army also in the same manner. We too would like the izzat which you so crave for. hope you understand and appreciate our stance. Thank you.

Harry said...


Interesting to see you sing a different tune after Maj Navdeep's sound rebuttal of your earlier rants !

GREF Officer said...

This was all along my stance - no question of singing a different tune Harry. I did rebut Navdeep's rebuttal with 2 other posts - need to split them since these posts have a character limit. Unfortunately they were not posted - perhaps the truth was too hard to handle or my logic could not be counter reasoned and that it why perhaps it was not posted. Won't go into it.

Anyway, just wanted you all to see our view point that's all. Remember one can always agree to disagree and but one should be able to project one's views without being abusive or using foul language.

Hope you all appreciate my stance and in conclusion again all I can say is that let us all brother officers in uniform under army act who are not allowed to form unions etc. like the MES fight together to get our dues and izzat from IAS who have suppressed all of us. Let us not try to suppress each other and let the IAS win by divide and rule. Just wanted you all to be a little sensitive to what we GREF feel. How many GREF officers want their sons to join GREF unlike army officers who want their sons to join their regiments? Answer - None. Why is that? Since GREF officers feel the discrimination and are tired of being treated as 2nd Class citizens in their own organization and many of us in BRES Group A Direct have leave the service or retire after 20 years and there is a shortage of Group A Direct Engineer Officers. Does that not reflect this position?

All the best to all of us and may we all get our "Izzat" back and not fight but support each other. I am very happy that Lt. Cols got their PB4 after 14 years along with MSP etc. I do not see why you would not want the same be accorded to a EE doing the same job in GREF as what a Lt. Col does there and make it Equal Work for Equal Pay enshrined in our constitution which we all are sworn to uphold? What is the problem?

Perhaps Navdeeps answer is that Lt. Cols should not be posted as EEs but that is the way it is going to be as per AVSC causing a downgrading of Lt. Col rank, treat us the way you would like to be treated. After all previously in the eyes of the jawan, a Lt. Col used to be a CO Sahab of a battalion but now he is just a 2IC sahab or a Company Commander thanks to downgrading of the rank by Army. The SE on the other hand was and still remains a Commander Sahab in the eyes of the Jawan like Col now. recognize that a Lt. Col working as a 2IC or a OC RCC is required to Salute both a SE and a Col Commander TF as per army act to maintain military discipline. Why would a Lt. Col salute a SE if they were both equivalent and why is a Lt. Col placed under a SE if they are equivalent? The answer is because they are not anymore thanks to army's downgrading the Lt. Col. rank after AVSC and that is the core of the problem.

I also appeal to Navdeep to see our view point and also extend to us the same degree of support that he is extending to the Army Officers as we work under more or less the same conditions and have the same culture and ethos and are both being downgraded by IAS. Our main adversary is the IAS - Indian Avatar Service and let us fight this common adversary with mutual respect and support for each other as brother officers and not fight each other to help this IAS lobby in their own agenda. Jai Hind!

Navdeep / Maj Navdeep Singh said...

@GREF Officer

Your point is well taken but please do tell me as to why shouldn't a DC / Collector / DM or an SP / DCP / SSP be granted the same pay for equal work. Why is it that an offr with GP 6600, 7600, 8700 and even 10000 is posted on the same appt in the civilian set-up ? What about the concept of equal pay for equal work ???

It is commonplace in the annals of administration to find different offrs from various cadres possessing different ranks and grades occupying the same appointment. No big deal.

EE NFSG can never be granted PB-4 since Lt Cols have been accepted to be above the Junior Administrative Grade (called STS NFSG in Central Engineering Services).

I also find nothing wrong with the Indian Administrative Service (IAS) and I differ with many of the readers of this blog in that aspect. It is the lower bureaucracy that is to be blamed and not the IAS.

Anyway, it doesn't serve well to wash dirty linen in public. Administration and service jurisprudence is just not that simplistic in nature.

Anonymous said...

Dear Maj Navdeep i expect an honest disclosure of Rank, length of service and pay scale by you in 1937 based on which you have deliberated on various issues.Pl be honest and quate refernce of AI/AO/Rules etc. Thanks

Navdeep / Maj Navdeep Singh said...


There are no 'dishonest' statements on this blog my friend.

Hinding behind namelessness and posting anonymous posts time and again disguised as different persons is in fact 'dishonesty'.

Having said that, the length of service requirement as per the old WoP of 1937 is available on this blog already. Seek and thou shall find.

GREF Officer said...

Thank you Major Navdeep - glad you see some merits in my points

Now the question of SP / DCP / SSP / DM etc. collecting Different Grade Pay - if they are truly doing the same job they should collect the same pay as per Equal Pay for Equal Work. Are they all doing the same job since different districts have different sizes - population etc. entailing different levels of responsibility along with different GP?

It may be commonplace in the annals of administration to find different officers from various cadres possessing different ranks and grades occupying the same appointment. But that does not make it right or fair if the appointments entail the same amount of responsibility as I explained above. Justifying this on GREF would be like it is OK for me to steal since somebody is committing dacoity - no big deal!

GREF EE NFSG should have been granted PB-4 like Lt Cols along with MSP etc. which the DGBR failed to do so unlike COAS. Lt. Col has been accepted to be above the Junior Administrative Grade (called STS NFSG in Central Engineering Services) even though they do the same job level as EE after all the efforts of the COAS and you and NOT by the Pay Commission. The same effort should have been made by DGBR for his EEs but unfortunately he FAILED us there. Thankfully we have the new system now that we can reach up to Lt. Gen HAG GP within 2 years of IAS - so no big deal anymore.

There is nothing wrong with the Indian Administrative Service (IAS) or any other service for that matter except that IAS seem to be garnering all the top posts not because they necessarily have the most professional competence but because they are IAS. You do have a right to differ with many of the readers of this blog in this aspect but I do not believe that the lower bureaucracy that is to be blamed - they are simply signing / carrying out the orders of their Masters - Politicians and IAS who have made the decision.

Agree with you that, it doesn't serve well to wash dirty linen in public. Let is support each other and respect each other. Navdeep, I am counting on your support in the same manner as the army officers do as a fellow brother officer in uniform under the army act with the same ethos and culture of the army.

Anonymous said...

Maj Navdeep, have you noticed, the remark by GREF Officer."... Thankfully we have the new system now that we can reach up to Lt. Gen HAG GP within 2 years of IAS - so no big deal anymore ...".Maj Navdeep, we in Armed Forces, will we be left out be it MACP or Nonfunctional financial upgradation? We sincerely request you to take up your case with your proximity to higher echlons and with your logic, so that we in Armed Forces also benefit and are not left out. Thanks for the tremendous help and service, till date. Please do keep up the good work, for our sake.

GREF Officer said...

I support Anonymous and other army officers concern about being left out in terms of MACP or aor Nonfunctional financial upgradation. I too request you to take up their case with your proximity to higher echelons and with your logic, so that the Armed Forces also benefit and are not left out.

As one of all the GREF Officers who has faced discrimination and 2nd Class Status in one's own organization, I feel the empathy and the pain of my army brethren. I just hope and pray that you Navdeep and other army folks do the same and help us in addressing our genuine concerns like MSP etc. and accept the rank-equivalence issued by the Govt. and accepted by the court with grace and dignity and not fight and subjucate us anymore.

I as a senior GREF officer have never treated any subordinate Army Officer / PBOR working under my command any differently than a GREF officer / Subordinate and have excellent relationships with a lot army personnel both Officer and PBOR. They also understand our position and have the empathy for us. I only have a problem with those army officers like DGBR and others who seem to think that it is OK to perpetuate the wrong on us and use the army act to do so which is wrong - period! They seem to forget that the welfare of the country and welfare of their men under their command come before their own welfare!

Personally I think the only obstacle to the MACP or or Nonfunctional financial upgradation for army is not the govt. / IAS / civilians but the Gens who after getting their share will try to deny this to their own juniors as they are wont to do.

Realize though that with a MSP of and other perks not available to civilians, the army already has the edge despite the NFSG upgrade over equivalent civilians. Will the army be willing to trade the MSP with NFSG if they are asked by the govt?

Thank you Navdeep and kindly keep us GREF in mind and extend your support and yeoman support as you are providing to army your proximity to higher echelons and with your logic, so that we in GREF also benefit and are not left out. Personally I would prefer that DGBR, E-n-C, COAS etc. take up the GREF cause than force us to go to Babu's / Politicians or courts - it is not a healthy thing to do so. Unfortunately sometimes we feel compelled to do so since the powers - DGBR has shown his total insensitivity towards this and perpetuate the wrong inflicted on us. May I request you Navdeep to please help us by approaching the DGBR , E-n-C, COAS etc. and other folks of influence to help is in getting our legitimate demands like MSP etc. addressed or have someone counsel the DGBR to do the right thing? We - the entire GREF shall be forever grateful to you for all your help and you will have 50,000 GREF giving you duas. I wish I could sign my name but am afraid of the consequences thanks to army act. Maybe after I retire, I too will start a forum like this - more the merrier and will support all and not discriminate based on color of uniform in getting their legitimate dues and of course Izzat - the most important thing for anybody in uniform who is expected to give up his life for the motherland. Thank you again Navdeep for all your help and support for the unformed community.

Anonymous said...

I am an employee of GREF. I wish to ask a few questions to Maj Navdeep;
1. Is there any other organisation in this country which is governed by two rules?? then u should know GREF is one - CCS Rules + certain provisions of Army act made applicable. This means that when a welfare is sought to the govt, we are told that we are civilians and not entitled for facilities applicable to AF. At the same time, for the purpose of disciplinary action, we are told that u will be punished under army act. ("Fauj mein aisa hota hai")

2. BRO headed by Lt Gen of the Army. Has this Lt Gen taken any measures in the past atleast once honestly to improve the service condition of the GREF employees? They are treated just like low class people and not even humans. Where has the army's ethos of fulfilling the jawans requirement first gone??

Anonymous said...

In 6th CPC It has clarified that GREF Can have their independently code of rules, but after compleating of two year there is no such initiation has ordered by HOD. An opinion asked from DGBR for conversion in to army justify that army personel willing to do job with GREF or showing unabillity for developing new code. In both above condition the benefits of GREF officer,s and personel is going to ruined. Another one more question that why not the officers of another armed forces like (Navy and Air force ) are posted in place of army personel. One another policy letter come into knowledge that use the BRO in place of GREF, may I ask that from when the BRO has come into existance.

Eagle said...

Equal work equal rank equal pay,etc. In the staff at Project HQ, SO1 (EME) is a Lt Col in some projs and called SO1. In other projs it is SE FS and called dir EME. Are they not equal now ?Ironically, there is a Lt Col in larger projects with even three Task Forces and a a SE FS in very small projects with only one or at the max two Task Forces. Who's is working more? Where is the equality of work and status now? There is no post equal to Col in GREF cadre. Without any doubts, SE is eqvt to Lt Col and EE is eqvt to maj. What say?

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

@Maj Navdip, The top brass of the army keeps yelling that they are in shortage of officers. It is my humble request that army hq withdraw all army officers posted in GREF and use their services as soldiers. Why are the army officers so keen in getting posted to GREF again and again? If you guys leave GREF it will be a great blessing to us. I am not writing all other issues here which obviously you all know very well.

Anonymous said...

Nothing should be discussed after this. Two different cadres dont you feel ashamed of fighting for the money or pay leaving aside ur country