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Monday, January 10, 2011

Illegal (Police) badges of rank in J & K

IPS officers of the Senior Time Scale (Pay Band-3, Grade Pay 6600) are illegally wearing the State Emblem with Two Stars on their shoulders alongwith dark blue gorget patches on their collars.

The State of J&K has allowed this illegal precedent to flourish and all officers holding the charge of districts are wearing these incorrect rank badges. As per the IPS Uniform Rules, only officers of the Selection Grade, which is attainable only after 13 years of service, or Senior Time Scale officers with minimum 15 years of service in the IPS are allowed to wear the State Emblem with Two Stars. However IPS officers even from the 2004 batch who are posted as District Police Chiefs in J&K are currently wearing the ibid incorrect rank badges. Such is the grave nature of this anomaly that some of the batch/course-mates of such J&K cadre officers posted in Delhi are wearing the State Emblem alone and so are their counterparts in the Army who are Majors.

The State Govt has no power to prescribe different badges of rank other than those provided in the statutory rules since the IPS is an All India Service. Moreover, no permission or amendment in rules for officers posted in J&K has been initiated by the Govt of India and the same has been confirmed to me in writing by the MHA. The illegal action is being perpetrated ostensibly to ‘boost the morale’ of such young officers and to ‘aid’ their interaction with senior Army officers and those of the CPOs.

24 comments:

Anonymous said...

Wow... something needs to be done ASAP to correct this! What is the action which can be taken?

Harry said...

@ All

Well.. well.. well !
To be honest the fact is that to most civilians (Govt and its functionaries included) ranks and rank badges make NO DIFFERENCE unlike those who belong to the uniformed services. A crude analogy which I can cite is following:-
Does anyone give a damn what a security guard outside an ATM is wearing on his shoulder?

Whatever we may say, this is the public perception in general! <

How unfortunate though :(

Anonymous said...

Dear Maj Navdeep,
This is my combined response to your, this as well as previous blog. I fully subscribe to your view on both the subjects. But our basic fault lies in our approach. Like, instead of asking for our own member in pay commission we ask for a separate pay commission which I am certain, will allow babus to put more spoke, as they will now make us justify even those things which had so far come to us automatically by virtue of being clubbed with other central govt employees. Case in point being our failure to get outfit allowance increased in 6cpc whereas CEA saw a thumping increase because the pressure group was of civilians. That is what our capability is!
Regarding our manpower policies , to maint equality with civilians at all levels our needs are threefold, firstly, officers dealing with manpower issues must be handpicked, based on their aptitude and knowledge( or they should be trained for it) and not merely on the basis of psc, HC or HDMC .Knowledgeable ESM as consultants can also be employed. Secondly, a synergy in all the three wings of the armed forces on manpower issues, as it is the most oft used tool of bureaucracy for dividing to rule .We do have the apex level committee of three services(probably PPOC ) but better coordination is required before any proposal goes to MoD. Third and most importantly, educate our officers from the beginning at the training stage itself about rules, regulations of civilians in comparison to armed forces, as our ignorance has been the root cause of our disparity with civilians. Parity is a very crucial, relevant and sensitive subject for our armed forces and, we do feel the pinch of it, but, sadly, still do not apply ourselves to remove it. Our officer lot needs to be taught that these are important for them to understand. Lt Col posted to AGIF New Delhi till date are called Asst Dir (which is equal to section officer or one grade senior in civil parlance and pay scale) whereas rest of the service HQ designate Lt Col as Jt Dir. We and our bosses think that it doesn’t make any material difference since it doesn’t affect pay and allces, but if you think from a civilian’s point of view, you have degraded yourself, for he will only consider you as a section officer equivalent, no matter what military rank you have, and as has been seen, that when the time comes, an ignorant pay commission will equate Brigs to DIG and somebody like Gen Deepak Kapoor will have a tough time convincing Expenditure Secretary Sushma Nath, not to consider Brigs equal to DIG since they wear the same rank! And this is true of by and large all civilians, that they see our ranks through the prism of civilian hierarchy and hence our knowledge about them and maint of appropriate equality is a must. How many of us know whether we are organized gp A service or not? Firstly, we are neither All India service officers nor group A service officers. We are 'commissioned officers’ which have not been equated anywhere by any govt notification, and hence cannot by any rule, seek same benefits which other civil services officers get. Whatever parity we have been getting in status and finance, has been based on historical norms which are diminishing gradually. If we do not get pay parity with IAS officers like organized group A service(non functional up gradation), or, we do not get incorporated in Central Staffing Scheme(I am certain 100% service officers will ask what’s that ?) it is because there is no govt order existing, granting us automatic parity. So, this is one major subject we need to work on. The need of the hour is to have a set up which studies civil manpower policies of GOI, updates it regularly, and studies its impact upon us. This will only come through employing persons, who understand the subject and have continuity because unless we do all this, issues like badges, pay, allowances and parity will continue to hit us.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous @ January 10, 2011 12:11 PM.

You have really set the tone for what should be the Mother of all Discussions.
Your point that we are Commissioned officers and no parity has been notified is extremely relevant. This is something that even Major Navdeep may have overlooked.
The Govt should be asked to bring out a parity Notification and that will tell us what they think of the Fauji Officer Cadre.

Harry said...

@ Anony above at 4:54 pm

Sir,

Don't you already KNOW what Govt 'thinks' of Defence Officers' Cadre? Or is it the 'confirmation' of open secret that you are seeking!!

rajawat said...

equality between the services ,

this is a very sensitive issue . supreme court has already ruled that given the different structure and grades in different services there can not be an absolute parity among different services . whatever govt decide there will be heartburns .
one single order or any single logic can not define the parity between different services .
the service which is kept at LOWER PLACE will make hue and cry .
if govt place lt col above dir then civilians will cry or vice versa .
issuing parity orders does not mean the supremacy of armed forces or civilians . so in my view some questions are better left unresolved .

need of the hour is to look beyond parity , can u answer who is superior a horse or a donkey . both are creation of the god and doing their role . i think we can do a lot creative
rajawat

Anonymous said...

In mix organisations like HQ IDS, BSF, NSG, Cab Sectt etc, Brigs r working as Directors / DIG and reporting to the civilian officers of the rank of IG & joint Secy. After implementation of AVSC Part I, The Lt Cols r being posted as GE & OC RCC (and reporting to SE with Grade Pay of Rs 8700) which r manned by Executive Engineers with grade pay of Rs 6600 from civilian side. Until unless we stop this dilution, the equivalence issue will not be resolved.

Anonymous said...

@ Harry
Well said.
Nothing more needs to be added.Even earliar replys were exact and to the point.
Do we need need to explain more ,but to whom ? The people who are actually not willing to listen .
God bless ESMs .
Gurdeep Singh
Group Captain (retd)

Navdeep / Maj Navdeep Singh said...

@Anony at 10.13AM

I have already taken it up officially and would make sure that the illegality is nipped in the bud.

@Rajawat

The issue at hand is not about equivalence at all. It is about illegal wearing of higher badges of rank by IPS officers posted in the State of J&K. It does not concern the Army per se but every single service incl IPS offrs posted in other states.

Anonymous said...

Dear Maj Navdeep,
Can we request your comments on the issue of notification regarding parity of defence officers with civil services officers as suggested by anonymous@January 10, 12.11.

SATTY'S CORNER said...

As per the Constitution Armed forces are not central govt employees but come directly under the Supreme Cdr for maintaining national integrity and defending the country.
So there is no equivalence.These are self created.The civs want to equate themselves witth faujis.It is a psyco disorder.
On the other hand fault lies with us also.Where a Major can do a job we send a Col and upwards.We have to set our own house in order too.
Equivalence is only for functional requirements and that happens at higher HQs.This a never ending discussion.
What Navdeep has pointed out is very relevant where badges of rank are eye sores and display authority.These need to be corrected.

Anonymous said...

@ Harry on 10/01 at 11.31 am & 5.4 pm

Well. How and who started this degradation of our services first? To start with, ponder over the following you may get the answer. Who and how the erstwhile Viceroy Commissioned Officer were re- designated as JCOs. And further, who reduced them to PBOR. If not surprising it would be interesting to know. Aameeen

Anonymous said...

What Satty has said is partially correct. Equivalence is a functional requirement at higher HQ, yes , but do we have it?There is nothing wrong in asking for equivalence by govt notification. If anything, it will resolve a lot of contentious issues one way or the other.Indian Governments till date have been like amoebas, they get pulled in the direction pressure is applied upon them.That is why we have so many anamolies floating around,PB4 is a live example of this.We applied pressure and we got something. And after all when govt can upgrade service of CBI officers from group B to group A, it can surely notify the so far followed norm of commissioned officers as group A officers, or else the babus will always find loopholes to pull us down or deny us our justified dues.

rajbir yadav said...

how does it make a difference. we should remain what we are. do you all know that in civil services assure career progression is applicable right upto hag scale and in armed forces it is only now given to pbor only. maj navdeep can ypou throw some light why this discripancy and is any one taking up the isuue of acp to officers also.

Harry said...

@ Annony above at 2:10 pm

I googled to check about VCOs. The details are here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junior_Commissioned_Officer


To my knowledge PBOR term has been coined by MoD babus for their convenience. Come to think of it, that way it can even be applied to the civ non-officer Govt Servants!
But I agree it's incorrect and demeaning to use this term.

rajawat said...

notification for parity will not help .not possible to equate army v/ s air force , army v/s navy , army v/s IAS army v/s IPS , army v/s cpmf , ias v/s engineers , IAS v/s other civilians ,army v/s forest officials etc etc

i dare any body to propose a list which is acceptable to all

i know nobody will come forward ,

only poosible is a functional parity at higher HQ as somebody said

rajawat

rajawat said...

dear major navdeep
it will be interesting to know what rank and badges the officers who are actually authorized to wear State Emblem with Two Stars on their shoulders alongwith dark blue gorget patches on their collars are wearing . are they wearing the ranks of a maj general or lt general .
and what rank and badges are DIG,s and IG ARE WEARING .
does this practice of wearing higher then authorised rank and badges stops at lower level or it is progressive . kindly elaborate .

rajawat

Anonymous said...

Yes, it is possible to have parity based on scale like US Army's GS scales and O scales where comparable scales are existing for each rank and it will not be army v/s navy or army v/s AF etc. It can only be military equivalence of civil grade.

Anonymous said...

This is anonymous @10 January 12.11 pm again responding to Rajawat's point that parity will create various issues of army v/v AF or army v/s IAS etc. No,I can suggest the solution that you notify the armed forces officers as equal to any other group A service and hence whatever other group A services get, say , for example, parity in pay and allces with IAS after a max of two years(which they are all getting now , and we are not,and as a result all group A service officers start drawing salary of a Jt Secy in 19 yrs of service with GP 10000 while most of us are stuck at GP 8000 at that service) which they are enjoying,will also become applicable to us.

Anonymous said...

@rajbir yadav.
that PBOR are having ACP.
Please sir, our eyes are WIDE SHUT. Even in the police ACP jumps are from Sep to HAV(10 yrs) to Insp (20 yrs) and above in 30+ yrs of service. whereas in the Def Forces, we have ACP to Nk at 8 yrs, Hav at 16 yrs and Nb sub at 24 yrs. And to top it all, most sepoys retire less than 20 and very few reach 24+ to take third ACP. Of the sepoys who become JCOs, ACP has just no meaning at all.
And icing the cake is the injustice to direct entry hav or JCOs, who have no ACP scheme to give them ACP to sub maj or Offr ranks.
It is high time that def officers need to raise their ORs in the society esteem and get automatically elevated, rather than raising by pushing the quicksand down, which is what is happening now, or since III cpc.
The earlier we learn, the better it can be.

Anonymous said...

Why Indian Army can not amend rules for wearing of Badges?

Why should there be no upgradation. Say why cann't Brigs wear Ashok emblams and higher ranks increase their stars? The CO's should be allowed to put on today's Brigs ranks.

Has any one stopped the Army from doing that ? If the govt does, then the issue can be resolved.

The Armed Forces always ask why others are doing instead of why they are not doing?

Rigidity is only usefull for certain purposes..

B P SINGH said...

Dear Navdeep,
Happy Lohri to you and all officer and men of uniformed services.God bless happiness to one and all.
B P Singh
www.indiancpmf.blogspot.com

Anonymous said...

the fact is that if you change one link you will have to change the whole mechanism,so why bother about the badges on someones shoulders as long as someone is serving the country with fervor which i think is a gift in itself,we have to remember that the the army never compares their salaries to iim graduates remember ias is equivalent to that yet they are not even paid 30% of that,we are hear to serve the country and its people good or bad,saints and thugs alike,when we go into the warzone we fight for both.

sunil kumar said...

Dear Major,

The the reason for J& K police officer have to wear those badges is that Army has Diluted its Rank.

1) earlier a Lt Col used to command a battalion now a Col does the same thing

2) Earlier a Major used to command a company. Now a LT COl. does it.

3) The Armed forced has abolished 2nd LT rank.

under those circumstance what do you except from police ?

It won't be long before brigadier's will start commanding battalions.!!!

what choice does J&K police has to co-ordinate with Army. once A SP who looks at 2000 men only has badge of a Lt Col. who merely take care of 125 men?



Regards
Sunil kumar singh