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Wednesday, June 24, 2015

Some myths doing the rounds, and the truth thereon

Since many improbable queries are being raised on One Rank One Pension, more so on social media, let me attempt to clarify some of these again to put an end to misinformation, especially for those not connected with the Armed Forces who may be unaware about the modalities of the concept.

Here are the three biggest myths doing the rounds on Social Media.


Myth No 1: Since OROP is to cater for early retirement, why should those officers who retire at 60 be granted OROP?

Truth: Nobody in the military retires at 60 except Lieutenant Generals. Civil employees retire at 60.



Myth No 2: Pay progression in civil service is faster and hence pension is higher but civil services cannot be compared with defence services and when an officer joins up, he/she knows what he/she is getting into.

Truth: Though many civil services had a faster career graph, the situation has gravely deteriorated since the 6th Central Pay Commission (w.e.f 01-01-2006) when Non-Functional Upgradation (NFU) was introduced for Organised Group A Civil Services. The said scheme provides that all officers of such civil services, if otherwise eligible, shall be granted the higher pay of promotional grades, even if they are not promoted. Hence, by default, officers who are unable to be promoted in their cadres are now retiring with the pay of an Additional Secretary to Govt of India (HAG) which results in (almost) de facto OROP. This concept of NFU has been denied to the defence services but remains applicable to civil officers working shoulder to shoulder even under the Ministry of Defence. For example, today, a Chief Engineer (CE) of the Military Engineering Services who may be a military officer of the rank of Brigadier may have his Civilian Superintending Engineer (SE) who would be serving under him, drawing the pay of a Lieutenant General under NFU and hence also the pension of a Lt Gen. So the boss gets a lower pay and pension than his subordinate!



Myth No 3: Personnel of the forces are granted employment on the civil side after being released from the Army, why then are they demanding OROP?

Truth: Absolutely untrue. There is no job protection for defence personnel after they are released from the forces, and by the way, they start retiring at the age of 34 years. Most of the personnel of lower ranks end up guarding our neighbourhood ATMs and a minuscule percentage is given the opportunity of government employment but much below their erstwhile military status and at Group D levels at times. Junior Commissioned Officers (JCOs) who are Group-B (formerly known as Class-II) gazetted officers are being offered appointments below the rank of Sepoy. To make this more understandable for those on the civil street, it is like offering a job profile below the rank of Constable to a recently retired Deputy Superintendent of Police. Is this fair?


Those who may like to know more about One Rank One Pension and related issues may like to peruse my two recent opinion pieces on the subject:



19 comments:

Anonymous said...

The news is that Govt is implementing OROP for ORs now and later for offrs.Is it right ?

Rajesh Krishna said...

Would the case for NFU for Defence Services be weakened or rather killed after granting of OROP to the Defence Pensioners?

Anonymous said...

So true,,,

Navdeep Pls keep up th good work in spite of higher echelons of our forces looking after only their interests,,,,, few are good and max are @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

md said...

We have not been able to project the OROP issue as asoldiers issue. It would be more understandable the. The issue in the media has always highlighted officers. The people who retire at 34and below 45 are missing from the focus.We need to concentrate on defence pay commission and defence pension which invariably needs to be different from the civil pension.If implemented ,will NFFU benefit the soldiers down the line?We have to concentrate on the lower rung.

Anonymous said...

YOU ARE DOING A COMMENDABLE JOB AND A TORCHBEARER TO ALL OF US.THANKS A TON AND E SUPPORT YOUR CAUSE.

karunakaran a said...

dear sirs,

reemployment means a jawan the day he is discharged the next day if he is put in civil job by the government that is reemployment whereas we have to undergo written test and oral and on successful completion of tests, we can be recruited, this is the award given to our merit and intelligence, no one can coin it as reemployment, this is separate compartment. no fee concession or mark concession only age relaxation is given to us as other reserve groups are having, this myth must be explained even if put in civil employment due to our selection we are having only 15 years service in the employment

sunlit said...

There are a number of very important issues raised in the blog post. Unless the blogger himself further amplifies the following, readers would remain in the dark:

*"NFU has been denied to the defence services" ~
Would it not be correct to say that unless NFU is also granted to Armed Forces Officers, in addition to OROP, the imbalance vis-a-vis civilian officers would not be fully addressed? Whilst OROP will address the shorter career spans in armed forces to some extent, though not fully, NFU is an additional requirement to address the "steep pyramid" in the Officers cadre of armed forces.

*"Personnel of the forces are granted employment on the civil side after being released"
Even if a tiny percentage is underemployed after retirement by the Government, the salaries paid to them have all requisite allowances adjusted on account of the pension given. How much of a shortfall between the pension granted to armed forces personnel and the salary and allowances that would have been earned, if the career spans had been as long as for civilians, does such re-employment account for even when given, which happens rarely?

*"Nobody in the military retires at 60 except Lieutenant Generals"
And, is it not a fact that all Lt Gens don't automatically get protected against differentials arising in their pensions compared to those of subsequent retirees?

Unknown said...

can you honestly say at what age an officer retires?? Is it 34/38/40/45/50

Anonymous said...

What exactly is the Organised Group A Services? May be we have been focusing it wrong. OROP could have been a choice for ORs and JCOs which would have been accepted much faster. Whereas for officers we could have pressed for NFU. May be it is late but that appears to be a solution and this should be effective Jan 2006.


rajesh said...

Dear Major Navdeep

Please refer myth no 2 and your reply to myth . Let me clarify the myth that through NFU every one in civil servicces will get pay scale of HAG + . Or in your words , an SE can get pay scale of Lt General( Addl secy Scale on civil side ) . No way . As eligiblity conditions of NFU prescribe that an officer should be otherwise eligible for promotion to that post . An SE can not get Addl secy scale because , to get ADDL SECY SCALE ( or ADG scale in MES ) the officer should have worked as chief engineer for a certain no of years . So an an SE till he is an SE will get NFU scale of chief engineer . similarly an an AEE will get NFU sccale of EE. this very AEE will get NFU scale of SE only when he actually promoted to EE and served min of 5 years in EE scale . So in reality NFU scheme is getting just next higher scale of the post .

An Capt will just get Major , a major just Lt Col , a LT col just as COL and Col will just get scale of Brig . a col will get maj Gen scale only when he actually promoted to Brig and served certain no of years as Brig as per eligibility condition of maj Gen Post .

of ccourse ACR gradings are also required .

So in present form NFU is not so beneficial for Army .


Pl do a reality check wwith an expert . I know wht the truth is .

rajesh said...

please do a reality check on provisions of NFU before jumping in to fray .

Anonymous said...

Answer to myth no 2 is not correct . An SE can never get scale of Lt Gen under NFU .

Arun Sharma said...

Dear Navdeep
So far the serving and retired def personnel spoke only through their respective chiefs or their representatives then you and Maj Dhanpalan arrived on the scene and things slowly but surely began to change and take definite shape, now we have the proper forms were well informed, meaningful discussions can be carried out in a civilised manner. Hence expression of my appreciation and gratitude.
As regards NFU can the interpretation of the anomalies committee not be challenged in a court. Is it not that a benefit is being denied to services merely on semantics. Commissioned or Org Gp A services - how does the difference play out in application to conduct of governmental business.
For the sake brevity i stop at this. I will look forward to your response on this point.
Regards

AKS

VETERAN said...

@ NAVDEEP . Who is to be blamed , our selves .Service chiefS Did not accept separate pay commission for Defence services.
All said well, what about our second cousin (SSC OFFICERS ) .THEY LEAVE THE SERVICE AFTER 5 TO 14 YEARS FOR VARIOUS REASONS ,WITH NO PENSION, NO GOVT .CONTRIBUTION OF PROVIDENT FUND (UN LIKE CIVILIANS),NO MEDICAL BENEFITS,SERVICE NOT COUNTED FOR
SENIORITY,PENSION (NPS).CIVILIANS GET PENSION AFTER 10 YEARS OF SERVICE.

OROP - WITH ADVENT OF 6 TH PAY COMMISSION , ALL MOST ALL ARE ON PAR , SPECIALLY THE OFFICER LOT , EXCEPT FEW INCREMENTS THIS WAY ARE THAT WAY.
DEFENCE SERVICES SHOULD HAVE A SEPARATE PAY COMMISSION, ARE OUR GENERALS READY FOR IT, DEFINATELY NO. SO WHO IS TO BE BLAMED. OURSELVES BROTHER OFFICERS AND OTHER RANKS.

Hemen Parekh said...

One Rank , One Pension ( OROP )

As against 14 lakh serving military personnel , there are some 25 lakh retired military persons , in India , today

They are demanding , " One Rank , One Pension "

In simple terms :

> Col Mhatre retired in 1985 , with last drawn salary of Rs 10,000 pm

> Col Chari retired in 2000 , with last drawn salary of Rs 50,000 pm , and

> Col Patel retired in 2015 , with last drawn salary of Rs 100,000 pm

They all served for 30 years at the time of retirement

As per present Pension Rules, by way of pension :

> Col Mhatre may be getting Rs 2000 pm

> Col Chari may be getting Rs 10,000 pm

> Col Patel may be getting Rs 20,000 pm

Under OROP , all of them would today , get Rs 20,000 pm !

And as salaries keep climbing , with each passing year , they will all keep getting the same amount as pension, as the latest retiree in the same rank , who has put in same length of service , at the time of retirement

A kind of " Indexation " , aimed at neutralizing the ever-rising " cost of living " which is same for all three retirees !

And , the argument goes :

" Why not ?

Those who are serving , get their " cost of living " neutralized thru DA ( Dearness Allowance ) which automatically keeps rising every month , as CPI / WPI etc rise !

Why should early-retirees be made to suffer , for having been born earlier / served earlier ? "

One cannot find fault with such an argument !

But if OROP is implemented , the Governments ( Central + States ) must get ready with answers to the following :

> Will this lead to similar demands from millions of retired para-military forces and Police personnel , in all the States ?

> Could this lead to similar demands from all retired Civil Servants , at the Centre as well as , in the States ?

> Can this demand find an " Echo " in all retired Municipal / Panchayat employees , all over India ?

> Will private sector retired employees make similar demands on Corporate Employers ?

After all , no retiree ( of any kind ) , can escape the ravaging effects of ever - rising inflation ( cost of living ) ! Be rest assured , they will all be justified in making similar demands !

This raises following further questions :

> Will this set in motion , a Vicious Circle ?

> Will this make India , a " High Cost Economy " ?

Only time will tell

But one thing is crystal clear

Each succeeding generation will be required to bear the burden of ensuring that its preceding generation manages to live a life of dignity , which could well run into Rs lakhs of Crores !

I cannot escape comparing this potential scenario with the present Greek Tragedy , where almost all citizens ( whether serving in Government or in private companies ) ,

> Retire at the age of 50

> For the rest of their lives , draw a pension equal to 90 % of their last drawn salary !

I am not against OROP

I am for creating awareness of the issues and for starting a National Debate

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

hemen parekh
09 July, 2015
hcp@RecruitGuru.com
B2BmessageBlaster





VETRERAN said...

@ NAVDEEP

OROP SOUNDS MUSIC TO THE EARS,BUT FACTS ARE OTHERWISE .

A PRE 2006 RETIRED LT.COL IS GETTING MORE PENSION THAN A POST 2006 .RETIRED COL.
A lt.col retired IN 1995 WITH 2YEARS AS LT.COL is getting a pension of RS 56225/ AS ON TODAY.
I HAVE RETIRED AS A COL .IN 2014 WITH A BASIC OF 67350(basic +grade pay +msp)
my pension is fixed at Rs 33680.
I AM GETTING A MONTHLY PENSION OF RS 54890/.
THAT IS A DIFFERANT ISSUE THAT MY COMMUTED VALUE IS HIGHER.
NOW THE QUESTION COMES CAN A OFFICER ONE LOWER TO ME DRAW HIGHER PENSION THAN A RANK HIGHER.
I HAVE INTERACTED WITH MANY OFFICERS WHEN WE MEET IN RSI , THE REPLY IS SAME.
NOW IN THIS CONTEST, MAJ.NAVDEEP ,AS A LAWYER IS NOT AN ANOMLY. CREATED BY 6TH PAY COMMISSION.
NOW TELL ME WHAT IS OROP. SERVICE PERSON OF SAME RANK SAME LENGTH OF SERVICE IRRESPECTIVE OF DATE OF RETIREMENT SHOULD DRAW SAME PENSION.

FOR EASY UNDERSTANDING I HAVE BROUGHT THE PENSION OF LT.COL.
IF I MENTION MY COL.(FRIEND IT IS MUCH MUCH HIGHER.)
OUR CONTENTION IS IAM OF THE SAME RANK JUST BECAUSE IHAVE RETIRED EARLIAR IAM GETTING LESS PENSION THAN PRESENT RETIRES.
BUT ACTUALLY ON GROUND IT IS DIFFERANT. PERSONS WHO HAVE RETIRED BEFORE 2006 ARE GETTING MORE PENSION THAN THOSE WHO HAVE RETIRED AFTER 2006.IT IS A FACT .
MAJ NAVDEEP PL.VERIFY THIS.
IT IS SAME IN ALL RANKS.
PL. TAKE ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF ANY CHIEF WHO RETIRED AFTER 2006 AND COMPARE IT WITH ANY CHIEF
WHO HAS RETIRED BEFORE 2006 , MAY BE IN 1970,1980 ,1990 2000.I HAVE INTERACTED WITH FEW,
for them basic pension may be same ,but what actual amount deposited is less in case of post 2006 chiefs than pre 2006 retires.
Now whose pension to be raised pre 2006 retires or post 2006 retires.
two class of pensioners are arising.
what is deposited in bank matters ,as there are no deductions at source.
I go to the same super market, /CSD , AS A lt.col/ col retired before 2006
with less pay packet than them .
now tell me what is OROP.
MAJ .NAVADEEP YOU ARE A ADVOCATE DO I HAVE CASE TO FIGHT LIKE MAJ DHANPLAN AND OTHERS OR LIKE OUR MAJ.GENS .IAM LEAVING IT TO YOU TO TAKE UP THE ISSUE OR NOT.

6TH PAY COMMISSION has BROUGHT AN ANOMOLY WHICH COURTS HAVE TO DECIDE.

I DONT WANT THE PENSION DEPOSITED OF PRE RETIRED 2006 TO BE BROUGHT DOWN OR PENSION OF POST 2006 RETIRED TO INCREASED.
FOR THEIR INFORMATION AND TO TAKE OUT THEIR MISCONCEPTION IAM POSTING THIS. MANY KNOW THIS BUT PRETEND NOT TO BE AWARE OF IT.

Anonymous said...

Dear Navdeep,

There are certain fallacies/ myths which are perpetrated by army officials too, I would like to give a different perspective on that :

Comparing a JCO in Army with a DySP in police is the biggest sham, DySP is a Group A Gazetted Rank in central government and most states, drawing a salary in 5400 grade which are recruited through Public Service Commissions. A JCO is atmost comparable to a Sub Inspector who draws the same grade salary. Most of the sepoys in Police retire at the post of HeadConst / ASI they dont even reach the rank of Sub Inspector / Inspector leave alone DySP. Even the promotee in DySP cadre is the one who joined as direct Sub Inspector, not as a sepoy. Now coming to the Army, No one joins Army at mid level post equivalent to SubInspector of Police. All of them except Captains, join at sepoy rank and dont even posses the quality and qualification to qualify even a SubInspector level exam. So please stop this nonsense equivalence.

Officers in army who join as Short Service Commissioned officers are those who don't get any permanent employment in government side even on lower ranks, it is a sub standard entry for people who know that they will be retired without any career prospect or pension and they are still willing to join , its mostly due to desperation rather than patriotism. No bright kid ever joins or wants to join as SSC officer. Even army personnel advice their relatives to consider SSC entry as last resort when all options on both civil and military sides are exhausted.

Officers in army draw a PENSION whereas on the civilian side people draw their own contrubution in pension fund known as NPS. Pension for civilian personnel has been stopped for people joining since 2004, even for civil service officers.

NFU is applicable to Army Officers till rank of Lt Col, which is a pay band 4 post and hence they now retire at the rank of Colonel atleast. They are not as deprived as a Jawan , neither they undergo the same financial crisis nor the same service hardships as that of a Jawan. The biggest hurdle in getting the OROP implemented is the attitude of Army officers who want to corner the benefit for themselves showcasing the hardships of jawans.

Most army officers ask how many IPS have died in CAPFs. This is a intriguing question since CAPFs are now commanded by their own officers till the rank of Commandant exclusively. After that DIG and IG posts have both CAPF officers and IPS. So IPS don,t have operational role in CAPFs, and as far as CAPF officers are concerned they are directly recruited by UPSC and have made sacrifices equivalent or more than army but they still dont have NFU and earn NPS instead of Pension. Such an Irony !!!!

Regards
Follower of your blog

Anonymous said...

@ Anonymous @ 3.39 pm 19 July 19 2015,

Entry into uniformed services( MILITARY ,PARA MILITARY FORCES) for youngsters is the last resort.Lets NOT generalise. Entry IN AMC, ADC, AVC ,JAG IS only through Short service Commission. DEFENCE services are preferred than CAPFs .
NO service ,type of commission is greater than others , Certain places CAPFS ARE DEPLOYED IN THE FORE FRONT.SO lets not raise the issue why for them why not for us.ALL uniformed services minus civil police/IPS ,SHOULD GET BETTER BENEFITS.
ALL posts in CAPFS SHOULD BE FROM THEIR ORGANISATIONS ONLY AND NOT FROM IPS.

Anonymous said...

Dear @Anonymous @July 20, 2015 at 6:15 PM,

Your comment that "Defence services are preferred than CAPFs" is vague and illogical at the best because Officers of both services are recruited by UPSC at same pay scales and through different exams with great amount of difference in exam pattern. There is no way that one is being asked to prefer one over another. Second thing is that people who in general clear CAPF exams are Civil service aspirants who prefer it as second option, they don't have anything in common with CDS exam aspirants.

Today the youth is much more aware through the use of internet , almost everyone applying for these posts knows the benefits and drawbacks. But having spent time amongst aspirants of both CDS and CAPF exams of UPSC, I would like to point out the causes due to which you can say that if in theory someone clears both exam then which post he will choose :

1. Defence forces offer Old Pension instead of NPS given in CAPFs.
2. Defence forces offer CDS canteens where everything is available at much lower rates than ill equipped police canteens of CAPFs, even that they have to share with civil police.
3. Defence officers have more leaves in a year than CAPF officers.
4. Defence officers get paid MSP over and above the regular salary, CAPF officers don't.
5. Defence officers get to live in swanky cantts after hard assignments whereas in CAPFs officers move from one hard duty to another throughout career.

When there is equal risk to life , you tell me which once is more advisable to be chosen first. Invariably a youngster will chose to go in defence forces.

It can happen only in our great country that two people who are supposed to fight for country with life on the edge are given different treatment because one is in Defence and other is in CAPF.

Defence and CAPF have to be treated on a similar manner keeping in view the hardships faced by them and they must be paid much better than the safe secure and corrupt bureaucrats of ours, so as to keep the morale of troops and officers in both services high.