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Thursday, August 14, 2008

UPDATED - See it here first, 6th Pay Commission modified report as approved by the Cabinet is out :

IMPLEMENTATION OF THE SIXTH PAY COMMISSION REPORT FOR DEFENCE PERSONNEL.
The revised report as recommended by the Anomalies committee and as approved by the Union Cabinet is out.

What it means for the military is this:

1. As reported months earlier on this blog, Colonels and Brigadiers are now to be shifted to Pay Band-4. But status wise this does not mean much for the forces since the equivalent (and lower) civil posts have also been shifted to Pay Band-4. To take an example, the post of Superintending Engineer (SE) in the Central Engineering Services, which is equivalent to a Lt Col, has also been granted Pay Band-4 as has been granted to a Full Colonel. Interestingly, the modified report with much fanfare announces that Colonels and Brigs have been shifted to PB-4 of Rs 39200-67000. But if we go on and read the fine print, we find that civilians of equivalent and lower grades have also been placed in the same grade. As described above, an SE of the Central Engineering Services or a Director Govt of India who were in the 5th CPC pay grade of Rs 14,300-18,300 have been put in PB-4 (Rs 39,200-67,000) while a Lt Col who was receiving more pay and was in a higher 5th CPC pay grade of Rs 15,100-18,700 has been placed behind them to languish in PB-3 (Rs 15,600-39,100). Same is the case with Addl Commissioners of Income Tax, Addl Commissioners of Central Excise and Scientists 'E', all of whom were drawing a lesser pay than a Lt Col - and all of whom have now been placed in PB-4 thereby not only bypassing our Lt Colonels in pay but also in status. Hence, service personnel need not be very happy by the illusory upliftment of the grades of Colonels and Brigadiers as far as status is concerned since the same has been applied to civilians too – nothing special has been done for the Army in this case. Of course, monetarily speaking, the figures are not bad since MSP of Rs 6000 and the respective grade pays would be added up into the pay of officers, it is only the status equation which has been disturbed. There are also indications that PB-4 is going to be rehashed and the starting figure (Rs 39,200) may be decreased by about Rs 2000.

(Note : I’ve received some emails / comments stating that there is no information of upward shift of Civil officers such as SEs and Directors Govt of India in the erstwhile scale of Rs 14,300-18,300 into PB-4, some have also said that in the press release by PTI, no such information is mentioned and that this may only be a rumour. However anybody who may have doubts about this is welcome to now browse the official Cabinet Release by the Press Information Bureau which is available here and which has confirmed the above statement of mine. Read Serial Numbers 6 and 10 of the official release, and all doubts would be laid to rest. This blog does NOT promote rumours)

2. MSP for PBOR doubled to Rs 2000/-.

3. Lt Generals overlooked for appointment as Army Commanders (GOsC-in-C) due to lack of residual service would now be granted the Army Commander’s Grade of Rs 80,000/- (fixed) that is also granted to Secretary to Govt of India. MSP of Rs 6000 to be taken into account notionally w.e.f 1-1-2006 while fixing the new pay of Maj Generals and Lt Generals. What is not highlighted is the fact that Directors General of Central Police Organizations who feature on Article 25 of Warrant of Precedence (WoP) have also been granted a scale of Rs 80000 which is more than the one granted to our Lt Generals who feature on Article 24 which is higher than Ds G CPOs. Directors General of State Police and Principal Chief Conservators of Forests also granted a higher scale of Rs 80000. Needless to say, both of these posts, i.e., DGP and PCCF do not feature at all in the WoP.

4. Lower limit of Disability Pension raised to Rs 3100. War-Injury pension to be 60% of emoluments.

5. SF Allowance for Army/IAF to be equivalent to Marine Commando Allowance of Navy.

6. Assured Career Progression Scales in 8, 16 and 24 years for PBOR as opposed to 10,20 and 30 years on the civil side.

7. No change in retirement age.


8. Revised scales effective from 1-1-2006 while allowances effective from 1-9-2008.


9. Arrears to be paid in two installments, the first (40% of arrears) this year and the second (60%) in the next financial year.


10. Annual increment to be 3%


11. Increase in Transport Allowance for all.


No information is yet available on Grade Pays. Grade Pay recommendations would be very vital since it is now the only determinant of status vis-à-vis civil services.


The blog would be updated as and when more details trickle in.
Also see the following earlier posts on the Pay Commission Report on this blog:-

44 comments:

Sunt said...

The most clear comment on today's news was heard yesterday at a meeting - from a retired soldier: "Let us reject today, what Manmohan will say tomorrow"

ashwini said...

1. It wont be incorrect to say that dont expect your status will be upgraded...
2. they will simply move everyone up the ladder. so the status quo will be maintained...as per original 6th pay report...
3. all those who have studied human resource management will appreciate that only by improving extrinsic factors like pay u cant motivate people..intrinsic factors like your social standing...acceptance of your work by the society as a respectable job and giving it a right status is even more important...which is missing here...unfortunately soldiers are most disappointed when they go to civil administration for any kind of personal work...like registrastion of car land..loans etc....the amount of harrasement they face is unbearable..along with their limited leave availability...
4...WITH THE IZZAT PART MISSING DUE TO CONTINOUS DEGRADATION IN STATUS..WILL ARMED FORCES BECOME AN ATTRACTIVE PROFESSION STILL REMAINS A QUESTION..
5..EVERY WHERE THEY R SAYING THAT MIDDLE RANK OFFICERS LIKE COLONELS AND BRIGADIERS HAVE BEEN PLACED IN HIGHER SCALES...I DONT KNOW SINCE WHEN THEY BECAME MIDDLE RANK OFFICERS...MAY WE R PLANNING TO START ARMY RANKS FROM LT COL ONWARDS IN 6TH PAY COMMISSION...
6..LET US SEE HOW MUCH SOLID SUBSTANCE IS THERE IN THE REPORT..OR IT IS JUST A SUGAR COATED PILL...
7..WISH U ALL THE SOLDIERS A VERY BEST OF LUCK...

Anonymous said...

Because they can not represent our case in a befitting manner, our Nin-cum-Poop Generals deserve to be lowered in status by these Babus. They have been fooled and cheated us all again.

Pragmatic said...

Navdeep:

There are many issues at play here. After all this, we will see an effort from the services top brass to direct the ire towards the bureaucrats and politicians.

The problems lie with the complete system -- from recruiting to promotions to exit -- and the organisational culture and institutional value systems. These are the facts we need to acknowledge and resolve.

Things in services can not be set right by the SCPC. In fact, we can not hope to get the best out of the SCPC or from anything else with the present system.

Anonymous said...

Where it is mentioned that 14300-18300 Scale in moved from PB 3 to PB4? There is no such information yet available anywhere?

Navdeep/Maj Navdeep Singh/Capt Navdeep Singh said...

Dear Anonymous,

Pl go through the official press release which is now available on the PIB website. You would get your answer. This blog does NOT promote rumours.

Alchemist....elixir of life said...

Gr8 input on 6th pay, it's gives a clear insight as to what is in
store for us, in near future.
It also clearly says, buddy life begins in army after full col.... so
why to continue, if one knows if he is not able to make it in 16-17yrs
of hard work(specially if ur boss does'nt like ur face or u have'nt
cleared DSSC!!) ..JUST FOR PEANUTS..... as someone very rightly said u
will gets monkeys if u throw peanuts and its allready happening, as
one can see in our prestigious academies like NDA/IMA..... I am told
by one of my coursemate (who is a instr in IMA) that they have to
conduct special classes for the cadets, so as to bring them up to the
required standards, in terms of soft skills in Army..... nextly for a
basic intake of 350 cadets in IMA, only 88 have joined..... were r we
leading to..... it's leads to two basic thoughts, firstly, how much
can ones motivation and dedication to serve motherland can lead
to....HOW FAR. Nextly if u think ur own goals in life r higher than
organisations and naton plus if u think u r BRIGHT enough..... boss
the best option, if u succeed in the 'DIFFICULT MISSION' CHUCK THE
ARMY JOB!!

Maj ESSVEE said...

It does gave a tinker that we as senior majors after 12 yrs have fought battles , ran behind militants, did flood relief,carried out IS duties when things went out of civ adm hands,carried out staff duties in a bde/div and are young lower level offrs and on the contrary, offrs of civ staff maybe 3 yrs senior to us are rubbing shoulders with generals as seniors in their field. i don't know where are we heading. My status ain't thr, u realise it when a SHO ignores you in J&K, an SP makes a CO waits outside his office for an hour in valley....whom are we fooling....we have left an oppertunity to fulfill desires of our Generals or rather future Governors. My only request please relieve us from this KARAM ..... open VRS.

V K Das said...

While determining the pay scales for colonels and brigadiers add grade pay and MSP to get the correct picture. Let us not rush with our comments.

Anonymous said...

Where are the pay scales available ?

Anonymous said...

1)A Web Site was Launched last Night for 6 CPC exclusively its address is http://paycom.cjb.net.

2) In the Officially released report from PTI, NO-WHERE the details given in your post's Para 1 are mentioned. It would be very nice of you not to spread Rumours for the sake some more hits on your blog. By the way one can download the Officially release report from the above mentioned web site, however the details are still to come, nothing is clear Please do not jump to conclusions whether you are serving or retired

Anonymous said...

I think its time for Majs & Lt cols to seek PMR and prove their worth outside. Let the cols, Brigs and Gens run this army.

Navdeep/Maj Navdeep Singh/Capt Navdeep Singh said...

This is for Mr/Ms Anonymous.
If you want to discuss a serious issue, please leave your email and correct name. Otherwise here is what I have to say to your comments :-

I’ve received some emails / comments stating that there is no information of upward shift of Civil officers such as SEs and Directors Govt of India in the erstwhile scale of Rs 14,300-18,300 into PB-4, some have also said that in the press release by PTI, no such information is mentioned and that this may only be a rumour. However anybody who may have doubts about this is welcome to now browse the official Cabinet Release by the Press Information Bureau which is available on this blog (see original post) and which has confirmed the above statement of mine. Read Serial Numbers 6 and 10 of the official release, and all doubts would be laid to rest. This blog does NOT promote rumours

disappointed said...

What has been offered to the middle management in the Army..the Majors and Lt colonels?? They constitute the real work force of the officer cadre.. they are the main artery..and sadly they have been ignored..the top brass seems to have taken care of itself..the veterans are speaking out for themselves..the junior/entry level officers have been given more pay to make joining the forces more lucrative..sadly everybody has ignored the majors and lt colonels..Its pathetic..We will surely see more PMR applications..not because the middle management officers have not been given their due..but because they have been ignored and mistreated and forgotten yet again like every other area...and they will again, feel let down.

Anonymous said...

The SPC has left out Lt Cols who should have been placed in PB4 status. Its degradation and demotivating the middle management level of Armed forces. An SE civil equivqlemt of Lt Col in the Army has been placed in PB4. This is unjust for the Lt Cols who should also be placed in PB4.

COL XYZ said...

The bulk pay in PB4 exchequre to the govt should have been equally distributed for the pay and allowances of PB1,PB2 and PB3 to get more satisfied and motivation of working force at lower and middle level rather than making top heavy.

Anonymous said...

Please tell me when Majors and Lt Cols will be placed in PB4. At what length of their service will they step up from PB3 to PB4.Is there any time laid or its only promotion based??? In case there is no such provision given in SPC then the Lt Cols of Army are at great loss compared to their civil counter parts and is a very demotivating for the forces.

Anonymous said...

DEAR DEFENCE PERSONENEL

A CALCULATOR FOR PAY FIXATION AND ARREAR CALCULATION IS CURRENTLY IN CIRCULATION.
THERE IS A PROBLEM IN GENERATION OF NET ARREARS PAYABLE.

SINCE MILITARY SERVICE PAY HAS TO BE ACTUALLY PAID FROM SEPTEMBER 2008, NO ARREARS ON ACCOUNT OF THIS ARE TO BE PAID FROM 1.1.2006.
HENCE THE AMOUNT OF MSP AND DA THEREON HAS TO BE DEDUCTED FROM THE TOTAL ARREARS PAYABLE FROM 1.1.2006 TO 31.8.2008.

THEREFORE, THE NET ARREAR PAYABLE MAY BE CONSIDERED AS:

NET ARREAR PAYABLE= TOTAL ARREAR-(MSP FOR 32 MONTHS+ DATHEREON)

A REVISED CALCULATOR WILL BE UPLOADED AS AND WHEN FULL PARTICULARS OF RECOMMENDATIONS ARE OUT.
INFORMATION THEREOF WILL POSTED IN THIS BLOG. HENCE THE CALCULATOR ALREADY IN CIRCULATION MAY NOT BE USED AT ALL.

FURTHER, THE FIGURES GENERATED BY CALCULATORS SHOULD NOT BE TREATED AS FINAL AND MAY DIFFER FROM ACTUAL ENTITLEMENTS IN INDIVIDUAL CASES AND HENCE SHOULD IN NO WAY BE USED AS CALCULATION OF FINAL ARREARS

THANKS
RAJ

Lt COL EEZZ said...

An an SE of the Central Engineering Services or a Director Govt of India who were in the 5th CPC pay grade of Rs 14,300-18,300 have been put in PB-4 (Rs 39,200-67,000) while a Lt Col who was receiving more pay and was in a higher 5th CPC pay grade of Rs 15,100-18,700 has been placed behind them. This is degradation of status of Lt Cols and thus to have the same status the Lt Cols of Armed forces should also be placed in PB4.

Anonymous said...

How can a Lt Col , who is promoted automatically time scale after 13 yr of service( physical service will be less for engrs , as anti date seniority)can imagine to be senior/ equal with S.E / Director , who are in JAG grade and already faced 3 DPC duly ratified by the UPSC. MOreover the UPSC selected officer have to wait for min 2 to 3 yrs after their passing out. Whereas in Army U get anti date seniority. Yes Off course Lt Col could have thought of parity with SE's/ director if as per 5th CPC they were to continue to face promotion board as well as vacancy limitations, whereas this is not the case now. Armed forces services are very respectable job and as such dignity shall be maintained . It is not gun power which shall be wielded every time in a democratic country. The Warrant of precedence of 1937 is quoted , pl go little more deep in to history and say that as per LAGAN picture a Captain was shown eq to a Maharaja , Can that be a case now. It ins Indian Govt and not the legacy of Britishers any more now.

Anonymous said...

The fact remains in the present which is to say that SPC has not placed Lt Cols in PB4. The civilian counter part of the same pay scales in 5th PC as of Lt Cols have been placed in PB4, Once again the Lt Cols have been left out.They should be placed in PB4 as soon as possible and SPC should reconsider this.

Anonymous said...

I see alot of controversy on SE Vs Lt Col. In right spirit the fraternity should be talking about generalists and not about engineers to draw a real parellel. I fail to understand why nobody has spoken about Directors/ Conservators of forests/Addl commissioners of Income tax etc. Secondly the blogger's have been misrepresenting the scales by including rank pay in the payscales. It is an established rule position that rank pay is not an integral part of pay scale and as per extent orders does not count towards equivalence.

Moreover the Lt Col scale is no more a selection post after AVSC I and rightly placed at JAG grade i.e. 12000-16500. Colonels are similarly deservingly and rightly placed in PB-4 alongwith JAG(SG)level officers i.e. scale applicable to Directors 14300-18500.

Anonymous said...

http://budhhi.com/talk/defence-calculator.php

Anonymous said...

I think some of our Lt Cols are responsible for the down gradation. They call themselves equal to SE, but are very happy to work under them as Garrison Engineer, whereas the SEs are posted as CWE. May be, our thinking is wrong.

Anonymous said...

WAKE UP INDIA – YOUR NATION YOUR MOTHER IS CALLING
Probably people in the Armed Forces have NOT realized that we are the residents of an UNGRATEFUL NATION where everyone is SELF SERVING ! In order to understand the current state of affairs let us get some facts right !
Our history is replete with the fact that at every stage AN INDIAN HAS SOLD INDIA FOR HIS PERSONAL GAINS and we INDIANS have lived eternally as SLAVES !
Having lived eternally under KINGS and then UNDER FOREIGN RULERS, be it ALEXANDER, CHANGEZ KHAN, MUGALS, PORTUGESE OR THE BRITISHERS, we Indians have sold our souls (and we call ourselves spiritually enlightened ??? Even the so called Babas are fooling the masses) as a result of which we want to usurp power in what ever way we can, be it becoming the 'chamchas' of the rich or powerful or by misusing whatever power is given to us !!! Yeh humari Asliyat hai ! The British ruled us and they used the Policy of “Divide and Rule”, since they were foreigners and had to subjugate the residents and Natives of this vast land somehow or the others !!! They created the INDIAN CIVIL SERVICES the fore runners of the INDIAN ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICE with a view to get to the pulse of the locals by USING the foolish Selfish Serving Indians and imagine INDIANS took pride in becoming ICS Officers ??? Can you imagine ??? And once they left the legacy of the ICS was inherited by the IAS !!! They may have inherited the ethos from the British, but probably what they forgot was the fact the people they were now dealing with WERE THEIR OWN COUNTRYMEN AND AS SUCH INDIA HAD BECOME A FREE DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY AND THUS THE CONCEPT OF GOVERNANCE HAD CHANGED TO “SWARAJ” which meant that the Power was in the hands of the PEOPLE, the Masses and not the NETAS or the BABUS – The concept of RULE had to be replaced by the Concept of SERVE !!! The Netas and Babus ARE THE SERVANTS OF THE PEOPLE AND AS SUCH ARE ANSWERABLE TO THEM AND NOT THEIR RULERS !!! And imagine In a Demcratic Country like INDIA the Chief Justice has the cheek to say that HE IS NOT A PUBLIC SERVANT BUT A CONSTITUTIONAL APPOINTMENT ????? How incredible !!!! IT CAN HAPPEN ONLY IN INDIA !!! AND YOU KNOW WHY ? ITS IS BECAUSE THE MASSES HAVE BEEN DELIBERATELY KEPT ILLITRATE AND HUNGRY SO THAT THEY CAN BE USED AS VOTE BANKS FOR SELF SERVICE AS AND WHEN REQUIRED !!! so far as the IAS lobby is concerned, it has learnt the art of pleasing the Netas and deriving Power out of them – for they couldn’t careless – so what If the Americans or the Chinese take over INDIA tomorrow (believe me the writing is on the wall – if we don’t wake up to ground realities and pull up our socks – at best its another 20 years and we will be under the Americans or the Chinese – either taken over Economically by the Americans or split, broken piecemeal by the Chinese and taken over – see the way the Chinese have engulfed us right from their presence in Sindh (Pakistan) in the West to Aksai Chin, Korakaram Highway, Tibet, Mao Government in NEPAL, Mao Rebels running a Parallel Government in Jharkhand, Chattisgarh, West Bengal, Orissa down till Andhra Pradesh (all these provinces grossly neglected by them by misrule and efficient Governance and they call themselves Administrators par excellence?), across Sikkim, Arunachal Pradesh, in Mayanmar right down to its base in Coco Islands ??? And the Military Power they have built up over the years !) But how does it matter to the BABUs they will still remain IAS (Indo American Services) or ICS (Indo Chinese Services) ! And see the beauty of it all – when they by they inefficiency create a situation when things go out of hand and locals revolt, these BABUs and their cousins in the POLICE Services just raise their hands and when everything is lost and Burning – they run to the same ARMY whose Officers are not as elite as them, who don’t go through Selection Boards at the cutting edge ranks of Capt, Maj and Lt Cols – It is these officers who with their professional competence and efficiency and clock like planning and precision in execution bails them out time and again and as SOLDIERS DO - JUST QUITELY FADE AWAY ! But than does this give the NETAS and the BABUS the right to take them for granted ??? Remember it is a myth that a COUP is impossible in INDIA – Remember for ANY ARMY IN THIS WORLD IT IS THE EASIEST THING TO DO – BEFORE ANYONE REALIZES THE COUP WILL BE EXECUTED AS HAS BEEN SHOWN IN HISTORY TIME AND AGAIN ALLOVER THE WORLD !!! THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BEING – IN INDIA NEITHER ARE THE GENERALS COMPETENT ENOUGH TO DO IT AND EVEN IF THEY CAN, THEY WILL NOT DO IT FOR THE SIMPLE REASON – THE INDIAN ARMED FORCES CAN EITHER RULE THE NATION OR THEY CAN DEFEND THE NATION AND CERTAINLY WITH THE LEVEL IF INTEGRITY AND MORALITY THAT WE INDIANS HAVE - ITS NOT WORTH IT – MOREOVER SOLDIERS IN INDIAN ARMY DO NOT HARBOUR ANY SUCH ASPIRATIONS ! BUT THEN IF THE INDIAN SOLDIER IS BEING GOOD AND PATRIOTIC, IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT HE IS WEAK ! BEWARE --- DON’T MESS WITH INDIA AND DON’T MESS WITH THE ARMED FORCES !!! IF SOMEONE THINKS THAT GEN PRAVEZ MUSARRAF RESIGNED AS THE PRESIDENT OF PAKISTAN BECAUSE THE CIVILIAN COALATION PRESSURISED HIM --- FORGET IT !!! HIS LAST SPEECH AND GESTURES SAID IT ALL !!! HE WAS A SOLDIER FIRST AND THE PROSPERITY OF HIS OWN COUNTRYMEN WAS HIS TOP PRIORITY --- HE RESIGNED BECAUSE HE COULD SEE EITHER INNOCENT BLOOD SPILLING, IF HE CALLED THE ARMY AND FURTHER HE DID NOT WANT TO INVOLVE THE ARMY IN THE DAY TO DAY RUNNING OF THE NATION BECAUSE OF ITS COMMITMENTS IN FIGHTING INTERNAL CONFLICT IN NWFP AND OTHER PROVINCES OF THE NATION !!! THIS IS THE REASON WHY THE INDIAN ARMY WILL ALSO NEVER STEP IN TO RULE THE NATION !!! BUT THE FACT STILL REMAINS – WHETHER ANYONE LIKES IT OR NOT – INDIA AS IT STANDS WITH ITS BOUNDARIES TODAY – IS BECAUSE OF THE ARMED FORCES OF THE NATION AND FOR NO ONE ELSE !!! THE INDIAN SOLDIER IS THE ONLY INSTITUTION THAT STILL PLACES NATION ABOVE SELF !
The Officer fraternity of the Armed Forces is feeling cheated, because at some stage of their lives when they are being trained to become officers at the Military Academies, they are brain washed to live by the Chetwodian Motto, "THE SAFETY, HONOUR AND WELFARE OF MY COUNTRY COMES FIRST; THE HONOUR, WELFARE AND SAFETY OF THE MEN I COMMAND COMES NEXT; MY OWN EASE, COMFORT AND SAFETY COMES LAST, ALWAYS AND EVERY TIME !" And it is on this creed that an Army Officer is trained, groomed and brought up ! But then as he graduates in life and goes to DSSC and a posting to Delhi and gets in touch with the TRAITORS OF THE NATION - THE BABUS AND THEIR POLITICAL MASTERS, do they realize that THE ARMYMEN ARE BEING USED AND TAKEN FOR A RIDE BY THIS SELF SERVING SELFISH CLASS OF TRAITORS WHO HAPPEN TO BE AT THE HELM OF AFFAIRS - THE BABUs BEING CLERKS TO THE NETAS DRAW THEIR POWER FROM THEM AND IMAGINE THE PLIGHT OF THIS NATION - CLERKS CALL THE SHOTS !!! CAN YOU IMAGINE !
Now when the said Army officers come in regular contact with the Babus and the Netas, they understand the game plan and imbibe the same characteristics from them - After all Khoon tuo Hum Sab Ka ek hi hai and that is HOW the ARMY is sold BY THE GENERALS FOR THEIR SELFISH BENEFITS ! But then they too have got it now – Lt Gens status viz-a-viz the DGs of PMFs has been belittled !!! Imagine a CORPS COMMANDER Being given an order of precedence below the DG of a PMF who does NOT even lead his force in any action – he is only an Administrative Head ???? He does not even evolve the Operational Policies or Plans of the force ??? What a paradox !!! What emerges clearly from the Recommendations and Acceptance of the SIXTH PAY COMMISSION is that THERE IS A CLEARCUT CASE OF A TRAITOR AT WORK TO WEAKEN AND SABOTAGE THE ONLY STRONG INSTITUTION HOLDING THIS COUNTRY TOGETHER AND THAT IS THE INDIAN ARMED FORCES !!! FOR GURU GOBIND SINGH JI ONCE SAID, “A NATION/SOCIETY THAT CANNOT HONOUR ITS SOLDIERS PERISHES !” And that is exactly what is going to happen, if course corrections are not made immediately – mid rug officers ie Majs and Lt Cols who form the CUTTING EDGE of the Armed Forces WILL look for greener pastures and quit or they will get disgruntled and become liabilities on the organization and ONLY MONKEYS WILL COME TO THE ARMY ! A deliberate plot to weaken and destroy the fiber of the NATIONAL ARMY can only be the work of a TRAITOR and no one else. THE GOVERNMENT ie THE NETAS MUST REALIZE THAT FOR THE NATION THEY HAVE TO STEP APART FROM THE BABUs AND THINK !!! INDIA ALSO NEEDS TO THINK – IN THE TIMES TO COME AND WITH THE ADVANCEMENT IN ALL FIELDS – DO WE NEED THE INDIAN ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES AT ALL AT THE FIRST PLACE ????? CAN WE NOT REPLACE THEM WITH TECHNOCRATS IN THEIR RESPECTIVE MINISTRIES ?????
Imagine the plight of our Poor BHARATMATA, the unscrupulous Netas and Babus who are supposed to SERVE HER get involved in all sorts of nefarious activities to sustain themselves AND TRY TO RULE HER ! An in-depth study of all the Insurgencies, Civil Disobedience Movements, Separatist and Extremist Activities leads you to one simple analytical outcome and that is Indian masses have been neglected, ill treated, denied their basic rights and dignity of living a peaceful fulfilling life in terms of denying them proper education, rampant corruption, a defunct Public Distribution System, a defunct and inefficient Police org which does not even know how to behave with its native citizens and cannot ensure fair and intelligent investigations and enforce law properly – it is heavily loaded in favour of the rich, famous and powerful, a defunct judiciary with no one to listen to, no jobs, no means to earn a respectful livelihood !!! Imagine our’s is a nation where those who are fortunate to get educated look at the poor masses and comment that THE POPULATION OF INDIA IS AN ASSET !!! WHY ?? BECAUSE THE POOR, WEAK AND UNEDUCATED CAN BE EXPLOITED TO WORK AT LOWER WAGES !!! This is what we are !!! So what does a poor man who has just finished his education, but cannot get a proper job do ??? Obviously, the easiest way out – take gun in his hand and become a hero and have an access to easy money !!! And then what next – when he starts a separatist or insurgent movement and the situation goes out of hand the Netas, Civil Administration and Police raise their hands and ARMY is called in to sort out the poor chap !!!! What INDIA needs to do is to evolve a POLICY that wherever such a situation occurs – the entire civil machinery should be suspended, their pay stopped and they should all be placed under the ARMY – so that they too can be sorted out !!! In fact they can be sorted out first !!! ARMY needs to assume the role of the VIGILANTE in this nation !!!! The sooner the better !!!
There are time when on interacting with the civilians in peace stations when the Armymen try to motivate the locals in being self disciplined and being Patriotic towards the nation the general answer that one used to get is “Yeh Fauj mein chalta hoga – yeh Civil mein nahie chalta” ! One was forced to think AFTER ALL WHAT IS FAUL AND WHAT IS CIVIL ????? The answer that one could conclude was that CIVIL is a word that is an offshoot of CIVILIZED and to be CIVILIZED one has to be Self Disciplined and Cultured with high standards of Morality and Integrity ! When we look at our society our Netas and Babus today the thought that haunts is ARE WE CIVILIZED ??? IF WE ARE NOT CIVILIZED THEN DO WE DESERVE DEMOCRACY AND HAVE WE BEEN PUT THROUGH THE PROCESS OF DEMOCRTIZATION ????? SO AT THEW FIRST PLACE WHERE IS THE QUESTION OF “SUPREMACY OF THE CIVIL OVER THE ARMED FORCES” ? The way our Parliamentarians behave in the Parliament does it show any signs of being civilized ??? The way our Netas cause destruction to National Property during Bandhs – Are we civilized ????? The High headed way in which our BABUs Behave – Are we civilized ????? If this is concept of Civil in INDIA then to be true the ARMED FORCES ARE THE ONLY CIVILIZED INSTITUTION IN THIS NATION – REST IS A UNRULY JUNGLE WHERE ONLY THE FITTEST CAN SURVIVE AND THUS EVERYONE WITH POWER OR EVEN A BIT OF BRAINS IS OUT TO FOOL THE OTHERS !!!
“INDIA SHINING” is a slogan being followed by all and sundry !!! “INDIA A SUPER POWER IN THE MAKING” is being heavily touted ! We need to introspect – Are we Morally Sound ??? Do we have Integrity ??? Do we have Character and do we follow scrupulous Work Ethics ??? Are our family bases strong ??? Is our infrastructure strong ??? Are we Economically Strong ??? Are we self sufficient in all fields ??? Is our Education base strong ??? Are we strong Militarily ie to say do we have the R&D and indigenous Defence Production and sustainability capability ??? Are our alliances with other nations strong ??? And above all Are we United as a Nation ????? Pragmatic answers to my aforementioned questions will show where we truly stand.
So my dear Brothers - in – arms, remember “YAHAN SAARE HI BHOOKHE HAIN” KISI KA KOI ZAMEER NAHIE HAI – KOI KISI KA NAHIE HAI – JISKE HAATH MEIN CHABI HAI WOH HI CHALATA HAI !!! The very fact that the Government ordered a group of SECRETARIES (BABUs) to review the Recommendations of the Sixth Pay Commission without reps from the Defence Services – one should have understood that – its going to be an eyewash and that it is !!! In this country unless you Fight for your Rights No one gives it to you !!! Moreover which Chief has ever Resigned for his MEN or Boys ??? We have No Mc Arthurs here !!! JAHAN FIELD MARSHAL SAM MAINIKSHAW JAISE KO LOG RESPECT NAHIE DE SAAKE – WAHAN AAP KYA EXPECT KAR RAHE HO ??? IMAGINE THE BABUs WERE LOOKING FOR PROTOCOL FOR A FIELD MARSHAL ??? UNKE BAAP DAADOON KO BHI NAHIE PATA HOGA KE FIELD MARSHAL KYA HOTA HAI – USKE WAQT KE BABUOON SE POOCHO WHO BATAYENGE !!! INDIRA GANDHI SE POOCHO WHO BATAYEGI !!! THERE WAS NO REASON WHY THE SUPREME COMMANDER SHOULD NOT HAVE GONE FOR THE FUNERAL OR WHY THE PM AND THE ENTIRE CABINET OF MINISTERS AS WELL AS THE CHIEF JUSTICE OF INDIA AND THE THREE SERVICE CHIEFS SHOULD NOT HAVE LINED UP TO BID FAREWELL TO INDIAs ONLY LIVING LEGEND WHO GAVE A REASON TO REJOICE TO THIS NATION !!! IT IS SHAMEFUL !!! PAR YAHAN TUO SABHI BESHARAM HAIN !!!
IF YOU CONSIDER YOURSELVES TO BE TRUE INDIANS TRY TO ANALYSE WHAT I HAVE SAID !!! I LOVE MY MOTHERLAND AND I LOVE ITS CITIZENS AND SOLDIERS !!!! PHIR BHI “HUM JIYE HAIN AUR MARENGE AAI WATAN TERE LIYE – DIL DIYA HAI JAAN BE DENGE AAI WATAN TERE LIYE” !!!
MAY GOD BE WITH YOU AND MAY GOD BLESS THE INDIAN SOLDIER !! PRAY THAT GOOD SENCE PREVAILS IN THE HEADS OF THE SELFISH NARROWMINDED NETAS AND THEIR BABUs !!!
GOD BLESS & JAI HIND ! JAI HIND KI SENA !

Col-30 said...

I appreciate your concern and thank U for the enlightening thoughts. Another aspect I wish to brong to the notice of all is that the rank of Lt Col was a Selection rank earlier. Now it is a time scale Promotion. Therefore we should not be so much demanding. But as for retd Lt Cols their pension should be adjusted where the present Colonels are placed in the pay fixation. To this end we must fight for our rights. I request all the retd army offrs and their colleagues of all the ex-servicemen organizations and the League to take up the matter at the highest level and refuse to accept the SPC recommendations till all the anomalies are removed and status of case of LT COLs is restored as per 5th Pay com terms. This is degradation of the status of Lt Cols and thus we demand to restore status of Army ranks equivalent to civil designations. Therefore Lt Cols of Armed forces should also be placed in PB4 along with SEs and Directors of G O I to avoid addition of salt to the injuries inflicted by the 6th CPC.

Anonymous said...

To make the Armed Forces an attractive profession so that it could get right kind of people, the Govt should revise the pay scales more upwardly. A Wing Commander should be placed in PB-4.

Praveen said...

Lt Col should not be degraded and need to be placed in PB-4

Anshuman Gupta said...

I am a civilian SE and do agree with most of the posts on this blog about upgrading pay scale of Lt Col into PB-4. They DESERVE it & Govt should not delay to grant it. They are the saviors of our nation.

Anonymous said...

This pay commission is a bullshit, it benefited only officers and brought the poor to poorer condition.Why is the partiality in the military service pay, an officer with 6,000/- and a jawan with only 2000/-, while the pay is raised drastically from 8000/- to 24000/- pm, and for a jawan from 3200/- to 7000/-pm, does the life of jawan is easier than the officers.In high altitudes jawans suffer more than than the officers, officers avail every privileges in the Army during the field firing and exercises officers enjoy their picnic while the jawans not even get good shelter and good food these Army officers have cooler,TVs and enjoy their party in their tents. Every one knows that officers enjoy most privileges like transport, salary, sahayaks, extra pay for availing civil naukars etc,etc......... then why should they are given separate MSP, there should be no separate military pay for the officers it should be common even it is only 2000/- pm. What ever happening is not right, this will surly lead to some mishap in the future.It has created a demoral in the hearts of our brave jawans.If a jawans says you get more MSP than us then why should we shed our life , better you die for the country, what would be the answer from the country, and i am dame sure that it would happen and there will be no solution to this government. Every one say that what the jawans are doing and whats the need to give them a high salary, we are here for that day when no one would be ready to send their son, father, or husband to cut their head for this nation. We are here so you watch T20, your Indian idol, or Saregamapa, we are here so you give A crore rupee to Yuvraj and make merry in christmas, Diwali, and New year.We are nothing but Bali Ka Bakaras.Army says we are lacking of 14 thousand officers while people say, what the jawans do, then what is the need to enrol so many officers just to supervice useless jawans.

Anonymous said...

well said anonymous @ 2.43 am on 21 Aug 2008. There is a talk of withdrawing MSP from Col & Brig who are shifted to PB-4 , lest their pay is fixed more than Maj Gen? Anyway cudos to you for such a patriotic epitaph. Jaihind.

Anonymous said...

In India status is always decided based on the pay scale,wheather you like it or not. Hence this anomaly between middle ranking defence and civil service officers cannot be wished away. AVC 1 was implemented inorder to eliminate the stagnation military officers face as compared to their civilian counter part. The argument that Lt Col is a time scale promotion falls flat on its face. Because unlike in civil service where 100% make it to the higher rank, in defence it is only 20% that makes it. This is no fault of the individual.Rank without pay and the associated status is nothing more than garbage. I think what we the Lt Colonels,Wing Commanders and the Commanders of the forces need to do is to stand united and fight against this injustice. As we cannot take to the strrets like the nets and babus and their chamchas we need fight with a common strategy. First step would be to refuse to accept our salary in the revised scale whenever it is offered.

Anonymous said...

Any guesses on how many Lt Cols/ Majors wish they were in the Pakistan Army.... at least their Generals have spine and balls, which is more than one can say for ours......

Gurpreet said...

so many comments for/against pay commission do we have incompetent bureaucrats reading this...the nation is paying them more for their incompetence, inefficiency, and rampant corruption that they promote, not to miss out the elite status that they are forced upon. be it a building collapse in chandigarh, boy falling in a well, floods in gujrat/bihar, j&k, and so on. IAS gets funds for disaster management barely sufficient to fill their stomachs yet they manage, commendable, also these intelligent people get hold of the situation by calling the army.... what an important decision after all. and why blame them anyway our hands are full within the organization itself. THEY ARE JEALOUS AFTER ALL WE ALL ARE INDIANS AND IT RUNS IN OUR BLOOD.
may better sense prevail army is the last thing our nation has got, to keep it intact please don't push them to point of no return.....

Anonymous said...

Frankly I dont really give a damn for the pay commission.At best it would only restore a temporary parity.Lets Face facts.Our generals are nincompoops who've just gone up by being yes men.These characters are incapable of taking a stand.Dont mistake our Chiefs present stand as pathbreaking.They have been forced to do so simply because our bureaucrats have gravely miscalculated how much they could push us.The buggers simply had no other choice.And if really do care why the hell dont they let people leave.

prasad kumar said...

Subject: FW: Pulse of the Army - from a soldier's daughter - straight from the heart !



I received this from a friend. However, I forward this mail with no comments! Please read till the end to realise how the pulse of a soldier beats!


I am Vaishnavi Prasad, daughter of Colonel K Prasad, whom you would remember from MHOW between 1991-93. I am a student of Journalism in Chennai and am closely following this issue, both on the news and through the email group Report My Signals which my father recieves regularly. You are doing a great service to the armed forces both serving and retired, in fighting the injustice meted out them by the bureaucrats and the politicians.

Here, are my personal views on the same for your reading.

Sincerely & hoping for the best,

A concerned citizen

Vaishnavi.
------------------

Who let the politicians out?

by Vaishnavi Prasad


It's very simple. A military coup, that is. One collective word is all it needs to convert this nation from a democratic country to a progressive economy with martial law.

The armed forces will take over the nation, and no one can do a thing about it. Not the police force, not Manmohan Singh(=Sonia Gandhi), not A.K. Antony. No one. A movement will arise so suddenly and with the fury of a raging tsunami, that it will rewrite India's future, inject discipline in the blood of every Indian, unscrew unopened bottles of potential and terrorise the intestines out of those who dare to oppose them or irrigate the minds of others with vile thoughts. Corruption will be eliminated 90% and progress will double. Indeed, the souls of our forefathers who fought for real freedom, will rest whole-heartily under this military control. Ironic, but true.

The question here is, why won't they do it?

Let me tell you what bothers me. I am the 19 year old daughter of a retired government servant, an army officer to be specific (note the 'Servant'.. absolutely true in case of the armed forces)

My father, who retired as a Colonel, is not a reciever of the PVSM, AVSM, VSM, or even the VC for that matter. He was a part of the army, served an ordinary Colonel's role, did not jump in front of a bullet to save his men, or plan an intelligent strategy to capture some enemy territory. He was a part of both major wars with Pakistan and China, returned without being a decorated war hero, served in regiments in both borders, saw extreme weather conditions and backward technology and most importantly, he enjoyed and took immense pride in doing all this and serving the nation.

Yet, I feel my father is a greater man than many 'greats' in this nation. Shahrukh Khan, or Pratibha Patil,to begin with:neither of them have sacrificed more than a sleepless night or compromised on their Saturday morning sleep for the nation.

I don't blame you for saying, 'Oh, she's an army officer's daughter, obviously that's why she's biased'. I don't deny it. It is true. I am biased. And I want every single person in this country, if not the world to be biased. I can only tell you what it is like to have seen these people up, close and personal, to have heard true incidents of bravery and selflessness and then know they're are being paid peanuts, to sacrifice their lives without hesitation for the nation.

When I was 16, my family took a holiday to Arunachal Pradesh, to the regiment where my father had been in command, more than 20 years ago. From a scenic , quaint little town called Tenga, on the banks of a gushing river, we travelled to a snow desert near the Chinese border called Bumla. Here, in the middle of nowhere, one could see a small board stuck in the ice reading 'Welcome to India'. For as far as our eyes could see in all four directions, there was nothing but snow. Beside that board stood a guard, probably of south Indian origin, in 6 layers of clothing, a giant wind-cheater and the heaviest pair of snow-boots imaginable, against constant rapid winds, endless lengths and immense depths of ice, pacing an abandoned minefield from the 1962 war, looking through a telescope at Chinese vantage points to track enemy positions and moves.

He didn't opt to be there, but when he chose the forces as a career he knew what he would be facing, and he faces it with valour, for he has the patriotism that you and I and many of our politicians lack. Tomorrow he may die in battle, but I know for sure, that no one who has joined the forces will ever regret taking up that profession. If he dies in an act of bravery, he will most probably be awarded a VC or PVC medal for the same, posthumously. Then the government might give his family a lump sum and/or a measly monthly stipend of Rs.850 to Rs.1500. I ask you, is that all this man's life is worth?

What about a serving soldier? He mostly hails from small areas or rural backgrounds with an uneducated wife and 2 children back in his village alone.Typical, but true. This man, who has time in the forward areas only to eat, sleep and watch the enemy, hardly sees his family. His entire salary is sent back home to his spouse, who faces the brunt of yet again uneducated parents-in-law ready to blame her for anything that happens to their son. In such a situation, a soldier's wife receiving the pitiful salary of her husband will be left an orphan in the middle of the road, simply for the lack of money.

Then, these war heroes, and martyrs are forgotten within minutes, no, wait, seconds of their death. No one forgets to come for the Republic Day parade ,or to place that wreath they didn't order on the grave of some memorial they don't know was built for what om Independence day. Just because it is protocol. Protocol to 'remember' (or forget?) these people on these 'days' meant for our nation, to 'remember' them for the 30 seconds it takes you to read patriotic forwards and messages in your in boxes on email and on your cellphone.

Like a 90-year old war veteran said, I guess it's the forces who are to be blamed. Right from the 3rd pay commission-who screwed up royally- the three forces have always put the pride of serving the nation over money. I guess it's their fault they didn't demand it then.

My father and I have been discussing this issue for a while now, and my blood boils, every single time I see our so-called Defence minister Mr.A.K.Antony defending his stupidity on a podium which he does not deserve. Have you for a minute stopped and thought about why you at home are able to enjoy your evening spent listening to your iPod, or watching a DVD on your 42-inch LCD? It is because you live in India, where the borders, threatened by invasion every second, are guarded constantly, by the watchful eyes of some 27-year old son of a mother who sits far away in a remote town, praying consciously every second for the safety of her son. If that guard decided to look away for even a minute, he would be dead, within seconds, and there would be an invasion leading to chaos everywhere. Soon, India would become a replicate Iraq, pandemonium prevailing,where you would need the permission of your invaders to even use the toilet, which under normal circumstances would be your birthright.

Sometimes it's scary, how something so simple and routine is linked to something so complex and out of hand. From all of you who saw these reports of the military's peaceful war against the government on television, some of you changed the channel since it didn't concern you, some saw the report and took it in as general knowledge, and some burnt rage over it for a few seconds. Those whose blood still boils, would be the ones who have actually some patriotism left in their blood.

Am I being too philosophical for a nineteen year old? Most of you might say yes, but I say, why not? You would too, if you saw the fire in the eyes of these people the way I do.

And what is it, with Mr.Antony's comment on discipline? I'm sorry Mr.Antony, but you politicians, who hit each other with chappals, and microphones, use unparliamentary language in the parliament, come half an hour late to a meeting, and do not know the words of the national anthem, are talking about discipline.Please, don't make me laugh.Or with the panel that is enquiring the pay commission having IAS officers in it!? Why don't we have a separate pay commission for the Military like most other countries do? Why do we have to put up with a cock-eyed system? Why does a DGP get paid almost twice as much as his equivalent in the forces? Why does the army have to replace the fire-brigade, police force and everyone else, when it is specifically mentioned that the forces are only for training during peace and attack during war. Why does the government involve the forces in flood relief , earthquake relief, tsunami relief, and more recently, rescuing of children fallen in pits? Then to put the cherry on the icing, you pay them in a pay scale adopted in 1948?

I have faced and will face a lot of criticism for my views.As some of my friends say, we do get good rations, accommodation and cheaper FMCGs and alcohol. Rations and accommodation -anyone in a decent government service gets that. Cheaper FMCGs- The least the government can do is to remove the taxes off the MRP of many products and make it available to the average soldier, who in return is willing to pay the price of his life for his nation. Cheap alcohol- yes, a bottle of rum is relatively cheaper. Why don't you spend one year of your life to replace a soldier in snowy altitudes, in nothing but a tent or in the blistering heat of the Thar with the only wind bringing sandstorms along with it or in the jungles of Nagaland with the leeches sucking your blood out and I'm sure ANY soldier you replace to give him precious time with his family will gladly give you all the rum he can ever get in his life, simply so you don't die of exhaustion and depression and actually live to tell your tale.Simply, so you can survive.

Let me remind you (non)patriotic souls, that the life of a person in the armed forces is one filled with dignity and pride, and I believe it should reflect in how much s/he is paid, for glamour and corruption rule the roost today, and that bias will take our country nowhere.

Hoping for the best to come for our brave men and women.

JAI HIND.
--
Vaishnavi Prasad
www.livetimefe.blogspot.com

Anonymous said...

what r the chances of my resignation getting through( i am a substantive major), 6 yrs of service .i belong to corps of engrs

Hari said...

Dear Navneet,
Congratulations on your yeoman's service to the Armed forces.

Could you help out in sorting out the anomalies for the Disabled War Veterans.
In 1972 Mrs Gandhi authorised Disabled War Veterans to receive:
1. Service element equivalent to full years of service of the rank irrespective of service actually rendered. This translated to 33 years service for calculation of service element.
2. The calculation of DCRG was on same basis.
3. Disability element was seperately authorised depending on disability. Later this was further simplified to 50%, 75% and 100% in these categories. This simplification did not apply to earier casualties. Thus a 60% disability now would receive 75%disabilty pay as compared to an earlier 60% disabled continuing to receive 60%.

This created another scene, namely the MOD authorised the clubbing of both to the minimum of the rank instead of the maximum sanctioned in 1972. Thus either the service element or the disability element was reduced to conform to this new ruling. PBORS and young officers suffered from 10% to 25% of their authorised pensions.

Col H N Handa
Senior Vice President
Disabled War Veterans (India)
diwave1@gmail.com

Anonymous said...

Dear Navneet,
Congratulations on your yeoman's service to the Armed forces.

Could you help out in sorting out the anomalies for the Disabled War Veterans.
In 1972 Mrs Gandhi authorised Disabled War Veterans to receive:
1. Service element equivalent to full years of service of the rank irrespective of service actually rendered. This translated to 33 years service for calculation of service element.
2. The calculation of DCRG was on same basis.
3. Disability element was seperately authorised depending on disability. Later this was further simplified to 50%, 75% and 100% in these categories. This simplification did not apply to earier casualties. Thus a 60% disability now would receive 75%disabilty pay as compared to an earlier 60% disabled continuing to receive 60%.

This created another scene, namely the MOD authorised the clubbing of both to the minimum of the rank instead of the maximum sanctioned in 1972. Thus either the service element or the disability element was reduced to conform to this new ruling. PBORS and young officers suffered from 10% to 25% of their authorised pensions.

Col H N Handa
Senior Vice President
Disabled War Veterans (India)
diwave1@gmail.com

RAJENDRA said...

The biggest sufferers are selection type Lt Cols but could not get empaneled to Col rank because of vacancy and MS br policy

Anonymous said...

Why do the Sevices have such a long Rank Structure and then remain confused about the equivalence with the civilian group 'A' services? We should also have a few ranks only like other Gp 'A' services. What stops a major general brigade cdr or a Dy GOC, working under another major general GOC Div (except the ego of course!). We can abolish the rank of a brig and promote an officer from Col to Maj Gen. If this is not possible then considering his length of service in Gp 'A' cadre, a Brig should also be equivalent to a Jt Secy to the Govt of India. I feel our General should ponder over this. They may not be benefitted themselves but they will be doing a great service to the Armed forces

Anonymous said...

If in 7th pay commission we can only ask for respect for services in terms of staus vis-a-vis our civilian counterparts....I thnk we will get a good deal.

vini kahlon said...

Any idea why AGIF has arbitrarily doubled the insurance subscription from Rs 2000 to Rs 4000 and correspondingly not increased the insurance cover from Rs 30L to Rs60L and kept it at Rs40L only.

Anonymous said...

Sir regards
I have applied for security agency with DGR but surprisingly I got a letter from DGR stating I am not EX SERVICEMAN.
Sir I am SS 71 who served for 6.5 years i.e completed five years than asked for extension and served for another 1.5 years and then left after getting my gratuity.

As per DGR "any person who has been released at his own request after completing five years service in the armed forces of the union " does not come under the defination of Exserviceman.

And as I have requested for release I will also not be treated as EX SERVICEMAN.

If this be the case I will automatically be excluded from medical facilities also.

sir Irony is Zila sainik board has given me Exservice man card, I have been issued with med entitlement card.

Sir as this is related to a large class of SS officers please guide us do we come under the definition of Ex service man or not.

Waitng for your reply

captamitaroraobc@gmail.com