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Sunday, August 25, 2013

Simple faujis. They know not what hit them!

The issue of Non Functional Upgradation (NFU) has been one of the major carrots for the officer cadre of the three defence services.

Last year, the Prime Minister had appointed a Committee of Secretaries for looking into various demands raised by the defence services and the said committee was to submit its report by 08 August 2012 after which the announcement was expected to be made by the PM on the eve of Independence Day 2012.

Besides restoration of status, one of the issues was Non-Functional Upgradation as stated above. Explained earlier on the blog,  NFU basically implies that whenever an IAS officer gets empanelled at a particular appointment at the Centre, all other Group-A service officers are also upgraded to the same level after a period of two years from the date of empanelment, on a non-functional basis irrespective of whether they are actually promoted or not. For example, if an officer of the IAS of 1982 batch is empanelled as an Additional Secretary to Govt of India, then all other Organised Group-A civil officers of the 1980 batch shall also be placed in the ‘Addl Secy to Govt of India’ pay grade of Rs 67000-79000 (Higher Administrative Grade/HAG) which is the same as a Lt Gen of the Army. As a result, almost all organised Group-A civil officers are retiring with the pay and pension of a Lt Gen whereas less than 1% of defence officers are retiring in the said grade. Interestingly, in many arenas, civilian officers serving under senior military officers are drawing a much higher pay (and consequently pension) under the system of NFU than their seniors from the defence services.

The report was ultimately submitted by the Committee to the PMO on 17 August 2012 rather than the scheduled day of 08 August 2012, and interestingly, the three Chiefs were given positive signals on the same by all concerned. Even the Services HQ were informally informed by Ministry of Defence staffers that it was only a matter of time before the report was accepted and implemented and all quarters had recorded positive notes on the subject. Of course, this was taken as the truth by the Services and the gullible faujis. Till date, the Services HQ are waiting for the final orders to be issued.

How wrong they were!

The MoD has kept everyone in a twist. The MoD in its inputs to the Committee has NOT recommended the grant of NFU to commissioned officers of the three services and has in fact recorded just the opposite in its comments. The MoD has recorded in its note that service conditions of the defence services are different than civilian officers and ample benefits are already available to them in the form of Military Service Pay (MSP) and other allowances and therefore the contention of the Services is not logical. The financial implications for the grant of NFU have been calculated as Rs 69 crores.

On the issue of restoration of status and parity of the defence services, the MoD has time and again in its inputs referred to the 2008 report of the Group of Ministers led by the then External Affairs Minister Mr Pranab Mukherjee. However, a perusal of the report of the GoM makes it clear that the GoM, ostensibly again due to wrong inputs from the MoD, has faltered on many points, some of which are:

(a)  The GoM states on record that rank pay is not a part of basic pay and recommendations of the 4th CPC were merely recommendations and the cabinet decision is the final word on the issue. The GoM is totally wrong on this since the Cabinet itself had approved that particular recommendation of the 4th CPC which ordained that rank pay shall be part of basic pay for all intents and purposes. The same was also mentioned clearly in all Instructions issued by the MoD after the 4th CPC. Also, the Supreme Court has already decided that rank pay is not to be deducted from basic pay and hence any such statement recorded by the GoM is non est and redundant in the eyes of law. Moreover, rank pay was carved out of basic pay itself and till the 3rd CPC, without taking into account the rank pay, the Senior Time Scale (Under Secretary Govt of India) was equated with a Captain and Selection Grade (Director Govt of India) was equated with a Lt Col. When did the Govt issue orders after the 4th CPC degrading these military ranks?

(b)  The GoM states that there are 6 levels in the Civilian Set-up compared to 9 in the defence services which leads to bunching of ranks and grades. Totally factually incorrect. Let us place it out in simple mathematics. The levels of the Civil Services are:  Junior Time Scale, Senior Time Scale, Junior Administrative Grade, Non-Functional Selection Grade/Selection Grade, DIG/Conservator Grade, Senior Administrative Grade, Higher Administrative Grade, Higher Administrative Grade Plus, Apex Grade, Cabinet Secretary Grade, while on the military side, the ranks are Lieut, Capt, Maj, Lt Col, Col, Brig, Maj Gen, Lt Gen (HAG), Lt Gen (HAG+), Lt Gen (Army Commander/Vice Chief/Apex Grade), General (Chief of Army Staff). Now please count them. The Civilian set-up has 10 Grades while the Defence set-up has 11 Grades. From where was this figure of 6 vs 9 levels culled out and placed before the GoM??

(c)  The GoM states that Lt Gens are equivalent to Additional Secretaries to Govt of India. This may appear to be true to the untrained eye because of the one-sided imposed functional equation invented by the MoD within the said Ministry for day to day working, but is incorrect if analysed holistically since Lt Generals outrank all Additional Secretaries to Govt of India in the Warrant of Precedence by one Article. They also outrank DsG of CAPFs who have been placed in the Apex Grade.

Why does this happen?

There are multifarious reasons behind this, some of them are:

A. All decisions are taken at the back of the stakeholders as far as the defence services are concerned. The MoD processes the cases with their own notings, crucial meetings are then held behind the back of the defence services and then a decision is taken based on inputs and file notings of lower level bureaucrats without seeking a response or rebuttal from the stakeholders. The Raksha Mantri should be made conscious of the fact that whatever is put up to him on file is not the gospel truth and he should only take  decisions after making  the stakeholders an equal partner in the decision making process and not at their back. The Railway Board is the closest example of the system where a consultative process is initiated before taking decisions. The Department of Pensions and Pensioners’ Welfare (DoPPW) is another department wherein decisions related to pensionary benefits are taken only after a due consultative process by involving the official side and the staff side.

B. The Defence Services should wake up and record their disagreements fearlessly on file. Even in courts it is seen that even if the stand of the Services HQ is at variance with that of the MoD, they would strangely start parroting the stand of the latter at their own peril and detriment. As independent Respondents in court cases, the Services are expected to present their own views and replies on the subject and not parrot the lines of some Section Officer or Under Secretary, otherwise what is the use of the system of having separate Respondents in litigation? Moreover, at key appointments, we sometimes let go of larger organisational issues for small personal gains, or want not to spoil ‘relations’, or want to impose personal opinion on file even if it negatively affects the future of thousands of others, and which is willingly agreed to by juniors because of obvious reasons. This has to cease, but this is not something that can be drilled-in or inculcated, the voice has to come from within, which of course is a tough call. I do not see it happening in the current culture.

C. There has to be passion at work and strength of conviction. While glamorous issues are taken up in greater detail, issues which lie below the surface are not even touched. Expertise of officers who are positive in their approach should be recognized and they should be posted to key appointments irrespective of their posting profile. While the Air Force and the Navy are adept at this exercise, the same is lacking in the Army. For example, an officer who may be an expert in a particular field is not posted on an appointment requiring his expertise on the strange pretext that he was posted to the same station a few years ago, but another one who has no inkling of a particular job profile would be posted to the said appointment only because he had attended some obscure course somewhere or attended the Staff College or the CDM. Hello comrades, welcome to the real practical world, it extends much beyond PSc!

DStop inflicting injuries to yourself. Limited Medical facilities to our old Emergency Commissioned Officers and Short Service Commissioned Officers as were available under existing instructions have been challenged by the Army itself in the Supreme Court. Imagine, the Army challenging its own scheme saying that medical facilities should be refused to its own officers. The concerned officers of the AG’s Branch and the DGAFMS who were instrumental in taking this action must be feeling great about it. Yes, sadism is pleasurable for some but round the world is and it all comes back. We have been so cheap on the said subject that after filing the sadistic appeal, we have deleted the "limited medical facilities to SSCOs" clause from the official brochure on terminal benefits issued by the AG's Branch. Another example, the Dynamic Assured Progression Scheme (DACP) for military doctors was stalled by our own people in uniform even after cabinet approval when the Chief of Staffs Committee (COSC) and the PPOC opined that it should not be implemented since it would result in doctors getting better pay and facilities than officers of other arms and services. Rather than saying that yes, DACP should be implemented for military doctors and then anomalies of others should also be resolved, we insisted on its denial to our own despite the fact that the MoD, DGAFMS, Air HQ and Naval HQ were fully in favour. When the AFT directed that it should be implemented, the MoD has now appealed against the same before the Supreme Court. and one of the major grounds of appeal of the MoD before the Supreme Court is that even the COSC has not recommended the grant of DACP to doctors. So there you have it! While DACP stands extended to all doctors under the central govt since 2008, it is 2013 and the case is mired in litigation for faujis, who is to blame? The problem is that we cannot see others happy, even if they happen to be our own. Period.

Wake up faujis!


Anonymous said...

thanx for enlightening all of us as we in the field are always in the dark with typical note that "its been looked into"

Anonymous said...

history repeats.samething happened with the MNS Officers during 2008.

Anonymous said...

Now What

medspl said...

i heard CRPF and BSF got DACP is it true?

Anonymous said...

hi navdeep
heard a lot abt u and my compliments for keeping the flag flying high and the continual fight for our legitimate rights and dues- u reallt r an inpiration to the community- we've spoken- u wanted that milestones book which we had published at ADGPI -pl fw dyr contacts- and let me assure u- ytill our senoirs dont stand up for the rest- these overdue benifts willl never come thru- at leat not in our lifetime- rightly said- high time they wake up- pray yr appeal reachs the right quarters-

lt col bhasker gupta- delhi 09818992883

Anonymous said...

What a Shame ...is this how you treat the armed forces..for just 69 crores is this how the defence forces are humiliated..it will indeed lower the morale tremendously

RJ Singh said...

Dear Major Navdeep,
Thanks for the update. you are absolutely bang on with most observations except Para 6 (b). During the 3rd Pay Commission, the civilians had only six levels - JTS, STS, JAG, SAG, HAG and Secretary. The Three Chiefs were drawing higher Pay of Rs 4000/- while Secys were drawing 3500/- Max. The Non -Functional Select Grade and Select Grade were introduced around III CPC to provide them with some Career progression (apparently to prevent stagnation) and hence should have no Mil Equivalence. Similarly the HAG +, Apex Grade and Cabinet Secy Grade (and the posts of Addl Secretary, Principal Secy etc) were imaginative "upward revisions" by re-classifications which had no Mil Equivalence. The answer is Simple = All IAS Offrs and Commissioned Offrs should get the same Pay at the same Service - whatever the Rank. If that means NFFU for Service Officers - so be it. No Civilian (except the President) should draw pay equivalent to the Chiefs. The Civilians can continue to assert the "civilian supremacy" through the President.

bala said...

Factual in depth analysis of cancerous mental make up,a sort of disease in MOD and top brass of ARMED FORCES for decades ; and inability & weakness of officer corps to stand up and express forcefully or with force of legitimate rightful ways. .
This is happening time and again despite inputs of this nature being freely fed in media for understanding of issues and implications.

NAVDEEP has been contributing so much in these matters . If people effected and concerned do not act effectively -it is pity and sad. NO POINT IN WAITING FOR SOME GOD ALMIGHTY TO RESOLVE THESE MATTERS AND ISSUES.

My heartful thanks to NAVDEEP.Every Fauji should express gratitude and fully support him in his efforts and mission.

This is the best write up ,I have seen -clearly bringing out the bottle neck/problem source.

Narendra said...

These BABUS should be sent to Siachin for a month and made to stay as faujis do themselves. No pampering....we are good at that.Till the three Chiefs speak up together w/o expectation of post retirement benifits, no body is going to bother.The faujis are facing this humilation, due own weakness and jeehazoori.

Anonymous said...

Well said Navdeep "The problem is that we cannot see others happy, even if they happen to be our own." We want Red Tabs , Car Flag, Star Plate but dont want our jrs to have them ??? This is in a nut shell the cause of whole problem !!! Grow up Srs !!!

Anonymous said...

The country where its forces are not respected will see the rising. Shame that 69 crores accounts for peanuts where billions are lost in scam. Wake up.

Anonymous said...

Hai Navdeep

@Bhasker Gupta

U r doing a gr8 service.... I m sure hundreds must have read this blog...For 10-15 minutes they must have cursed their Seniors..Thats it...

I would just say that as long as the stake holders are not part of an issue things cannot move and we ensure even in Army that they are not part of it. Simple example The accommodations for officers posted in Delhi... a rule is made for General officers that they can take any Major's accommodation as temporary on availability. think of the plight of a major having waited for a year plus and expecting to get a house.. and a Maj Gen just posted takes his house.....dadagiri ...Certain location are made exclusive for Cols Brigs and Gens like DK-I...

leave the Civil society once internal cleansing is done they will fall in line.... ........

Unfortunately due to the carrot hanging many dont fight for their legitimate rights and those who fight are labeled as rebels........

Major Anupam Singh

Anonymous said...


I keep telling a story of two families to my student officers

" There are two families with 5 brothers each. each brother is authorized to eat 2 rotis and accordingly both families get 10 rotis.

Family 1 : on receiving 10 roties eldest brother eats up 5... the second eats up 3.... the third eats up the remaining 2..... The last two are left with nil....and told that they are still young and then when they grow up they will get similar share..... so they both keep looking at the brothers when will i grow in seniority and get the rotis...

family 2 : out of the 10 rotis the family gets each brother gets his authorised quota of 2 rotis.... the elder one being more hungry manage additional rotis from else where but not eat up the authorised rotis of the younger ones....

The family 2 is the civil society... they eat... they have corruption... but they never take away the due rights of their youngsters... they look after them...see the case of Durga shakti nagpal... the IAS lobbu is behind them....

Family 1 needless to say.....who they are.....From getting just a neck piece to a youngster/ seperate menus... to eating away his authorization of Vehicle, manpower, time , space just a few "

Navdeep, the biggest issue is that the people who are cribbing today are doing the same when they are in a position to change....

Col Ravi Prakash

Unknown said...

Only solution

Awareness among all of us
Courage among all of us
Unity among all of us
Service before self among all of us

point no 2,3 and 4 is missing to a large extent.

Wg Cdr Sarvesh Rai

bala said...

It is the best. reading again-
Yes ! Wake up fauji. Come out of your sleep/intoxication.Even on legitimate and rightful matters /issues , the false sense of simple obedience/discipline and passive acceptance of visible disparities and denials over decades is cause and genesis of degradation.

Also lack of understanding of grades in civil services ,incl police and group A , by pers br(faujis in AG br) and their inability coupled with passive attitude /negative attitude of some individuals -has caused degradation.

Look at designations/ranks on civil side played around with one notation -SECRETARY with prefixes -personal,under,assistant,deputy,principle ,,additional,joint ,chief ,additional chief,cabinet ....etc and further secy gen . Also Director with similar asst,addl,Dy ,junior /senior gr ,gen....etc

It is time for every body from top to bottom and bottom to top to act.Look at! all grades of Gen officers are down graded and degraded over a period of time and so at all levels.
it is amazing that few MOD staff are creating havoc with defense services and the ARMED FORCES have not rectified.

Penmil said...

Dear Maj.Navdeep,
Thanks for the wake up call !

At Para, ".. ...(b) The GoM states that there are 6 levels in the Civilian Set-up compared to 9 in the defence services which leads to bunching of ranks and grades...... ",.To put the records right, the stages in the Armed Forces
Pay Scales are now the same in number ,that is 11 as in the Civil Services.
We have to add, to the Civil Services, the Junior Scale-Pay Band - 3: Rs.15600-39100 plus Grade Pay Rs.5400, which is now equated to Lieutenant Equ.

Thanks to the gentle reminder to the powers, that there is work to do in the areas of NFFU and DACP( for doctors) and in many other anomalies.

Navdeep / Maj Navdeep Singh said...

@RJ Singh

The GoM had submitted its report in December 2008 and was referring to post 6th CPC era, and not 3rd CPC scales. It in fact stated the grades from Under Secretary to Govt of India (STS) and above, and totally omitted to mention JTS.

Anonymous said...

This will lead to a unbridgeable divide between the armed forces and the babus..govt is indirectly inciting mutiny, dissatisfaction,loss of morale and prestige amongst the uniformed fraternity for just 69 crores..hope Mr Anthony is aware of the repercussions of the negative notings by MoD!!



Anonymous said...

@ Col Ravi Prakash

I wish I could touch your feet.
Awesome example of Roti's.

however, you are factually little incorrect here. The new trend is that the 3 elder brother want Garlic bread & cake with extra cream.

This is the new reality. The two younger brothers now have to first drink water & sleep and also sign the duty roster that they have recd 21/2 rotis daily. Once in a while, during festivals & visits of Sr Relatives, they are given 2 rotis and an apt photograph is published in the monthly journal and notice board.

AND let me assure the "CRIBBERS" here.

Nothing is going to change. The powers-to-be are too happy with their "ENTITLEMENTS" and free Phenyl-ration-vehicle-multiple sahayaks-free Goodies -gifts-no mess bills on leave etc to even bother about these 'stupid & disgruntled people ' making such noises.

Its a shame. No one is bothered.

Anonymous said...

Maj Navdeep.
keep it up.

The enemy is within.

Bloody caste-system ( regt ,school , arms ,posting ) n nepotism is highest in fauj ,
bcoz corruption ( bg scale ) is less here. chance is less, so less. Otherwise, we also can do it.

Anonymous said...





Sathye said...

When one finds even the Judgment of Hon Supreme Court itself is subjected to doctoring and further “adjudication” by setups like CGDA where else can you turn to in our constitutional edifice? There is a dangerous trend of account/audit agencies self- assuming authority to formulate rules and procedures as they please, accord every approvals and sanctions including pay to the services and thereafter themselves sweetly audit their own handiworks! The services have been pushed into constitutional and legal limbo with nowhere to go!


Respected Sir,

Requesting for information regarding of Non-Regular persons deputated to Army Postal Service from Civil Postal Department

I am requesting to you that the follwing information denied by my unit. I am serving in Army Postal Service as a Non-Regular Person (I deputated from Civil Department of Posts). I would not be rejoined to my parent office of department of Posts. Whereas, which type of pension will be allowed to Non regular person of APS.

Non-Regular Persons are working in all Ranks like Sep, Nk, Warrant Officer, Nb Sub, Sub & etc. The undermentioned requsite may please inform to me for my life and carrier.

1. How many years after Non-Regular Persons will be allowed to Pension when they are directly retirement from Army Postal Service. If minimum service and full service may please be intimated to us.

2. How may years after LMC Board Pension will be allowed to Non Regular Person of Army Postal Service.

Again I wish to say that Non Regular person are working in APS in all Ranks like above said.

I am requesting you may please be informed to us for my rights and information.

Yours faithfully,
Thanking You Sir!

Anonymous said...

Bang on target as usual Navdeep

Badal said...

Time to "HALLA BOL"

ninihala said...

Dear Navdeep,
Thanks for the nice write up on how faujis have been fooled. But we knew this all along. We are simple folks, not simpletons. It doesn't take a Newton to know that we are being short changed. As it goes in Hindi, 100 sunaar ki, ek luhar ki. That day will come sooner than later.
Secondly, could you please keep the narrative short. Your style compares with that of Arun Shourie who has written excellent books but nobody can read them till the end because of their length. This style must be suitable in courts etc, but we ain't lawyers or judges. So, please make your point in fewer words. Atleast I lose interest halfway through. A meandering argument doesnt suit a common man's temperament.
Keep up the good work and be short.

Unknown said...

Lt Col (Retd) MK Nagar
@ V Maharajan August 26, 2013 at 8:51 PM
I would like to advice you to have
correct answer to your query you should approach/address to :-
(a) Army Postal Dte New Delhi
(b) Your APS Record Office Kamptee
(c) Refer to AOL (All Office Letters
(d) Refer to ROI of APS Record Office Kamptee.
August 27, 2013

Vikram Waman Karve said...

A very insightful post.
Like you have said, it is the senior defence officers who are responsible for the pathetic state of affairs.
Senior Officers want all the benefits of their civilian counterparts, but are reluctant to enhance the career prospects of their own junior officers and men.
The Chiefs and Senior Officers need to answer these questions:
1. Why was the integrated running pay scale upto rank of Brigadier introduced by 4th pay commission scrapped? In fact, this concept of running pay band should have been extended upto General. This would have automatically prevented the One Rank One Pension (OROP) issue as pension would be linked with years of service and not rank.
2. Why was the AVS Cadre Review (2006) not fully implemented in the Navy by excluding Time Scale Commanders and not promoting them to Captain after 26 years like was done in the Army and IAF ? Why different yardsticks for different services? Is this jointmanship and unity?
3. Why is the retirement age not being increased to 60 years for all officers and men on par with civil services, police and paramilitary forces? If a paramilitary trooper can serve till 60 then why not a soldier?
Is any Chief or Senior Officer willing to stick his neck out for the welfare of his officers and men and resign on matters of principle if he feels that injustice is being done to his service?
As far as the defence services are concerned, both the problems and the solutions lie within - so let us stop blaming the babus for everything!
Vikram Karve
Vikram Karve

Academic and Creative Writing Journal Vikram Karve


We have lost 3 officers & 15 sailors in mumbai INS tragedy.....We can imagine how they felt at last moments of their life, since their bodies were severely disfigured & not identifiable due to severe burns...For mere suspension of one IAS officer, more & more sympathy is made including by those who are in Govt.... Here, mere suspension of one junior IAS officer & not a dismissal or no danger to life..But we have lost 3 SIMILAR RANKING OFFICERS (Lt COMMANDERS ) & their bodies were disfigured....
It is not easy going for indian military officers even on death...But status of these officers are systamatically downgraded & humiliated...If naval officers are going for sailing,they have to sail for weeks together leaving their families...At the time of sailing, they have to be vigilant,24 hrs a day for weeks together...In civilian life after duty,thay can go home& enjoy with their family...Sometimes,naval officers have to earn the displeasure of junior sailors, while extracting work or maintaining discipline....But such officers have to live with such sailors in the ships for weeks together & take food cooked by them....this is the case for army officers also....But ias/ips officers after duty, they go home & live safely with their family...Hence non granting of NFU citing MSP is UNJUSTIFIED....We have to takeup the case legally..

PRONOB ROY said...

It is horrible to say the least and actually makes one feel helpless after reading all this.

Prasad said...

At least I know that our own higher ranks had hit us very badly. Even when these 'babus' are willing to listen, our Generals think themselves as the 'one and only indispensable' and they do not tolerate anyone equating with themselves. This is what they did with the DACP to AMC officers. Realising their weaknesses the 'babus' are exploiting. The generals cry foul only when they were hit hard.

Anonymous said...

If the trend of downgrading defense services continues,a time will come that nobody will take this service as their career by choice.Its high time for our top generals to show a real concern for boosting morale of this service else this country will not find any soldier to fight for national security.The country is already in big trouble,at least let its last hope remain ALIVE.

Anonymous said...

Roti example is great.But applicable every where. In recent psst a retired Air chief managed an extra roti from elsewhere.

Anonymous said...

It is better to have babus as generals so that our woes can be taken straight to decision making bretherns and get it in our favour. presently these generals can neither stand for their juniors nor can defend their diginity.

Manuureet Singh said...

The file containing report and recommendations of Mr AK Seth, Cabinet Secy was sent by PMO to MoD in Aug 2012 only for in principle approval on issues related to NFU, wrong grade pay fixation, HAG, etc before these could be placed before and approved by the cabinet committee. This high powered committee was specially constituted by the PM to fast track pending anomalies of 6th CPC(in r/o defence personnel). It is irony that this file is gathering dusty comments there since last one year. It is high time defence forces are placed under Ministry of Labour since MoD whose sole reason for existence is defence forces, is blatantly insensitive to genuine issues of its own people.

IndianACE said...

Two things

1. The Briefcase Episode- Recently, instructions were received that all officers posted in MoD (incl AFHQ) are permitted to purchase a briefcase whose cost shall be borne by Govt. The permissible cost is based on the respective officer's pay grade.

The procedure to be followed is that the officer may procure a briefcase/ ladies handbag of his/ her choice, whereupon the expense shall be reimbursed on presentation of bill to respective force HQs

The scales are laid as follows-
Upto Lt Col-Rs 3000/-
Dy Director (GP 6600/-) Rs 3000/-
Col and Brig - Rs 4000/-
Jt Dir (GP-7600/-) and Dir - Rs 4000/-
Maj Gen - Rs 5000/-
Principal Director- Rs 5000/-

The letter with detailed procedure is signed by a star ranked officer.

2. Life on Charity Taj Palace Hotel, New Delhi holds an annual Charity Ball. The advert states-
“the ultimate protectors of freedom and liberty are the brave men and women in our armed forces.” They are the reason for the fundraising event, The Taj Black Tie Charity Ball, Taj Palace New Delhi on 31st August 2013.

So get used to life on Charity of the private sector as well as government.

One more Thing- When Navdeep started almost 7 years ago. I thought he is just showing the mirror and both the govt and the armed bureaucracy shall be made to follow their 'Dharma' or righteous path.

In due course, the obduracy of the civilian bureaucracy and spineless-ness of the armed forces 'leaders' (for want of a better word), has led to a situation when revealing articles such as these get about 50 or so responses and then deafening silence.

Dear friends, nothing is moving in Delhi. Expectation for a hand in some future gravy train is not only applicable to the retiring service chiefs. Our cutting edge colonels and Brigs wag on with equally hopeful eyes.

rajat said...

Armed forces come under Defence Ministry, Central police forces like BSF, ITBP etc. come under the Home ministry but in general under which ministry do the IAS/ IPS and there lower functionaries come under. The problem lies in the IAS actually being part of all the ministries and thus making decision only for there benefit. Armed forces is a specialist force thus we need to be separate from the babus and should not try to equate ourself to them which gives them a chance to marginalize. The answer lies in a separate pay scale as we do not conform to the one on one rank/ appointment structure of IAS/ IPS. Administration and internal security in the function of IAS/IPS but when armed forces are called in any place the authority needs to shift to the senior-most officer incharge irrespective of his rank and no parallels with IAS/ IPS should be drawn. I think the problem will continue if we try to draw parity with the civilian counterparts as actually no parity should exist.

Dhoop said...

@Vikram Karve:"..excluding Time Scale Commanders and not promoting them to Captain after 26 years..";

Do you mean to tell us there is no Capt (TS) rank in IN?
To the best of my knowledge, there's no select or TS differentiation for Cdr rank.

What are we talking about, here?

Of course, there's a difference when it comes to 'promotion' to Cdre in IN. That's more of an empanelment than promotion, or, at least, it used to be.

Anonymous said...

The Roti example.

How very true to the current trend.

So if it gets extrapolated to the next pay commission (letters for inputs are doing round currently), it will be just a matter of time that the 'incentives' will be too much for youngsters to join.

And then we shall have an Army with only the 'elder brothers' and NO younger brothers.

May the Lord give some wisdom to the ones who have lost it (or were born without it) !!!!

Anonymous said...

i WONDER WHY those HOLDING senior and responsible position DO NOT TAKE NOTE of the FACTS and take things for LOGICAL CONCLUSION
What holds them when they know they have already achieved all they could and now if they SERVE whom they COMMAND they will get BLESSINGS and GOOD WISHES of MILLIONS and if they still SERVE the masters ALL THEY WILL GET WILL BE SOME CHEAP PRIVILEDGES they really can LIVE WITHOUT

Anonymous said...

In the meantime, another legal cause of veterans seeks support and advice.

Anonymous said...

Fauji officers are second grade officers they must realise this and that is how they are being treated by the country. Why so much of ruckus on this and more over why did all they joined fauz and they are free to leave so let them resign at same time.

Anonymous said...

Dear all, it was indeed a great write up by Maj Navdeep. Sir, i have a small doubt as regards NFU. Pse pardon me if i'm wrong. As far as my limited knowledge goes as per NFU implemented for civilian officers an officer is considered for the next rank non functionally, if he considered for promotion to that particular rank and could not be promoted to that rank because of limited vacancy. Only then that officer is given perks of that rank non-functionally (2 yrs after IAS batch considered for that rank). therefore even if fauji's are given NFU how can a Col(TS) or Col(S) or Brig can get a pay of Lt Gen non functionally if they are not even considered for that rank. Therefore the only officer who will get the pay of Lt gen non functionally is the Maj Gen's who are considered for Lt Gen rank but could not get promoted because of limited vacancy. since most of the civilian officers get to the rank of Jt Sec's the NFU may benefit them. once again pse correct me if i'm wrong.Therefore I feel DACP kind may better suit all fauji's where we have pyramidal promotional structure. God Bless All.

Anonymous said...

Dear navdeep.
Gone are the days when army had any izzat. It had gone with britishers. The indep sucessive govts of india was scared of fauj and ensured that incompetent people are kept at the helm of affairs so that fauj can be MANAGED through them.
And why to curse outsiders when we ourselves are busy in crab culture ensuring our own decline...

Unknown said...

hi navdeep, kindly suggest and advice as to what can be done by the Fauji in this regard. either v hav mellowed down under the burdened responsibilities or hav forgotten how to claim for out\r rights. besides its quoted that v r governed by thousands of rules and regulations to keep our voice in tabs.....still its a good effort . keep it up

Unknown said...

What is the current status of the Medical facility to SS Officers? I served as an SS Officer from Mar 2003 to Mar 2008 with Indian Army and thereafter i was working in the private Sector.
I was diagnosed with Renal Cell Carcinoma(Type of Kidney Cancer) in Nov 2010.I lost my job during the treatment and all my saving and assets have gone in the treatment( 15-20 Lakhs have been spent on the treatment) and only around 2 Lakhs was reimbursed by the Private Sector organisation for which i was working.As on date i have no reserves and the disease has further progressed. I got hold of the AGs Branch latest brochure and i am sending an application for the medical distress grant.Is there any other option available? The cost of treatment currently is 2lakhs plus per month and the part of medicines is being sponsored by a Mumbai based NGO.If anyone can suggest any current update for financial grant or extension of medical facilities.