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Wednesday, March 25, 2009

Definition of ‘Ex-serviceman’ : varied vintage

As most of us would know, generally facilities under Govt of India to retired and released personnel are restricted to those who have been granted the status of ‘ex-serviceman’ (though personally I feel it is high time that the term should be made gender neutral). The definition of ‘ex-serviceman’ has seen many changes from time to time. To take an example, for those who were released prior to 1968, even such personnel are covered under the definition who had served for a single day in the forces, and this is applicable for facilities in the present times too. Hence a person who had served the forces just for a day prior to 1968 would be entitled to all facilities available to ex-servicemen for all times to come since that person has already earned the said status which shall remain applicable all throughout. Since this aspect has remained confusing to authorities dealing with retired personnel, I though I would just in a gist highlight the definition of ‘ex-servicman’ :

For personnel released prior to 01 July 1968
All individuals (both combatants and non-combatants) who had served in any rank and who had been released due to any reason otherwise than way of dismissal or discharge for misconduct or inefficiency.

For personnel released between 02 July 1968 and 30 June 1979
All individuals (both combatants and non-combatants) who had served in any rank for six months or above and who had been released due to any reason otherwise than way of dismissal or discharge for misconduct or inefficiency

For personnel released between 01 July 1979 and 30 June 1987
All individuals (both combatants and non-combatants) who had served in any rank for six months or above and who had been released due to any reason otherwise than way of dismissal or discharge for misconduct or inefficiency and also individuals discharged at own request having 5 years of service or more

For personnel released after 01 July 1987 (Applicable as on date)
In a nutshell, the following are included in post 01 July 1987 cases :

(a) Pensioners
(b) Individuals released on completion of terms of engagement (such as SSCOs and other contractual personnel)
(c) Disability Pensioners
(d) Territorial Army pensioners, disability pensioners and gallantry awardees
(e) APS personnel retiring from the APS with a pension without reversion to P&T department and disability pensioners

Some authorities are under a misconception that only pensioners are included under the ibid definition. This is a misnomer and needs to be shunned. Most schemes under the Central and State Governments have been made applicable to all personnel granted ex-servicemen status unless the requirement of pension is specifically mentioned (such as in ECHS).

82 comments:

Anonymous said...

If the requirement of pension is a must for ECHS, how do all other categories of other ex-servicemen become entitled to medical care in military hospitals? Is entitlement to medical care same as entitlement to CSD facilities? Can we have smart cards (CSD smart cards can be used) for storing basic medical care records as well as determining entitlement for same?
It's high time that this issue is settled by AG's office, Chief's secretariat, MOD or whoever else is supposed to be doing it!!!
The confusion created by multiple letters which are not widely available is humongous. We end up blaming AMC, DGAFMS ofice and other providers. They are not responsible for this mess since they don't determine entitlements which is the job of AG's office/MOD.
Is there anybody out there listening?

Navdeep / Maj Navdeep Singh said...

@Anony at 7.04

Non-pensioner ESM are only entitled limited facilities in MHs, a concept which is quite different than ECHS. For serious diseases, non-pensioner ESM are entitled to reimbursement from the Kendriya Sainik Board once the service hospital specifies and certifies that the person concerns requires further treatment. But this rule has also been thrown in the dumps by the office of DGAFMS since MHs are not just entertaining non-pensioners hence such ESM are unable even to procure a basic certificate which entitles them for reimbursement of their expenditure for serious diseases. The problem is quite complex and arises out of the simple fact that a Presidential Sanction issued by the MoD is not being honoured by some interpreters sitting in the office of DGAFMS who have zero administrative acumen and who do not believe in proper application of mind. When we ourselves are not able to help out our own, it would be silly to expect such gestures from the so called 'baboos'.

Navdeep / Maj Navdeep Singh said...

Sorry, in the post above,

For 'concerns' in the sixth line


Read 'concerned'

Thank you

Ramani said...

Zero administerative acumen and improper application of mind.You said it.
That is the bane of the Indian Adm system.wrong/incorrect intrepretation is the problem creaters everywere.Even when the Govt has clearly spelt out,the various Babus intrepret in their own way.and mess up an already messy situation.
The PM has very clearly indicated his mind on the PB4, bit everyone has doubts and doubts.One simple phone call could have cleaed the ambiguity rather than sending the Missiles/sorry missives up and down.
Also a singleminded stupidness in not understanding even when expicitly told is the real problem.NOT accepting a mistake due to MEGA EGO is the crux of the issue.
SO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! should we live with it OR is thee a solution???

Anonymous said...

Hi Navdeep!
Thanks for the clarification. There is no doubt that the problem is quite complex. What is the extent of "limited facilities" in military hospitals? Who will determine that?

Why were non-pensioner ex-servicemen not entitled ECHS facilities? Instead of blaming DGAFMS office, why can't we have a look in that direction? After all ECHS was a brainchild of AG's office & Chief's secretariat. It had nothing to do with AMC in the planning stages & AMC was involved only during implementation. Why didn't these offices, full of great administrators as compared to DGAFMS office, allow non-pensioner ex-servicemen to join ECHS? Why this bias? Why not challenge this bias in a court of law?

The issue here is that why can't somebody settle this issue at the right echelon level?

Anonymous said...

Hi Navdeep !!
Here is something very important.
Since the Govt in delaying the implementation of PB4 for Lt Cols,they should make 40%of the arrears as interim payment,before 31st March as per the existing orders.All ranks except Lt Cols have been paid this amount.
If complete arrears are paid together after 1st April,income-tax will be very high.To avoid this,Govt should exempt this 40% arrears from payment of tax if the payment is delayed beyond 31st March.Why should only Lt Cols be punished with higher taxes when all other officers are paying lower taxeses since the arrears are being paid in two financial years,ie 40% before 31st March and 60% afler 31st March splitting the same to two financial years.
Maj Navdeep,can you put up this valid legal point to the concerned people for immediate action ?

kmpods said...

Dear Anonymous
Refer ost @ 8:57 AM.
The pension burden will be the same whether paid in 08-09 or 09-2010.
since all Lt Cols are in in the 30% tax bracket , any additional money earned will be taxed at 30% rate.
Incientally if you had paid tax at alesser rate in any of the previous years then you can claim relief under Sec 89.
Regards

Anonymous said...

I wonder why hasn't any of the non-pensioner ex-servicemen gone to court for denial of medical benefits.
Why are they being denied enormous benefits of ECHS scheme?
Why can't somebody define "limited benefits" in the field of medical care?
Why do Kendriya Sainik Board need certificates from service hospitals when all the treatment documents and expenses are done in civil?
Why add another bureaucratic red tape of another signature on the papers when service hospital has not treated that patient?
Why isn't somebody holding the office of DGAFMS accountable if the fault lies there?

So many queries! Any answers?

Anonymous said...

TO DRAW YOUR ATTNENTION : DO NOT OK
dear maj navdeep

this doesnot concern the present topic.

i draw you attention towards HOUSE BUILDING ADVANCE. based on the 6 pay commission most dept including the civ def est have adopted the increase in HBA to rs 7.5 lacs however the AG PS 3 is waiting for notification/ resoulution/ auth etc etc... isn't it a irony that the concerned clk can draw the increased HBA since he is a civ def employee and the soldier in uniform is waiting because of the auth that is yet to come from AG/ Dir/ Secy/ Jt Secy or some other official in a neighbouring office in Delhi.
Ring up AG PS3 and the ask for the limit- it is still Rs 2.1 lac !!

saran said...

even i wanted to know more abt the house building advance from AG's branch. someone give me more details on this plz

Beniwal said...

Dear Maj.Navdeep, Please tell what are the limited facilities in MHs available to ESM. Every one say what he think it is and mostly not same. Once by amendment the condition of pensioner has been removed, why all granted status of ESM pre/post 1987 be made member of ECHS. By this action all discrimination among entitled ESM will be removed.

Beniwal said...

Dear Maj.Navdeep, please tell what all are the limited facilities available in AFCs/MHs to ESM. Every one say what he think it is eg. OPD only/and admision etc and no two info/view are same. So you are best to advise us. Also once by the MoD order dtd 26.9.96 the condition of pensioner is removed from entitled ESM, all persons having status of ESM pre/post 1.7.87, issued with ESM card by KSB/ZSB be allowed to become ECHS member. Now again making it only for pensioner seems contravention of the govt. intention of providing medicare to the entitled ESM. Just by removing the word 'pensioner' inserted intentionaly/unintentionaly in the eligibility for ECHS, discrimination among entitled ESM for medicare will be removed, beside other hasseles of paper work. ECHS is meant for ESM(Ex-Fauji/Ex-Sainik/Purv-Sainik)any of these can be gender nuetral definition. why Can't COAS correct DGAFMS misinterpretation ? and give relief to entitled ESM.

Anonymous said...

All ex-servicemen should be entitled to ECHS benefits. That will remove any doubts about entitlements in anyone's minds.
It is this ambiguity which has caused all this confusion on who is entitled and who is not.
Let there be a clear policy letter/statement from AG's office(Corresponding branches in Air Force & Navy) or MOD about the entitled benefits for all categories of ex-servicemen. Then nobody can question that.

The present available letters just define exservicemen without commenting on entitlements. That has left the window open for differing interpretation at different levels, DGAFMS office & Sainik Boards included.

Is there no legal remedy to this recurring problem?

Anonymous said...

Dear Navdeep,

Hi,

Pls give ur opinion on Tapan's comments (reproduced below) written in ur earlier blog :

Dear Maj Navdeep,

1. Contribution of ur site in putting us in pb4 can not be denied/ debated by any one. May I request you to focus on certain other important issues pertaining to service officers. Some of the issues in my opinion are :

(a) Uniform retirement age for all ranks.

(b) Liberal exit policy (with three months of notice) with a few years of intial engagement depending on branch/arm. Modelaties may be worked out.

(c) Removal of pernmanently passed over system with certain weightage to seniority in addition of taking average of last seven/ten reports.

(d) Posting to important/ critical assignment may be based on ARs.

2. Your site is now being read by any and every one who is even remotely linked to services. Therefore I beleive that at some time the focus and synergy on these issues would definately lead to removal of some of the self inflicted misries of service officers.

3. I also understand that not only u can pass these issues to ur contacts in decision making but also fight it out from legal angle.

4. Eagerly looking forward for some action from ur end.

As always, regards and best wishes.

Tapan

March 21, 2009 11:29 AM

God bless

Peter

Indian History said...

Sir,

Its no comment but a query which may kindly be answered for the benefit of all the ex servicemen who while competing with the civilian counter parts, where there is no age concession nor any concession in the academic qualifications join as direct appointees as fresh appointees and are put to disadvantage for being ex serviceman .

When an officer serving in the armed forces of India at the age of 46 years applies for a post in the Civil , say in a registered society fully funded by the government of India on the basis of the prescribed

(a) mandatory Academic Qualifications say PhD etc.

(b) When the max age prescribed is 50 years.

(c) When there is no reservation for ex servicemen nor any age concession nor any concession in the academic qualifications.

(d) When at the time of joining this job no condition is set by the Civil Office/ Department that the officer after joining the civil post as a direct recruit on the basis of competition/ interview would be treated as re employed military pensioner

(e) When no benefit of age or any other concession was given at the time of joining

Should the Civil Office/ Department
deduct the military pension earned by the officer in the armed forces and treat him as a re employed military pensioner?

Indian History said...

Dear Colleagues,

It is strange that no one has been able to answer this simple query!

When a military officer joins a civil post on the basis of in advertisement specified mandatory academic/ technical qualifications that are not possessed by all the military officers/personnel say PhD, MBA, LLB etc. and the said military officer competes with the general candidates where he is neither given any age concession, nor any concession in academic qualifications nor the post is reserved nor there is any condition at the time of joining service that the the civil Department would deduct the military service pension from the salary of the civil post treating the officer as a re employed military pensioner then why should the military pension be deducted in the case of officers only as this is not applicable to the non commissioned officers?

Gone are the days when the officers could only be considered fit for security related jobs.

Do the Members of Parliament/ President of India/ other senior Government Officers who reach these distinguished positions if happen to be retired from the military service or civil service are treated as re employed pensioners and is that even in there cases the pension earned from the former military service or civil service deducted?

Kindly answer this question.

Are there any Court judgments ?

Arjun Chabba said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
aman said...

DEAR NAVDEEP,

AN EXSERVICEMAN WHO SERVED IN1957-58 FOR A PERIOD OF 6 MONTHS CAME TO ME APPLYING FOR CANTEEN FACILITIES. IS HE ENTITLED? IS HE ENTITLED FOR BOTH GROCERY AND LIQUOR? PLEASE ADVISE.

ashwanix said...

I'll request you to kindly give us the authority & link to the various auth letters so that we can download it & produce it if reqd.

Anonymous said...

There is definitely a doubt in the minds of non pensioner ESM about limited facilities available in MH and why ECHS can not be also extended to them. I think Maj Navdeep is the most suitable person who can be requested to take up this matter with MOD /AG's
branch or in the court law

Sumitha said...

Sir,

My father was an ex-serviceman who had been part of the World War II, but we do not get any pension or any other grant. We are registered with Ex-servicemen Board at Ooty. They do not respond properly. Who we approach in this case?

Kindly please help!

Anonymous said...

dear brother why donot approach exservicemen association in coimbatore for help.

bejoy said...

Hi, There is one person who had completed 9 years in proper Army and then he discontinued. Will he get ECHS? Please answer.

davvy said...

if an ssc officer recruited on september 2000 and after 5 years on september 2005 is released from army will he be included in the definition of Exserviceman. And what was the engagement period in 1999-2000 for ssc at ota

davvy said...

And what was the engagement period in 1999-2000 for ssc at ota

Anonymous said...

I would like to mention here one of the major career anomalies faced by ex-service men. People have a deep rooted notion that we are fit for nothing other than security jobs. The re-employment in Civil is open to us at the lowest rung of the ladder bcoz by the time we come out of the Service, we cross the age limit for middle level entry, even thru competitive exams. The situation resembles a snake and ladder game where we can’t reach a level on par with our age and experience. Once re-employed, the masters find us most reliable and competent to entrust more and more work bcoz they can’t extract work from the youngsters. But when the question of promotion and career prospects arises, we are placed at the far end of the queue merely bcoz we joined later!.
While in Service, we are always in ‘queue’ and when we come out, we find ourselves at the end of another queue!!. I am afraid no OROP can make up this loss.

Capt Ghuman said...

Dear Maj Navdeep,

If a SSCO who has put in 5/10 yrs of service, after release has joined Punjab Civil Services or any class-I job with Punjab govt,is he eligible for any kind of service benefits or ante-date seniority?
Please guide.

aneesh said...

1. Apply for re employment through APA is authorised for Those who taken premature retirement ?

2. what are the revised definition as laid down in Government of India, Ministry of Home Affairs, Department of Personnel and Administrative Reforms Notification No.36034/5/85/Estt.(SCT) dated 27.10.1986 ?

Anonymous said...

Is there any latest orders/clarifications as far as the APS personnel having not directly retired and served more than5 years ?

Anonymous said...

Sir,

I have been discharged on medical grounds attributable to military service, while I was undergoing training as a GC in IMA, Dehradun. I am in receipt of a letter which grants me an Ex-Gratia and Disability pension for life.
The definition of ex-Servicemen as given by Ministry of Home Affairs Deptt. of Personnel and Administrative Reforms Notification No.36034/5/85/Estt(SCT),1986., which is reproduced in advts. for recruitment in civilian posts is being variously interpreted.
I am in a dilemma as to apply in the Ex-Service category or not for the bove said vacancies. Kindly help with the needy information.

Regards

Anonymous said...

Dear Navdeep Sir, I am an ESM retired from IN during 2008. to get employed in the Govt sector I have been competing in govt exams and have qualified in few of them, recently i have qualified in SBI Clerical exam and in the 11th hour i.e. while handing over the appointment letter they gave us an affidavit format and told it to get typed in a judicial stamp paper signed by 1st class Judicial Magistrate "I have not availed any govt job before and after the SBI interview". how can we write such a nonsense thing. and moreover, few friend of mine were already in the PSUs on probation and qualified SBI, now they have resigned from there as the probation period is considered temporary employment and we are liable to be dismissed without showing any reason what so ever. Now if an ESM is told by the PSU employer that his service is no longer required then what will be his future, as SBI telling that u have lost ur ESM status, although we have to undergo the same procedure of appointment starting from putting application like the civilians do, then why we have been treated like that? after qualifying various govt exams why an ESM has to switch over to a security supervisor job in pvt sector when he has the quality and ability to compete in civil exams and stand in merit? is there any provision regarding second time benefit towards govt jobs by ESM? can't we regain our ESM status if we leave a PSU job being in probation? please help as it has become a national issue for ESMs and thousand ESM will suffer due to non-availability of proper orders. plz plz plz help.

marls said...

sir,

This blog of urs has bought me confidence that im an ex- service person. not beeting round the bushes, sir i am Ramesh Marla, Ex electrical Artificier of Indian navy who got retired after his 10 years of initial engagement. concerning the data given in ur blog and the policy of Ministry of Home affairs it is very clear that im am an eligible Ex - service person but the same has been denied by my Director, Zilla Sainik Board, Visakhapatnam - Andhra pradesh. He says that he has to get directives from DGR. Many of our batchmates , Seniors and Juniors ( Approx 90) personnel are facing the same problem especially in andhra pradesh. pls do suggest me my next course of action.

kamaljit said...

sir
Actually in some govt.exam,there are 4 BC posts and 2 ESM posts.I have applied under BC.The result is out and there are three BC persons and 1 ESM dependent person who get more marks than me.I wnt to ask that whether ESM dependent eill be regarded as simple BC or BC ESM??The fact is that This ESM dependent person has got highest marks in his catogary.
there are other ESM self persons also but they got less marks..

kamal said...

sir,in my last post.i want to add that there are 2 BC ESM posts along with 4 BC posts.and 1 person who gets more marks is BC ESMdependent.so will he be treated as BC or BC ESM???

Col Arvind said...

dear sumitha,
if your father served in WW2 and you are not getting any benefits send me a copy of his release certificate and also approach the DM who is the president of Distt Soldier bd. u should send the letters by a registered post and send me a copy. i will pursue to get you all arrears.
Col Arvind Kumar
Zila sainik Kalyan Aligarh. UP PIN 201001. phone 0935927854

manoj said...

My brother Mr. Santosh Agrawal had worked in 130 BN BSF as sub inspector for around 3 and half years including training of 1 year. He had to resign from his services due to unavoidable circumstances in 2005. At present santosh is suffering from blood cancer and is under treatment.

whether he will be able to get medical benefits provided to ex service man

Anonymous said...

dear navdeep sir,
i have joined Indian Air Force in 2001 as an Airman and left it in 2009 at my own request after serving 8 years. I took discharge on selection to civil post. Now my question is;-
am I eligible for age relaxation for UPSC, Civil Services exams under Ex- Servicemen Quota?
There are various clauses for age relaxation given in UPSC notifications such as discharged on disciplinary ground, medical ground etc. Can i also be considered, under discharge at my own request,for age relaxation. i want only age relaxation, if possible. i will be waiting for your precious information, please.

Anonymous said...

A Airman who served Indian Air Force about 12 years and discharged on educational ground can have csd smart card facility or not?

Anonymous said...

my father took the vrs frm army after comltng 9 yrs of service after that he got the job in bharat petroleum corporation ltd . i am his daughter can i get all the benifits applyng 4 a govt job

macpub1972 said...

The yardstic is diffrent for different facility.For ECHS one can find definition will be interpreted exactly in opposite manner where one applies for SMART CARD for CSD facility.
CSD facility is extended to almost all of the serving and even retired civilian employees of the govt of India whether paid out of Defence Estimates or not.
So just apply and you will get it more the cards there are more sale , more pilferage, more profits , more money to private funds and more abuse of that fund.

Anonymous said...

Sir, Army Postal Service is the part of regular Army. Regular Army person is getting ex serviceman status after 15 years but we APS personnel serving more then 15 years & then joined to Civil department of post but ESM status is not given. However those who have filed case in CAT/Court have won the case and getting ESM. We are facing great problem due to non receipt of ESM. Zilla Sainik Board Ahmedabad (Guj) is not issuing I Card for ESM status. Kindly advise him so that before our natural death we all ex APS pers could get the facility. My Army No is 8371614-H Ex Watrrant Officer J D Patel.

Anonymous said...

Dear WO JD Patel, i remember and may be i saw u r post before also in other compliant fourm. Who said Ex-APS are not ESM.various clarifications have been issued time to time from MoD to authorities in this regard. contact your Saink Welfare Dept quoting MoD lr OM NO 1(9)/2010/D(Res.I)dated 20th/21st July 2011. Your approach to be a firm one. contact me at woomai.woomai@ymail.com

Anonymous said...

Why Hon'ble Armed Forces Tribunal Orders are not implemented so far ? Who is responsible for that ?For Ex serviceman status Hon'ble Armed Forces Tribunal has told that after 15 years of job soldiers/JOCs are entitled for ESM status but in Army Postal Service Corps this order is so far not been implemented. Resulted Lacs of EX APS pers are waiting for favourable reply from Army HQ.DSSA Board Ahmedabad is not issuing Identity Cards to Ex APS Personnel. This is very shameful for Indian Army. This is sad news for APS persons. Recently our one Ex APS person Shri V M Raval win the case in Hon'ble AFT Delhi & he is only one person who is getting facility of ESM.

ramanan said...

Hello Ex-APS u all should be treated as Ex-Servimen as per the definition available in http://www.dgrindia.com/ go to the site and click "WHO IS AN EX-SERVICEMEN" download the file DEFI_ESM.DOC read page 2 its clear. Also go to the Dept.of Personnel, Grievance and Pension site and down load Notification dt.04/10/2012 which is latest for the ESM

Anonymous said...

Respected Ramanan Sab kindly refer your remark dated 03 Nov 2012. Sir one of our person Ex JCO Shri Darji Sab recently approached to the Officer of DSSA Board and appriased fact regarding ex servicemen status. In reply the Officer told that they are waiting to enter Army Postal Service Regiment/Corps in to Gazette of Director General resettlement board. Otherwise they are un-able to treat ex servicemen of all APS personnel. Kindly ask to Director Gen Resettlement board to enter Army Postal Service Regiment/Corps in their List and communicate to all DSSA Board of India. One one person who attain age 83 years he has done appx 10 years service in Army Postal service he got ESM through Hon'ble Armed Forces Tribunal New Delhi. So may pers died natural death and fight for ESM but not gain benefit.

ramanan said...

Sir, thk u for communicating. Pl enter u r minimum needed profile and identity hereafter. I dont think so that they wait for the gazette notification. it is upto the Zilla/Rajya Sainik WelfBrd to amend their bye-laws through the respective State Govt. Gazettes, time to time. The case u refer to is Ex-WO Raval. It was a very old story. even otherwise, u will be issued with id card. may be they're in need of some clarifications in r/o persnls recruited after 14/04/1987 as said in the MoD lr dt.20&21/07/2011.

Anonymous said...

Sir, In so many Indian films a scene comes that An ex soldier who injured in war and lost one leg and wondering here and there for the purpose of Pension and other aids but all authorities treating like barking Dog. The same situation facing by Ex Army Postal Service personnel. We some time approached to DSSA Board for ESM facilities but they expressed in-ability and told thet Name of Army Postal Service Regiment is not published in Gazette of Director General Resettlement. This is the height of cruelty. Why the authority is blind and deaf ? We have done job more then 15 years in Indian Army. My Army No is 8371614-H Ex Warrant Officer
J D Patel.

Anonymous said...

Major Navdeep sir, thanks a lot I am very happy when you replied me. I feel some one officer is with us I told every ex APS personnel of Ahmedabade Gujarat. It is to intimate that, DSSA Board Ahmedabad Gujarat is repeatedly told us that Name of Army Postal Service Regiment/Corps is not published in the Gazette of Director General Resettlement. They told and & when it published they will issue Identity cards as issued to regular Ex Military personnel. Till time they express ub-ability to help all of ex Army Postal Service personnel. In old film/Cinema a scene comes that a ex soldier walking on one leg due to war injury and wondering here & there and approaching authority for Pension and other help but authority treating like barking Dog. The same situation we all Ex APS personnel experienced. Kindly help us. My Army No is 8371614-H EX Warrant Office J D Patel. I have done 17 years 06 Months cheerful job in Indian Army. I have certificate signed by the then President of India Gyani Zail Singh that recruited in Regular Indian Army in Bharatiya Thal Sena. We all are having such certificate.

ramanan said...

Dear WO JD Patel, dont compare APS personnel to those of poor filmy situations. Every Uniform men have their own respects. The cases will be settled positively soon en-mass. There are lot other important problems like OROP, MSP arrears from mid 80s etc. to be resolved for the ESM flock of this nation, pending for a very long time. ESM Status for APS will be accorded to the personnel before the corps day celebrations ie.1st March. Hope the best.

Anonymous said...

Sir, u r wrong. The Certificate is not signed by the President of India in his name, but the Deputy Secretary of the MoD, GOI

Anonymous said...

Hello Anonymous remark dated 06 Dec 2012. My reply is as under :-.
Can Dy Secretary of the MOD GOI can sign as Gyani Zail Singh in Hindi & English both ?

But I agreed it may be in already printed signatures which are available in our certificates of all ex APS personnel

We are not demanding pension and other benefits but only demanding to issue Identity card as issued all ex Army personnel by DSSA Board Ahmedabad, Gujarat. At least treat ex servicemen those who have done more then 15 years service in Army Postal Service. They should follow orders of Armed Forces Tribunal orders given in the case of Ex Warrant Officer V M Raval by AFT Delhi and then AFT Chandigarh cases of 60 APS pers. Instead of helping me you searching for querry in my representation ?

Anonymous said...

Sorry WO Patel, if u feel i offended u. The fact is that as per the Min of Per,Pub Greiv and Pens, Notificatio0n Dt 04/10/2012 (which is the latest)personnel who were on deputation in Army Postal Service for more than Six months prior to 14th April 1987, will be treated as ESM or otherwise those who are directly dischd from APS and draws pension. This is the present position. More over the MoD and other Depts are concerned more about the Arrear issue 1986 and OROP. This the fact. May be I can help u.

ramanan said...

Sir, sorry for what i said if hurts u. I didnt mean as u presume. more over, I saw a simlr post frm a WO in a link http://www.complaintboard.in/complaints-reviews/ex-serviceman-welfare-dgr-l98329.html dt. 5/5/12 who states, his DoE in APS is 21/01/1987 & DoD is 31/07/2004. His disch book bearing seal on every page as "NON-ESM". If u hapnd to have any simlr entry, first sent your disch bk to ur RO and get the taboo removed. As per the latest Notification from Min of Pers,Pub Greiv & Pens, dt.4/10/12, it reads "Personnel, who were on deputation in Army Postal Service for more than six months prior to 14th April 1987", are to be granted ESM Status. Surely, I can help u to my maximum possible extend, if pass on me your full particulars to email id. ramanankaps@gmail.com. U r case is genuine and can be resolved. regards.

Anonymous said...

Hello, WO JD Patel, did u send your Disch-Bk to your RO to get it renewed with ESM Status.

Anonymous said...

JD Patel is requested to send his discharge book to APS Records for affixing Ex-Serviceman stamp.JD Patel must remember the days spent with Major SK Banerjee in Jodhpur.

Anonymous said...

Sir, Kindly see your Anonimous remarks on 27 Dec 2012 and there after. Yes Sir, I did. I submitted my Dischareg book to The Chief Record Officer, Army Postal service Centre, Kamptee for amendmment as Ex servicemen in stead of, already affixed rubber stamp as "Non Ex servicenmen" on each pages. May the god will give him good sense to the appropriate authority who are preparing Rules.

Anonymous said...

Sir, I again approached DSSA Board, Gaurav senani Bhavan, Nr Drive in Cinema Ahmedabad (Gujarat)regarding ex servicemen status. They asked me there is no order received from Resettlement Board by them and also asked that Name of Army Postal Service so far not published in Gazette of AHQ/ Resettlemet Board. As such they un-able to treat Ex servicemen. Kindly convince him to issue Identity Cards to all APS those who have served more then 15 years service in the Army. It is the matter of proud. Why they are not issuing Identity cards ? It is our right. We are not demanding pension and other benefits as given to regular Army ex servicemen, neither demanding promotion or Increment after rejoining duty in Department of Post. But only demanding Identity card from DSSA Board, Ahmedabad (Guj) for our own recognisation that the job done in Army. My Army No is 8371614-H Ex Warrant Officer J D Patel I was enrolled in Army on 21 Jan 1987 and SOS from Army on 01 Jul 2004. Last service don at AHQ, New Delhi. Hon'ble Armed Forces Tribunal Orders are so far not implemented. This should be tretaed as contempt of Court and it should be severly viewed by the Hon'ble Armed Forces Tribunal.

ramanan said...

Dear WO JD Patel Sir, Pl click the link http://desw.gov.in/circulars wherein u click the "Notification in amendments ....." at right side of the web page, download the .pdf file, which is the latest. Read the contents at page 2, para 2(1)(c)(iv) which clearly states APS pers are ESM who are served for six months prior to 14/04/1987. Show this order to your Sainik Dept. regards.

Anonymous said...

Sir, further to above remarks it is kindly requested that we all lost trust from the authority Maximum pers of APS not approaching to higher authotrity due to they all in habit of giving good regard to army autyhorities.

But they forget that that Big authority of regular Army are always with Ex APS. They knows our resky job in Army. A day will come they will give Ex Servicemen status. Our so many pers also died in war, so many pers died in face to face firing with enemy with effect from year 1948 onwards. Postal service was introduced since so many years.

So I am asking authority dont advise us anything in this matter.We knows better then you

ramanan said...

Well said and Hats-off to you WO JD Patel. Regards. Ex-WO S Ramanan.

Anonymous said...

NON RECEIPT OF EX SERVICEMEN STATUS EVEN AFTER DONE JOB IN ARMY MORE THEN 15 YEARS

Sir, with due respect I am requesting that, again we met with DSSA Board Ahmedabad (Gujarat)and requested to issue Identity Card as issued all ex servicemen. But they refuse to issue Identity card to ex Army Postal Service personnel with plea that no orders have received by them from AHQ. To serve in Indian Army more then 15 year, Is it a Jok ? Then why authority treating us like barking Dog ? My Army No is 8371614-H
Ex Warrant Officer J D Patel done job in Army Postal Service from 21 Jan 1987 to 30 Jul 2004 and achieved four Medals from Army. But I will return my Discharge Book and Medals to President of India being no meaning to keep.

Anonymous said...

Many Army Post Office pers., got Canteen Card and ESM Id cards. Even those completed only six months svce as on 14/04/1987 got it. This gentleman may contact the Records or Army HQ Postal Dte., Officials. He served 15 yrs and more, very lengthy service. He will be extended the facility. He shall Try through the Records.

Anonymous said...

sir , who is called non pensioner ex service man? I have served for 12 years in IAF and got discharged at my own request after getting selected for a civil post.i got gratuty also. am i eligible to be claeed an ex service man for age relaxation purposes in any central Govt Jobs:

Anonymous said...

Sir, u r full particulars have not been given ie.when u retrd etc., Also, u r ex-IAF in receipt of gratuity. Pl go thro' GoI latest gazettee dt 10/10/2012. if u pass on ur email id, i'll attch the copy to u.

Anonymous said...

Sir, Kindly help me. Further to above remark dated 16 Feb 2013and above. It is to intimate that I am not retired from Army after completion of 17 years & 06 months job but dischaged from Army and repatriate to my parent department i.e. department of posts. I have served in Army on deputation from civil department of posts. And served in army postal service wef 21 Jan 1987 to 30 Jun2004. And got four Medals from Army. I am not taking pension being not entitled. So I required only Identity card from DSSA Board Ahmedabad but they refused to issue Identity card to all ex APS personnel with plea that name of APS Corps/Regiment not entered in the list of Resettlement board, R K Puram New Delhi. My Army no is 8371614-H Ex Warrant Officer J D Patel. Now what shall I do ? Authority is treating like barking Dog. Why ? After Death in Army they are giving full facility but came alive from Army they treating like barking Dog. Is it correct ? Armed Forces Tribunal Orders are so far not implemented. Should I file case in Armed Forces Tribunal ?

Anonymous said...

Sir, the rmrk md on 16/02/2013 is in r/o an IAF Pers. It is not for u. Here, rply for u r post Dt. 20/02/12. Further, you have not mentioned whether u sent ur Disc.Bk to ur RO for affixing "ESM" Status rubber stamp. Pl send ur Disch.Bk to RO, if not sent earlier. In ur previous post dt.31/12/2012 u said that the Disch.Bk has been sent to your Records. Then, what was the reply frm u r Record Office?
1. Govt of India has issued a Gazette dt.10/10/2012 regarding revised status of ESM, in which "Pers who were on deputation to APS for more than six months prior to 14/04/1987" are all ESM.
2. Accordingly its known that many Ex-APS pers. were accorded ESM Status viz. Full Canteen Facilities, ESM ID Cards, ECHS etc.this process has been done in many State Sainik Welfare Depts. I get lot of responses, that APS pers are started getting all the benefits from their State Govt.
I understand how far u r aggrieved, so pl if u can pass on u r email id I will send you all the relevant docs and help u. Your case is deserving one, as u served more than 15 yrs in Uniform Svce. Approaching AFT will consume lot of time and money, its not easy task. pl think over. Best wises.

Sathish Vakkala said...

Sir,

nice meeting you sir. Its not a comment, just an query. I have served 6 years of service as a CFN/TCM(RO)in Indian army under EME corps and released on compassionate grounds. I have taken discharge certificate also but stated me as NON EX-SERVICEMEN.
1. Now may i eligible for civil services or not?
2. May i get a job in civil services under ex-servicemen quota?
3. May i get any seniority in civil services?
4. May i get pay fixation benefit in civil services?
please reply to my mail id.
Thank you sir.

Anonymous said...

You please go through Govt of India Gazette dt.10/10/2012 issued for ESM Status

Anonymous said...

For JD Patel, Ex-APS pers. Hello, have u received ur Disch.Bk. renewing with ESM status from your APS REcord Office???. Refer to your post dt. 31/12/2012

Anonymous said...

Dear JD Patel, Recently orders have been issued to APS Records to issue ESM book to all those who are entitled for the ESM status. Hope you will get order very soon.
















ramanan said...

Good news for WO(APS)JD Patel, pl go through for the latest orders dt. 10/04/2013 in r/o all the Ex-Army Postal Service personnel at the web site http://www.desw.gov.in/sites/upload_files/desw/files/pdf/DESW-OM-Dated%2010-April2013.pdf

thomas mathew said...

Sir
I am an ex-serviceman.
Presently working in a Nationalized Bank far away from Home.
I* got this job by under Ex-service category.
What I want to know is that am I eligible for at least age relaxation for getting a job in govt.sector.
Or my Ex-service man status for applying job in civil completely ceased.
Please reply
With Rgds
Thomas Mathew
E.id- thomas45mathew@ymail.com

Jagdishchandra Patel said...

Sir, Further to your above replies I convey my sincere thanks all of you. Sir three days before we six Ex Army Postal Service personnel met with DSSA Board Gujarat Ahmedabad. We requested that :-

(a) We do not demanding for pension, for service done more then sixteen years (16 years)in army.

(b) We demanding for Identity card as issued to Ex Army men.

In Reply they told :-

All of you are not entitled for Identity cards. They told that they have taken up case with concern authority and requested to wait.

Such type of reply they are giving from so may years. So many personnel have expired after natural death till their hope that they will issue Identity card but they left for heaven.

Please guide us, Should we file a case in Court ? We all having done service in Army more then sixteen years. My Army No is 8371614 H Ex Warrant Officer J D Patel. I have done service in Army Postal Service Corps from 21 Jan 1987 to 31 Aug 2004. I have an appointment letter issued by Hon'ble Shri Gyani Zail Singh, the then President of India.

Anonymous said...


NON ISSUE OF IDENTITY CARD TO EX ARMY POSTAL SERVICE PERSONNEL BY DSSA BOARD GUJARAT AHMEDABAD

SIR, STILL DSSA BOARD GUHARAT AHMEDABAD IS NOT ISSUING IDENTITY CADS TO EX ARMY POSTSAL SERVICE PERSONNEL. WHERE AS THE SAME HAS BEEN ISSUE BY ALL OVER INDIA EXCEPT GUJARAT, AHMEDABAD.

SIR, WHETHER THE RULE FOR GUJARAT IS SEPARATE ? THIS STATE IS NOT PART OF INDIA ? THEN WHY DSSA BOARD GUJARAT AHMEDABAD IS NOT ISSUING IDENTITY CARD TO EX APS PERSONNEL ? WE HAVE DONE JOB IN ARMY MORE THEN 15 YEARS AND GOT MEDALS. WE ARE NOT DEMANDING PENSION BUT ONLY DEMANDING IDENTITY CARDS AS ISSUE TO OTHER EX ARMY PERSONEL

SIR SHOULD WE FILE CASE IN COURT ? I HAVE DONE JOB IN ARMY FROM 21 JAN 1987 TO 31 AUG 2004. MY ARMY NO IS 8371614 H EX WARRANT OFFICER JD PATEL. IN OLD PICTURE/CINEMA A SCENE COMES THAT A SEPOY CAME BACK FROM ARMY ON PENSION. DUE TO WAR INJURY IS WALKING ON ONE LEG. HE IS APPROACHING VARIOUS AUTHORITIES FOR PENSION BUT AUTHORITY TREATING LIKE BARKING DOG. THE SAME SITUATION WE ARE FEELING. WE DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT TO DO ? WE ARE SEEKING GOOD ADVISE FROM YOU FOR FURTHER NECESSARY ACTION IN THIS MATTER.



jdpatel



Anonymous said...

OPERATION ATTACK

Sir still reply is awaited. If you have patriotism, If you love India then your blood should be boiled for irregularities against your brother. Sir, I have done service in Indian Army for more then 17 years but DSSA board Gujarat Ahmedabad is not issuing I Card to me as issued to all ESM personnel. My Army No is 8371614-H EX Warrant Officer J D Patel. My Mob No Is 9909896435 I do not demand for pension but demanding Identity card only.

When I came back from Army in the year 2004 and reported to DSSA Board for issue of I card in reply they told me that Army Postal Service personnel please don't come in this office. Because you were not ASLI FAUZI"

Please tell me What is bloody ASLIU Nakli Fauzi" Is the bullet from Enemy will ask you to go one side ASLI Fauzi ? & Nakli Fauzi to other side? Therefore, I ask to your kind authority, what is rule for served for Nation 24 hours in Indian Military & wear 24 hrs Dress ? is the reply from DSSA board, Gujarat Ahmedabad is correct ? President of India the then President Gyani Zail singh has issued certificate to me regarding recruited in Regular Army in Indian Military Department. It was wrong ?
Sir After Discharge from Army I have applied for Refrigerator, the then Manager Air Port Road Gujarat Ahmedabad refused to accept docs/ and told me that you are from Army Postal service hence not authorised because DSSA Board has not issued I Card. After that I could not purchase that Refrigerator and returned Bank Draft to SBI Girdharnagar, Ahmedabad. Sir What is Bloody Asli Nakli Fauzi In the Indian Army ?
Is it correct ? If such irregularity going on then who will come in Army for wasting their time, wasting Jawani and Budhapa also.
This is very shameful.

Anonymous said...

Sir DSSA Board Gujarat, Gaurav Senani Bhavan Ahmedabad-380052 is not issuing identity card to me. I have done job in Army 17 years 06 months and wear 24 hrs Army dress. DSSA Board is giving evasive reply and not issuing Identity card to Ex Army Postal service personnel. My Army No is 8371614 H Ex Warrant Officer J D Patel. Please advise me what shell I do ? I could not purchase big Items from CSD Canteen. CSD Canteen Authority asking me where is Identity card ? but I Card is not issued by DSSA Board. They asking you were not Asli Fauzi. That means I wasted my 17 years 06 months in Army like a Prisoners ? and got nothing ? I am not demanding Pension but demanding I Card only from DSSA Board. If I were died in Army service then such type bloody fool will never give proper reply to family also. It is understood.

dungala mahesh said...

after five years gd service discharge benefits

Kaliprasad Mishra said...

If an exservicemen joined in central Govt Job passing through the SSC 2012. He is now in probation period.

He also applied SSC 2013 using ex-servicemen quota expecting good results. He had to join the job due to unanticipated result process SSC 2013 and Court Stay order.

Plz clarify that:

1. Whether he can avail again the quota during the probation period for other jobs.

2. Whether he can re-use if he resigns the job during the probation period.

3. Under which conditions the quota is remain unused if he joined any type of service earlier.

4. Whether he can re-use the SSC 2013 since in probation period.

Kaliprasad Mishra

Anonymous said...

i am an exseviceman served in IAF for 9 yrs and 5 days and dicsharged after completion of regular term of engagement i am paid penury grant in lumpsum and not on monthly basis i am actually need of money every month for medicine.Also why i am denied the ECHS benefit A non pensioner exserviceman Rank is Ac1 and the Servce No is 251978.hope u may consider my case and early disposal . Thank u sir,

PT Angdoo said...

I have joined Indian army in 1991 and discharged from service on my request on 1997 after completion of 5years 182 days . am I entitled for CSD facility.

Anonymous said...

Non pensioner ESM who served at frontlines of at least one of the 1962 - 1965 - 1971 wars and completed a full tenure of 3 years in the Operation Theater and was discharged of no disciplinary action after 7.5 year service should be granted pension and benefits.

Sathish Vakkala said...

Those who are served above 5 years in defence services, they are eligible for CSD facilities.