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Saturday, November 29, 2008

Heartfelt condolences irrespective of colour of uniform and some more clarity on the NSG

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Our hearts go out to all lives lost in the Mumbai terror attack irrespective of the colour of uniform. I was also pained to see some immature comments on this blog and elsewhere talking ill of policemen who were in the middle of the action and against Mr J K Dutt, DG NSG who was conducting most of the media briefing. The same immaturity was also shown by some others who said that it was not the Army but a Police Organisation (NSG) which deserved all credit.

Let me clarify.

The NSG comprises of two groups. The Special Action Group (SAG) which handles situations such as Mumbai and other anti-terror, anti-hijack and hostage rescue activities and the Special Ranger Group (SRG) which basically deals with VIP security.

The SAG in its entirety is constituted of Army personnel while the SRG comprises of personnel from the CPOs and also to a degree from the State Police Forces. Needless to say, the operation performed in Mumbai was by the SAG which purely comprises Army Personnel.

Now coming to Mr Jyoti Krishan Dutt. Being the DG NSG and the head of the organisation in thick of action, it was of course natural for him to have briefed the media and I don’t think he did a bad job. The officer is of the 1971 batch of the IPS and is also a recipient of the Police Medal for Gallantry. People who have left negative remarks for him may also have missed out the Sangram Medal ribbon for 1971 Indo-Pak war on his chest. Let us be more responsible in these times, let us not compare professionalism in different organisations, let us just hope that we are able to face this war collectively.

It is also necessary to promote initiative within the uniformed forces. When INS TABAR took on Somalian pirates, it was reported that certain elements in Delhi had castigated the Navy for not keeping them in picture, though later the Navy was rightfully given its pat.

The above reminds me of this situation : Click here for Black Humour on military initiative.

While the sacrifices of Maj Unnikrishnan, Mr Karkare and Hav Gajendra Singh have deservedly received our attention today, the death of Mr Ashok Kamte, another IPS officer of the 1989 batch who was cremated earlier was not much in the public eye. Mr Kamte, son of a Colonel and grandson of a former Police Chief of Maharashtra, was known to be a braveheart who had once physically taken on an MLA in Solapur. He had special attachment and fondness for the Army. He had also attended the Defence Services Staff College, Wellington.

May their souls rest in peace.

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110 comments:

JP said...

Good job again. the complete op was a bad show with most people trying to be the official face of the ops. What business is it of DGP Roy to give non sense statements to the press every 2 hours and he kept on repeating that there was only one militant inside Taj to highlight that army was unable to kill even one chap.

Another point where your expertise could be of help. There is an item called 'mess, band and wine' deduction, which is permitted exempmtion for income tax calculations but has not changed since last at least 20 years of my service. It would be interesting to find out the ratio of this exemption against the basic pay of that time to see its present logical scale.

Anonymous said...

JP dont forget DGP is SAG he is senior to all OG's and Whites in Mumbai He has all business to speak and have his presence felt though from safe and AC office. Thankfully NO IAS were present to F U the ops

A great job done HOPE Mr PM and his GOM understand and the advisors be ashamed on what they have done and are continuing to do

JAI HIND JAI HIND KI FAUJ

Anonymous said...

@Anony at 2.07

Sorry, sir but DG NSG is HAG + and is not senior to all.

He is junior to FOC-in-C of the IN and also to GOC-in-C Southern Command of the IA.

Mr JK Dutt is a known toughie and a good fauji kind of a guy. Let us not run him down.

Anonymous said...

No, DGP now has army commanders rank (Secy grade), but he is not senior to either FoC-in-C WNC, and GoC-in-C SAC, who were both at the spot.

DG NSG, I think, is junior to all.

If I may quibble Navdeep, NSG is not a police org. Its a mixed org, under the Home Ministry.

Anonymous said...

The Jihadis have finally got it right. After getting killed while killing the army in J&K, they've gone for the people who matter in this country. You see, people who frequent 7 star hotels don't send their sons in the army! So while Kashmir and NorthEast burned India's influential sipped their dry martinis. As Maj Mazumdar, on a news channel pointed out ... we do not know whether the survival of all members of parliament in the parliament attack was fortunate or unfortunate...
My condolences to the families of the fallen Maj and Hav; to 7 BIHAR for having lost an officer.
The DG NSG should be pulled up for losing the Maj & the NCO in what was entirely avoidable. The LeT buggers were not holding hostages - they had already killed whoever they came across since last 2 days, so what was the bloody hurry. If there was a tearing hurry then why did the Mr Dutt concede. Bloody unprofessional, if you ask me.

Navdeep / Maj Navdeep Singh said...

@Anonympus 2.17

Yes. That's what I have said in the post that it was immature for people to have referred to it as a Police org.

All DsGP are not in the apex grade. Only one cadre post in each state has been placed in the apex grade of Rs 80,000.

All DsG of CPOs are also not in apex grade.

As per the Warrant of Precedence 1979 (October 2007 version), Army Commanders and equivalent are on Article 23, other Lt Gens on Article 24 and DsG of CPOs on Article 25.

Thanks for your clarification though

Anonymous said...

GAG ORDER BY MOD ON THE SERVICES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!SHCOKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!PLZ LOG IN AND GIVE THIS WIDE PUBLICITY IN ALL MEDIA SITES!!!!!!!1

Anonymous said...

I keep wondering why do these Jihadis keep getting killed at the LC in horrible condition. So much simpler for them to take a boat and head for some Indian coastal town and pay a visit to some seven star hotel and meet the high and mighty of India instead of coming across tough infantry soldiers on the boarder. I think they are getting wiser. It is much more fun to die in a seven star hotel after making mincemeat of rich. Indian coastal towns need to be protected.

KK said...

PLEASE STOP ,PONDER AND REPLY THOU FAUJ BASHERS:
-WHOSE JOB IT WAS TO SECURE THE WATERS? DID I HEAR COAST GUARD?YES U R RIGHT.
-WHOSE JOB IT WAS TO ENSURE THAT PEOPLE ARE SAFE IN MUMBAI CITY AND WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE TO PREVENT BUILDUP OF ARSENAL BY THE TERRORISTS IN THE HOTELS AND NARIMAN HOUSE? CORRECT THE MUMBAI POLICE.
-WHO WAS SUPPOSED TO HAVE FOUGHT THESE TERRORISTS AND DESERVED TO DIE FIGHTING?I THINK UNDOUBTEDLY THE POLICE AND THE PARAMILITARY FORCES,IT BEING THEIR PRIME RESPONSIBILITY.
-WHO WAS NOT AT ALL REQUIRED TO BE INVOLVED BUT WAS THE ONLY ORG FULLY INVOLVED? YES THE ETERNAL SUCKER"THE FAUJ".
WHY FOR GOD'S SAKE WE DON'T LEARN.THE VERY PEOPLE WHO DENY AND VILIFY FAUJ ARE THE ONE'S WHO RUN TO GET IT'S HELP AT THE VERY FIRST OPPORTUNITY.WHAT AN IRONY.
WHY IS THE IAS UTILISING FAUJ FOR JOBS NOT MEANT FOR IT? AND IF THEY DO THEN WHY ARE THEY ASHAMED OF ACCEPTING THE FACT THAT FAUJ IS THE BEST SECURITY ORG THEY HAVE GOT AND CAN TRUST?AND IF THEY ARE THE LAST BASTION THEN WHY ARE THE ILLTREATED AND DEMORALISED BY THE IAS.

Anonymous said...

Dear sir

I have observed one thing in these blogs. One who has a different point of you or disagrees with the editorial is called UN-INFORMED

There will always be different points of view and different perceptions, that does not mean that such persons are all un-informed or not intelligent.

The editor or his views are not necessarily the most intelligent and most well informed views.It is very easy to critisise other's point of view.

All are Honourable Men out there, and I do not wish to comment any further on this issue.

Thanks

Navdeep / Maj Navdeep Singh said...

@Anonymous at 4.21

Dear Anony,

Unfortunately, I have no control over what people think or what they may want to write as comments. Neither would I like to gag anyone. Everyone is entitled to his or her view and that is the wonder of the right to speech and expression in our country. If you are accusing me for comments of other people, I'm sorry I cannot control the thought processes of others and would not like to. You are welcome to counter views expressed on this blog though.

I would not delete any comment (positive or negative) till there is any hint of a personal slant.

Thanks and sorry

Anonymous said...

ALL,

Mr Shekhar Gupta is at it again.......criticising the navy for the press conefernce.plz post against this in indian express and other sites

Anonymous said...

Too bad this shikhar gupta fellow wasn't there at one of the hotels. Even if the LeT sods had missed him, he would have become collateral damage!

Anonymous said...

Some gag order!
I saw an NCO from my unit, presently with 51, giving his thoughts in chaste hariyanvi!

Kaps said...

I have posted on IE site, but it is not to be seen.

Like always, a paid stooge has opened its mouth to sing like a well, stooge. What indoctrination in tactics and strategy do you have mr gupta to comment upon it? What strategic depth do you profess is implied from every police officer herding journos for a press conference? Can you not visualize the psychological effect on a trained terrorist of an unknown man addressing the media rather than starch uniform clad police officials pussy-footing about details they are not sure about? Talking about chain of command, who is responsible for it mr. gupta? This very govt that through 6th cpc has disturbed a well established command structure thus making every official worth his pay-band rushing to address media and corner glory for himself alone? What is wrong in CinC South not ruling out connections with Somali warlords? Can you rule it out Mr Gupta? But of course, with your deep knowledge about tactics and strategy, you can bunkum everything. Sad Mr Gupta!

ranjit said...

Dear Sir,
I wish, this would have been a black humour but tragically, in reality,the decomposed body is that of our organisation.

Anonymous said...

My heartfelt condolence's to martyr of Police forces and NSG commandos. Having served with NSG on deputation from Army till Jan 08, I had close association with Maj San deep during our deployment during World Military Games at Hyderabad. A cool headed, highly professional and a go-getter officer of 51 SAG. He always showed great concern for his men, which he proved during "Op Tornado" as we heard in media he sacrificed his life to save his injured commando. May God rest his soul in peace, we all salute you and other brave security personnel.

The NSG certainly has a highly trained personnel, but it needs to be re-structured.

Firstly, The concept of mix of Army, CPO's, civilian and IPS based organisation cannot work for such professional task due to different working culture of CPO's and Army.

Secondly, The NSG should not be considered as CPO's org even if it is under MHA, it should be autonomous organisation directly under CCS (Cabinet Committee on Security)

Thirdly, The administrative and support elements should be drastically reduced. The strength of NSG should be reduced to have more teeth than the tail.

Fourthly, the procurement procedure should be made much faster, it is surprisingly that the NSG follows the procurement procedure as in any other Govt deptt, which takes years (3-4 yrs) to procure operational equipment.

Fifthly, The deputation allowance to Force Units and Trg centre (consisting of SAG's, SRG's, SWS and CG's) should be as presently applicable i.e., 25% extra. Other support elements including HQ's should be reduced to 10%. It is sad that a CPWD, Hindi deppt, Medical, administrative deppt, etc at HQ's drawing same allowance than the commandos fighting the operation. This results in manipulation of internal deppt posting from operational unit to non-operational units/HQ's.

Restructuring Option of NSG:-

1. Withdraw Army personnel from NSG, let NSG be purely deputations force from PMF/IPS. These personnel be made to undergo same trg as available in NSG. The NSG then be organised as:-
(a) ATS at each state/region
(b) Anti- Naxal strike groups

2. A new organisation to be created by Three Armed forces to carry out very specialised operation. These should consist of following:-
(a) Marcos (Marine Commandos)
(b) Army Commandos (Withdrawn from NSG)
(c) Garud (Air Force Commandos)

Anonymous said...

People like Shekhar Gupta should be stripped of their freedom to speak & write IN THE INTEREST OF NATIONAL SECURITY. I just heard me on one of the news channel. One of the guest speaker said the the forces are made to demoralize with Chiefs of three armed forces being made to run from pillar to post for their pay. They can fight the army but not the babus. Shekhar Gupta was highly sarcastic and said that it was small of chiefs to run around for pay. Shame on Shekhar- 15 lakhs armed personnel can represent only these three personnel & more than safety of one billion people depends on these 15 lakhs people.I request all media channels to castigate Shekhar Gupta

arjun said...

ok let us not run down the NSG DG, but since only army component of the NSG was involved, the CO of 51 SAG or IG ops who is a fauji should have spoken. he was making concerted efforts not to mention army's rolr or laud them for periferal role. btw, where on earth is an army commandeered by police men? our general have always been a sold out case for gobernorial posts. the DG should appropriatly be an army officers. or separte SAG from SRG who have totally different roles.least the DG's post can be on rotation.
i knew kamte personally, he was a spirited man and had lot of respect for army, born in dehradun MH, wanted to join army but could not. he was a great guy as police commissioner.

Anonymous said...

ok let us not run down the NSG DG, but since only army component of the NSG was involved, the CO of 51 SAG or IG ops who is a fauji should have spoken. he was making concerted efforts not to mention army's rolr or laud them for periferal role. btw, where on earth is an army commandeered by police men? our general have always been a sold out case for gobernorial posts. the DG should appropriatly be an army officers. or separte SAG from SRG who have totally different roles.least the DG's post can be on rotation.
i knew kamte personally, he was a spirited man and had lot of respect for army, born in dehradun MH, wanted to join army but could not. he was a great guy as police commissioner.

arjun said...

ok let us not run down the NSG DG, but since only army component of the NSG was involved, the CO of 51 SAG or IG ops who is a fauji should have spoken. he was making concerted efforts not to mention army's rolr or laud them for periferal role. btw, where on earth is an army commandeered by police men? our general have always been a sold out case for gobernorial posts. the DG should appropriatly be an army officers. or separte SAG from SRG who have totally different roles.least the DG's post can be on rotation.
i knew kamte personally, he was a spirited man and had lot of respect for army, born in dehradun MH, wanted to join army but could not. he was a great guy as police commissioner.

Anonymous said...

*** UPDATE Nitin Gokhale of NDTV Reports ***

Nitin Gokhale, Defence Correspondent NDTV has reported that:

"Armed forces officers who came on TV were later told to shut up, by the highest quarters of government, they were told you cannot hog all the limelight, it is a NSG operation, forgetting completely that the special action group is comprised entirely of Army personnel".


Sometime yesterday, all reporting which till then had spoken of the MARCOS contribution, of the Armys arrival, has stopped talking about them at all.

It is now absolutely clearly evident that the bureaucrats are scared as hell that this popular suport for the armed forces will translate into a discussion of the outrageous injustice done to them at the pay commission level. It is also clear that the bad press that the military has been getting is originating from the bureaucracy.

Shekhar Dupatta has apparently already done a hit piece on Admiral Bedi, at the behest of the bureaucracy, for speaking on the op. Noone said anything to that oaf Maharashtra DG, AN Rai, who actually damaged the ops with his incompetent and nonsensical commentary.

It is time for the armed forces to fight for their rights. This nation rightly respects its military. I think the people deserve to know who is slandering our military.

Anonymous said...

Is there a way to Punch Shekhar Gupta's nose. I believe for some money he can let you do that.

Anonymous said...

So now dear freinds....cheers to the guys for the job well done. All praises to the NSG's, the Marcos, and the IAF who dropped them from top and bought these guys all the way from delhi. Now that the battle is over, and all the praise given to the forces just like any of the previous operations, beware freinds to be blamed. The politicians are going to ask some stupid questions such as why did the NSG take 60 hours for 4 guys? r they better trained than the seasoned commandos?, who was actually heading the operations seemed to be qite chaotic with the DGP, A Lt Gen, A Maj Gen, a DG, A Rear Admiral a Vice Admiral all giving statements quite different from each other. The same people who praised u today will start bashing u and slandering u from tommorow. They are not going to blame the police or the coast guard for this chaos, they will blame the Navy for letting them in form another county, They will blame a Military intelligence failure, They will blame the Air Force for not having night operation capabilities to launch the SHBO operations they will blame the Army of not providing adequate help with flush out operations.....so on and so forth. For the sake of vote bank politics lot of statements and counter statements with the help of so called security analysts (Journos) like Mr. Shekar Gupta will make some sweeping statements. Guys I'm not a pessimist but all your issues will be put on the back burner and new committees will be formed may be another parliamentary committee and another GOM or COS will submit its report to the waste paper basket and nothing will happen just like all the previous recommendations related to the armed forces. Anyway please do offer a small prayer to all the men who lost their lifes in the line of their duty which ever service he was from...especially the guys from the NSG since they were only defending the people of this country from external agression.

Anonymous said...

How Karkare, Kamte and Salaskar were killed
Mumbai: A constable, who was in the hijacked Mumbai police vehicle, survived the Wednesday night mayhem to recount the horror of how Anti-Terrorism Squad chief Hemant Karkare and two other top officers of Mumbai police were gunned down inside the Toyota Qualis by a terrorist duo fleeing from Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus.

Injured Constable Arun Jadhav was in the vehicle whose tyre burst when the desperadoes had commandeered it in their attempt to flee from police chase.

Karkare, encounter specialist Vijay Salaskar and Additional Commissioner of Police Ashok Kamte, who were all travelling in the same vehicle, were shot dead along with three constables by the terrorists.

The top officers were on way to Cama Hospital, just a 10-minute drive from CST station, to check on another injured officer Sadanand Date.

"When we were informed that Sadanand Date has been injured at the firing in Cama Hospital Karkare, Kamte, Salaskar and four constables left from CST to the spot.

"Five minutes later, two persons carrying AK-47 rifles emerged from behind a tree and started firing at our vehicle," said Jadhav, who was hit by two bullets in his right arm and is recuperating in the Bombay Hospital.

Sitting on his bed on the 14th floor of the hospital, Jadhav, who has been in the police service for the past 12 years, said the exact number of shots fired at the police car was not known, but the three top officers and as many constables were killed on the spot. Jadhav was the only person in the vehicle who survived.

"I have been working with Salaskar my entire police career but I could not do anything to save his life," he said with tears rolling down his eyes.

While Salaskar was at the wheel, Kamte was in the front seat and Karkare in the second row with the four constables, including Jadhav, at the back seat.

"The two terrorists then came up to our vehicle and pulled out Karkare, Kamte and Salaskar's bodies out and threw them on the road. Thinking that we (constables) were also dead, the terrorists then got into the car and started driving towards Metro junction," Jadhav said.

They fired three rounds at journalists and police vans standing at Metro junction and then sped away towards Vidhan Bhawan in south Mumbai, where again they fired some rounds.

"The terrorists then started driving from Vidhan Bhawan when the car's tyre burst. They then got off the car and ran towards another vehicle," he said.


Jadhav then got in touch with the police control and informed them about the death of Karkare, Kamte, Salaskar and the three constables.

"Additional Commissioner of Police (ATS) Parambir Singh and other police officers then rushed to the spot and took the bodies to St George hospital," Jadhav said.

Anonymous said...

@Anony 11.59pm
A very sad end to a fine officer. Could you please provide the link of your story or the source of your comment? Thanks.

Anonymous said...

@Anony 4:56 am

here is the link http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/Witness-account-of-Karkare-Kamte-and-Salaskars-death/392181/

Anonymous said...

One thousand year ago anyone in Kabul who ran out of cash or pretty women had to just muster 400 horsemen and march down the plains of Punjab looting and plundering and raping at will since those days there was no one to defend India and the Indian people. The invader then carried on to Delhi and had a good time plundering and raping and butchering the citizens at will at his own time. After finishing his job he would return victoriousy with Delhi reduced to dust with trains of young women and handsome slaves and all the booty. This continued for last one thousand years with frequency of about ten to twenty years. So sure was the certainity of this loot plunder and humiliation of India that people of punjab developed a trait of eating drinking and enjoying what ever they had since it in anycase is going to be taken away " KHADA PEETA LAI DA BAKI NADU SHAHE DA" meaning yours is only what you eat drink and put on ; the rest belongs to Nadir Shah. These threats have stopped only after providential appearance of the Indian Army which has ensure that out Western border is secure from the barbarians. Nothing has changed otherwise ; the barbarian with their old designs are still waiting at Kabul and Peshawar ; the only thing they rue is this stubborn Indian Army which is holding this line in the West of the nation. Today going by the discourse in the media and the opinions being expressed by some friends on the net it seems a deliberate effort is on to demoralise the Indian Army so that the society can get back to enjoying the forced genetic mixing of the Indian blood from the West.They are trying to do what Taliban and the ISI in last so many decades have failed to do. The mindless triade against forces by people like that imbecile Shekhar Gupta appears to be a natural genetic urge of a civilisaion used to periodic plunder and rape and forced genetic enrichment. The only force which is prevention this are the defence forces and hence the campaign against them. Pardon me I may be being disrespectful to a civilization which has a natural urge to assimilate other cultures but I could thind of no other reason for the deliberate humiliation of the soldiers by the society that he is protecting with his life. Please put me wise if there is some other reason. Warm regards to All

Anonymous said...

while the battle was raging, the mumbai police was planning and executing a perception management operations. when they knew fully well that the officers infact were victims of terrorist act and not died fighting, all throughout they KEPT ON MISLEADING THAT THE OFFICERS DIED FIGHTING GALLANTLY. THEIR OMMISSIONS IN TERM OF LACK OF QUICK REACTION ABILITY SHOULD IDEALLY BE UNDER SCRUTINY. BUT SEE WAHT HAPPENS, THERE IS A COMPETITION TO GIVE COMPENSATION, GLORIFY THEM, EVEN STUPID MMS MENTIONED IN HIS SPEECH, (OBVIOUSLY IT WAS WRITTEN BY CUNNING BABUS). AND WHAT HAPPENS TO THE ARMY MEN WHO DIE IN KASHMIR DAILY? AGAINST ARMY'S ADVICE THE GOVT HAD CEASEFIRE IN THE NORTHEAST, NOW ARMY IS AGAIN PAYING THE PRICE. THE ARMY HAS STARTED TO FEEL AS IF WE ARE SOMETHING LIKE A SLAVE ARMY, SECOND GRADE SOLDIERS. ADD TO IT, THERE WAS AN ATTEMPT TO MAKE THE NSG APPEAR TO BE A POLICE ORGANISATION. THE POLICE COMPONENT OF NSG ONLY ROAMS AROUND WITH MADAM AND MMS, SON-IN LAW, DAUGHTER AND BABA. TELL ALL THESE PANDU OFFICERS INCLUDING MAXWELL PARERA(TIMES NOW) TO CONDUCT ONE SINGLE OPERATION, IF THEY HAD ANYTHING IN THEM. AS A UNIFORMED FORCE THEY SHOULD HAVE SOME SELF RESPECT ATLEST. F-U-CK U A-RS HOLES!

CREDIT OF THIS SAD SITUATION GOES TO OUR ILLUSTRIOUS GENERALSWHO SOLD OUT FOR SOME POST RETIREMENT JOBS. ALL THE ILLUSTRIUS 'CAREERIST' OFFICERS, WHO WILL DO ANY THING FOR 'SELF BEFORE SERVICE' MATTERS.

INFACT ALMOST ALL THE OFFICERS OF THE RK OF BRIG AND ABOVE CAN BE CLASSIFIED IN ABOVE CATEGORY, PROBABLY CAREERISM, AND SUPEROBEDIENCE IS THE QR

IndianACE said...

I too saw the TV interview with the police constable (Jadhav?) regarding the sequence of actions leading to death of the three police officers.

It is clear that there was no bravery involved- at least there was no conspicious action beyond the call of duty. Wait and watch these guys getting the Ashok Chakras (posthumous)and political parties rushing to their family members to joining politics.

On the other hand, Unnikrishna and Hav Gajendra were actively involved against an entrenched enemy. Their families will be running from pillar to post for their dues.

Nothing against the departed police officers but more likely than not, they were just caught in the firing as were tens of other Mumbaikars.

so let the spin doctors not weave tales of magical bravery on their part. It will be akin to the Ketchup colonel episode, which we so readily abhor.

MV said...

THIS WAS ONE MORE OPPORTUNITY WHERE HELPLESSNESS OF THE ARMY BRASS WAS AT THE FOREFRONT.ALL OUR TOP BRASS WERE NO WHERE SEEN SOON AFTER THE NSG TOOK OVER.ALSO AN EXAMPLE TO THINK THAT WHY SHOULD THE NSG BE HEADED BY AN IPS,WHEN THE MAJORITY ELEMENT INSIDE IS FROM THE ARMY.WHY SHOULD IT NOT BE HEADED BY A LT GEN.AND IG OPS ( A MAJ GEN) WHO WAS SUPPOSED TO BE AT THE FOREFRONT WAS ALMOST INVISIBLE.

NEEDLESS TO SAY THAT THE BABUS AND THE POLITICOS HAVE GOT A CHANCE TO DELAY THE 6CPC ANOMALIES CLARIFICATION BY AN INFINITE TIME.ARMY /DEFENCE WILL NOT QUESTION IT AS IT WILL AMOUNT TO BE A PERS INTEREST ABOVE THE NATIONAL ONE AT THIS PARTICULAR JUNCTURE.
PITY THOU HELPLESS ARMY...
SO MUCH SO THAT SEEING AN IPS AT THE FOREFRONT IN THE OPERATION PEOPLE BELIEVED IT WAS AN ELITE POLICE FORCE ELEMENTS DOING THE JOB.AND THE DG NSG WHEN ANOUNCING THE MARTYRS SAID'ONE OF THE MAJORS HAVE DIED...'PROBABLY NOT EVEN AWARE OF THE NAME OF THE VALIANT OFFICER...
SAD BUT IT WILL GO ON TILL OUR TOP BRASSES DONT PUT THERE FOOT FIRMLY DOWN AND DEMAND RATHER THAN REQUEST THE BABUS AND THE POLITICOS FOR THE RIGHTS OF THE FAUJIS...

VANDE MATRAM

Anonymous said...

It happens again, the Police/Army pays with lives for the incompetancy of the Babus.May the souls of all the Police/Army personnel who laid down their lives rest in peace.

As usual the country had to depend on the Army personnel when eveything else failed.They stood by the country,with a total disrehard for their lives.But has the Govt stood by them? NO

They are asking only for the retention of the status parity wich existed in the V PC wrt the IAS.Please give them their due and more.

The CPO's would be well advised to desist from comparing themselves with the Armed Forces and demand parity with the IAS if they wish to further their case.

Anonymous said...

It is well agreed as stated and intended by Navdeep that the colour of the uniform msut not be seen seen in assessing and judging about the Sacrifices made by the our gallent men in uniform. True, but the nature, functions their circumstances of their scrifice must be seen objectively.

Hemant Karkare, encounter specialist Vijay Salaskar and Additional Commissioner of Police Ashok Kamte were killed at point blank range by Mohammad Ajmal Mohammad Amin Kasab, the only terrorist to have been arrested in connection with the three-day terror attack.

They all were going to Cama hospital to enqiure about their firend who had been wounded by the terrorist and was taken there rather than looking for or chasing or fighting the terrorists.
It is now abundantly clear that Bombay Police and Maharastra Govt was told about the reccee of the city and hotels being carried out by the foreign students. It has also become clear that smuggling of the RDX was carried out into Bambay much before and the Fishermen Union had informed Maharastra Goverment about it.
But look what the Bobay ATS was very busy in. Under MR Patil and Mr Patil, they were busy in briefing day and night about Purohit and Sadhvi. Their areas of activities were Malegaon, MP, Indore, UP and Faridabad and they were collecting / fabricating thing to vallify the Sadhavi and the Army. These guys did not even spare Lt gen Sinha.

While this was happening, Bombay was under the planning and preparation process for an attack by Terrorists.

Media today is projecting them as the Martyers and IPS is leaving no stone unturned from retired ones to Serving officers in projecting Police image. One of the ill mannered retired DG even pronounced that the Sacrifices of Maj Sandeep and Hav Gajendra Singh was police achievements as they died doing Police Work.

The wife of Karkare refused to take sympathies from Modi. She has the right to do it but then on such occassions and tragedies, diffrentaiting between Political shades to accept things from Patil and Not from Modi is not a correct gesture. Modi was not responsible for the death of Mr Karkare. Before his death, what ever was happening was plain Politics and it is further confirmed by such gestures. Media and IPS is hailing those gestures. Oh God?? Such open Political affiliation???

Some people in Media such as Rajdeep Serdesia, Barkaha Dutt and Gowswami are unnecessarily telling stories which are not there. They ask people and pontificate not to play politics while playing politics themselves.

Well, what is my concern?

My only concern is that Purohit affair should not be pushed back but investgated thoroughly. He should either be hanged or someone else be hanged for vallifying the Army?? Army should be persistant on this aspect.

The Armed Forces presently are subject to circumstances wherein every one including state Politicians , Center Ministers, IAS and IPS, CPOs and section of Media has been turned against and let loose on them.

Look at news leaks in the aftermath of the Bombay by The Relatives and Associates Welfare (R&AW) and Congress Cousin, Haldar's IB is blaming Navy that it did not act.

Typical aftermath of all never ending Intelligence Crisis in India. How can intelligence be gathered where the Top ATS is envolved in fabricating stories for Political gains of the Masters?

I must say, The Armed Forces are under concentrated and vigorious atttacks form many quarters and they must tread carefully, firmly and truthfully. Truth finally truimphs. Satyameva Jayate.

The graet Indian Armed Forces have great responsibilities towards the nation and its people. Finally we shall overcome.

Jai Hind.

Anonymous said...

It was very courageous of Mr H Karkare to go in,in all probablity he did not know what he was getting into.Whether he knew or not,it does not matter,it was indeed a very courageous act at his age.

The same cant be said of Maj S Unnikrishnan.He knew exactly what he was getting into and he still did.

Anonymous said...

fauzi bhai logon this country is concerned about only the soldiers who die in action so YOU ALL IDIOT FAUZIS WHO THINK THAT the more you sweat in peace less you bleed in war STOP ALL THE BLOODY MONKEY JUMPING YOU DO just go and die atleast your family will get PB$

jo said...

There are deeper questions involved here than a plain 'My Dad is stronger than yours'. The entire concept of India has come into question.

The first people to blame are the general citizenry who give a fractured mandate time after time and make sure the government in the centre is almost always weak.

The second are the people again who have no dignity for either themselves or their countrimen. As long as one's verandah is clear of muck and bandits - one is not bothered what is happening down the street.

The third are again the people who have no sense of justice, compassion, fairness and pursuit of excellence. One must have a job, one must have a house, one must have a wife and children (preferably sons) and let the others go to hell.

The people of India are insensitive to the core to other people of India and I dare say this is going to happen again.

Let it happen a few more times and you will have calls for secession of of many states from union of India. The Indian story is going to be over unless we wake up. The first things that need getting done are:-
Political Reforms - to ensure there is a revote until a single party is in simple majority.

Internal democratic elections within all political parties that can stand for national elections. Let politicins be elected democratically in their parties

Judicial Reforms - Timebound disposal of cases

Civil Reforms - Uniform civil code with primacy of the constitution over any other religious cult creed or beliefs

Police Reforms - To grant autonomy to police. The political establishment should have power only to remove the chief of the Force and not any constable, inspector ets.

Intelligence Reform - Pour in money and expertise and hold int agencies responsible for failures. Have huge establishments for int apparatus in jehadi countries. Buy out their politicians, police and government officials

Terrorism policy - Have a new terrorism policy with focus on elimination of people known to be involved in terrorism anywhere in the world and with any means. MAke a target list and put it in the web to strike terror into the hearts of people who finance or abet terror in any way. suggestions for inclusion in the list - all the top brass of all holy armies in the Pakistan, all indian mafioso living abroad, selected Saudi missionaries, selected ISI operatives who give training to terror outfits

Religious Reform - The nation should abjure religion for 5 years - no teligious functions, structures, leaders and activity should be permitted until we have at least two years of religious violence free years. Anyone professing religious beliefs for votes should be debarred for two elections. No mention of religion or religious groups should be allowed for 5 years

Conscription - Have at least 1 year conscription of all ablebodied adults to teach them military values

Standards organisation - Each public amenity standard must be laid. Charge appropriate money but do not let dignity of humans to be lowered by allowing them to stay in jhuggis and travel in overcrowded buses and trains

If you do not do all this the drain on the idea of india will continue and soon india will be bereft of all blood and soul - Somalindia - anyone for that?

Anonymous said...

Islam is not a religion - it is a cult that is eating up the world by wreaking havoc over its own people as well as other faiths.

Muslims hate christians, jews, hindus and they hate themselves more than that because they can not match them or turn them into muslims.

This is a war of the civilisations and it will have a very very bloody end.

My advice to all indians - Actively help in telling all fellow Indians the dangers of Islam and help them leave islam at the earliest as if they do not side with their religion they will be branded unislamis and if they fight on the side of islam they will be annihilated in the next big war

Islam is against modernity and against modern values - it has to be stamped out from the earth just as fascism was. So all muslims leave islam and take up any other religion of your choice.

KK said...

the only one to be blamed is the Army itself.In today's India where is the need to get senty about one's job.If no org in this country worth it's name is working and still getting handsomely rewarded why should army continue to be so concerned about professionalism and perform every time .WHY THE HELL SHOULD ARMY FATHER EVERY ONE'S ILLEGITIMATE CHILDREN.Its high time it STRICTLY minds it's OWN BUSINESS and that also only up to the extent it is getting paid for and keeping IAS,IPS and Politicians as it's ROLE MODELS. What say all.

Anonymous said...

ANONYMOUS@11.34,,,,
MY PARA MILITARY FREIND,,,,,,,,DID U SEE WHAT THE NEWSPAPERS ARE TELLING??????KARKARE NEVER WENT IN......HE WAS AMBUSHED AND MOST OF INDIA HAS SEEN THRU THE PROPAGANDA OF POLICE TO PAINT HIM A HERO AND COVER UP THEIR FOLLIES.......

KARKARE WAS A COURAGEOUS MAN...........BUT HE IS THE ONLY ONE IN AN OTHERWISE CORRUPT AND INCOMPETENT POLICE FORCE!!!!!

AND SCUMS LIKE U ARE JUST FISHING IN TROUBLED WATERS!!!!DO NOT WORRY,,,,,RETALIATION WILL COME UR WAY .........

naren said...

WHAT DID THEY DO……

The Police………despite the out dated weapons/equipment that they had they valiantly took on the bastards …made the supreme sacrifice….managed to catch one alive…… ….we lost some of the finest police guys…..the nation is proud of you and salutes you!

The Army…….the brave Commandos did a highly professional task which no one else could do……a Major and a Havildar make the supreme sacrifice………..the nation is proud of you and salutes you!

The Navy…..the marine commandos executed an equally difficult task…….the nation is proud of you and salutes you!!

The Air force…….carried out out a dangerous and difficult task of air dropping the brave commandos at a precise location…… the nation is proud of you and salutes you!!

The firemen…..with grave disregard to their personal safety they rescue hostages…and put out the fire…….. the nation is proud of you and salutes you!!

The Politicians ….seized the opportunity to play vote bank politics…..some of them landed up in Bombay with their Z+ NSG contingent!! Fellows like Thakeray and his goons were nowhere to be seen……..by the way, Mr Raj thakeray, the late Major was from The Bihar Regiment!!!...........The nation hates you all…….you are filthy….

The Babus…….were scratching their balls over cups of chai/samosas in the comforts of their plush ……air conditioned offices in south/north block…..using their evil brains to manipulate with the files concerning the Armed Forces……their brains were preoccupied with pb3…pb3+…pb4….rank pay ………. the nation unequivocally hates you !!!

Dost Of Fauj said...

Will any one of the chief's speak up and put the facts in front of people of this country.Or are they worried about their post retirement placement.

Anonymous said...

It is truly sad that some army officers are belittling the contribution of the police officers/staff in the mumbai episode. Let us see their argument that Karkare etc. were basically shot while they sat in their vehicle, whereas the Major went down fighting bravely.

This argument is stupid.

If not, let us apply this argument for the soldiers in Kargil war who were told to recapture posts where the enemy was at an advantageous location, and our soldiers had to fight at a great disadvantage. Many of them were shot dead with great ease by the enemy.

Let us apply this logic to many of our brave soldiers who stormed the Golden Temple and were mowed down mercilessly by the militants.

Some army officers have never seen (nor imagined) a civilian hostage situation (not their fault. they are trained for a different purpose, and that is why we have a separately trained organization - NSG - for this purpose). If we had used the Infantry in Mumbai, they might have pulled the whole hotel down to kill a few terrorists and might have accomplished what the terrorists wanted more efficiently - that is what they often do in Kashmir. The only difference is that in Kashmir, either there are no hostages (when a terrorist is holed inside a house), or the non-terrorist inhabitants are kashmiri 'supporters' and thus are expendable.

So the courage shown by Karkare and Unnikrishnan is essentially the same. Both knew that what they were doing was very dangerous, they might not return alive. At least the Major knew approximately where the enemy was, Karkare was just aware of a broad locality. At least the Major had proper body protection and weapons, at least the Major was holding the weapon as he went inside, Karkare had no chance to do so (not that it would have mattered, the fire came from an unexpected location.) Karkare could have done what most armymen do. Arrange equipment, call huge reinforcements, get more intelligence, then go in a most deliberate fashion after the terrorists - meanwhile in all this delay the terrorists could have slaughtered a few dozen more.

And remember, the same police staff could trap two terrorists, kill one and capture the other one alive. This living terrorist is worth more than 10 dead. If you understand anything about strategy and geopolitics you would know this live terrorist is a force-multiplier. Dead fiyadeens do not talk - and they all carried fake identity cards to create plausible deniability. And hundreds of NSG commandoes with backup support of Army/Marcos/Police could not capture even one terrorist alive even after confining them into limited spaces. It appears that all the hostages the terrorists had with them were also killed - so the NSG couldn't even save the hostages. I am not belittling the NSG, but am saying that given the constraints, the police officers/staff did as well as, if not better than, the fully equipped and specially trained NSG personnel.

I just hope, god forbid, if anyone of you goes in a danger zone where you are at a severe disadvantage and are hurt, you not ridiculed as being 'not-brave'.

Anonymous said...

Let us not talk rubbish and speak of "Some army officers". Not everyone who posts here is an army officer, and the civilian public is entitled to its opinion. I attended a get together of a particular regiment today.

The colonel of the regiment, in his opening address called for a 2 minute silence, "In honour of all those who died in Mumbai, and especially of 14 uniformed personnel who lost their lives- comrades in arms, brave men, all".

I tell you it brought tears to my eyes.

So to all you twits who speak of "You army officers", I would say, shut up.

Dost Of Fauj said...

dear Anno(ying)ne mous(e),
kurkure and party were not even remotely involved with the fight.They were on there way to meet their colleague.IF IN UR ESTEEMED OPINION THIS IS AS DANGEROUS AS GOING IN ARMED BATTLE WITH FIDAYEENTHEN ALL I CAN SAY IS THAT "PAAJI U R GREAT". Do not try to draw parallels with Kargil.you can't even imagine those conditions and moreover they were going in for a fight knowing fully well that they will not survive.They were not going for SOCIALISING.Can any of you do it? Was kurkure & party doing that?????Pl wake up and don't be stupid, to say the least.

The NSG commandos were fighting against well entrenched Fidayin terrorists.They could have even BLOWN the hotel.Do you have the faintest idea what it means?YOU PROBABLY DON'T AND THATS'S WHY U R WRITING THIS CRAP.The Commandos knew this fully well but they will never be afraid of this.Thulle to tab bhi bhaag jate hain jab stone pelting ho rahi hoti hai aur nihatte logon ko martee hain ,chahe woh ladies aur bachche hi kyon na ho.Or else they will ENCOUNTER people for vested interest/money.Am I wrong DEAR.All of their Encounter Specialists have been thoroughly exposed to all.Kurkure aur party to Fauj ke ek Sipahi se bhi compare nahin ho sakte.Apne favourite thullon se pooch ki itna RDX aur aslah Hotels mein aaya kaise?Bhai kabhi to hafta lene ke alawa aur koi kaam karna chahiye inhe ki nahin?

Your example of Golden temple is also stupid.Those terrorists were in their home and well entrenched in a building which had only one narrow entrance.Each one of the soldiers going in knew that he WILL be killed but still went in and died fighting.They were fighting own people in the holiest sikh temple and hence had to exercise utmost restraint.Why did KHAKHIS not do it?Wasn't it their job?
Your comment on use of Infantry are far from the truth and totally idiotic.You probably need to understand that the NSG commandos are also mostly Infantarians. Please do not open your gab w/o info.
In your exuberance to defend khakis you are furnishing funny arguments which are not only hollow but also stupid.Please be little more informed, pragmatic, honest and balanced.

Anonymous said...

As a tribute to the fallen hero and as one of them I want to just ask why is our national flag at half mast only at the taj why not all over the country cant we have national mourning for so many dead or its only the one of the 525 idiots if dead deserve it are we less indian than them or govt of the people for the people and by the people has forgotten the very people who are the base and the cause of it being there a food for thought for all us Indians

Anonymous said...

ANONYMOUS@4.52P.M.......

DO U KNOW HOW THE TERRORIST WHO WAS CAUGHT ALIVE WAS CAUGHT???????HIS CAR CRASHED AND THE POLICE GUYS CAUGHT HIM.........TRY DOING THAT INSIDE A HOTEL OF WHICH U KNOW NOTHING ABOUT!!!!!!!!!!

KURKURE WAS DOING NOTHING AT ALL .ACCORDING TO U,KURKARE GOT NO CHANCE TO RETALIATE.....THAT'S EXCATLY THE POINT WE ARE MAKING.......HE DID NOT EVEN LIFT HIS WEAPON AND HAS HAD HEROISM THRUST ON HIM............................CHECK THE WEBSITES ON LINE AND U WILL SEE WHAT INDIAN PUBLIC THINKS ABOUT KARKARE'S DEATH.....................AS FOR TRAINING,,,,,,,,WELL,,,,,,,IN ANY ARM OF THE MILITARY WE FOLLOW A SIMPLE FUNDA.......UNLESS U R NOT TRAINED FOR SOMETHING,,,,,,DO NOT JUMP INTO THE BATTLE AND WASTE TIME OF OTHERS.......HE COULD HAVE CALLED THE MARCOS MUCH BEFORE THE HOSTAGES WERE TAKEN......................ALSO WE ARE NOT LIKE ISRAEL WHERE THE MOTTO IS "EVEN IF 100 HOSTAGES DIE,A SINGLE TERRORIST SHOULD NOT BE SPARED"......U SAY KARKARE WAS SHOT BECOZ HE DID NOT HAVE PROPER EQUIPMENT.....SO IS THE CASE WITH MARCOS/NSG WHO WERE INJURED THRU THE BULLET PROOF VEST.......DO NOT COMPARE THE POLICE AND THE ARMED FORCES..........POLICE DOES WHAT THEY DO AND THE FORCES HAVE A GREATER ROLE TO PLAY............THERE WAS A NEWS THAT NEARLY 60 PERCENT OF PUNE POLICE SUFFERS FROM "HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE AND ARE OVERWEIGHT"....POLICE IS DOING THEIR JOB,,,TAKING BRIBES,RAPING WOMEN(REMEMBER MORE OF THE MUMBAI POLICE?????)TROUBLING THE PUBLIC AND SO ON(OF COURSE EATING ANYTHING THAT MOVES TOO AND THRASHING UP INNOCENTS BY FORMING BUNCHES).......THEY ARE GOOD AGAINST KATTA YIELDING AND UNARMED MEN NOT AGAINST PROFESSIONALS DOING THEIR DUTY........UNDERSTAND THIS AND SALUTE THE FORCES......

Anonymous said...

ANONYMOUS@4.52P.M.......

DO U KNOW HOW THE TERRORIST WHO WAS CAUGHT ALIVE WAS CAUGHT???????HIS CAR CRASHED AND THE POLICE GUYS CAUGHT HIM.........TRY DOING THAT INSIDE A HOTEL OF WHICH U KNOW NOTHING ABOUT!!!!!!!!!!

KURKURE WAS DOING NOTHING AT ALL .ACCORDING TO U,KURKARE GOT NO CHANCE TO RETALIATE.....THAT'S EXCATLY THE POINT WE ARE MAKING.......HE DID NOT EVEN LIFT HIS WEAPON AND HAS HAD HEROISM THRUST ON HIM............................CHECK THE WEBSITES ON LINE AND U WILL SEE WHAT INDIAN PUBLIC THINKS ABOUT KARKARE'S DEATH.....................AS FOR TRAINING,,,,,,,,WELL,,,,,,,IN ANY ARM OF THE MILITARY WE FOLLOW A SIMPLE FUNDA.......UNLESS U R NOT TRAINED FOR SOMETHING,,,,,,DO NOT JUMP INTO THE BATTLE AND WASTE TIME OF OTHERS.......HE COULD HAVE CALLED THE MARCOS MUCH BEFORE THE HOSTAGES WERE TAKEN......................ALSO WE ARE NOT LIKE ISRAEL WHERE THE MOTTO IS "EVEN IF 100 HOSTAGES DIE,A SINGLE TERRORIST SHOULD NOT BE SPARED"......U SAY KARKARE WAS SHOT BECOZ HE DID NOT HAVE PROPER EQUIPMENT.....SO IS THE CASE WITH MARCOS/NSG WHO WERE INJURED THRU THE BULLET PROOF VEST.......DO NOT COMPARE THE POLICE AND THE ARMED FORCES..........POLICE DOES WHAT THEY DO AND THE FORCES HAVE A GREATER ROLE TO PLAY............THERE WAS A NEWS THAT NEARLY 60 PERCENT OF PUNE POLICE SUFFERS FROM "HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE AND ARE OVERWEIGHT"....POLICE IS DOING THEIR JOB,,,TAKING BRIBES,RAPING WOMEN(REMEMBER MORE OF THE MUMBAI POLICE?????)TROUBLING THE PUBLIC AND SO ON(OF COURSE EATING ANYTHING THAT MOVES TOO AND THRASHING UP INNOCENTS BY FORMING BUNCHES).......THEY ARE GOOD AGAINST KATTA YIELDING AND UNARMED MEN NOT AGAINST PROFESSIONALS DOING THEIR DUTY........UNDERSTAND THIS AND SALUTE THE FORCES......

IndianACE said...

Anonymous @

I stand by my earlier comment. It is based on a TV interview of a policeman travelling in the same vehicle and not any speculative media news.

I have not stated that the army is braver than the police or any thing of that nature. In fact, I have tremendous respect for Mumbai Police

I sincerely regret their untimely deaths. They all died to the bullets fired by enemies of India. I also congratulate the bravery of police inspector Naik and his team at Girgaum.

It was a comment to segregate the truth from the hype among the four officers involved. Too often, We've seen in the army and otherwise too that an exceptional act gets drowned in a cloud of disinformation and me-too types.

Rest in Peace Maj Unni, Hav Gajendra, all the brave policemen and the people who died.

robin said...

Avavind Karkare was giving good sound bytes to channels on Sadhvi.He acted tought with army over Purohit.He had the temerity to suggest that Purohit had smuggled 60 kg of RDX and used in samjhuta blast.Then Pakistan took the cue and Pak foreign office referred to India to share the latest intellignece on Samjhuta as earlier India had blamed ISI for that.

Aravind Karkare was ill prepared for fight wearing a civilan dress and reluctantly wearing a bullet proof jacket.
Well the other two who died with him were good but died in going with Kerkere in the car.And after killing the AK-47 of the policemen were snatched and which resulted in further deaths.
Any way news channels were paying their return thanksgiving for the unimaginable soundbyetes he gave day after day.

Anonymous said...

This is Anon at 4:52 again..

To dost of Fauj...

Your arguments are devoid of any merit...

If Karkare and others were going to a socializing event, why would they wear helmet/BPJ. Is it the dress code for Major-General rank officers in Army to wear helmet/BPJ while they go to parties. I am sorry I haven't met any Maj-Gen/Lt Gen dressed as such in the many parties I have been to. Maybe in your regiment (or your area of town) they follow this code while you pour them another peg of whiskey.

"They could have blown the hotel": True, but did they ? And if they could, and if they had the material to do so (which they did not) would it not make sense for the NSG to capture them or eliminate the terrorists ASAP even at a grave risk to themselves. Because if they blow up the hotel then everybody including the NSG and the guests in rooms will die. Do not give stupid arguments... They won't work with me as they might against starry-eyed barkha-dutt type reporters.

The Kargil and Golden Temple arguments are perfect analogy to the present case. In each case the security force had a great disadvantage, and they faced a high probability that they might die. Your statement "Each one of the soldiers going in knew that he WILL be killed but still went in and died fighting." is an illustration that you need training in elementary maths, if not elementary probability concepts. My task is difficult but let me try to explain it to you - first find out the number of soldiers who participated in the Kargil war - call this figure A, then find out how many died - call this figure B. The ex-post probability that a randomly chosen participating soldier dies equals B divided by A. Your assumption that everyone knew that they will get killed attributes to the soldiers a capability of clairvoyance. Now I agree our soldiers are brave and very capable (unlike many of their so-called-friends) but I do not think that they can see the future also. So make some good arguments, your rhetoric is painfully worthless.

I can only surmise you haven't seen infantry in action in J&K. Get over your ignorance. Many NSG commandoes are from infantry, but they are especially trained for a new and entirely different job. You tend to think of NSG skills and infantry skills as perfect substitutes. God forbid if our infantry starts behaving as the NSG is supposed to or vice-versa.

Please get some education and real-world experience before you open your mouth. Will you ?

Anonymous said...

Hey guys. I think we should not discuss the deceased police officers & men and treat them as if the circumstances of their deaths were their fault. They were 'On duty', so give them their due respect please. I'm sure they were brave men!

Anonymous said...

FOR ALL BASTARDS OUT THERE DARING TO COMPARE THE FORCES AND POLICE.............MAJ SANDEEP'S FATHER HAS POINT BLANKLY REFUSED TO MEET THE CHEIF MINISTER AND HOME MINISTER OF KERALA AND ACCEPT MONEY.....HE EVEN REFUSED TO TALK TO A.K.ANTONY WHEN ANTONY CALLED HIM UP.........SAYS DO NOT WANT TO BRING IN POLITICIANS......................Mrs Karkare took help from maharashtar govt but refused modi's help............

SEE,U ASSES,THIS IS THE DIFFERENCE IN UPBRINGING AND U CAN'T LEARN IT.........

Anonymous said...

Anon at 7:58

Stupido..

You have just spit over the families of numerous shaheed military officers/men who have accepted help from political leaders in power at the State/Center.

If you cannot be respectful to our shaheed soldiers, please do not be disrespectful. It shows something sordid about your upbringing...

Anonymous said...

ANONYMOUS@8.13,

The other guy went overboard and u were quick to criticise him calling him stupid.......why??????????even I am happy that the KERALA CM and Home Minister was told not to come home by Major's parents...........Mrs Karkare should have either accepted help from both modi and deshmukh or refrained from doing so................seriously,there is no comparision between fauj and police........ANY DO NOT BE SO HARSH AT OUR OWN CHAPS...........THIS IS AN ENTIRELY FAUJI MENTALITY........

Ajith said...

Oh my Lord,
Please forgive all those who try to differentiate and see color in the dead. The only color that is there after death is the tri color.
Death is a great leveller.
May the departed souls Rest In Peace and the Almighty give sufficient strength to their family to cope.

Anonymous said...

I agree with this earlier comment on the blog

"Will any one of the chiefs speak up and put the facts in front of people of this country.Or are they worried about their post retirement placement."

AG said...

I also agree with

"Will any one of the chiefs speak up and put the facts in front of people of this country.Or are they worried about their post retirement placement."

Anonymous said...

@ Annoy 4:52. what do you know about the infantry battalion?? You are a policeman who never command troops in battle and try and ride piggyback for glory.Infantry battalion is the mother of all CPMF who have copied it organistion but have not been able to copy the ethos which is the more difficult part.I have operated with the police and the PMF and know them well . So do not try and teach us. And we have a much broader vision than you people- I force to say that since you are bragging and must be answered. And the bravery and all action that you see anywhere has been learned from infanty battlaion which you are deriding. What are we doing in Kashmir??? There also you people shamelessly ride piggyback and now you denounce the infantry. At least be grateful pal. And we really do not have to discuss who is better. Why should we fight over this issue. Just get up,go out and ask the first man on the street. And dont go public with these view against the Army: you might ger lynched. Regards.

Dost Of Fauj said...

SORRY DEAR ANON,
YOU HAVE LOST UR F BALANCE.PL DONT WORRY,IT HAPPENS.PL GO THRU THE COMMENT PEACEFULLY AND THEN EXPRESS UR ANGER.AND IF YOU INSIST UPON TAKING THE INTERPRITATIONOTHERWISE THEN WELL WHAT CAN SOMEBODY DO TO SUCH A SICK MIND.ANYWAY MAY GOD GIVE U WISDOM TO UNDERSTAND WHAT I HAVE WRITTEN & STR TO COMMENT PATIENTLY, WITHOUT BIAS.

NONA said...

dear Anon,
If u so much detest the infantry in J&k,please use ur good office to get the army removed from there.go and buy a piece of land there and sire the offsprings of ur dear neighbours(Well on second thaughts,u may not need to go there,u will get the pleasure within a week at the most).Army will also be happy coming back from ther and u will also be happy in helping ur neighbours.

NONA said...

ANONYMOUS @11.02,
SHUPNAKHAS DON'T HAVE NOSE YAAR.DONT WASTE UR TIME ON SUCH A----L-S.

Anonymous said...

All said and done...but....

Sacrifices must be honoured but not of that officer who did a great dishonour to this country..

The other day my heart bled and there were tears of anger in my eyes when that Paki bastard Maj Gen Rashid Quareshi was quoting on TV time and again involvement of an Army officer of Intellegence Corps, Lt Col Purohit in Terrorist activities in India..

Ones head hangs in shame due to Unmindful acts of Patil, Karkare and Italian Qeen. Purohit is not even charged but the verdict on him has been passed long ago...not on him but on the Armed Forces.

Why do not they hang Purohit so that we are saved that ignonimity???? Pakistan is shouting Purohit..purohit...Indian Muslims are shouting Purohit Purohit.....This Italian Rani and her cronies without mass base will stop at nothing... Not even national interests...???????

One has to feel deeply committed to ones country to understand that anguish......

The above is not to favor or defend any Political ideology...!!!!

Anonymous said...

Some so and so made a reamrk here that had the operation been given to the infantry they would have brought Taj down....

I feel like laughing over it...was Golden tample broght down by infantry..?????? Washarare Shariff gutted down by terrorists or Infantry..... How many times have Infantry brought down hazarat Bal....Stupid....heard of Jaffna...???

All SAG soldiers are Infantrymen and SF boys on deputaions....If one does not know it..one must not open his ass like that....

Ok ..so much for Infantry...in passing refrence....

Anonymous said...

@(C)anon,
Clever disguise like the henious terrorists! A Paki wolf in CPO/lamb outfit!!

Anonymous said...

@annoy 11.01

do not jump this much. the way indian army has been treated by netas and baboos for the last 60 years do'nt get surprised if many more purohit come up.
have you forgotten when officers want to quit therewas a ban on PMR and chiefs were told to make everybody an army officer who so ever want to join
what else do you expect in such environment you get what you deserve

Mangusta said...

The Indian Infantry is the sword arm of the Nation. Its the ultimate instrument to convincingly and demonstratively destroy the enemy's will to fight. In its wider role its an offensive weapon (as different from attacking and defending) of the State. Its employment in killing holed up terrorists in downtown Mumbai is not only the easiest of its tasks but also the smallest and defensive adjunct to its main task. Any Rifle Company Commander would salivate at the opportunity to kill holed up (willingly 'fixed') terrorists in any terrorists. Even in anti terrorist operations, the difficult part is hunting them in vast expanses of rural mountains, jungles and icy heights. Once they have already killed innocents and given you a bloody invitation, then the professionalism lies in doing the job with as little damage and fuss.
I am glad no SAG officer came on TV. Even the NCOs and Jawans who were 'captured' on camera accurately gave a all-in-a-days-work impression.
The tragedy is that the Indian Infantry as seen as a manpower enhancing resource. No wonder the enemy is having a field day

Mangusta said...

Correction, 9th line:Read 'terrain' for 'terrorists'.

milind said...

may i give a bit of correction here?
the SAGs are not anti -terrorist or anti - hijack groups
theye are the COUNTER - HIJACK AND COUNTER - TERRORIST groups.
they move in only afetr the sit develops........
they are not there to prevent these unfortunate situations......
and gentlemen PLEASE maintain the decorum of this wonderful facility

Armchair Analysis said...

Dear Major Navdeep,

I have commented elsewhere that DG NSG should behave like the Commander of the SAS.
Commander of the SAS is never seen, rarely, if ever heard and SAS, like the SAG (All Army, ahem! detected that pride, Major), it does ist job and disappears as quietly as they came.

I wish DG NSG, Sangram medal or not, would not enlighten our panting media on how and what and when and where of the operations lest, the media provides unintentional feedback to the perpetrators and planners who will try and plug the holes in their evil plans.

Anonymous said...

Dera Friends,

With respect to NSG and Operations against terrorists (Hijacking, Hostage Situations, Rescue and relief) one thing needs to be clearly understood by all friends, specially those from Police, intelligence and Media.

NSG is an excuting and operative agency which is supposed to execute an operation on Intelligence and minute to minute deatails provided by intelligence to them. Without that this fine force is of only 30 percent effect. If they have to gather their intelligence and make their own assessments \, then there is no use having them. One must not forget that it is precisely due to this reason that the force is placed under MHA, so that they are used very effectively by the Intelligence agaencies.

Bombay operation was a far fighting operation without any intelligence. Those who were supoosed to brief and guide, that is ATS of four IPS officers did most stupid thing. Four top officers travelling in the same vehicle.

NSG did not have even a sketch or Map of the three buildings. Look if ATS can not gather even these resorces or if That (CAT reprimanded)DGP AN Ray can not think what the NSG will require for operations he has no bloody job to be there as DGP. He was clamouring only to be "in-charge" of the operations and ready only to blabber with his Bhojpuri accented english to media. In nine hours he couls not arrange for maps and layout of the hotel. Shame.

Special forces without minute to minute intelligence is like throwing the Pumpkin on the sword in anger rather than other way round. We all know it.

Intelligence has always failed us because intelligence in this country is organised on Chankya advise of recruitting only relatives of the high and mighty in Durbar for intelligence gathering. MK Narayanan has been busy spining "Sadhvi and Purohit" ploitical campaign rather than national security. For them national Interest menas Sonia interest.

God save this country from these Policewalas who constitute intelligence community. Thousands of Battalions, millions of Budget, wnating PB-4 even for the second grade officer but doing nothing for this country.

Till the time intelligence remains a domain of Police, all intellegence in the Country will always be a failure. Look at ISI.... It is run by the Army..

Hmmmmm.....

Anonymous said...

Sangram medal/Paschimi star etc was added to their salad bar by all IPS posted in border states, irregardless of the fact that they had nothing to do with the war effort.

JK Dutt is from the M-T cadre, and awarded himself this very medal the same way. One should not read too much into his holding the Sangram Medal.

His disservice to the armed forces by trying to remove all evidence of their involvement in the recent operation is shameful.

Anonymous said...

A open letter to Prime Minister by Rajrishi in Econamic Times reposing total faith in Armed Forces
Dear Prime Minister,


I was initially reluctant to write this letter to you. But, since The Economic Times Awards for Corporate Excellence have now been postponed, and your next trip to Mumbai is shrouded in uncertainty, thereby robbing our chance for a brief heart-to-heart, I felt that this would probably be the best way to catch your attention.

With every newspaper leader writer churning out editorials full of admonishment, you might just like to read this column, by way of a pleasant diversion. This column also proposes to provide you with some counsel–unsolicited, as always.

* The first piece of advice for you would be to revisit the sixth pay commission recommendations for the armed forces. This encompasses all associated issues, such as reduction in status as well as disparity in pay scales with civilian counterparts. True, there is some merit in the argument that, as a democracy, India needs to maintain its fine civilian-military balance. It's our strength and that should be preserved. But, that same divide is now becoming a deep rift and could pose unspeakable dangers.

At a time when the country’s security apparatus is crumbling under the weight of political and bureaucratic incompetence, the armed forces have emerged as the only reliable form of intervention, including providing expert help in pulling children out of wells and enforcing law and order in riot-torn areas. It is also true that the police force needs reforms badly, but till that happens, the military is our only source of hope, as the recent Mumbai attacks have shown.

Therefore, it’s probably time to set right some of the wrongs perpetrated by an entrenched bureaucracy interested in consolidating its hold. And, what better way to do it than providing the soldiers with some dignity and honour through better pay and improved standing. Listen to your defence minister; he seems to understand the issues.

* Talking of the police force, don't you think now is the time to implement some long-pending reforms, such as appropriate training, modernisation of infrastructure, improved weaponry, practice of proper human relations? Here’s what you could do immediately: reduce the security detail for all ministers, including some of the criminals that the cops would like to see behind bars but have to salute because they’ve become politicians. What an irony! Any police force is raised to protect civilians from these criminals, but by a strange quirk known as Indian politics, the police end up saving the criminals from god-knows-who!

* There’s another security-related issue you must nip in the bud: Maharashtra chief minister Vilasrao Deshmukh is using this crisis as an opportunity to create another yet organisation in the state, this time a state version of the NSG. There are already multiple agencies in the state with the mandate of doing pretty much the same job. Before he can fly with his proposal—which is replete with doubtful motives—try to create zonal NSG units which will allow them to reach hot-spots faster, rather than flying half-way across the country. Their headquarters can remain in Manesar, Haryana.

* As a gentleman, it is fitting that you did not make political capital out of ATS chief Hemant Karkare’s death. But, your opponents are made of very different material. The same party leaders, who, till a few days ago, were tearing Karkare’s credentials to shreds in the Sadhvi Pragya case, lost no time in turning him into their poster boy. They are appropriating his sacrifice for their party gains. It’s the most repulsive form of politics and you may need to find a dignified response to this one. But do it fast.

* Your cabinet colleague Shivraj Patil finally had the good sense to resign. But, it might be too late, since you go to the polls in a few months and his resignation can be construed as a tacit admission of failure. There’s also a lesson in all this. If—and this is a big “if”—your party does get voted back to power six months later, even if it’s with the help of the Left Front, you should have some say in forming the new cabinet. I’ll leave it at this for now, since there are too many imponderables to consider.

* Finally, you should get yourself a new speech writer. Till then, like a good editor, wield the red pen mercilessly whenever you see the words “dastardly” and “heinous”. These words have lost all meaning from over-use and misuse. People tend to switch to other channels whenever you utter these words on national television.

Such words now routinely fail to penetrate the desensitised exterior; they bounce right off the skin without touching the right spots.

The time to listen to the people is now. Hoping that you will not bristle at these suggestions, I remain,
The Mocha Master

p.s.: As the country’s CEO, you probably do not see all your emails, much less write them yourself. If you feel agitated, amused or aghast at the audacity of this column, please do reach for the keyboard and write to rajrishi.singhal@timesgroup.com

Anonymous said...

Dear Mr Pankaj Vohra,
Appropos 'Our Real Heroes'

May I request you to try to use military ranks of the slain soldiers whenever you write pieces on them. The Officer and the NCO had extensive experience of fighting the LeT in J&K along
their battalions.Their deaths, in battle, is to be envied by every
soldier.You may be pleasantly surprised that Military rank
is still respected by the nation, especially in rural India.
In deference to your overt appreciation of the present dispensation, I
submit the following information for your scrutiny - I am hopeful you will use your resources to prove me wrong.
For your kind information, this Indian National Congress led
government not only reduced the status of Major Unnikrishnan and other Majors and equivalents in the Armed Forces but are, as we speak, trying their level best to neutralize the Military Service Pay that the SCPC sought to give the forces. I use the word neutralize since the MSP stays but all commissioned officers from Captain to Brigadier were brought a notch lower than their civilian and police counterparts.
So, when you use your pen to sing paens to real heroes I am shocked
and ashamed at the criminal tendencies your action evinces in me.
No offence - could not but resist to shoot off this mail. I hope I
don't regret it later.

Between us. (I love your takia kalam)

Regards

Anonymous said...

here's the link to the article
http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=d6b15a10-1f17-4394-8b67-5811a1b64870

Anonymous said...

Is baar nahin
Is baar jab woh choti si bachchi mere paas apni kharonch le kar aayegi
Main usey phoo phoo kar nahin behlaoonga
Panapney doonga uski tees ko
Is baar nahin
Is baar jab main chehron par dard likha dekhoonga
Nahin gaoonga geet peeda bhula dene wale
Dard ko risney doonga,utarney doonga andar gehrey
Is baar nahin
Is baar main na marham lagaoonga
Na hi uthaoonga rui ke phahey
Aur na hi kahoonga ki tum aankein band karlo,gardan udhar kar lo main dawa lagata hoon
Dekhney doonga sabko hum sabko khuley nangey ghaav
Is baar nahin
Is baar jab uljhaney dekhoonga,chatpatahat dekhoonga
Nahin daudoonga uljhee door lapetney
Uljhaney doonga jab tak ulajh sake
Is baar nahin
Is baar karm ka hawala de kar nahin uthaoonga auzaar
Nahin karoonga phir se ek nayee shuruaat
Nahin banoonga misaal ek karmyogi ki
Nahin aaney doonga zindagi ko aasani se patri par
Utarney doonga usey keechad main,tedhey medhey raston pe
Nahin sookhney doonga deewaron par laga khoon
Halka nahin padney doonga uska rang
Is baar nahin banney doonga usey itna laachaar-
ki paan ki peek aur khoon ka fark hi khatm ho jaye
Is baar nahin
Is baar ghawon ko dekhna hai
Gaur se
Thoda lambe wakt tak
Kuch faisley
Aur uskey baad hausley
Kahin toh shuruat karni hi hogi
Is baar yahi tay kiya
hai

Prasoon Joshi
Creative Director
McCann-Erickson

Mangusta said...

Touching.
Couldn't have come at a more appropriate time. Now that the rich and famous have gatecrashed in the roll of victims!

Anonymous said...

"Karkare, Gajendra Singh, Sandeep Unnikrishnan, ML Sharma (of the ‘Jamia encounter’) and others symbolise the best of our nation. They also symbolise the determination of our security forces to keep our country safe. People like these — and those who laid down their lives fighting in conflicts like the Kargil war — are the real heroes of our country. They are the ones who should be made icons — not the fake celebrities who often take up space on Page 3 and on several segments of our television networks."



i am quite astonished to hear that those who "laid their lives are the true Matyrs"


my dear sir- what about those who survived? let me make one thing clear! staying there is a survival by itself!!!!

i would request the MOD to kindly pay all ppl, incl the IAS, the sum offered by reality shows to take some "esteemed" people- from all walks of life, sponsored by whoever- no need to waste the tax payers money, & conduct a 3 month reality show on posts on the Glacier, sher hills, etc.

think it would be worth it!

Anonymous said...

forgot to add that living there is a survival by itself- what to talk of facing bullets raining down & trying to kill the enemy. BTW- grenades & rocks are also hurled down.

RAM GOPAL VERMA_ DO U HEAR ME?

Anonymous said...

I hope the anlysis and the theory is not correct. After the terrifying incident at Mumbai and subsequent loss of lives of dedicated soldiers the so called honoured men (politicians, beauracrats, our seniors) responsible for making rules and policies understands the need of the hour.

---


An article by Brig Harwant Singh (Retd) is produced below for the consumption of all. Just go through the same and be free to make own judgements.

SCPC: Is it a conspiracy?
Ever since the recommendations of the 6 Pay Commission were made public and the subsequent farce enacted by the Committee of Secretaries (COS), ostensibly to correct the utmost glaring anomalies affecting the Defence Services, many writers have opined that yet another degradation of the military: "Is a deliberate act" by the bureaucracy.

Just before WW II, when Hitler had made up his mind to attack Russia, the German intelligence launched a massive operation to convince Stalin, the Russian dictator, about the unreliability of the Russian military and an imminent military coup against him. So successful was the German ploy that Stalin launched massive purges against his military. About 40,000 (forty thousand ) officers were executed in the process. When the Germans eventually attacked Russia, the Russian military was virtually leaderless, resulting in stunning German victories which brought them at the very gates of Moscow.

Similar game is being played against our military by our (potential) enemies for quite some time. When Nehru died in 1964, wiser from the massive problems of crowd control which were faced during Mahatma Gandhi's funeral, last rites arrangements were handed over to the Army at the very last minute. The then Army Chief, Gen JN Chaudhary, moved a brigade to Delhi for that purpose. Pakistan intelligence reportedly alerted our govt. Though it was too late and perhaps too risky to countermand the Chief's order at that stage, the clever 'Bureaucrats' came with a plan to, reportedly, appoint the three military chiefs as "Chief Mourners" to be present at the late Prime Minister's body, pending his funeral, (so that they could not launch any coup). No wonder later the govt passed orders that no formation could be moved to Delhi without its permission. That's why when other Prime Ministers died the Chiefs were no longer put as "Chief Mourners", (for there was no need to thus 'confine' them). Later the 'Vested Interest' convinced an insecure and suspicious Mrs India Gandhi, the then Prime Minister, to raise a parallel army with artillery and other supporting weapons, in the form of BSF. This increased vast 'Establishment' for the IAS and opened flood gates of opportunities and promotions for the IPS officers. Can the BSF handle Artillery Guns in Siachen or Nathu La?

During the Indo-Pak stand- off in 1986-87, in the form of Exercise "Brass Tacks" (and later 'Operation Trident' ), as confirmed by Pakistani Gen Arif in a book, the Pak ISI, spread canard of military take over in India. Unfortunately Mr Rajiv Gandhi, the then Prime Minister appeared to have swallowed the bait hook line and sinker and Pakistan killed two birds with one stone. Not only any possibility, how so remote it might have been, of any Indian attack, was removed, but a strong suspicion was sown in the young mind of the Prime Minister against the then army chief, General Sundreji. When the mutual relations between the two deteriorated as a sequel to the on going Bofors controversy, Gen Sunderji, after his retirement in an interview to "India Today" in July Bofors Gun 1989 remarked , "What could they have done to me? Get me killed through RAW." The very fact that a thought of RAW killing him crossed his mind speaks volumes in itself. No wonder, the Indian Defence Services suffered massive degradation at the behest of the 4th and 5th Pay Commissions..

Now, through the mechanism of the 6th Pay Commission, the process of that massive degradation and humiliation of our Defence Services has almost been completed. It appears to be aimed at total breakdown of their self- confidence and working relationship with the Para Military Forces (PMF). In the light of 'Red Corridor' spanning about one third of India covering almost 160 districts from Pashupati in Nepal to Tirupati in south India, where hardly any governance exists; frequent pan India serial blasts by the terrorists at will; dangerous spread of regionalism and religious hatred; very strong centrifugal forces are at play. These centrifugal forces have a strong potential to balkanize India (to a manageable size– which is the stated aim of Pakistan, perhaps an 'unstated' one by China too). If, the only centripetal force, the military, can be rendered dysfunctional due to its low self esteem, poor morale and perpetual bickering between it and the PMF, our enemies would have delightfully achieved their aim.

In view of the foregoing, is it far fetched to theorise that a conspiracy is on against India to break it and the 6th Pay Commission is just one of its tools? After all, our bureaucracy is notorious for its all pervasive corruption. With just a few thousand crores per head stashed/ stacked in foreign banks, (coming back as FDI- thanks to Finance Ministry) perhaps some of the bureaucrats have been occasionally bought by our enemies to play 'fifth columnists' against their own country by weakening its Defence Services. Otherwise how can one explain non- implementation of Subrahamanyam Report after 'Kargil' fiasco. Every one agrees that 'Kargil' was a massive intelligence failure, interestingly the then RAW chief who should have been held accountable for it, was sent as Governor of Arunanchal Pradesh, perhaps, as a reward.

We have a strong tradition of Raja Ambhis, Jai Chands and Mir Jaffars, just to name a few. It is not beyond the pale of imagination that they are again active in their modern avtars in the form of our 'Review Committees' and others bent upon destroying the morale and motivation of the Indian Military Might. When finally the final moment of reckoning comes, perhaps history would repeat itself as it has been doing from Alexander the Great onwards; over a span of about 2300 years, with just one exception of 1971 AD,victory in Bangladesh.

The nation needs to understand that degrading the Rank, Honour and skewing the Pay Parity of the Armed Forces vis a vis the Para Military Forces and Bureaucrats will render its Military "Might" to a "Naught". We need to urgently address/ set right all the Pay Commission anomalies and restore the morale of the Military

Anonymous said...

The military is the last line of defense for this country. It has to stand up and defend the institution of national security.

I have for a long time been saying that something is very rotten in Denmark. 6th CPC. CoS review committee. News Media campaign against media.

I dont for a moment think the military should launch a takeover. Pakistans experience shows such things are usually major cockups. But the military should make it clear that anyone who attempts to tanmper with the nation security will be swung from the yardarm.

Im a civilian. But I think that military officers swear an oath to protect the nation.

This is part of their job. Ensure the security of this nation! From forces outside, and traitors inside!

Anonymous said...

martyr is martyr whether from aemy or police.
during china war in 1962 lot many soldiers died due to cold but nation treated every armymen who lost his life as martyrs.Now to undermine act of bravery of IPS officer like karkare will only decrease respect of armed forces in public.
we shall rise above from such low attitudes and give martyrs their due. if we can not honour them then we have also no right to criticise martyrs like karkare and kamte who are not here to defend themselves.

Anonymous said...

I don't think its an autopsy which decides whether you are a martyr. Its your willful act in face of mortal danger that results in your kicking the bucket. Bad bloody luck and all that. I'm sure the police officers fought bravely.

Anonymous said...

I am sure many of you know the actual Farsee(Official Language of the Country under the Mughals) Warrant of Military Ranks:

(Lt)Laftaan-e-darbadr.darbabdr hi to rehta hai
(Capt)Kaptaan-e galikooche. Darbadr se badh kar galikoochon mein aataa hai.
(Maj)Afsaraane-e-hind. Sab kuch ke lie fit hai. CoI/Bd of offrs etc, thick neck for hanging etc.
(Lt Col) Nawaab-e-bemulk. How apt esp after SCPC!
(Col) Nawaab-e-shaane shaukat.
(Brig and above) Swantantrataa Sainani. I know, it isn't faarsee but come they are finally free! Freedom Fighters - everything is free for them!

pawan said...

"I can only surmise you haven't seen infantry in action in J&K. Get over your ignorance. Many NSG commandoes are from infantry, but they are especially trained for a new and entirely different job. You tend to think of NSG skills and infantry skills as perfect substitutes. God forbid if our infantry starts behaving as the NSG is supposed to or vice-versa.

Please get some education and real-world experience before you open your mouth. Will you ?"

My dear anon 4:52, could you please reveal your identity or email address as I would like to learn about infantry and NSG tactics from you. you seem to be a great expert and hence my interest in you.

Anonymous said...

The ISI rep so urgently demanded by India need not come to India. We have them here. Annonymous @ 4:52 is here and doing he job of ISI . What is the code of your bank in switzerland Annonymous @ 4:52. Are you there or you are busy coordinating further strategy of your bosses in Rawalpindi. Is it not becouse of people like you in the intellegence set up that India wakes up to an operation planned over a year only when there is a knock on the door.

PRAMOD said...

PLEASE GO THROUGH THIS. THIS MAY HELP US IN BRINGNING ABOUT A NEW INDIA. ARE YOU NOT SICK OF THESE INNEFFICIENT POLITICIANS?? AND THE SYSTEM AS A WHOLE

ITS TIME TO STOP BLAMING THE SYSTEM…. JUST CRUSH THE SYSTEM ITSELF… NOW.. WE HAVE HAD TOO MUCH OF THIS…..

YES YOU CAN MAKE A DIFFRENCE



1. The present system of political system- The so called ‘Democracy’ , as seen form the last 60 yrs of its existence has been a great failure. From the idea mooted of being a ‘by the people, for the people and to the people’ it has turned out to be a “by the people for the politicians” system of democracy. Not much has to be told to explain to you the utter failure of the present system and the almost irreparable damage it has caused to us as a nation.

2. Probably for a country like India whose diversity, social structure, cultural richness, economic growth etc. can never be drawn parallel to any country in this world, we need a different kind of system to exist and take us through.

3. One such system could be what I would like to call the “ABSOLUTE DEMOCRACY”

4. Before progressing with my ideas I would like to mention to you that I have a rather very bleak idea of political systems existing in the world including Democracy, Communist ideals, Dictatorship etc. However my ideas are probably a result of very simple logical reasons and their probable solutions as per my ability. There may exist better solutions and ideas which could possibly better this concept.


5. Certain flaws in the present system:
a. Ministers who handle various ministries have absolutely no idea of the office they are handling except for a very few of them. Their knowledge of the subject is zero and hence their utility to the nation remains in just penning signatures (if they are literate enough) and appearing for inaugurations etc.
b. Ministers often are involved in political campaigning of their own parties for various elections (assembly/ state/ and even municipal). All this at the cost of various high level committees which are left out waiting just for their presence in the GoM.
c. Appointment of a minister itself is a joke wherein the leaders of political parties who have provided (read as sold) maximum no of seats are allotted key ministries to keep them happy and to make them feel that they are part of the government too!
d. Even the prime minister becomes the puppet under the system irrespective of the fact whether he wants to do something or not.
e. The huge amount of money spent by the political parties for the elections is a national waste. Firstly where does this huge huge amount of money come from? See the pamphlets , flags , rallies , gifts etc. This is surely our own money!
f. The process of trading seats to obtain a majority ! so where is the democracy there? Did we the citizens want that to happen?
g. Every political party has its own “agenda” if they come to power. Where does that go after they come to power?
6. Also the President of India is just a ceremonial appointment. ‘Rubber stamp’ as we all call the post. Is it really so worthless or powerless an appointment which only addresses the nation on important occasions or welcomes foreign dignitaries.

7. Is it not a shame to hear our very own President and Prime minister reading out monotonously from the text (written by their secretaries) scrolling on a TV screen kept beside the camera even after 200 people are killed by terrorists? Are they so inefficient?

ABSOLUTE DEMOCRACY

8. This system may replace the existing system of political parties. Actually the necessity to have a political party was probably to set a certain goal and all the members of that party striving to achieve that one set goal. Yes we do have one such goal in all our political parties- To retain / come to power and to make the most of it as long and as fast as possible.

9. SCRAP THE SYSTEM OF POLITICAL PARTIES. We can do with individual members elected in the existing way who do not represent any particular party.

10. Persons who wish to participate in the election will get themselves registered with the election commission. They must be literate enough and must possibly be a person who has certain ideas for improvement of his constituency.

11. The person be provided a particular amount of money (very nominal depending on the population of the constituency) for propaganda. No pamphlets, no flags, no rallies. He can go from home to home and educate the citizens of his ideas. All the contestants be allowed to address the citizens at certain central places depending on the population and the size of the constituencies under the official arrangements of the election commission . Each contestant be allowed to address the public for a fixed period time one after the other. No grand arrangements required . Just a public address system. And probably a few chairs for the aged to sit down and listen. No topics related to religion, caste, region, POLITICAL PARTY and other instigating topics be allowed to be spoken. Anybody who speaks them be disqualified and return back the amount given by election commission and be criminally charged and put to jail.

12. After the election, contestants failing to obtain a prescribed minimum % of votes to return back part of money given to them by the election commission.

13. In the meanwhile the election commission is to prepare a list of eminent personalities who can take over the duties of PM, cabinet ministers. The list may have a fixed number of names say 5 or 10. The ministers are to be people who are completely aware of their particular ministries. For example the finance minister be an eminent economist, the home minister a retired IPS officer, the defence minister an ex- serviceman, the foreign minister an ex- IFS officer and so on. Also the ministries be already fixed as per requirement of the nation.


14. After the election process is over. All the newly elected members of the parliament be addressed by these list of personalities and the nation at the parliament house for a fixed period of time about their vision for, say 30 min each for the PM, finance, home, defence ministers etc and a slightly reduced time for other minor ministries.

15. After this, all the members of the house be allowed to cast their votes in the house using electronic voting machines for each of the ministers. Thereafter the ministers selected be allowed to vote in for the prime minister of their choice.

16. At each level i.e, the contestant who comes second be made his deputy. And in case of ministers be made the minister of state for that particular ministry. And similarly the post of Dy PM by the person coming second.

17. The ministers and PM need not be a member of the parliament.

18. At any time in case the elected member if found to be inefficient, that particular constituency be allowed to vote for the removal of the person. A minimum period of 1 year to be given to the elected member before this process can begin. Similar process for other ministers and the PM wherein members of parliament vote them out for being inefficient. In all cases the person next in the line (on basis of number of votes secured initially) to take over the position and the person next in line to become his deputy. No need for separate election. This system may also be used in case of natural death of the elected member/ minister. Else election be conducted again. IN CASE THE MEMBER RAKES UP ISSUES REALTED TO RELIGION/ CASTE/ REGIONALISM/POLITICAL PARTY ETC, HE BE REMOVED FROM HIS OFFICE AND CRIMINAL ACTION TAKEN AGAINST HIM.

19. The whole system to function for a period of 5 years. A member once elected not to be allowed to contest for a period of 5 years again. A maximum of 2 tenures as the member of parliament, 2 more tenures as a minister/ Minister of State and 2 more tenures as PM/ Dy PM only be allowed to prevent stagnation. Incase the person is very efficient in handling that post he may be later selected as an advisor if required.

20. Fixed working periods in the year similar to the present system. Rest of the time the MP’s to be present at their constituency. An office be provided at the constituency. MP to carry out his work from the office. Fixed period for tours of his constituency.

21. Fixed working hours in a day within which the PM / Ministers / MPs will not be allowed to do unofficial work like inaugurations, award ceremonies etc.

22. Salary to be given to each of the MPs , ministers and PM which are commensurate with their posts. A strict check to be maintained to check their wealth and income.

23. Incase the MP / minister / PM being a salaried employee before the elections, provision to be created to exempt the period of office in the Parliament and after the completion of tenure reinstate back him/ her minimum at the same designation at which the member left the office. Also the same to be authorized for the duration of election campaign to other members who fail to become the MP/ deputy MP etc. Also suitable compensation be provided if the person was from the unsalaried class/ business man/ woman.

24. With this I come to the end of my idea of ‘Absolute Democracy’ . This can obviously be improved upon by eminent people with better understanding of political field, administration, law and management.

25. Certain opposition that this system may draw will be on account of the following.
This will only involve probably a majority of the educated class. Hence the rural side will be left out. SOLUTION : Don’t worry the educated class realize the importance of rural India. Also members may be from the rural class. Who is stopping them? No money / politics is involved. So anybody can stand for the elections and win if suitable. EVEN YOU!

26. Will this derail the present system of administration as a whole? No it only modifies the way our representatives are elected. No change is being made to the system as such. Hence the relationship between the judiciary, bureaucracy and the democratic setup remains intact . it would be just free of dirty politics.

27. If none of these seem logical, atleast the fact that last 60 yrs have made hardly any good for the nation seems a viable logic. We can atleast try something new.


So fellow citizens lets join hands and try to make a difference. Let us all start a movement to get this moving. Assembly elections are nearing. We may save valuable money if we act fast.
ACTIONS TO BE TAKEN:

1. FILE A PETETION IN THE SUPREME COURT IMMEDIATELY TO STAY THE COMING ASSEMBLY ELECTION FOR ABOUT 3-4 MONTHS TILL THIS NEW SYSTEM CAN BE FORMULATED. APPROVAL OF SUPREME COURT BE AVAILED AND LAWS MODIFIED TO SUPPORT IMPLEMEMNTATION OF THE SYSTEM AND TO PUNISH THE DEFAULTERS.

2. A NATION WIDE MOVEMENT TO MAKE THE COUNTRY ESPECIALLY THE RURAL POPULATION AWARE OF THIS NEW IDEA.

3. NO NEED FOR A POLITICAL COUP / TAKE OVER. THIS SYSTEM WILL JUST REPLACE THE NEXT GOVERNMENT LEGALLY ( ONCE THE LAWS ARE AMMENDED SUITABLY).

4. MEDIA TO PLAY A VERY MAJOR ROLE IN CREATING AWARENESS AND CREATE A MOVEMENT IN THE NATION SUPPORTING THE ‘ABSOLUTE DEMOCRACY’ . BUT ALL MOVEMEMENTS MUST BE PEACEFUL.

5. INVOLVEMENT OF THE EDUCATED AND ELITE CLASS, LAW MAKERS, RETIRED BUERAUCRATS, INDUSTRIALISTS, MANAGEMENT GURUS TO SIT DOWN AND FINE TUNE THIS SYSTEM TO BE IMPLEMENTED. FOR THIS A GROUP BE FORMED WITH PERMISSION OF THE SUPREME COURT / PRESIDENT.

6. GRADUALLY THIS SYSTEM TO TAKE OVER IN ALL STATES.

7. A PERIOD OF 10 YEARS TO EXPERIMENT WITH THIS SYSTEM. IF IT FAILS THEN WE CAN FALL BACK TO THE EXISTING SYSTEM..

WHY NOT GIVE THIS A TRY???









CERTAIN URGENT REFORMS REQUIRED
(SOME FOOD FOR THOUGHT)

1. ALL POLITICAL GROUPS BE COMPLETELY ABOLISHED. NO SYSTEM OF ELECTIONS IN COLLEGES/ UNIVERSITIES AND TRADE UNIOUNS AND THE LIKES OF IT BASED ON POLITICAL GROUPS (LIKE NSUI / ABVP / INTUC etc) . IS IT REQUIRED??

2. ACADEMIC SYLLABUS ALL OVER THE NATION TO HAVE CHAPTERS RELATED TO THE NATION, SOCIAL REFORMS, SACRIFICES OF FREEDOM FIGHTERS , THE ARMED FORCES, HERIOC DEEDS OF THE NATION’S SECURITY FORCES (INCLUDING POLICE) . EXAMS TO BE CONDUCTED ON THIS SUBJECT EVEN AT POST GRADUATE LEVELS. IF NOT SOON OUR YOUNGER GENERATION WILL NOT BE AWARE OF THE SACRIFICES AND THE DAY WILL NOT BE FAR WHEN THERE WILL BE NO PEOPLE JOINING ARMED FORCES , POLICE AND OTHER FORCES. THEN WHO WILL GUARD YOU??

3. COMPULSORY ENROLLMENT INTO EITHER NCC OR NSS FOR STUDENTS UPTO GRADUATION. MINIMUM 2 YEARS OF SOCIAL SERVICE IN RURAL AREAS / TERRITORIAL ARMY/ PARAMILITARY FORCES/ POLICE / EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICE( FOR MEDICAL STUDENTS) AFTER COMPLETION OF GRADUATION. GOVT TO TAKE CARE OF ALL NECESSITIES AND GIVE STIPEND DURING THE ABOVE PERIOD. PEOPLE JOINING ARMED FORCES / PARAMILITARY FORCES/ POLICE / IAS / OTHER GOVERNMENT JOBS BE EXEMPTED FROM THIS.

4. A SPECIAL SOCIAL SERVICE ORGANISATION BE STARTED TO ORGANISE THIS LARGE SCALE MOVEMENT TO SERVE ALL QUARTERS LIKE RURAL AREAS/ SLUMS/ ILLITERATE PEOPLE/ POOR/ OLD AGED PEOPLE/ CHILDREN/ EMERGENCY SERVICES / ANTI-CORRUPTION FORCE ETC

5. IT IS WE WHO CAN DO SOMETHING. DON’T JUST KEEP FORWARDING MAILS. IT HELPS IN DOING NOTHING.

6. REMOVE ALL RESERVATIONS BASED ON CASTE ,CREED AND RELIGION. ACTUALLY WE HAVE CAUSED A RIFT IN THE NATION BY THIS POLICY OF RESERVATION RATHER THAN MAKING IT SECULAR. RESERVATIONS TO BE BASED ONLY ON ECONOMIC CONDITIONS OF THE POPULATION.

kgr said...

Dear Sir,
After going through most of the comments above, one realises the actual and real cause of our sufferings.
Upto 1947 we were divided by a foreign power and now we are being kept divided by the intellectuals commenting in this blog.
Of all the nations on this earth why only India/ Bharat/ Hindustan is cursed with these sons of the soil.
PROBABLY GOD IS ALSO WONDERING AND HAS NO ANSWER.

Anonymous said...

New York was struck by terrorists on 11th September 2001. By 1st October, a Homeland Defence Command had been established and placed under a 4-star military officer. The US Secretary of the Army stated: “…homeland security is the No. 1 job for the US military and we will act accordingly.” On 26th October, Public Law 107-56 was enacted by the US Congress without debate. The contrived acronym USA PATRIOT (standing for: Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism) explains the purport of the Act. With the sweeping powers available, the Homeland Defence Command has ensured that the USA has remained free of terrorism since 2001. Need one say more?

Every newspaper and TV channel is, today, reflecting how drastically the stock of the politician has fallen with the common man. If India’s polity wants to redeem itself in the public eye they must forget hypocritical vacuous statements, forget ex-gratia payments, forget commissions of enquiry; there is only one service they can perform for the nation. And that is to convene an emergency session of both Houses of Parliament, and, sinking their petty differences, show the people that for once they have not their own, but the nation’s vital interests at heart.

This historic session of Parliament should enact or start the process for legislation for:

• Constituting a Homeland Defence Organization, be it a civil ministry, a military command or a combination of the two, with appropriate instruments at its disposal.
• Empowerment of this organization with wide-ranging authority to, inter alia, monitor the movements, search and detain if necessary individuals suspected of posing a threat to the nation, gain access to telephones, e-mails, bank accounts and any other information in the interest of homeland safety.
• Implementing reforms to free the police forces of the debilitating yoke of political interference.

Yes this will be a draconian measure, but for how long must the people of India remain hostage to terror exported from the neighbourhood, due to the weakness and lack of resolve of our leaders?

(Admiral Prakash Chief of the Naval Staff (Retd)
These comments are from a column printed in magazine he contributes to.)

Anonymous said...

New York was struck by terrorists on 11th September 2001. By 1st October, a Homeland Defence Command had been established and placed under a 4-star military officer. The US Secretary of the Army stated: “…homeland security is the No. 1 job for the US military and we will act accordingly.” On 26th October, Public Law 107-56 was enacted by the US Congress without debate. The contrived acronym USA PATRIOT (standing for: Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism) explains the purport of the Act. With the sweeping powers available, the Homeland Defence Command has ensured that the USA has remained free of terrorism since 2001. Need one say more?

Every newspaper and TV channel is, today, reflecting how drastically the stock of the politician has fallen with the common man. If India’s polity wants to redeem itself in the public eye they must forget hypocritical vacuous statements, forget ex-gratia payments, forget commissions of enquiry; there is only one service they can perform for the nation. And that is to convene an emergency session of both Houses of Parliament, and, sinking their petty differences, show the people that for once they have not their own, but the nation’s vital interests at heart.

This historic session of Parliament should enact or start the process for legislation for:

• Constituting a Homeland Defence Organization, be it a civil ministry, a military command or a combination of the two, with appropriate instruments at its disposal.
• Empowerment of this organization with wide-ranging authority to, inter alia, monitor the movements, search and detain if necessary individuals suspected of posing a threat to the nation, gain access to telephones, e-mails, bank accounts and any other information in the interest of homeland safety.
• Implementing reforms to free the police forces of the debilitating yoke of political interference.

Yes this will be a draconian measure, but for how long must the people of India remain hostage to terror exported from the neighbourhood, due to the weakness and lack of resolve of our leaders?

(Admiral Prakash Chief of the Naval Staff (Retd)
These comments are from a column printed in magazine he contributes to.)

Major Ramesh said...

I think it is not appropriate to compare NSG commandos and the ATG sleuths. ATG is more of investigative agency which goes after the terrorists/ local goondaas after the act. Where as the NSG is a action group which comes into live action. Both are different.
Though I have all the sympathisees with the slain elite ATS trio but look at the importance they are given as against the NSG commandos.

From the details of the only eye witness alive the seven/ eight ATS personnel including the three top notches were eleminated by two terrorists and even their vehicle taken away and used.

While I dont, even for an iota of a second, doubt there valour/ dedication/ sincerity but I feel we definetly can compare the two forces.

Had it not been for the Defence Commandos there would have been more mahyem.

God bless the Politicians and the Babus who are bent upon eroding the morale and Izzat of such forces which boasted of getting the cream of the country's youth into its fold is now the last choice for the youth.

Anonymous said...

The Living terrorist Safad, as shown by a mobile camara clip and broadcasted by the TV chanels, was nabbed and beaten up by the people and subsequently handed over to the Police.

Bombay police all the while has been claiming otherwise....

Wah...Wah......Long live the "Aam Admi"....

Kaps said...

An Analysis

I do not have any access to intelligence or first hand information gathered via interrogation of Mohd Ajmal Amir Amin. This analysis regarding the timing of attacks is based entirely on information available in public domain.

There are media reports that this attack was planned in early September but was postponed and the order to go ahead by the handler named Zaki-ur-rehman Lakhvi was given only in end November. Now please recall time line of 6th CPC imbroglio. It was in end August that perpetration caused bu CoS was highlighted and a GoM was constituted in early September.

My point here is that the imbroglio of 6th CPC was engineered by ISI and the effect it achieved was ideal for any foreign marauder looking to disintegrate. I will go as far as to say that had the GoM not been constituted, we would have seen this attack in early September itself when all the hue and cry about "Armed Forces show descent" was being raised.

In the period intervening constitution of GoM and actual attacks in end November, the Blogs dealing with military issues have been rife with anonymous posters trying to incite participating armed forces personnel. The comments posted by these anonymous users were quite vicious. In addition, the invisible decision making process of GoM was bringing out a lot of despondent posting by members of armed forces themselves, giving a hint of a morale that was at an all time low. The icing on the cake came in the wake of cracking up of Malegaon bomb blast probe. Implication of Lt Col Purohit provided enough reason for perpetrators to realise the state of Indian Armed Forces, and tactically they would have found it an appropriate period to carry out the attacks that had been in planning stages for months and had already been postponed.

This may all be called conjectural, but to leave any side of the story un-investigated will be like ignoring the intelligence dispatches received as a routine. I would therefore like to submit that the angle of subverting 6th CPC with negative connotations for Armed forces and destabilising an already existent command structure must be investigated.

Thank you.

Anonymous said...

PLEASE ASK SHRI SHRI SHEKHAR GUPTA ,HIS BABUS & RAJ THAKERY TO GO & SAVE THE COUNTRY FROM THE TERRORISTS. LET ME ASK THEM AS TO HOW IT LOOKED ON TV FROM THEIR AC ROOMS ? SHAME ON ALL CONCERNED ON DECISION ON FAUJIS PAY!!!!!

rajesh kumar

Anonymous said...

Shame on every body if no PB4 for Lt Cols.
But if PB4 to Lt Cols then everthing is right.
Shame on your thinking confined to PB4.

Anonymous said...

ANONYMOUS@5.54 PM,,,,,,,

SHAME ON YOU FOR THINIKING IT IS SHAMEFUL FOR US TO ASK FOR PB4............WHEN U ARE HAVING A GREAT TIME!!!!!!!!

Gautam Jha said...

Leaders Not Heroes
Gautam Jha
gkjha123@gmail.com

The public response to the recent shootings in downtown Mumbai leading to over 200 dead appears to be dissimilar to earlier incidents. Bombings on earlier occasions that led to even higher casualties did not evince such ferocity of opinion. This time the politicians were howled at while the babus, as usual, skilfully made themselves scarce at this hour of reckoning. True to form the Police and Army officers bungled and gambled, respectively, with their lives. An examination of the ‘difference’ in our response this time round may indicate whether it will result in any progress towards a safer civil society.
First let’s take the nature of the attack. Unlike the place-and-forget bombs of the previous decade this was an extended shooting spree. The clear, present, and continuing danger was faithfully beamed into our bedrooms. The jihadis’ use of the media as a force multiplier was overwhelming. The event forced you on notice even if you had gone to sleep or went on a holiday of less than 62 hours. But then, it is not beyond the pale of imagination that if the media were not there, who knows, the perpetrators may have gotten away after the act!
Second, the rich and famous too were the victims this time. The characteristic shrillness of the response, as Mahesh Bhatt pointed out, may have been the result of the upper classes (sans the politician and babu) being killed. That such a response does not reflect the vast majority was accurately but inconveniently (to his detriment) expressed by Naqvi of the BJP.
Third although this attack resembled Akshardham it was a far more military like – brilliant in planning and bold in execution. That surprise was complete is evident from the clips of ATS officers strolling about trying to figure out the gangsters responsible for the ruckus.
Fourth, the opportunity to fight terrorists in real time illustrated the chaos of governance. Till date nobody knows who was in charge. Even the army doesn’t know if and when the situation was handed over to them. It underscores loudly to those who care to listen, that even minimum prior coordination between the Chief Secretary and Military Commander was conspicuous by its complete absence. Festering protocol issues?
What about the Mumbai Police? Are we to believe that the Mumbai Police was not even equipped to kill ten AK-47 toting youngsters? If that is true then are we to believe that other Indian cities are also at the mercy of a dozen motivated criminals? And which sophisticated weapons and equipment were the terrorists carrying? Was it not the Mumbai lower middle class citizenry that thrashed the only surviving terrorist? The deficiency, if any, was of resolute and selfless leadership in the administrative machinery. The complete void in the police force after Kamte’s sudden killing showed the bankruptcy of leadership in a police force ‘administered’ by police managers.
The tragedy is that the Chief Secretary who is the chief of the administrative machinery can never be held accountable. And to top it all we have had declarations of fantastic donations from none other than the ‘friendly neighbourhood terror fighter’ Modi and others. We are now resigned to a few reluctant reshuffle of ministerial and secretarial portfolios and some sabre rattling by MEA mandarins. Of course the blame game has begun -MoD, MHA, Navy, MEA, Army, IB, RAW, the lot. Wait for the mudslinging fest around the corner.
The rude fact is that we want others to fight this dirty war. We may bay for Achutanandan’s blood but his remark about Maj Sandeep’s family was not very off the mark. Indeed, no politician (I don’t know about dogs) would care a damn about the Major had he not made the supreme sacrifice. Chilling, but true.
Now that this armchair attitude has landed the war at our doorsteps, the rich and famous as well as commoners of Bombay are struggling for the best bargain. We are looking for heroes. We ought to be looking for a leader who can lead the fight on terror.

Anonymous said...

HEAR HIS PRESIDENT AUNTY PAYS VISIT TO KARKARE AND SALASKAR'S HOUSES NOT TO MAJ SANDEEP'S

NONA said...

JHA,
very well said.
Leader se yaad aya.Is the leader not supposed to lead?And should he not be expected to be there in the thick of action and be facing injuries/death along with his followers/people whome he/she leads?If so,then please try to recall and tell me if U remember name of any Politician/IAS/IPS ever being affected by adversities being faced by their respective followers/subordinates?
On the other hand please try and tell me any occassion wherein Army was deployed and OFFICERS are not the first ones to face the worst adversities and got injured/died.
Lets face it,THEY R THE TRUE LEADERS,REST ARE "INSTIGATORS"OR TAMASHBEENS.

murali said...

@ gautam jha
good analysis ..but there are more questions than answers.

as per news reports, our home ministry has direct control over the fifth largest armed forces in the world. at over 8 lakhs , the strength is more than that of pak army.

but there appears to be only two bns (SAG), that too with personnel on deputaion from army, who can take on the job of counter terrorism. again we seem to be headed further in the direction of quantity over quality because we are yet to differentiate between army and security personnel other than army.

NONA said...

Ahon @ 07:15,
Bhai banda apne sautele bachchon se pehale apne wafadar kutton ka haal he poochata hai.Rashtrapat(n)i jee ko tuchche netaoon ne wahan baithaya hai warna woh to kahin scene mein hi nahin theen,to woh bhi unhi ki tarah behave karengi.Jo kutte sara din talwe chatte hain wohi to jyada important hain.Fauji wauji to unke gulam hain aur woh to marte warte rehte hi hain.Kya fark padta hai?

Anonymous said...

President is the Supreme Commander Of Armed Forces?????

Anonymous said...

Oye GK. Well written piece. We always knew you had a flair for writing.You don't seem to have lost it while footslogging. Where are you? commanding?
As ever,
Cocksy

Anonymous said...

1. Every one who died, police/army/NSG/civs ,did not deserve to, whatever the circumstances.
2. Let there be no "holier that thou" rantings please.
3. The MARCOS news conf was a subtle and excellent PR coup, but should never have happened.It was smart to introduce the team, nicely dressed and arranged for the photo op and leave. The youngster gave away too much to the trained ear.
4. Please stop denigrating either the police or the army.
5. THe NSG should have a PRO to handle the media and maintain anonymity.....glory be damned.

Anonymous said...

Cheer up guys.

I bought a new Honda City and returned to the dealer the next day complaining that I couldn't figure out how the radio worked. The salesman explained that the radio was voice activated. 'Watch this!', he said, 'Nelson'! The Radio replied, 'Ricky or Willie?' 'Willie!', he continued and 'On The Road Again' came from the speakers. Then he said, 'Ray Charles!', and in an instant 'Georgia On My Mind' replaced Willie Nelson.

I drove away happy, and for the next few days, every time I'd say, 'Beethoven,' I'd get beautiful classical music, and if I said, 'Beatles,'I'd get one of their awesome songs.

Yesterday, a couple ran a red light and nearly creamed my new car, but I swerved in time to avoid them. I yelled, 'Ass Holes!' Immediately the Pakistani National Anthem began to play, sung by Asif Zardari and Mian Sharif, backed up by Musharaff and Kayani, with Imran Khan on guitar, Farzana Raja on drums, Shah Mahmood Qureshi on harmonica, Judge Chowhury on tambourine, George Bush on sax and Sherry Rehman on scotch...! If you had a good ear you could make out the flat notes of Hamid Gul.

Damn, I LOVE this car!

Anonymous said...

Anonymous wrote:

"
The Living terrorist Safad, as shown by a mobile camara clip and broadcasted by the TV chanels, was nabbed and beaten up by the people and subsequently handed over to the Police.

Bombay police all the while has been claiming otherwise....

Wah...Wah......Long live the "Aam Admi"....

December 2, 2008 4:21 PM
"


And do you also believe the Taj staff killed the terrorists and handed them over to the NSG commandoes, and that the two NSG commandoes shot themselves dead????


SHAME ON YOU...

You just want to run down the police forces. Are you afraid that the public might recognize their contribution to be more valuable than that of NSG???

Now read this...

"
Supreme sacrifice which led to the prized catch
Mumbai, PTI:
Promoted as Assistant Sub-Inspector, 48-year-old Tukaram Omble was one such braveheart. His is one of the many heroic stories that has emerged as the dust settles on the deadly terror strikes in Mumbai.


Those who live by the gun also die by its shadow. But there are a few who attain martyrdom and leave behind a legend to emulate and remember.

Recently promoted as Assistant Sub-Inspector, 48-year-old Tukaram Omble was one such braveheart.

His is one of the many heroic stories that has emerged as the dust settles on the deadly terror strikes in Mumbai.

Thanks to this daredevil, the police could arrest at least one terrorist alive, whom investigating agencies are now making sing.

Acting on a message received on his walkie-talkie on the night of November 26, Omble chased down two terrorists, armed with Kalashnikov assault rifles, as they headed towards Girgaum Chowpatty.

Meanwhile, the D B Nagar Police station team was setting up a ‘naka bandi’ at the Chowpatty signal after the message was circulated.

“We had barricaded the road at Girgaum Chowpatty soon after we received a message that two terrorists had hijacked a Skoda and were firing randomly in South Mumbai,” Assistant inspector Hemant Bavdhankar of D B Nagar Police station said.

“Moments later, we saw a car bearing the description slowing down at a distance of around 50 feet away from us. As the vehicle was trying to take a U-turn, it hit the road-divider,” he said.

The car then started drawing closer to the police and Mohammad Ajmal Amir Iman (the arrested terrorist) came out of the car and pretended to surrender, only to open fire seconds later.
Without caring for his life or the consequences, Ombale took Iman head on. He sprang towards the ultra and gripped the barrel of his AK-47 rifle with both hands.

With the barrel pointing towards the cop, Iman pulled the trigger. The brave policeman took all the bullets on himself.

Bullet-holed Ombale collapsed, but did not let go of Iman. Thus, he not only provided a perfect cover to his team, but also prevented Iman from firing at any one else and in turn saving many precious lives.

The other team members had, by then, killed the other terrorist Ismail. They now pounced on Iman and captured him.
Thanks to the valor and supreme sacrifice of this fearless cop, investigators are now unravelling the scale of the terror operation from Iman, who was an operative of Lashkar-e-Taiba for the last one-and-a-half years.

"

Link: http://deccanherald.com/Content/Dec22008/national20081202104264.asp?section=updatenews

NOW THIS IS BRAVERY I CAN BELIEVE IN!!!
God bless you all.

Anonymous said...

Navdeep wrote:

"It is also necessary to promote initiative within the uniformed forces. When INS TABAR took on Somalian pirates, it was reported that certain elements in Delhi had castigated the Navy for not keeping them in picture, though later the Navy was rightfully given its pat."

If the Navy has rightfully been given the pat, you would not object if it is also rightfully reprimanded - the so-called-pirate mother-ship was a civilian ship hijacked by the pirates, and when the Navy blew it up the civilians died, the pirates escaped on speedboats and the Navy could not catch them. The same mother-ship was earlier intercepted by the British Navy and was let go because of the hostages, but our publicity-hungry Navy thought better to challenge it, and sink it without imagining there could be hostages on board. Thank God the NSG or MARCOS did not follow the Navy's initiative.

Anonymous said...

Gentlemen !!! I heard somewhere that Rahul Gandhi has decided to join the
Army part time . He is joining some RajRif TA Battalion . He has decided to join the fight agaist terror directly

Anonymous said...

Did you know that there is a system in our constitution, as per the 1969 act, in section " 49-O" that a person can go to the polling booth, confirm his identity, get his finger marked and convey the presiding election officer that he/she doesn't want to vote anyone! Yes such a feature is available, but obviously past + present leaders have never disclosed it.



This is called "49-O".



Why should You go and say " I VOTE NOBODY". Because, in a ward, if a candidate wins, say by 123 votes, and that particular ward has received "49-O" votes more than 123, then that polling will be cancelled and will have to be re-polled. Not only that, but the candidature of the contestants will be removed and they cannot contest the re-polling, since people had already expressed their decision on them.



This would bring fear into parties and hence look for genuine candidates for their parties for election. This would change the way; of our whole political system. It is seemingly surprising why the election commission has not revealed such a feature to the public.



Please spread this news to as many as You know.



Seems to be a wonderful weapon against corrupt parties in India. Show Your power, expressing Your desire not to vote for anybody, is even more powerful than voting. So don't miss Your chance. So either vote, or vote not to vote (vote 49-O) and pass this information to all.



Use your voting right for a better INDIA. Share this with as many as You can. Because sharing is caring. It is caring about our dear Mother India.

Anonymous said...

1. Which operation has Mr. J K Dutt taken part during 71 war to earn the Sangram Medal?

2. What combat experience does he have to lead and motivate the NSG commandoes, who took part in Mumbai ops. ?

Where life is at stake , the combat experince of the leader is very important to plan and execute the ops.

I'll be greatful if you could enlighten me on the above.

Lt. Col. ( Retd. ) V. K. Arora

Sonam said...

The Death Anniversary of the Additional Commissioner of Mumbai Police Mr. #AshokKamte was on 26thNov. Let us all pay a heartfelt #tribute to him on http://ashok-kamte.tributes.in

In case you wish to create a tribute for your loved ones as well, Please give us a missed call on +91-9643105042.
Our associates will get in touch with you.
You can also create a profile yourself on - www.tributes.in