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Saturday, August 23, 2008

Military Grade Pays enhanced, but for status, well it’s status quo !!

As all visitors on this blog must be knowing by now, after the 6th CPC, grade pay shall be the only determinant of inter-se status between various ranks / posts / grades. And this is where we took a beating when the status of military ranks was downgraded by atleast one step on each level below Maj Gen. Of course, besides status, the depressed scales of grade pay also have a direct bearing on total emoluments.

This was the rough post 5th CPC pay equivalence vis-à-vis the civil services based on starting pay reproduced in brackets below :

I. Junior Time Scale (8000)
II. Lieutenant (8250)
III. Captain (10000) / Senior Time Scale (10000)
IV. Junior Administrative Grade (12000)
V. Junior Administrative Grade of the IAS (12750)
VI. Major (12800)
VII. Non-Functional Selection Grade (14300)
VIII. Lt Col (15100) / Non-Functional Selection Grade of the IAS (15100)
IX. DIG (16400)
X. Colonel (17100)

(Note : Rank Pay is to be added into the erstwhile pay-scales for all intents and purposes and it forms a part of basic pay as per Para 2(b) of SAI 2/S/98)

The above equation was changed in accordance with a self created status and pay equivalence by the 6th CPC to the following (Grade Pays are in brackets) :

I. Lieutenant (5400) / Junior Time Scale (5400)
II. Captain (5700)
III. Major (6100) / Senior Time Scale (6100)
IV. Senior Time Scale of IAS (6500)
V. Lt Colonel (6600) / Junior Administrative Grade (6600)
VI. Junior Administrative Grade of the IAS (7500)
VII. Colonel (7600) / Non-Functional Selection Grade (7600)
VIII. Non-Functional Selection Grade of the IAS (8300)
IX. Brigadier (8400) / DIG (8400)

Because of the disturbance of the status equation, the Services accordingly sought enhanced Grade Pays for military ranks to the tune of 6100 for Captain, 6600 for Major, 7600 for Lt Colonel, 8300 for Colonel and 8900 for Brigadier so that the earlier equation could be restored.

The Cabinet has accordingly approved the enhancement of Grade Pays and now a Capt shall be entitled to 6100, Major 6600, Lt Col 7600, Col 8700 and a Brig 8900.

But the problem is that alongwith the enhancement of Grade Pays for military ranks, the Grade Pays of civilian grades have also been upgraded. To take an example, we had sought 7600 for a Lt Col to bring the rank atleast at par with Non-Functional Selection Grade, but now while Lt Col has been upgraded to 7600, the civil equivalent of Non-Functional Selection Grade has been pushed up to a Grade Pay of 8700 both for IAS and other services. Our Colonel has also been placed in the Grade Pay of 8700. Interestingly while the Non-Functional Selection Grade of the civil services is now in Pay Band-4 (37400-67000) with a Grade Pay of 8700, our Lt Col (who is till date drawing more salary than Non-Functional Selection Grade) is now in Pay Band -3 (15900-39100) with a Grade Pay of 7600. Another myth (even within the fauji community) is that an officer reaches the rank of Colonel in 15-18 years. This is incorrect. In the services, the time taken to reach the rank of substantive Colonel is still 20 years, rest are Acting Colonels - and we all know how many Lt Colonels make it to full Colonel. On the other hand, the time taken for all directly recruited Group A Civil Services officers to reach Non-Functional Selection Grade (that has now been equated with a Colonel) is 13 years.

Another detailed analysis would follow once the Grade Pays for Civil Grades are officially made public.

Also see this report by ‘The Tribune’


Anonymous said...

KAR CHALE HUM FIDA JANO TAN SATHIYO AB TUMHARE HAWALE WATAN SAATHIYO. This from a disgruntled superceded Lt Col who despite having been a topper in every field of life and having served successfully in every Op in last 20 years in army, who could not get through the logjam above and not being allowed PMR too is resigning his commission. Thanks too all and all the best to my brothers who would still continue to bear this humiliation.

Anonymous said...

MA , can u please post the letter which says rank pay is to be added to determine the gross basic pay for determination of equivalence. What is the govt stand on equating basic pay for determination OF SENIORITY AMONG CIVILIANS, THAT DEFINITELY BE APPLICABLE TO Army rank as well. If V th pay commission has given an edge to army ranks , why not to take the same to courts.

Anonymous said...

MAJ Navdeep , can u please post the letter which says rank pay is to be added to determine the gross basic pay for determination of equivalence. What is the govt stand on equating basic pay for determination OF SENIORITY AMONG CIVILIANS, THAT DEFINITELY BE APPLICABLE TO Army rank as well. If V th pay commission has given an edge to army ranks , why not to take the same to courts.


Dear sir,
Lt colonel pay scale is not 15100 as indicated by you but it is 13500-400-17100 ( fifth CPC).

Similarly Colonel scale is not 17100 as indicated by you but 15100-450-17350 ( fifth CPC).

Anonymous said...

Dear Rakesh, please read carefully before wasting precious space and time. He has already given detail of how to work out these given figures just above the heading of 6th pay commision.

Navdeep / Maj Navdeep Singh said...

Anonymous, I've added the authority which says that rank pay is to be added into basic and that it is a part of basic pay

Anonymous said...

The biggest myth of the sixth Central Pay Commission is the military service pay to defence officers.

It has been hyped as an additional pay over their civilian counterparts. The fact is that in every other service, officers will be at least four to six years ahead of defence officers in reaching in pay scales.

For example, a Colonel will reach pay band PB-4 after 18 to 19 years of service whereas in every other central service, officers will get into PB-4 within 12 to 14 years.

When we add the jump in pay, grade pay and increments in the next four to five years, Colenel with his MSP of Rs 6000 will be well below his civilian counterpart.

As usual the armymen have been short charged. The public has already been fed on hype of MSP.

But who cares? Who will speak for the fauji?

source:- ndtv news comments

Anonymous said...

You can't equate a Lt Col with Group A officer of Rank of Director. every one irrespective of merit become a Lt Col in 13 years, where as for becoming at a level of Director - one has to face three DPCs by UPSC every one can not get that grade unlike in army where in every one become capt, Maj Lt Col across the board.There are so many group A cadres where where officers are waiting for more than 20 years to get promotion to grade of Director. Rank Pay is not to be added for determining status- please read Govt letter on the subject matter. You are equating a capt with just 2 years of services with a group A STS- which group A officers including IAS take any where from 4-10 years. You may grant any status to any rank with in Army, but when you come you of Army into a civilized world, don't think you will get preference in every matter - Civilized world need a safaiwala , a school teacher a doctor, an engineer an IAS, a nurse, a policeman (all civilian- as you call them in army slang) equally as much as an armed force officer. Your views that forces are to be granted preference over civilian govt. servants are against the very basics of a democratic civilized (Civilian) society.

Anonymous said...

It is impossible to address the issues raised by the arned forces.
nobody can deny the fact that the babus are the ones preparing and implimenting the pay commissions.Lets face the facts of life, you all would have seen the so called commisioned officers travelling on their private vehicles(motorbike,car(M800 to indicas)which IAS/IPS or even Gp B officers you have seen the same way. harping on the equivalence in status as given in govt orders dont carry any meaning without taking concrete steps on ground. The soldiers can walk even barefoot in the eventuality of a war, but what about the peace time.Some respectable life starts when you become Colonel and above, that to mostly limited to your place of work. If you are not in a good appointment then you had it. So better improve the way we live in peace and enjoy the time in field.

Panache said...

In this blog, parity between lt col and SE has been sought. Rather it has been sought between civilian Director and Lt Col. Army officer in present scenario becomes a Lt col in 13 years without facing a single DPC or Board. All technical entry officers in corps of engrs first write engineering services exam/ civil services exam and after failing miserably look for corps of engrs. Most of these officers are from not much recognized institutions. And in sevice also they learn anything but engineering. Army officers doing design duties may be counted on fingers.If these officers were really capable, they could have cracked engineering services exam. In this regard Rawan and Mandodari dilogue from Ramayana is relevent ' Rawan was cribbing that he did not get Sita so he has taken her forcibly, but his wife Mandodari replied,' You could have broken the Dhanush and married her'
So it is worthwhile for the army officers to admit the ground reality gracefully and learn to coexist peacefully. SPC has already clarified the issue of equivalence .

Anonymous said...

Dear Ramesh,
The army is not only of Engineers,but other arms also.The point of view seems to be highly influenced by the turf war between MES offrs and army officers in the works.
However one issue to note is army is not looking for bright issac newton types like you.It wants people who can lead men in war,and army has not lowered its selection standards.So let us not get bogged down on trivial issues.
Regarding your DPC for selection to higher ranks,brother,everyone in your batch makes it to the rank of chief engineer,irrespective of his integrity/standard of competence.Sadly this is not the case with army.
So please come down from that high pedestal.One innocuous looking adverse remark in ACR is good enough to screw him for his life.
By the way I know many MES officers who could not get into army and ultimately satisfy with MES jobs/get their daughters married off to army officers.Let me assure you, you have joined a wonderful central govt service and there is nothing to feel inferior about it!

Anonymous said...

Maj Navdeep Sir,
I had a small query with regards to the SPC report. Till few days back there was some talk that the review committee had approved a hike of about 15%-20% in the pay of defence services over and above what was recommended in the original report.

What about it??

Did we get it???

Can someone please clarify this doubt of a confused soul.....

By the way - 'Well said Pops, bravo..'

Panache said...

Dear Pops,
NO body is stopping you to grow in your organisation. What I was deliberaing was equivalency vis-a-vis other civilian organisations. Question is also not of marrying daughters to army officers or vice a versa ( Your qoute refers to group C & B MES officers).The parity now brought out clearly by SPC was preexisting but was not implemented taking the shelter of ambiguity in pay scales/absence of clear ruling. Nation is maintaining such a huge army for the D day and paying them adequately for the hardships faced by them while on field duties and probably overpaying the army officers posted in peace location by way of MSP,Rations,subsidised water and electricity and other amenities.

Anonymous said...

Well, well, well... The argument that rank of Lt. Col is not by selection, and therefore should remain in PB3, is nothing if not mischievous. What selection does an equivalent IAS officer go through? C'mon, please don't mislead - unintentionally, or otherwise. This also leads us to a basic question. Why not a separate CPC for the Armed Forces? When it is prevalent in other countries, then why not in our country? A beginning has been made, rather inadvertenly, by accepting the harsh working conditions and approving MSP. A tiny step, yes, but in the right direction. At present we have members of the SPC and CoS who have no idea what the gallant jawan goes through at the LOC. They fix his MSP at 1000 and then in a magnanimous gesture, throwing caution to the winds, increase it to 2000 ! All this, by the way, by gentlemen who have only seen a battlefield in the movies (while devouring popcorn). And they keep the officers MSP static at 6000, as if that is sufficient compensation for putting one's life at risk. Can our countrymen, let alone the SPC\CoS members, ever repay the officers and jawans who have shed their blood which has made sacrosanct our beloved motherland?

Anonymous said...

The above comment has erroneously been posted as 'anonymous'. I would like to post it under my name, for I dislike that anonymous word.

Anonymous said...



Unknown said...

while everyone after 20 yrs of service r placed in PB 4, a wing cdr of 20 yrs is still struggling in PB 3. I think faujis should fight for this discrimination.If we dont do, we will treated like subordinates by the babus

Anonymous said...

dear maj
actually it is our own bosses in army who let us down and degrade us .why should ahq post ltcol in appointment tenable by deputy directors/joint directors after avsc report implementation.why AO of 1968 designate a ltcol as joint director and col as director .where were we sleeping then .it is unnecessary controversy being raised .what percent of us have to work with our civilian counterparts ?hardly any.we should concentrate on our profession where standards are falling by the day .shortage of officers is also due to negative publicity done by us .why dont we talk of free school buses to our children,easy admission in AWES run professional colleges ,free govt transport to almost all officers for pracically all personal works ,numerous guest rooms available where ever we go,free electricity which we get ,spacious houses free of rent or less rent ,single accn free etc etc .there are no comparision even between two real brothers .services have their own importance and civ services their own .it is like a body where all parts are important in their own ways .and every part derives pleasure in different things .so friends be positive .we have got enough .our miseries many of them will reduce if our own bosses become little more positive .otherwise what will explain the phenomenon of posting to place A if you wanted Place B

Anonymous said...

Abolition of the rank of 2nd leutinent has actually damaged the so much discussed equivalence. I think the degradation of one to two ranks of armed forces is due to abolishion of the 2nd Lt rank.
I am not sure whether there has been any abolishion of any rank in ias/ips cadre.
if you make everybody to get commissioned as captain and then equate him with the civil equivalent of 2nd lt in the CPC, then what do u gain?

Anonymous said...

Dear Ramesh
I can only feel sorry for your ignorance when you state “Nation is maintaining such a huge army for the D day and paying them adequately for the hardships faced by them.....” .What do you think the army has been doing in Kashmir and North East, the D day has already passed!
You have seen things from a distance or heard about issues in the mess parties. If army is provided with certain concessions as you brought out, dear friend then we are paying for it very heavily, not only with our life but also our fundamental rights!
Unlike you ,we cannot take long leave and sit at home if we do not like a posting, we cannot give a three months notice and quit, we cannot say, in Siachen the quality of education for children is poor and hence I am not going! We cannot plan to have our children taking up a entrance coaching for IIT, and of course we cannot strike work!
You said nobody is stopping us from growing in the organisation. My friend unfortunately, here in the army it not free for all as in civil services. I am not blaming the civil services for the same, though! People who have been awarded medals for gallantry have been left out for promotions. Hope you are aware of the infamous steep pyramid. So do not get agitated by what army gets or fighting to get. What an average army officer is looking for is a few good reasons,to justify to himself his decision to join the army .In that pursuit, if he wants no further degradation of status in society, do you think it is a sin?
By the way on the lighter side, when I wrote about marrying off daughters to army officers, I was mentioning about your Gp A stream only! You don’t have to be ashamed of that.

Anonymous said...

I will solve the mistry of grade pay. See 6cpc

The grade pay has been computed at the rate of 40% of the
maximum of the basic pay in each of the pre-revised pay
Where two or more pre-revised pay scales have been
merged the maximum of the highest pre-revised pay scale
has been taken and 40% thereof is given as grade pay. In
some cases, the amount of grade pay has been adjusted so as
to maintain a clear differential between successive grades

Anonymous said...

what hardship you are talking .you get compensated for everything and still wanted MSP .if you list allowances for everything you do there is an allowance and becomes payable even when you are on noncombatant duty.what for two month leave is required when you are posted to civil organisations .in lieu officers/jawan posted in difficult areas should be considered for 3 or may be 4 months.how many officers are doing BPTand PPT very few and rare.majority will fail .

Anonymous said...

The fraud of MSP has been compensated by fraud in grade pay fixation. Secondly Grade pay is new so why arrears for it whereas MSP no arrears, anybody with a logical answer?

Anonymous said...

Dear Major,
Lots of discrimination financial and status wise has been done by 6CPC for the Lt Cols of army. This needs to be resolved and justice be given to them. The 6cpc should reconsider this and give a suitably place Lt Cols at par with civil services both in pay and status

Anonymous said...

1.Linking of grade pay in armed forces with a rank has no meaning when running pay band has been implimented. Interestingly the fixation of grade pay has been done on the highest of the prerevised pay scale. example Rs.8000-275-13500 becomes Rs.15600-39100 + 5400
here 13500*0.4=5400(gradepay). Now digest this 12000-375-18000 becomes Rs.20880 + 7600(GP)
here 18000*0.4=7600. Now for a maj with (11600+1200)-325-(14850+1200)i.e. 12800-325-16050 becomes 22280+6100 here 16050*0.4=6420(grade pay) but it has been fixed at 6100 probably excluding rankpay. So now you get the catch: for 12000-375-18000 gP is 7600 and for Armed forces 12800-325-16050 GP is 6100. Certainly great minds at work.
2. Now the next catch we settled for rank pay in 5CPC so the pay scale looked like this for armed forces example(maj) (11600-325-14850)+1200(rank pay)here rank pay is stagnant so the highest pay for wich the grade pay has been fixed is 14850. I hope you all get the second catch also.

Anonymous said...

dear pops
The days of conventional war are already over. Army (as it is organised and trained) is only fit to fight a visible enemy- that is why it is ineffective for last twenty years in J & K and more than 40 years in NE where is no visible enemy and these states basically facing insurgency problem due to ethnic/ political and economic development reasons. what ever job you are performing in J &K and NE can be very well performed by para military forces with much less expenditure on all allowance that you are getting and they are not.
Don't try to play the same old record of paying with your life and sacrifice. Every job has a risk element. So many jobs have more risks than that in army (war is only once in last 40 years (1971) You try to paint a picture to public as if you are sitting on the verge of a war on an eyeball to eyeball situation all the time. You cannot make fool all the people all the time. Go an see life of a construction worker on the top of a 30 storied building, a safaiwala inside a manhole, a miner 150 meters deep inside the earth,a health worker disposing off medical waste or a engineer on a dam site or a police office controlling a mob or communal tension. Most of you will not even dare to go there leave aside doing that job. You talk of restriction on fundamental rights - you are already getting every thing you want from the govt. much more than civil services-SPC is live example. If IAS secretareis / joint secretareis and other civil servant come to know of your life style- they will rethink about what for they are slogging all the years- every thing come free of cost to you( well alomost).You are already getting much more than than civil services and para military forces if all your allowances are converted in to monetroy value -SPC has proved it with facts and figures despite of being very conversative. Why does in modern times an officer need 90 days leave in a year when he is staying in a big bunglow with his family in a peace station. We are not living in 1930s and 40s when communication was difficult.
You always cite siachin and difficult conditions at borders- para military forces are working in equally difficult situations on borders , why not MSP for them.

Everything civilian seems to be a free for all to you ( here in the army it not free for all as in civil services...)every civil servent and politician appear corrup and joker to you. Please note that we civilian are achieving 9-10 % economic growth, best in the world. I really feel pity on your mindset. come out of your coocoon , which you will have to come out on retirement any way.
And by the way your comment about civilian officers marrying off their daughters to army officers. I wish that may god help you to find groom/ bride for you children from army background only as civilian parents/ civilians boys/ girls are not upto your standards. And if your children are not willing to join army, don't look down on them , they too have a right to be different from you and be a civilian.

Anonymous said...

II takes the cake! He is a frustrated soul and talks of the 1971 war. What about Kargil, chum? FRUSTRATED should be sent to LOC for a week and all his gas will come out. If para militaty forces could do the work then why are the Armed Forces brought in when things go out of hand? FRUSTRATED declares that days of conventional war are over. Look around the world and do you see what you claim? You need help, man!x

Anonymous said...

SPC is for all of us. It makes no sense to pull the Army down. We should all unite, civilians and defence to fight for our due as compared to the private sector.

Anonymous said...

I am a Defence officers wife and feel we should not grudge against the Army. They need all our support for the hardship they go through to keep the nation secure. It is unfortunate that some do not understand what they go through.



Anonymous said...

dear ll...thanxs u have atleast rightly addressed us as POPS...somebody recognised us....

Anonymous said...

SOLDIER SALUTES THE PARA-MILITARY...dear ll...1.when riots occur u do uncontrolled firing and run away from bunkers...read crpf firing in j&k..2. in naxal areas u sacrifice ur life like sheeps..and call ur self grey hounds...3. fail to prevent demolition of babri mosque..4. involved in coal smuggling... go to mehgalaya - bangladesh border...5. all bangladeshis r in india thanx to para military forces..6. U R IN COMPETENT IN HANDLING INTERNAL SECURITY PROBLEMS THATS Y ARMY IS FIGHTING THEM SINCE LAST SO MANY YEARS ...IN J&K AND NE..IF U HAVE THE SPUNKS AT LEAST PROVE UR WOTH IN NAXAL INFESTED AREA..THEN TALK...DONT FLY WITH WINGS..U WILL CRASH  FACE DOWN

Kartik Padmanabhan said...

A whole lot of intresting posts there. What I find more intresting is the comparision of civil and defence services. Both are right in their own ways, but on the strength of logic alone I tend to appreciate (though not agree completely)with the point of view that we guys in the army do dervive a lot of benefits which are not available to civilians. Some guy here mentioned abt AWES schools/transport/90 days of lve. Here is some food for thought for such gentlemen:

1. Every palce that has an AWES funded school has Military personal numbering 5000 at the very least. In most places there would be thrice as many as that. But how many IAS fellas in that same place ? 2 at most. Allied services? ADD 5-6 more. The simple reason that it cannot be replicated by other services is becos you do not have the economies of scale. Pls also remember that these schools are largely self funded after being set up. You guys are welcome to set up ur own schools if u wish. Come to think of it. Why have u not done it already??Speaking of Colleges, yes we do enjoy an advantage but why dont you set up ur own colleges like the numerous group housing societies that u keep floating and acquring concessional land for?

2. Did somebody say that we dont need 90 days of lve in these days of incr comn? Be informed then: every govt servent has a 5 days working week. The entire Army (less AHQ) has a 7 day working week.Yes even in peace stns!!You gentlemen get 104 days off a year just on acct of Saturdays and Sundays. We have been provided only 80 out of those 104. Do you still say that 80 days is too much.Then pls let us exchange places!!
3.If you do not get a house when you are posted to any place what do u do? Hire one and claim HRA( you may still be paying money from ur pocket but at least you have that option). In the case of armed forces, in many places not only do you NOT have accn available , you also not allowed to live outside the cantt.
3. Wards of Army personnal live without one parent for something like 50 percent of their formative years.Can any amt of MSP make up for that?

4. To put everybody's mind at rest we must monetise every facility that we get.So lets go ahead and monetise CSD/ LTC / Rations and whatever else that can be considered a perk.Then as a added measure go ahead and put a negetive monetary value to all our problems like seperation/inability of spouses to work becos of frequency of transfers, lack of housing.If anybody thinks that CTC is any better than the average civil servants after all those calculations I wud like to know how.
5.And as a final step, if what the army gets is more than it deserves then can someone pls explain why there is de-facto ban on processing applications for retirement/resignation?

6. But all that aside , some of the problem lies within the army. Why are we holding on to offrs who don't want to serve? Let anyone who wants to leave go. And then based on our manpower availability start saying "there is only so much we can do, with the present strenghth, not any more" I can say with some degree of confidence that our numbers wud not fall too drastically! There might be a temp spike in the numbers quitting, but for a very short period.Can our bosses take that decision? No!!Everyone wants to bow out smelling of roses.
So many of us lament the quality of life in peace stations.Long working hours. Shamiana and working party commanders.Much of it is in our own hands to control.Can we say that Sundays are holidays so I don't report to office for routine work which can be done on any working day? We should but we do not.Ultimately a large part of the army life is tough becos we are unable to put our foot down and call a spade a spade.Our wives are treated like serving soldiers, what with detailments for ladies meets and so called welfare meets.But thats not something that the govt wants out of you.All this is happening to pander to the egos of our top echlon.Should we really want MSP for poor quality of life in peace stns which is of our own making?
7.BTW , that is only one facet of life in a peace stn. There are so many difficulties that are genuine. Exercises , camps Aid to civil agencies all take a lot of time and contribute to toughness that is as bad as in field areas.My point of saying what I have is that we should improve whatever we can. But that requires being the odd one out and being looked upon as the black sheep in a community that is delibrately gated to extract max pliability.

Anonymous said...

There is a major problem in the Pay Commission Implementation. Director Level of the IAS on completion of the 12th year (100% make the grade), and other civilian officers in the 13th year have been elevated to the highest Pay Band 4. However, Defence Officers have been denied the same after 13 years of service unless they are promoted to Colonel rank (Only 30% are selected after many more years). Thus, Service beyond this point is unattractive for Lt Cols as they do not reach Pay Band 4 despite putting in more than 13 years of service. Even, if Military service pay is given the defence officers draw about Rs 7500 to Rs 8000 less than his civilian counterparts including the paramilitary forces. Hence, para military forces are more attractive than defence forces post Independence Day.

Incidentally, after the 15th year Pay Band 4 is available to Para Military Forces, namely Commandants of ITBP, CRPF, Coast Guard etc. Currently Commandant’s rank is equated with Lt Cols, but Commandants draw lesser pay than Lt Cols.

As on 15 Aug 2008, IAS directors were drawing Rs 15100 on Promotion. Non IAS Directors, Addl Commissioners, including Commandants etc draw Rs 14300 at the bottom of the scale. The starting salary for Lt Cols is Rs 15100 (which includes rank pay, but remember rank pay was carved out of basic pay and it is basic pay for all purposes) as on 15 Aug 2008. Sadly, Independence Day was chosen by the Committee of Secretaries to erode the defence forces, the very persons who stand for the nation’s independence.

Strangely, Sri Krishna Commission had recommended Rs 26280 for the IAS directors drawing Rs 15100. The same amount viz Rs 26280 was recommended for Lt Cols drawing Rs 15100. What has changed now? Post independence day, the Lt Cols are in Pay Band 3 and draw Rs 14000 less than the civilians in Pay band 4. Even if Rs 6000 Military Service Pay is given the services are no longer attractive. Rs 26280 recommended by Sri Krishna Commission, if so differently calculated and applied for the two types of officers, means that the sixth pay commission report itself is flawed and has to be junked. Else these figures should be the same. No wonder the defence forces who have made every sacrifice are cut up.

Another component is the grade pay. While logic says both should get the same grade pay it is not so. The civilians draw a higher grade pay!!!!

Hence two officers drawing the same basic pay viz Rs 15100 on 15 Aug 08 would draw grossly different salaries. This is a sad day for the nation.

Ideally, the ‘Pay in pay band plus grade pay’ for IAS directors and Lt Cols should be exactly the same. Will the government rise above petty interests of a certain section!!!! This is a great problem area for the nation.

Anonymous said...

Why so much of controversy on status here? Is there any point in beating the bush around these IAS jokers? When our senior officers know that our Brigadiers work as Directors and Colonels work as Deputy Secretary, while posted in Ministry. Friends they have been deciding status on the basis of highest of the pay scale without counting rank pay and will continue to do so. It is high time we stop thinking about these issues and concentrate on improving our working conditions.

Anonymous said...

The officers in armed forces are welcome to aspire for higher posts and compensation for the hardships they face while discharging their duties in field areas. You are welcome to ask for better promotion prospects within your own departments but you should not really crib about status enjoyed by IAS should not even aspire for that status. The fact that you still do that too using exservicemen and ex-chiefs is merely an expression of rampant trade unionism devoid of any rationale or reason. After all we all gave the exams to get into the IAS but having not made it does not mean that we try to usurp the IAS's status through spurious arguments and ill informed comments about the IAS's dominance, a dominance which in any case stems from the different constitutional and legal roles of these services and not due to anything hatched by IAS officers as a tribe, as the thinking of these contributors seems to be. Demanding status based on length of service is a poor argument....

Anonymous said...

dear r k ....

what u r saying is correct...but please stand corrected...we join army at the age of 17 years just after 12th class....so trying to draw an inference that all those who dont make it to IAS join army is ABSURD AND ILLOGICAL...i m sure at 17 u too would like to direct ur energy towards soldierly conduct..hence i will also request the ias or civil services community to come out their false aura...given a chance i can proudly the defence people can beat IAS in their field..but would u like to dare to come into our domain and spend some time into life threating every day events..and if so then recommend compulsory service with army for ias and ips candidates...i m sure a lot of misconceptions wil go off..

Anonymous said...

Dear anonymous,
Why don't you wait for AVSC II which is likely to be announced on army day early next year. There will be ample opportunities for you to grow up within army . You give pay of a Col to a Lt Col ie Change the name of rank to a rank lower as has been done to SEs in fifth pay commission.This way you will be able to equate a Lt Col with SE and at all ranks. Which rank you call what will not matter to outside world. For the purpose of parity they are concerned what grade pay someone is drawing.

Anonymous said...

if your superseeded ltcols are so capable why do not you post them to regiments which are supposed to have huge deficiencies .why army does not withdraw its officers from ERE appointments .

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

Anomaly in reviewed pay commission: IAF chief

August 27th, 2008 - 9:08 pm ICT by IANS -
New Delhi, Aug 27 (IANS) The government must take immediate steps to restore the parity in the pay scales of officers of the rank of Lieutenant Colonels and equivalent with their civilian and Coast Guard counterparts who have been awarded more emoluments by the Sixth Pay Commission, says Indian Air Force (IAF) chief Air Chief Marshal Fali H. Major. Major has made the plea in a letter to Admiral Sureesh Mehta, Chairman of the Chiefs of Staff Committee and the Indian Navy chief, urging him to intervene before the government implements the recommendations made by the pay commission.

“The finance ministry is introducing yet another anomaly by lowering the extant of parities of officers of the armed forces, of the Lt. Col. (and equivalent), by retaining them in pay band-3, while raising similarly placed civilian and paramilitary officers to pay band-4,” Major wrote in the letter sent Monday. A copy of the letter was made available to IANS.

“It is reliably learnt that civilian and paramilitary officers in the extant pay scales S-24 (Rs.14,300-400-18,300) and S-25 (Rs.15,100-400-18,300) will be placed in pay band-4, whereas the same is being denied to the armed forces officers (Lt. Col. and equivalent) who were already in S-25,” Major said.

The IAF chief has pointed that because of this the civilian officers who were in the lower pay bracket (S-24) and were hitherto drawing lesser pay than Lieutenant Colonels and officers of equivalent ranks would now draw a higher basic salary.

At present, the India Army, the Indian Navy and IAF have 11,187, 3,528 and 4,216 officers, respectively, of the rank of Lieutenant Colonel and equivalent.

“This is not just affecting a Lt. Col. Because of this the pay of Coast Guard’s commandant with 23 years of experience will be equivalent to a Rear Admiral with 30 years of experience,” a senior army official said.

The cabinet Aug 14 cleared the revised recommendations of the pay commission, granting huge hikes to five million government employees, with special attention paid to military and paramilitary personnel.

According to the government, the revision translates into a 20 percent hike over the 40 percent across-the-board increase the pay commission had recommended.

The government promised at least three promotions for defence personnel and civilian employees under the modified assured career progression (ACP) scheme.

Civilians will be assured of promotions after 10, 20 and 30 years of service. Junior and non-commissioned officers and personnel below officer rank (PBOR) will be eligible for this after 8, 16 and 24 years of work.

The Military Service Pay recommended by the pay commission has been doubled to Rs.2,000 for PBORs and retained at Rs.6,000 for officers up to the rank of brigadiers.

Middle level officers - colonels, brigadiers and equivalent - are now placed in the highest pay band of PB-4. Lieutenant generals overlooked for promotion as army commanders due to lack of residual service will get the grade of an army commander.

The report of the Sixth Pay Commission, headed by Justice (retd) B.N. Srikrishna, was submitted to Finance Minister P. Chidambaram March 24.

It led to protests from both civilian and defence personnel, following which the government appointed a committee under Cabinet Secretary K. Chandrashekhar to study the various demands for financial corrections.

The three service chiefs also made a joint representation to Defence Minister A.K. Antony.

Anonymous said...

1. It is strange to note that IAF Chief has forgotten/ doesn't know that Lt Col/ equivalent ranks has been down graded from a select to a non select rank after AVSC I implementation, while it is not so with civil services NFSG grade, which is third select grade for Civil Services.

Anonymous said...

dear annony...

Anonymous said...

AO 8 of 85 designate ltcol as jt director i hope you obey army orders

Anonymous said...

AO needs to be revised.Its become as old as your old mind

Anonymous said...

if rank pay is to be added to basic pay then for csae of majors their grade pay should be 7600 as they would come in 12750 pay band
can anybody clarify and is the same being done

Anonymous said...

All the discussions above are useless regarding equivalency. First of all we should be unitedly asking parity of Govt pay with Private Sector only then Govt will listen otherwise just fighting among ourselves on the trivial issues like who is great, who is not great will serve no purpose. Respect/status is not a thing to be demanded, it has to be earned...

koolez11 said...
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