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Friday, April 24, 2009

UPDATED : Congrats to Lieutenant Generals, orders for upgradation of 33% Lt Generals to HAG+ issued

Rejoice if you have three stars on your car or collar or flag.

33% of Lieutenant Generals are now officially in Higher Administrative Plus (HAG+) Grade.

The exact modalities on the percentage of officers upgraded to HAG+ would be released soon. Officers are expected to be upgraded to the new grade by seniority irrespective of Arm / Service.

The countdown for improvement of pensionary benefits for PBOR is also on.



Harry said...

@ Maj Navdeep

Sir, even though it is some 'POSITIVE' news, lets not go ga ga over it as yet. Why should there be a particular percentage laid on upgraded Lt Gens ?? It should be all Lt Gens. Remember Lt Gens used to be senior to state DGPs earlier when DGPs used to wear rank badges equivalent of Maj Gens. ALL LT GENS SHOULD GET HAG+ GRADE. PERIOD. BTW, now Lt Gen rank will get spread over three civ equivalences viz. Lt gen (w/o HAG+), Lt Gen HAG+ and Lt Gen Army Cdr/Vice Chief Grade. Is it any good?

Anonymous said...

The govt is following the concept of take 100 rs and then give back 50 rs and say look I ve heard ur problem and so now feel happy.




Unknown said...

@ Maj Navdeep

3 Questions.

Why has only half the rank pay of Lt Cols ie 800 been taken into account while fixing the pay in PB4 by MoD?

Is pay fixation of Lt Cols a closed case or are the Service HQs likely to pursue the fixation case for S-25 as actually proposed by the PPOC?

Further, do you think this 'logic' (of half rank pay of the latest amendment to SAI is a step backwards in the fight for parity for Capts to Brigs?

Anonymous said...

Dear Navdeep,

Some positive news in the offing. Gr8 wk. Keep it up.


A Retired COL said...

navdeep any possibility of one rank one pension for our veterans.... since the demands of service lot is beeing finalizd one after another what about the VETERANS

Anonymous said...

Tho' half cocked, Cheers nonetheless !!!

Ramani said...

all are equal but some are more equal??the logic eludes me. not a good sign.
you cant have differences within a group.it will lead to confusion and chaos????

Harry said...

@ Maj Navdeep

If there is a positive and favourable verdict from Supereme Court regarding incorrect fixation of pay during 4th CPC ( Maj Dhanpalan case) then will our pay fixation be done AFRESH? I understand the case may take years, but nevertheless won't it force the Govt to refix correct pay for all of us? Imagine the implication, a present Lt Cols pay may become equivalent to something like that of a IPS DIG !! Will Govt relent so easily?

Harpal said...

Some relief in sight, as Maj. Navdeep has mentioned a line about Pensionary benefits count down. I am sure, Maj. Navdeep is ready with his magic wand again and hopefully issue will be resolved very soon.

Congrats to all Lt. Gen, for improved benefits.

Harry said...

@ Navdeep

Sir, now that govt orders are clear regarding upgradaton of only 33% of Lt Gens to HAG+, I wonder what are we celebrating for? In other words remaining 67% of Lt Gens have got PERMANENTLY DEGRADED ! Is it acceptable?

And don't forget 33% Lt Gens in HAG+ are going to be Seniormost Lt Gens, so in essence, our Corps Cdrs( new promotees) will NOT get HAG+ ! So our whole argument of Unified Comd structure going for a toss due to this anamoly, STAYS AS IT IS! Now Corps Cdr has got officially degraded TWO RUNGS below state DGP (who is in Apex scale, i.e Rs 90,000 fixed.) Whats there to feel happy about? :-(


Well, we have seen this govt is indulging in Pure Baniagiri !!How Shameful !

LETS CONTINUE OUR FIGHT FOR COMPLETE PARITY AND RESTORATION OF OUR STATUS ! Don't get fooled by crumbs thrown at you! Now you know, the question is not of money, as Grade Pay anamoly and selective HAG+ to Lt Gens has shown! Its willful denial of ur status !

Heavens sake , P U H L E A SE wake up now atleast!!

Navdeep / Maj Navdeep Singh said...


Sir, I would like to differ.

Firstly, 33% also means that all Lt Gens before their retirement shall be in HAG+ except a few freak cases.

Secondly, even in the Police, DsGP are in varying grades so this system of same rank with different grades is not military specific.

Thirdly, DGP is not in Rs 90,000 fixed as stated by you. DsGP are in HAG+ while one cadre post in each state is in Rs 80,000 fixed.

Fourthly, in case of the Army, all offrs in accordance with seniority shall shift upwards to HAG+. Army Cdrs are already in apex scale of Rs 80,000 fixed. Even Corps Commanders who could not be placed as G-Os-C-in-C due to lack of residual service are in the Apex Grade which of course is even higher than HAG+.

Fifthly, this anomaly was not created by the 6th CPC as is widely thought of. Even during the 5th CPC, DsGP were in a higher scale than Lt Gens.

It is sometimes better to take 'something' and keep the fight on, than to take 'nothing' at all. Refusal to take the '33% deal' would have meant that all our Lt Generals would have remained below DsGP till the logjam was decided.

I personally feel it's a good, tactful and intelligent move.


Anonymous said...

Dear All,

Navdeep have brought out correctly that initially we should accept 33% and then fight for more. Instead, remain down graded. I feel most of the problems of service officers are due to their rigid and non negotiable attitude.

We bring in panic in the system by adhearing to un realistic time frames. We relate sincerity, patriotism, hard work by remaining in non working hours in the office even when it is not required. We discourage people to talk about pay, realistic time frames, promotions, welfare etc by speaking ideal. We don't leave any stone un turned to brand an individual a non performer/shammer if not able to logic to his/her arguments.

We also cry when in successive pay commission, system down grade us both in status and pay. We argue, advantage of rank based retirement age due to pyramid. We say, Govt is against Armed Forces and intentionally lowering us from our civilians counter parts.

This is the time to do an introspection as to why Govt would behave step motherly with us. Are we not able to project ourselves. Is there any problem in the cadre?

Do we need to give a little more weightage to academics before placing the individual in front of SSB for final selection.

Yes, time to make some changes in our thought and selection process at least for the benefit of future generations.

Ramani said...

you are right Navdeep as usual. Take something and keep fighting rather than not take anything at all.The fight will not lose its keeness by accepting a compromise.

Unknown said...

I'm very glad that we finally got thru a maze of bureaucratic hurdles

Col NR Kurup (Retd) said...

There is nothing to cheerup. Unlike Lt Col getting PB4, there is no need for the Lt Gen to accept this. Lt Cols had no choice other than accepting PB4 in whatever way it is shoved on them due to high desparity in the emoluments. In case of Lt Gens,there may not be any financial gain at all. It is only the question of "Izzat". Please don't think that the government has upgraded 33% Lt Gens; they have reduced the "Izzat" of 67% Lt Gens, the same way they have put Lt Cols in Pay scale-25 under civilisn in pay scale-24.
Others may not agree. But I believe whatever has now trickled down is due to the VOTE-MANIA generated in the DF and attemps of ESM on the right direction. Our initial demand was "Restoration of Izzat". Still this remain not addressed. Please lead thee kindly light ESM

Col NR Kurup (Retd) said...

I pray God Almighty to give strength to our 33% Lt Generals to take the correct decision. I feel this is a God sent opportunity to the Lt Gens to convey their option of acceptance or regret this bait. Opting not to get promotted is not an offence. If all the Lt Gens convey their unwillingness to accept the offer on a ground that it is not beneficial, it is bound to make the Kings crazy. I bet, the restoration will materialise for 100% with added goodies soon if the Gens act wisely.
In any case I do not think that the new proposal bring any sort of benefit to them. Why not beat when the iron is hot ?

Navdeep / Maj Navdeep Singh said...

@Col Kurup,

Things are not as simplistic as they seem.

Please see my comments to Harry's post (1114 hrs) above.

Navdeep / Maj Navdeep Singh said...

@Col Kurup,

Every service under the Govt of India has officers in the HAG who move over to HAG+ on promotion. The same system cannot be possibly thrown to the winds for the Military.

Anonymous said...

The Generals have been woefully blind to the damage they have been doing over the years to their own officers. Why haven't they yet taken steps to bring-out promotion avenues for officers at par with Civilian counterparts? If they can't accommodate them in services, then they can be promoted and seconded to civil administration. The general civil administration is in tatters due to just 4000 GP I officers administering 3 times the subbordinates vis-a-vis Armed Forces. Result is that supervision is just for name sake with quality of many civic services(including policing) badly performing in almost all states. The best service that can be rendered by our generals is offering to share the load of our tweaking civil administration by seconding our senior officers. It will be a total win-win for society, Civil adm set-up and also for our promotion starved Lt Col, Col and Brigs. The prematurely retiring Officers and PBOR's can be absorbed in these agencies with central Govt bearing 50% cost and state Govt 50%. This so because the central govt is anyway to pay them pension without any work as most of them quit well before time. So why not use them economically by getting them to work with the states spending just 50% on their pay? Hope the idea is practical. The country is already sitting on Pension Bomb which eats almost 40% of our country's revenue.

Anonymous said...

Rather than rejoicing It appears to be disappointing.Why only 33% Lt Gens in HAG+ Grade why not 100 %.Lt Gen was always senior to DGP.Even if one DGP goes to Apex scale all Lt Gens have to be put in apex scale.How can AFs accept this discrimination and downgradation without any justification.


Anonymous said...

So Now We have FOUR types of Salary for our Esteemed THREE STARS. Wonder which other Service is so discriminatory.
No Wonder we have the three ranks of Lt Col, Col, Brig in one Pay Band. The TIME must have come to reduce our rank structure in tune with CIVIL RANKS. LET the LT GEN lead the way. Other LEADERS will FOLLOW!!!!!!!!!!

Raj said...

i fully agree with Maj Navdeep.Afterall "Discreetion is the better part of valour" as Shakespeare remarked half a milleneum ago!

Anonymous said...

Dear Navdeep,
I am posted to a modified field area which is also in counterinsurgency ops. I am living with my family in this place. I have a govt accdtn allotted to me. I wish to know whether i am entitled 2 warrants per year or only one. I have gone through all letters accessible to me which do not give anything on people staying with families are given only one warrant. But this is the fact on ground that people with their families are given only one warrant.Pl clarify if anyone has any written clarification on this topic.