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Friday, March 27, 2009

Where are you now Mr Gupta ?

There was a big hue and cry in some sections of the media when the Service Chiefs decided to request the govt to rectify the PayCom anomalies before these were implemented. The said decision was seen as a contempt of authority of the govt and a (non-existent) wedge was sought to be created within the defence establishment, a journalistic act which was of course based on conjectures and more contemptuous than the imaginary ‘rift’ itself.

Now where is Mr Gupta ?. A duly constituted Group of Ministers under the aegis of the Prime Minister of the Republic of India, has agreed to upgrade Lt Cols to Pay Band-4 and the same has been duly deliberated upon and approved by the Raksha Mantri, the Ministry of Defence and the Services. Though there is no hitch, the case, in all probability, is with the finance babus who are sitting on it before the arrears are finally disbursed. Now isn’t this contempt and derision of the directions of the govt, the PM, the GoM, the RM, the MoD, the Service Headquarters, conveyed oh so many months ago ?

And what jurisdiction do the Ministry of Finance and the Department of Expenditure have to comment on the relative status of military personnel and civilians as has been happening ? Isn’t that the duty of the Ministry of Home Affairs and the President’s Secretariat ? And who gave the authority to our finance experts to question the MoD on the latter’s (correct) interpretation of the deputation clause ? Aren’t they exceeding their brief and having a free run by not giving effect to a lawful command from the highest echelons of the govt ? Any answers Mr Gupta ? Will we ever get to read about this in your newspaper ?

A message and a request to readers : I also urge members of the military community to look beyond PB-4. Isn’t there much more to life ? This is something which is eventually (and soon) going to reach your accounts and that too with arrears, so why sit on a short fuse ?. Catharsis in the form of offensive behaviour would not lead to early finalisation of the issue, and neither does it show the military community in good light. So my request is to stay calm and relax, and go easy on the chat box with those caustic comments. All individual mails on PB-4 issue can also not be possibly replied to and please do not mind that since I am in a demanding profession and though I try to update you as promptly as possible; I am not in a position to reply to separate mails on the same subject time and again. I wish there were more than 24 hours in a day, but there ain’t.


Anonymous said...

Well said Maj Navdeep.

Anonymous said...

send Mr Gupta a link to this post please

rajaraman said...

You are asking where is shekar gupta ?

well , having done his bit to show services and service chiefs in poor light, he must be basking in & enjoying the unjustied reward he got from this govt for writing what they wanted him to write. That one article in Indian express was enough for me to stop reading that newspaper and stop watching his TV programme " Walk the talk" in NDTV.

What a disgusting level people can stoop to just to gain undue favours !!! It is unfortuante that such people are still with Indian Express daily , that was known for its courage of unbiassed reporting.

Anonymous said...

Dear Maj. Navdeep,

We as saviours of the nation owe a great deal to you for enlightening us. This in turn will further the cause of enlightening the common man about the lurking dangers to our national security. Without a secure and safe environment Our Great Nation cann't regain its past pristine glory.

You are correct when you say that it is not correct and becoming on the part of a 'Kshatriya ( Professionally ) to bicker about small things like arrears. We have to learn from History that it's 'The Kshatriya' , who plays a very significant role in the society. All injustices, done to whomsoever are ultimately undone. It's the Law Of Nature. The cream automatically comes on top after churned.

Keep it up. May God give you and all of us strength to keep our tricolour flying and honour of The services untarnished.

Majority of our countrymen including journalists adore The servicemen. 'Shekhar Guptas' are only a handful.


Anonymous said...

Dear Raja Babu,

you are right . The Services fraterity in toto and a large no of others have shunned the Indian Express and His Walk The Talk. What a turnaround from days of Mr. Arun Shourie and Mr. Goenka.

May God help Indian Express.

Anonymous said...

It is only the babus who can get away with such contempt for their own bosses.The PM clearly gave his directions and intent on new years day,but the staff are still dithering over it.
this would be a court matial offence if was done by a serviceman.
all said and done it is the waiting which is the had part.

Yogander Singh said...

I agree with you in entirety. May I suggest some of the issues for discussion:-

1. Why there is so uch negativity in some of us?
2. Why do we tend to be overly harsh with our own whenever we have the opportunity to interpret rules or apportion assets. For example we have slowly but surely circumscribed our entitlements. Our living accomodation (be it married or single) is maintained to lowest possible standards. We have no qualms in putting our subordinates into embarassing positions solely to gain an inconsequential advantage (like sending our men to civilian offices to push our applications).
3. How to make the system more responsive and transparent?
4. The CCS (Conduct) Rules specifically permit (that is right - permit)civil servants `To publish a book himself or through a publisher, in bona fide discharge of his duties (Rule 8(2). Subject to condition that it does not contain any official document. Why should the soldiers not have the same right. It will go a long way in exposing all that ails the services.

ASK said...

It is because of curbs on our fundamental rights that such a situation can be created by the baboos for Armed Forces personals .Imagine if the civilians were treated in this manner they would gone on strike & brought the GOI DOWN TO ITS KNEES in no time.The fiery types would have even invaded the Finance Ministry & burnt down the Expenditure Dept.

Anonymous said...

i m shocked to hear from offrs that lady wives are not to be saluted which is a shock to me after 20 yrs pl clarify

another querry about saluting a civillian superior offrs and addressing them as sir it again opposite to what was taught at IMA NDA

Anonymous said...

As we were taught - respect needs to be earned and cannot be demanded, as against seniority. which needs to be respected anyway....You have sir , earned our respect, due to your interest in all matters affecting the AF, and secondly ( i feel more importantly) by your way of dealing with things fairly and keeping the blogspace sanitised of emotions. Thank you for the yeoman service you are doing.

Anonymous said...

Dear Navdeep Thanks a ton for the yeomen service that you are doing to our community even after hanging up your uniform.

Now comming to some of the comments on this blog and also a small comment on your advice regarding looking beyond PB4. I got a few points to bring it to the notice of all concerned.

1. Firstly the primary reason why most of the visitors of this site keep asking about PB 4 is because it is the first time someone has got an oppurtunity to put forward his views and in the process is impatient to know the real truth.

2. Having said this the next is that perhaps its our training and the military values which have been imbibed into us which make most of us never see beyong the limited horizons which our sevice conditions pose on us.

3. It is perhaps the first time we the military fraternity can foresee what spokes these babus may put in implementing the already recommended and approved orders issued by PMO MOD .....

4. While our service representatives in the SCPC did try their best and project our so called "WISH LIST' most of us feel that the services have not been successful in putting forward their points in the correct perspective, in a language which can be understood by the BABU CLAN. This becomes evident from the SCPC report which has been forwarded while stating our wishes. Here we have to learn from the BABUs to beat them at their own game. In case of the IPS and the IAS, IES recommendations were asked from all and they could be submitted by individuals directly to the coordinating cells which were formed in the respective departments and never had to be vetted by the higher or their I.Os and R.O.s This gave them an oppurtunity to get views from a huge section and ofcourse the job was tedious for the BABUS in the coordinating cells but they did take it and succeeded in getting what they want. Unlike our case our committe was perhaps the last one to be formed and first to submit its recommendations.

5. Now comming to even after orders are approved by all depts including MOF, we in the services are famous to ut in spokes ourselves a typical example is the Capt (TS) in case of the Indian Navy. Although orders were issued and implemented in the other two services all Ltcdrs who did not make it to Cdr (select grade) earlier to AVSC -I although were made commanders they have not been promoted to Capt (TS). This forced one Officer to seek the help of the Indian Judiciary and here is the bigger and main point the Navy while cannot dare hire to hire reputed lawers from the (civilians) fight cases to defend its officers or even the cases which will end up a huge amount in saving to the state in this case has gone ahead and hired some so called "reputed ex high court or supreme court judge" to fight on its behalf and see to it that these small chunk of Officers never get to wear the Captain(TS) rank.

6. Now in the case of PB4 also the primary reason why so many are eager t know is because of this very reason while on one hand we got enough outside forces to tackle in getting an order passed there are some of us who are spectical and would not like ts count our chicken so make sure that follow the case and see if any such spokes are being contemplated upon by our own higher ups within the organisation.

7. Having said this I would like to know if there is any way by which we may make sure that once PB4 comes through it will be made applicable to all I mean ALL, and not give any chance to anyone inclusing our own higher ups to introduce spokes such as not ahving done some criteria appointment aor some restriction posed due to some category or introduce some thing else such as qualifying some obnoxious course or exams which till date the DOP never realised but when it comes to implementing PB4 they may come up with.

These points have been posted to give all the visitors of this Blog some food for thought and also brace themselves for some additional spokes to be introduced by the forces within also.

Anonymous said...

Why do we harm ourselves when the govt is giving with open hands.The case in point is non - implementation of Col's equvalent rank in navy for Naval officers completing 26 years.Navy's own interpretation that they would maintain interse seniority and thus would not promote cdr (time scale) to capt .This is not the case with other two services .There fore Babus are not in the civil world alone they r with in services also.Tommorrow when u would have ur own pay commission would these babus in uniform not do more harm than the babus in civil

Anonymous said...

This is gross injustice to the soldiers and thier family,we demand parity and equality,look at the babbus and civilian doctors they have been disbursed with new pay and arears,specialist doctor with mere nine years of service is drawing GP of 8700,where as in army you need to have 24 years of service,I see these people in decision makings are not only indefferent and insensitive but they have proved to be moron,we really need to wake them and if required punish them for thier inefficiency and imbecile behaviour and act,do i need to express any thing extra,i am ready to confront RM,PM,CHIEF & DGS.

Anonymous said...

Dear Navdeep, Hats of to you for having woken up a most self interested journalist of once considered to be great dare devil Newspaper established by dare devil great Ramnath Goenka.
I have been a regular reader and addicted to this News paper for many decades but eventually say goodbye and switched over to other impartial Newspaper till he is out of this paper.

Anonymous said...

Hi maj,
At the outset ... i'm a big fan of yours.. Thanx for all the good work from my side too...

Now a query... Recently we lost one of our Airman while working on a Russian aircraft. The accident was presumably due to a technical snag .. The COI is in progress.Now the said aircraft is still in warranty period and all rectifications on it were being done by the Russian Warranty Team..

My query is that can the Original equipment maker be dragged to court by the family of the deceased or by the service itself to give additional compensation to the family... If yes ... could you guide on how this can be gone about??

Anonymous said...

Are you aware that entitlements on permenant posting has not changed from the 5PC rates, despite recommendations of the 6PC, becuse the GOI order (Para 4 C) does not bear the calrification

"....transportation of personal effects by road at the rates prescribed for ‘other places’ should be allowed in respect of places connected by train as well without subjecting it to the extant restriction that these can not exceed 1.25 times of the eligible train fare'
(Para 4.2.37 of Pg 240 of 6PC Report)

Prakash said...

@anonymous 7.30

If u read Pay commission report and para 4 (c) of GOI letter it is clear that the new rates are in accordance with pay commission recommendations. I dun think so there should be any doubt coa the latest letter will overrule the old order of 1.25 times of train fare and thus making us entitled for the new rates @18 Rs per km


Anonymous said...

Dear Navdeep,

Kudos to you for your hard work. Keep up the good work.

Best Wishes

Anonymous said...

Guptaji is just another Indian Journalist who has to eke out a living. Like the roadside tea shop commentator he has to churn out spice to keep the conversation going. Do you really think he was convinced of what he wrote or did he really comprehend it? No need to get hyper, he managed his pay check.Their knee jerk comments would stand trial even in a court of juvenile.

Anonymous said...

@ Officer March 27, 2009 12:18 PM

Dear Sir,

I fully agree with u. The enemy is within... u ask most captains (navy), they did not want cdr promotion to become timescale (avsc).... again ask the same set of people, they didnt want pb-4 for commanders to come thru....they want to fly everywhere but when it comes to junior officers for flying, especially on ty duty, they say funds have got exhausted... so the bigger enemy is within... i second your thought...
Young Officer

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

Hi Navdeep!

6th CPC is close to reaching its conclusion soon. It's obvious that it can't satisfy everyone.
I think it's time to start discussing a liberal exit policy for the dissatisfied souls irrespective of the rank. This will help the services to get rid of the souls who are more intent on spreading negativity than on the job on hand.
Considering the shortage of officers in the ranks of Lt, Capt & Majors, the exit policy can be started from the ranks of Lt Col/Col onwards as that is the level where we hear the maximum complaints.

Food for thought!!!

rajaraman said...

Hello Anonymous @ March 27, 2009 8:40 AM,

Your reference to me as Raja Babu made me write this. I am neither an IAS Babu ( I am glad I am not) nor a fraud depicted by govinda in the Hindi Movie by the name "Raja Babu" .

I am a simple, contented fauji , retired after 28 glorious years of service in the Army in the corps of EME. i enjoyed every bit of my service without any regrets.

raja was only a shortname used by me as people used to call me by that name while in service.

with the kind of values that i have been brought up with, I am neither qualified to be a successful IAS Babu nor the Raja Babu of that movie.

Thanks for agreeing with my views.

Force1 said...

Dear Maj Navdeep, I am sure Mr Gupta will not have time now, as hes already got what he wanted from the bureaucrats! a Padmashree or Whatever!

Anonymous said...

why armed forces do not keep the enviorenment informed on pay related matters. isnt lack of communication within reason for all the unwanted anxiety. or it is really clueless what babus are doing.

Anonymous said...

Maj Navdeep
I will rate this Article on TOP of every other one you wrote. In my opinion, Mr 'Baniya' has a very deep grudge against Armed Forces, I can say that with confidence as I have read all his articles, which he wrote with full of Venom and Vengeance against Armed Forces. Its a National Shame that such a person is awarded one of the highest civilian awards. That again speaks of deep rooted conspiracy of people ranging from Bureaucrats to Politicians. I would be very happy if I am proved or even explained the 'wrong' in my thinking. Secondly I think you may not post this comment of mine, but its sufficient if you read it.
Thanks and Regards

Anonymous said...

The undue delay and could not care less attitude (for the armed Forces) only goes to show as to how arrogant the bureaucracy could be and how week is our organisation because three chiefs together could do little and are helpless.It also shows that we have number of biased and sickening media persons like Shekher Gupta.And at the end I would also add that all this show of concern for security by politicians is also a drama only.

Unknown said...

There is disparity within services! The basic pay of lt col as on date is 27960, while the starting basic pay of wg cdr is 29000, thus a lt col with 15 years service is being paid less than a just promoted wg cdr (13years),why this disparity and can anything be done to resolveit, as CDA refuse to accept the same.

Anonymous said...

Refer my comments on entitlements on posting.

I agree that 6PC reprots had clarified that matter.

However SAI has NOT, owing to which CDA(O) is not allowing claims at new rate.

P.S. Matter may be clarified from office of CDA(O)

Rajababu said...

Dear raja sir,

Annon is referring to me i belive as i am active on this blog. so its a case of mistaken identity.

As far as Shekhar Gupta is concerned most in the Indian media just want to sensation and are defnitely Hand in Glove with the political/babudom. so always take it with a pinch of salt. u can see how shamelessly they interview a person whom they throw brickbats in the newsroom/papers. it is nothing but an eyewash/hogwash. only a discerning TV watcher/readers can catch the lie/facade.

So disregard the news channel/paper reports. they only side u when it serves their interests. for eg Jai Jawan, Navy Leheron ka sartaj are all publicity stunts to grab eyeballs with the facade of showing concern for our soldiers. How many of the news channels who are worth their salt have followed up the pay commssion anomalies. none to my knoweldge.

we have to fight the battle on our own.

OneTopic at a time said...

Dear Major Navdeep,

Self-righteousness is the vice that Mr Gupta has been conferring up on himself. He was all froth and fire in his editorial but now finds it inconvenient to offer an apology.

Armed Forces are well disciplined by all comparisons with any other lot in the public sector. For the Chiefs to have taken up the matter must have been after deep and considerable thought as to the implications for the Nation, the Armed Forces and it personnel in that order.

But Mr Gupta and our co-blogger Pragmatic Euphony seem to be in some other world.

It takes all kinds to make the world and so may be, we need to tolerate their vituperation and Cassandra-like (false) predictions.
Jai Hind

Anonymous said...

Dear Navdeep
While all of us in service uniform are bound to obey the law of the land, the only thing will pinches is that the soldiers in the other services viz Coast Guard and other Paramilitary forces who are in the same rank of Cdr equivalent or junior in rank have already got the Pay in PB-4.isn't that a real 'DIVIDE & RULE' Ploicy by the UPA govt etc....

anjaniksing@gmail.com said...

I want to seek your clarifications on the effect of pay & allowances after the adjustment of seniority in case of Short service officers. I was commissioned on 21 Aug 1993 and was entitled for the capt's pay after completion of 5 yrs service ON 21 Aug 98. However, since i was SS offr, my seniority was adjusted and fixed on 19 Apr 1994, therefore, I got my pay of capt rank on 19 Apr 99.
Recently I came across a GOI letter of MOD letter No- B/32313/PC/AG/PS-2(a)921/D(AG) dt 20 Jul 2006, addressed to COAS whose para 1(g) deals with the ADJUSTMENT OF SENIORITY and it states that " To make adjustment for shorter trg pd of SSC offrs vis-a-vis PC offrs, the seniority of PC offrs will be depressed by the period corrosponding to the difference in trg pd between the SSC course and its equivalent PC course. This adjustment of seniority will be carried out at the time of grant of first substantive rank of capt. The revised seniority will have no effect on the pay and allowances granted in the rank of capt, major and lt col."

Now my querry is - as per the last line that the revised seniority will have no effect on the pay & allowances granted in the rank of capt, maj & Lt col then all SS offrs pay should not get adjusted by 8 months later.

I will be grateful if u can educate me on this issue. my mail id-- anjaniksing@gmail.com & arsss@ymail.com
With warm regards. LT Col A K Singh

shailoo said...

if i joined the indian army as a soilder g.d.,,after complete my training ,,how much time spend in army to becomeing an ex-serviceman.please consult me.

Ex-sgt said...

Dear Sir,

After availing the age relaxation given to the ex-servicemen i got a class 1 job. Can i apply for another class 1 job after availing the age relaxation given to the ex servicemen.


Anonymous said...

Dear sir, Im Jayakanth. I served in Indian army for 8 years 6 months. i become deserter from service since Feb 2012. Can i get canteen card facility for grorcery and liquar. please mention other facility also if available.

Anonymous said...

Sir: My discharge book says I was discharged from the Army under Rule 13(3)III(iv). Could you please tell me what is it. Is it discharged on Request/Reduction in Establishment/Pension on service completed.