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Saturday, November 22, 2008

Saturday rumour killer....


The cyberspace and corridors of power are rife with rumours. The biggest one being that the core anomalies have been rejected and the file has reached the PMO and that all demands (except enhanced pensionary weightage to PBOR) stand discarded.

This is wrong. While the govt is still deliberating the issues, no demand has been rejected as on date.

Moreover, I would urge some of my friends to be a little patient. Contrary to popular perception, there was no time-frame for the GoM to come up with its recommendations. The ‘by diwali’ comment was an off the cuff utterance referring to the adhoc arrears. Can you imagine a committee of three busy ministers coming up with a solution for a million strong force within a few days when the Pay Commission and subsequent bodies took more than 2 years for the same. Of course, they need to be quick, but we need to give them some space…it’s just a matter of days now. Instead of praying for a quickie, we should hope for a well rounded decision sealing the matter for all times to come and also for an independent assessment by the GoM without much dependence on what is fed by the Ministry of Finance and their imaginary equivalence.

Oh, by the way, here is the new order on revised allowances. The acceptance of the new inflation protection clause is a welcome move. Otherwise basically all allowances stand doubled except funeral allowance which stands quadrupled. Ironic, isn’t it ?



Anonymous said...

@ Navdeep,
This post should have come out last saturday, when there was a buzz in corridors of power that something would be announced, and left most almost despondant.

Secondly, it is also fairly certain that some decision is expected soon, with some cheer for the forces.(maybe little bit muted?)

Thirdly, thanks for the revised allowances list, but can u tell us what's the status on LTC/Leave/On duty?
Many of us are due for some leave in the end of the year.

Anonymous said...

@ Navdeep,
Apologise for sounding demanding, but this blog has become the beacon of hope and information for all of us.
Hope u understand. Once again, thanking you for the selfless yeoman service u are rendering for a noble cause.

Ajith said...

Unconfirmed but from reliable sources it is learnt that the GoM has submitted their report to PMO with all demands of the forces agreed to, The announcement could be made any time soon.
sorry not in a position to disclose the sources.

Anonymous said...

dear navdeep the pbor pre-2006 pensioners condition is not good but pbor thought after sixth pay commission their condition will be improved but nothig has been increased pension for pre-2006 pensioners . they thoght that after sixth pay commission they will get full pension becoz they are not able to complete 33 years .
post 2006 pbor wil get full pension after 15 years of service but pre-2006 pbor will get full pension after 33 years of service.
so pls give me answer why govt took this decision and will this be anomaly removed?pls give me the ans thanksssss

D Lt Col said...

"We are more comfortable with negative information than we are with uncertainty - even when the outcome of that uncertainty could be positive.“ Thank you Navdeep. You definitely reduce stress.

Anonymous said...

It is good 2 know that all offrs can hope 2 retire with at least PB-4 pension .Condition of PBOR is hopeless on that account.

Anonymous said...

Dear sir

Imaginary equations,how were they borne and tolerated all these 5 decades

Hope these imaginary issues are sorted out and done away with and buried for ever

Waiting for the good news


abcd said...

chk this link
why no body is questioning non inclusion of defence member as recommended by parliamentary committee?

Anonymous said...

dear ajith
that soon is likely to be how soon one week?

Anonymous said...

dear navdeep the pbor pre-2006 pensioners condition is not good but pbor thought after sixth pay commission their condition will be improved but nothig has been increased pension for pre-2006 pensioners . they thoght that after sixth pay commission they will get full pension becoz they are not able to complete 33 years .
post 2006 pbor wil get full pension after 15 years of service but pre-2006 pbor will get full pension after 33 years of service.
so pls give me answer why govt took this decision and will this be anomaly removed?pls give me the ans thanksssss

Anonymous said...

@Ajith..is your really true? As such v r tired of all these so called "Reliable Sources"..

devendra said...

maj navdeep
Stop writting on pay commission write on reform in army.What a shame a lt gen being court marshelled.If property of all gen is scrutnised we may find more than 70% general court marsheled.

Anonymous said...


Much better than even the clerks in your organisation who would be earning more than our Generals.

Your shitting in your pants while sitting on the damn chair in your mixed organisation would not change the army's status, devendra ji. Stop giving sermons to Navdeep.

Anonymous said...


dear friend..

u have the cheecks to spk about the general because army only caught him..how many people in ur organisation have been caught by u can u pl tell..

if all bosses of ur organisation r scrutinised 100% will be caught in corruption..

y r u not talking about reforms in ur organisation..

army or navdeep has definately not

appointed u as their advisor...

so layoff and give this advise in ur organisation

by the way have u decalared all ur assets which r more than 25000/- rs..if not then wake up..u r in the same boat.

* said...

small correction
Out fit allowance has been increased 2.3333 times for IPS/CPOs
and 1.6666 times for armed forces

Anonymous said...

Yeh is liye kyonki nanga karne ke baad aapko uniform ki jaroorat naa ke baraabar padegi

vasudev said...

A small correction. The GOM did not decide for a one million force, but it was for a few thousand officers since the PBOR issue was decided as such. The Delay & Deny mode was due to the LT Gen issue and the fixation of Brig as they would have become senior to SAG.
It is still in Delay mode. Deny I doubt but Delay there will be.

Anonymous said...

Patience is the need of the hour.
Let all anomalies be so removed and worded that in future, none can manuplate to our disadvantage.

mvjoshi69@gmail.com said...

Dear Navdeep,
Methinks the deed is done: I have got the pay slip for Oct and I am in PB3 despite being a substantive Lt Col. The grade pay too is for PB3. CDA says it is tentative but I am sure we have lost this battle...

Anonymous said...

Dear Lt Col Joshi,
All AF Lt Col equivalents have got PB3 scale in Oct. Even the Nov slip will have PB 3. Its Dec, post resolution of anomalies, that we might get placed in PB 4

Anonymous said...

First Navdeep came out in defense of the IAS and now he defends the bureaucracy,dunno why!!!Anyway,we all know how things work in India.We are still sticking to the "Have faith"ideology as professed by him.Lets hope that our hopes are not belied!!


The_Wizard_of_Id said...

Shut up and Vote because presently at Delhi-

KING is a FINK : and Ipso facto

Remove the fink democratically

rekha said...

I am wg cdr with 14 years of srevice, my tenure is compliting in Dec 2009 after 15 years of active service. Till date no disposal regarding further extension of service or permanent commission has been intimated to me more so after the cabinet approval. This uncertaintity continues in the minds of most of the SSC officers nearing retirement. Is PC only considered for new inductees? What is the fate of those who have already put in 14/15 years of service and about to retire.Is IAF playing around with carrier of their officers who are experienced? IAF does not seem to have enough time out of their red tapiesm. This hue is further complicated by ambiguity in pay commission.
The question remains that by shunting out experienced manpower, is the Armed Forces going to benefit or lose. It is very demoralising to see our Commanders behave so irreponsibly and careless about issues that matters to thousands of serving personnel. It is never too late. Still there is time to recover and rethink on core issues rather than sweep crucial mattwers unser the carpet.

pawan said...

"* said...
small correction
Out fit allowance has been increased 2.3333 times for IPS/CPOs
and 1.6666 times for armed forces"

could you please explain as to how the increase is 1.66 times for defence ? It practically works out to be NO INCREASE.

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous at 9.02 PM

I can't see any defence of the bureaucracy by Navdeep as said by you. He has just floated a balanced viewpoint.

Perhaps we do not have the system now of hearing balanced and rounded views in this time of media extremism

ANS said...

a)The undue haste in pushing through Nuclear Deal towards fag end of present Govt tenure.
b)Sri Amar Singh(sworn enemy of INC)joining hands with the Govt to bail them out.
c)Resorting to the most unethical MP trading to save the Govt.
d)Increased pitch of Regionalism (Maratha Manus).
e)Attempt to marginalise The Defence Forces (Pay Commission)
e)Tarnish the image of Armed Forces (Malegaon).
f)Attempt to show the Hindus in poor light(Pragya,Dayanand,Ravi Shankar,RSS...)
a)Is all this happening as part of some design or merely coincidence?
b)Some ouside hand to disturb the National serenity?

IndianACE said...

PB-4 or not.
army's got to vote
It keeps the leaders tight
It is our democratic right

One of nation's greatest institutions
Groans under sundry insinuations
blokes,get ready to fight
It is our democratic right

Vested Interests, aiming to shame
Maybe our own past antipathy to blame
But atleast now, see the light
It is our democratic right

It is a debilitating game
Don't be a beggar, lame
The future will be bright
It is our democratic right

PB-4 or not.
army's got to vote
It keeps the leaders tight
It is our democratic right.

Ajith said...

@ Rekha
There is something brewing up here.
"The government's policy decision, however, did not go down well with the High Court which directed it not to overlook the cause of the serving women officers."
Read full news here.


pawan said...

Out fit allowance has been increased 2.3333 times for IPS/CPOs
and 1.6666 times for armed forces

could anyone please explain as to how the increase is 1.66 times for defence ? It practically works out to be NO INCREASE.

Anonymous said...

The writer is a former banker who was with the SBI Group and DSP Merrill Lynch Ltd. Here is a very dispassionate view by a rank outsider.I' m sure many of us didn't think on these lines of reasoning earlier.
Makes good reading and sense even !

We need a permanent solution to this tussle over emoluments so that the armed forces need only confront the enemies of the nation,

In the continuing debate on pay scales for the armed forces, there has to be a serious and transparent effort to ensure that the country is not faced with an unnecessary civil-military confrontation. That effort will have to come from the netas, who are the real and true bosses of the armed forces and not the civil bureaucracy. A solution may lie in what follows.

This country requires the best armed forces, the best police and the best civil service. In fact that is what the British ensured.. By best one means that a person chooses which service he wants as per his desires/capabilitie s and not based on the vast differential in prospects in the various services. How much differential is there? Take Maharashtra, one of the most parsimonious with police ranks thus still retaining some merit - the 1981 IPS batch have become 3-star generals, the 1987 are 2-star and the 1994 1-star.. In the army the corresponding years are 1972, 1975, 1979. – ie a differential of 10-15 years. While the differential is more with the IAS, the variance with the IPS is all the more glaring because both are uniformed services and the grades are "visible" on the shoulders.

First some general aspects. Only the armed forces are a real profession – ie where you rise to the top only by joining at the bottom. We have had professors of economics become Finance Secretaries or even Governors of RBI. We have any number of MBBSs, engineers, MBAs, in the police force though what their qualifications lend to their jobs is a moot point. You can join at any level in the civil service, except Cabinet Secretary. A civil servant can move from Animal Husbandry to Civil Aviation to Fertilisers to Steel to yes, unfortunately, even to Defence.. But the army never asks for Brigade Commanders or a Commandant of the Army War College or even Director General Military Intelligence, even from RAW or IB. Army officers can and have moved into organizations like IB and RAW but it is never the other way round. MBBS and Law graduates are only in the Medical or JAG Corps and do nothing beyond their narrow areas. Every Army Chief - in any army - has risen from being a commander of a platoon to company to battalion to brigade to division to corps to army. In fact the professionalism is so intense that no non-armoured corps officer ever commands an armoured formation – first and possibly only exception in world military history – General K. Sunderji. Perhaps it is this outstanding professionalism that irks the civil services.

Next, one must note the rigidity and steep pyramid of the army's rank structure. In the civil services any post is fungible with any grade based on political expediency and the desires of the service. For example I know of one case where one department downgraded one post in another state and up-graded one in Mumbai just to enable someone continue in Mumbai after promotion! You can't fool around like this in the armed forces. A very good Brigadier cannot be made a Major-General and continue as brigade commander. There has to be a clear vacancy for a Major General and even then there may be others better than him. Further the top five ranks in the army comprise only 10% of the officer strength. Contrast this with the civil services where entire batches become Joint Secretaries.

Even the meaning of the word "merit" is vastly different in the army and the civil services. Some years back an officer of the Maharashtra cadre claimed that he should be the Chief Secretary as he was first in the merit list. Which merit list? At the time of entry more than 35 years before! The fact is that this is how merit is decided in the IAS and IPS. Every time a batch gets promoted the inter-se merit is still retained as at the time of entry. In other words if you are first in a batch at the time of entry, then as long as you get promoted, you continue to remain first! This is like someone in the army claiming that he should become chief because he got the Sword of Honour at the IMA. Even a Param Vir Chakra does not count for promotion, assuming that you are still alive. In the armed forces, merit is a continuous process - each time a batch is promoted the merit list is redrawn according to your performance in all the previous assignments with additional weightage given not only to the last one but also to your suitability for the next one. Thus if you are a Brigade Commander and found fit to become a Major General, you may not get a division because others have been found better to head a division. That effectively puts an end to your promotion to Lt. General.

The compensation package must therefore address all the above issues. In each service, anyone must get the same total compensation by the time he reaches the 'mode rank' of his service. "Mode" is a statistical term – the value where the maximum number of variables fall. In the IAS normally everyone reaches Director and in the IPS it is DIG. In the army, given the aforementioned rank and grade rigidities and pyramidical structure, the mode rank cannot exceed Colonel. Thus a Colonel's gross career earnings (not salary scales alone) must be at par with that of a Director. But remember that a Colonel retires at 54, but every babu from peon to Secretary at 60 regardless of performance. Further, it takes 16-18 years to become a Colonel whereas in that time an IAS officer reaches the next higher grade of Joint Secretary, which is considered equal to a Major General. These aspects and others - like postings in non-family stations - must be addressed while fixing the overall pay scales of Colonel and below. Thereafter a Brigadier will be made equal to a Joint Secretary, a Major-General to an Additional Secretary and a Lt. General to a Secretary. The Army Commanders deserve a new rank - Colonel General - and should be above a Secretary but below Cabinet Secretary. The equalization takes place at the level of Cabinet Secretary and Army Chief. If this is financially a problem I have another solution. Without increasing the armed forces' scales, reduce the scales of the IAS and IPS till they too have 20% shortage. Done? Even India 's corruption index will go down.

If the above is accepted in principle, there is a good case to review the number of posts above Colonel. Senior ranks in the armed forces have become devalued with more and more posts being created. But the same pruning exercise is necessary in the IAS and more so in the IPS, where Directors General in some states are re-writing police manuals – one is doing Volume I and another Volume II! Further the civil services have such facilities as "compulsory wait" – basically a picnic at taxpayers cost. And if you are not promoted or posted where you don't want to go they seem able to take off on leave with much ease. In the army you will be court-martialled. Also find out how many are on study leave. The country cannot afford this.

Let not someone say that the IAS and IPS exams are tougher and hence the quality of the officers better. An exam at the age of 24 has to be tougher than one at the age of 16. The taxpaying citizen is not interested in your essay/note writing capabilities or whether you know Cleopatra's grandfather. As a citizen I always see the army being called to hold the pants of the civil services and the police and never the other way round. That's enough proof as to who is really more capable. Also recall the insensitive statements made by the IG Meerut in the Aarushi case and the Home Secretary after the blasts. Further, when the IAS and IPS hopefuls are sleeping, eating and studying, their school mates, who have joined the army, stand vigil on the borders to make it possible for them to do so.

Remember that the armed forces can only fight for above the table pay. They can never compete with the civil services and definitely not with the police for the under the table variety.

Finally, there is one supreme national necessity. The political class – not the bureaucracy - which represents the real civil supremacy better become more savvy on matters relating to the armed forces. Till then they are at the mercy of the civil service, who frequently play their own little war games. At ministerial level there are some very specialized departments – Finance, Railways, Security (Home), Foreign and Defence, where split second decisions are necessary. It is always possible to find netas savvy in finance, foreign relations and railways.

Security has been addressed in getting a former IPS officer as NSA at the level of a MoS. Is it time that a professional is also brought into the Defence Ministry as MoS? The sooner the better. In fact this will be better than a CoDS because the armed forces will have someone not constrained by the Army Act or Article 33 of the Constitution. Of course the loudest howls will come from the babus. The netas must realize that a divide and rule policy cannot work where the country's security is concerned. Recall 1962?

Our army, already engaged in activities not core to their functions, including rescuing babies from borewells (!), should not have to engage in civil wars over their pay scales.

rekha said...

I am lady officer retiring from srevice as wg cdr in jun 08 after regular service of 15 years in Air Force. I want to join teritorialArmy/para milatary forces after retirement. How to join it, How to go about it. Is any preference to retired officers from Air force please advise. what is all about

Navdeep / Maj Navdeep Singh said...

Unfortunately, TA does not permit lady officers till date.

Paramilitary forces also do not offer any protection of seniority hence do not make a viable choice.



Anonymous said...


perhaps you can try WTLO in NCC