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Tuesday, November 15, 2011

Rank Pay Case

Many people keep inquiring about the status of the Rank Pay case which is now fixed for 22 Nov 2011 before the Supreme Court. Since the case is pending adjudication before the highest Court of the land, it is not proper to go into the merits of the stand taken by both parties before it.

However, I cannot help but make the following observations on the affidavit filed by the UOI while seeking a review of the judgement (Sorry, this may be a bit technical) :-

While the Hon’ble Court had only sought information regarding point to point pay fixation with reference to a specific rank during the 4th CPC, the UOI has gone out to project charts related to 4th, 5th and 6th CPCs showing comparison of the pay being received by Army officers vis-à-vis civilians.


On Page 10 of the affidavit, a Captain during the III CPC has been truly and correctly shown equivalent to the closest corresponding scale of Senior Time Scale, both of which start with the amount of Rs 1100. However on Page 18 relating to the V CPC, a Captain’s scale (starting Rs 10000) has been shown as corresponding to Junior Time Scale (starting Rs 8000) by the UOI which in fact is lower than even the starting of a Lieutenant (starting Rs 8250). Hence, in order to show a skewed pay comparison, it seems that it has been attempted to project that a Captain is getting much higher pay than the closest corresponding civilian scale. In short, while on Page 10 a Capt has been shown corresponding to STS, on Page 18, the same Capt is shown corresponding to JTS. Even the nomenclature of the scales such as JTS, STS, JAG, SG etc has not been mentioned perhaps to confuse the entire issue.


On Page 11, the III CPC corresponding scale of a Major (starting Rs 1450) has been shown as the Junior Administrative Grade (starting Rs 1500) but on the next page, that is Page 12, even a Lt Col has been shown corresponding to the same civil Junior Administrative Grade (starting Rs 1500). How can two military scales be shown equal to the same Junior Administrative Grade ? Even a Lt Col’s scale has been mentioned wrongly on Page 12 (Rs 1550 – 1950) whereas it actually was Rs 1750 – 1950. In fact, the closest scale to a Lt Col was the civil Selection Grade scale (Rs 1800 – 2000) which has not been reflected at all by the UOI. If at all a comparison was to be made, it could have been made between the Lt Col’s Selection Grade military scale with a start of Rs 1750 and the civil Selection Grade scale with a start of Rs 1800. The UOI has tried to compare the pay-scale of a Brig starting from Rs 2200 with a civil scale starting from Rs 2000 rather than comparing a Col (Rs 1950) with the closest civil scale starting with Rs 2000 and Brig with the closest scale starting with Rs 2250. Instead again a higher military scale has been shown alongwith a lower civil scale in an attempt to show that military officers were getting a higher fitment than civilians.


On Page 20, in the illustration of pay fixation, a Major’s salary (starting Rs 12800) has been compared with a civil scale starting from Rs 10000 (Senior Time Scale / Scale No S-19) whereas the actual closest corresponding civil scale was Junior Administrative Grade (IAS) Scale / S-22 with a start from Rs 12750. Hence rather than comparing the fixation of pay between the military scale starting with Rs 12800 with the closest civil scale starting with Rs 12750, the UOI has attempted to compare it with a much lower civil scale starting with Rs 10000 whose closest equal is a Captain who also has a start of Rs 10000. Again the UOI has attempted to misleading show that military officers are getting a much higher pay than civilians.


Again on Page 22, the UOI has tried to misleadingly compare the scale of a Lt Col (start of Rs 15100) with a civil scale with a start of Rs 12000 (Junior Administrative Grade / S-21) whereas the closest possible corresponding scale was that of Selection Grade / S-25 also having a start of Rs 15100. Shockingly, the UOI has attempted to compare the start of Lt Col’s scale (Rs 15100) with a civil scale with a start of Rs 12000 which is even lower than the start of a Major’s scale (Rs 12800).


On page 26, it can be clearly seen that officers from Lieut till Major are in Pay Band -3 (Rs 15600 – 39100) while officers from Lt Col to Maj Gen are in Pay Band – 4 (Rs 37400 – 67000). Similarly on the civil side, it can be seen that officers from S-24 scale (Selection Grade) onwards, that is, pre-revised civil scale with start of Rs 14300 onwards, are in Pay Band -4. However again shockingly, the UOI has tried to show a Lt Col’s scale (pre-revised start of Rs 15100) of Pay Band - 4 as corresponding to the civil scale (with pre-revised start of Rs 12000) of Pay Band – 3 in order to again portray that military officers are getting higher fitments than civil officers. It is actually the civil scale with start of Rs 15100 which is now in Pay Band – 4 which could have been compared with Lt Col’s scale with exactly similar start of Rs 15100 which is also in Pay Band – 4. If we compare these two scales, it can be seen that while the point to point fixation of a Lt Col with a start of Rs 15100 has been Rs 38530 in Pay Band – 4, the exactly similar corresponding civil officer with a start of Rs 15100 has been granted a fixation of Rs 39690.


On Page 29, again the pay of a Captain in Pay Band-3 but with Grade Pay of Rs 6100 has been shown corresponding to a Junior Time Scale officer in Pay Band-3 with Grade Pay of Rs 5400 in order to prove that a Captain is getting a higher pay. However this is also totally incorrect since it can be seen that a Junior Time Scale officer with Grade Pay of Rs 5400 can only be compared with a Lieut of the Army who is also in Pay Band – 3 and who also gets a Grade Pay of Rs 5400 as becomes clear from Page 26 of the affidavit filed by UOI. Hence a civil officer with a Grade Pay of Rs 5400 who is exactly equal to a Lieutenant, is being shown corresponding to the scale of a Captain just in order to wrongly prove that the Captain is getting higher pay. Needless to say, if a lower civil scale is shown in comparison to a higher military scale, the total amount reflected in the civil scale would be lower than that of the military scale.

The following was the proper comparative situation of Army officers vis-à-vis civilians prior to 4th CPC when rank pay was introduced. :-

III CPC

Junior Time Scale (JTS)

700 – 1300

Lieutenant

750 – 870

Senior Time Scale (STS)

1100 – 1600

Captain

1100 – 1550

Junior Administrative Grade (JAG)

1500 – 2000

Major

1550 – 1800

Selection Grade

1650 – 1800 and

1800 – 2000

Lieut Colonel (Selection Grade)

1750-1950

DIG Scale

2000 – 2250

Colonel

1950 – 2175

Addl IG Scale (later merged with IG/SAG)

2250 – 2500

Brigadier

2200 – 2400


74 comments:

IndianACE said...

Is there a particular individual who signs and submits such affidavit?

Is it possible for you as an advocate or a serviceman (or a group thereof) as an affected party to submit a counter affidavit to bring out the correct picture for information of the hon'ble court?

And can this gentleman/ woman submitting the affidavit be charged with deliberately misleading the court?

Col NR Kurup said...

Dear Maj Navdeep,

Even a layman can understand that the UOI has done fraudulent misrepresentation. Won't someone representing us will bring it to the notice of the Court ? I wish you have a say before the court when it come for hearing.

Anonymous said...

Maj Navdeep,
I can not but salute you and your efforts to help the defence services fraternity. Thanks a million. I hope, RDOA has also filed the rejoinder on similar lines. What happens to personnel filing such affidavit to the highest court of the country? Is there any way out?

Anonymous said...

Dear Navdeep

Thanks for bringing out the glaring blunders UOI is committing in trying to prove their wrong as right. I hope the Honourable judges (one of whom I think is same who gave the judgement on 8.03.2010 )will hopefully see thru the gameplan.I still have hope in our judiciary as there are many ppl like u who call a spade a spade and read inbetween the lines.
Hope for the best ending to this long pending battle.
GURDEEP SINGH
GROUP CAPTAIN (Retd )

WG.CDR.V.SUNDARESAN(RETD) said...

dear maj. navdeep, kudos to u for the exposure of the game plan. i only wish RDOA also sees the game and co-ordinate the case with full details.
I only wish and pray the Hon'ble SC does not fall prey to thei nitty-witty game plan and fooling by the babaus.
thanks and pray that u keep us updated as usual.

Anonymous said...

Dear Navdeep,

It is obvious that you have spent a lot of time on this issue. I thank you on behalf of the entire Fauji fraternity.

Also, as Indian Ace has asked, can you prevent the Apex court from accepting the UoI's false submission as fact. An affidavit or two : whatever these courts need to see the correct picture.

SOS!

Regards

sunlit said...

The last date of pleadings was fixed as 14 Nov 2011. It'd be useful for all concerned to learn how the misrepresentations were countered and whether any fresh submissions were made by the said date.

Harry said...

@ Maj Navdeep

Sir,

1. Thanks a ton for exposing the canard of lies of UoI and its SG's Office.

2. Infact I strongly believe that UoI has now tied itself into knots and I'm glad that hon'ble SC had asked for this affidavit form UoI. Even though we all were earlier cribbing about endless delay in final judgement which, to all of us, seemed an open and shut case but now we should all be happy and grateful to the hon'ble SC and the learned judges that they went into genesis of the issue and did not pronounce a verdict merely by going through the case superficially (even if that favoured us).

3. It is a boon in disguise for all officers. Now that the pandora's box stands opened widely and UoI will have nowhere to hide.

4. I'm 100% sure that RDOA's competent advocates would shred to pieces the misleading arguments put forth by UoI on record and expose the naked lies. This WILL prove to be a landmark case in getting back our lost prestige and status via-a-vis canny and crook boos.

PS: 1. Now I find it really hard to wait till 22 Nov! Just wait to see the SG and UoI getting lambasted and humiliated for malfeasance by the hon'ble SC!

2. If we get a favourable judgement with our status restored back to olden days, I may even reconsider quitting in Jan 2016, for I will be able to serve with pride! ;-)

IndianDiplomacy said...

Thanks Navdeep...As always for keeping us uptodate

Anonymous said...

Maj Navdeep, heartfelt thanx and kudos. You are such a blessing and a power of strength for us. May GOD Bless you and your family and your lovely daughter.All the fauzi fraternity thank you. Hope something good comes out on 22 Nov 2011.Regards Doctor

V Natarajan said...

Dear Maj Navdeep,

Excellent and forceful/ factful presentation! Must be made into a record at the court with doc eveidences, as I feel - that too as a non-legal man!

The pack of lies coming in as an "affidavit" may provide the defence group to seek a week's adjournment to file auitable reply!

Why not fire in full force as you have brought out with facts and figures ( as we did in our pre 2006 pensioners' case verdict at PR CAT- you have also highlighted in the blog)-- we did take one adjournment to "file an affidavit" not only in reply to Govt's pack of lies but also to put on record our submissions made in court whatever we had orally answered when judges sought clarifications on many issues like what were successive pay commission's recos for revising pensions of past pensioners, how the anomalies have surfaced, examples to ramp up such anomalies with a couple of documenst etc.

When we submitted this affidavit, again the Govt sought two months's time but the hon CAT didnt permit that log time. However, we did lose some time but such a "explanatory affidavit which we gave as our second MA" did pave the way for the unanimous verdict we got and it is a matter of record that most parts are repeated in the judgment as paragraphs with judges' remarks for each para in a line or two endorsing our submissions.

My views pl Regards.

Velayudhan said...

Dear Maj Navdeep,
Thanks for the hard work put in to dig in and take out a comparative study as what SG on behalf UoI is going to put up. The person who has pu the affidavit needs to be taken to task and should be exposed and media also should play a major role in exposing the lies of the beuroaucrats of the MoD. Now its also clear that the previous judgement by supreme court was in the correct lines as the judges may have already smelt the rat in the false affidavits.
Any way let us wait and see the outcome.But hats of to you for your patience and pusuing the matter in the right direction.Cograts !!! and keep the spirits high and bash on regardless. Thanks
Velayudhan

Anonymous said...

What i see in most of the comments above is despair and helplessness inspite of such blatant wrong representation of facts by a ministry to the highest court of the land that calls itself Ministry of Defence but does very little for defence services/personnel. Why do not call it by some other name suitable for the so called work being done by the ministry? Where does hon'ble RM and RRM stand in these issues? I hope and pray that at least they live up to the legitimate and justified expectations of defence personnel Or is it that bureaucrats do not bother at all about the repercussions of their such mischievous actions?

Anonymous said...

dear navdeep,
1 is it possible for someone to still intervene in the case positively.... in fact i will go to the extent of saying that having figured out all this .. it will be a dis-service(pl pardon , i do not wish to mean it literally , but cant think of any apt word) to everyone following your blog if you dont.pl give it a serious thought...without getting on the wrong side of the court..
regardless good wishes to the endeavour and to the blog also
2. i will also request, if any other reader knows someone whos directly connected with the case in the hiearchy to atleast bring the contents of the blog post to their notice
thanks
rajeev

Girish said...

Dear Major, you are doing a wonderful service to the services fraternity. thnk you.
How can these points (as brought out by you) be brought to the notice of SC?

babu said...

dear major navdeep
welldone. u have done your part. with respect to your clarification regarding page 22 i would like to bring out that as per vth pay commission the pay scale of lt. col is Rs 13500-400-17100 and col is Rs 15100-450-17350 where as u have mentioned that pay scale of lt col starts at Rs 15100. hope you would clarify the same.
regards
babu

Anonymous said...

heard that Harish Salve is fighting the case gratis for RDOA... so lets hear of the fireworks by SC on 22 Nov...

Col NR Kurup said...

The greatest concern is the way our paid media ignoring us. Are our affairs are less worthier than Bachans having a new addition to their family ? How many of our 545 MPs made any mention of our struggle of this ? Our Hon'ble PM and DM's stand is understandable; but what about our Chiefs ?

Lt Cdr DK Mishra said...

@ Mr Babu
Please Rs 1600/- rank pay also then it becomes Rs 15100/- starting basic of Lt Col and equivalents.
Lt Cdr DK Mishra

Suresh said...

@Babu
Lt.Col pay is starting at 13,500. Have you forgotten the Rank Pay of 1,600? Both to together 15,100.

Col NR Kurup said...

Let us wait without complicating the issue now. Lt Col Rank Pay is bound to raise many issues. As on now the Lt Col(S) Pensioners stand demoted

-- said...

Just holding my breath to read that the SC has seen through the UoI and I hope someone high enough gets fined for falsehoods. I pray so that in future MoD/MoF will shuddernext time. Nothing is lost because the RTI is still there and it can expose the lies after SC delivers it judgments.

Lt Col Manjit Singh Khurana said...

The affidavit submitted by UOI is a blessing in disguise as it shall be demolished by its' own contradictiond!!

corona8 said...

This serves as a clear pointer to the mindset of those keen to deny even the basic entitlements to the affected Officers. RDOA have put up a relevant update.

Penmil said...

The MoD seems to have aimed at two birds with one arrow.They wish to defeat the Rank Pay claim and also sanctify the ineaqualities introduced in 6 CPC in one attempt. There is a need for the services HQs to take interest in this since the starting points in 7th CPC will get changed if the MoD has its way.
That if it happens, will affect the next edition of pay scales of serving persons present and future.

Anonymous said...

Well, why not we call MoD as Ministry for Other than Defence rather than Ministry of Defence.
I am sure the ministry does not take up any issue on its own for benefit of the defence personnel. They are only looking to put spokes in what ever is put up to them (provided it is put up by our own brass at all). Why it is not the responsibility of the ministry to ensure that defence personnel get benefited in the same way as civilian counterparts. Why it is always the opposite. Will some one elaborate the role of our dear ministers in the whole charter of MoD. Do not they ask the bureaucrats as to what is that one improvement that has been brought about in the lives of defence personnel by their involvement? Who is finally responsible in MoD and department of ex servicemen welfare after all? Is not there any system of analysis of performance of a ministry/department at the level of ministers? Well, when they think that giving defence personnel their justified dues in a delayed manner and after scores of court cases is improvement, then we need not have any ministry by the name of MoD or else, the administrative and personnel matters of defence personnel can be taken out of the perview of MoD and dealt by DOPT as for civilians.

SANTOKH said...

Gentlemen,
Have faith in RDOA who are fighting this case since beginning.
I was sure they would have taken appropriate action to file counter affidavit.Follow this link:-
http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=8802975274436656078&postID=924656896826305997&page=1&token=1321547092752
God bless all

Anonymous said...

hi Maj Navdeep, please add the years of service to reach the above ranks on the army and the civil side to give the actual difference.

Joy Koruthu said...

Thanks for the startling discovery well documented by Maj Navdeep.
How will these facts reach the honorable judges before they deliver the judgment!
This is contempt of Court on the part of the official submitting the UOI's affidavit

Harry said...

@Anony Above

Sir,

Very valid point indeed. In addition, I would also request RDOA lawyers to clearly bring out the 'steepness of the pyramid' by mentioning the percentage of cadre strength of Armed Forces and AIS offrs making it to each Grade. This along with No of years of Service required to reach each particular Grade would make everything very plain to the hon'ble SC and nail UoI's egregious lies!

Anonymous said...

Thanks a lot to you Major,for doing a great job selflessly.I hope RDOA would also have understood the technicalities as brought out by you and will be able to fight the case better.Cunning and cleaver boos have to be shown their place.This is the last chance for us and I hope that the Honourable SC will certainly understand and give a just and favourable decision.


Col P B Singh(Retd)

Raghubir said...

Dear Major Navdeep,

Taking the correct III CPC table as pivot -if we can tabulate the down slide of Capt to Lt Gen till CPC VI- it will show the underlying aim in the trend.And may help in delivering correct judgement which should not get bogged down in voluminous useless data.

In the end only way out is constitution of separate PC for the defence to correct the cumulative injustice heaped from the very beginning.Rank pay case is one symptom of the much bigger malaise.

WG.CDR.V.SUNDARESAN(RETD) said...

Dear all, seasons greetings.
But the GOI is quite busy with the proposal/problems of the Kingfisher airlines and how to solve it?
Though the owner of the airline is having multi task business ventures running into millions, GOI is very sympathetic.
of course RDOA has very intelligent and committed advocates and they will tear into pieces the GOI's affidavit.

Kaps said...

Simplistically thinking, logic used in preparing the affidavit is thus: We have taken the armed forces for a ride for so long and no one has been able to figure out the sleight of hand; Let us continue this wizardary and hope we can continue to fool everybody.

Unfortunately, they have been right. Their sleight of hand was never caught by our distinguished powers that be. Were it not for the keen eye of Maj Navdeep, we probably would have still clapped our hands at the peanuts thrown at us.

Anonymous said...

In the integrated pay scale 2300-100-3900-150-5100, the max for a brig is 5100.If 1200 is added as rank pay,it comes to Maj Gen who did not have any rank pay.Hence the pay commission recommendations made 6300 as the starting salary of Maj Gen without any rank pay.The sniormost Brig with sufficient age could get at the most equal to maj Gen.
However if Rs 1200 is to be added to rank pay of Brig,then the pay of Maj Gen also needs to be increased upwards by at least 1200.It is a chain reaction and hence the serice officer of all ranks will get their original grade which was lowered by the IAS deliberately. It is not an oversight or error
Lt Col Johnson MT(Retd)

Col NR Kurup said...

RDOA must be needing money to engage good Advocates. I think it is the moral responsibility of all officers affected to share the expense. I wish the RDOA project any shortage of funds so that we can contribute our further share.

mhkhan said...

no use. you seem to be atrociously biased towards this issue. its a futile issue. indian army is such a glorious and esteemed organisation which doesnt require clutches of these baseless issues.

Anonymous said...

@babu
Babooji you do'nt even know this much? The govt of india made us fool by telling us that you get 1600 rank pay and it is counted as pay for all purposes but baboos like you utilized it to degrade LT COLs and you never added the rank pay in the basic pay for the calculation of pay in sixth pay commisssion

Anonymous said...

24 hours to go for justice that has been denied for 25 years.

Anonymous said...

Dear Maj Navdeep,
Thanks for the efforts for highlighting the anomalies in the affidavit. Will it be possible to post a copy or link of the affidavit so that we can see what has been submitted.
Thanks and regrads.

WG.CDR.V.SUNDARESAN(RETD) said...

Dear all,
The babus have got everything under the table quietly and as usual thro' somebody's shoulder. THe latest is they got even the OROPalso thro' CAT.

We are still in the dark and fighting a losing battle.

At least now the three chiefs should bring it to the notice of PM and the President and pf course, Madam Gandhi, the actual story with very strong arms. then only the govt will wake up

Rohit said...

Fresh date for hearing by hon'ble SC - third week of Jan 12.

Meanwhile- we need to strengthen the RDOA incl financial contribution by wives and parents of serving offrs- Great to note that it is headed by middle ranking retd offrs.

I always felt that lead poisoning from the fumes which originate from the freshly painted guestrooms and recently laid bitumen road surfaces whereever the senior brass go on visits, tends to effect the brains over period of time. :-)

COL LAMBA said...

DURING TIME OF COAS MALHOTRA POLICE RANK STRUCTURE WAS UPGRADED, SO IPS OFFICER WENT ONE RANK UP. COAS PROMISED THAT IT WILL BE REVERSED.IPS RANK STRUCTURE NEITHER
REVERSED NOR ARMY RANK STRUCTURE GOT UPGRADED
NOW ANOTHER BLOW A DIG WHO WAS SUPPOSED TO BE LOWER IN GRADE TO COL HAS GONE UP EQUIVALENT TO BRIG
HOW WE ARE JUSTIFIYNG AID TO CIVIL POWER .MOD IS REQUESTED TO INTERVENE & KEEP MORALE OF ARMY HIGH, AT LEAST GIVE FORCES THEIR RIGHTFUL DUE

Col NR Kurup said...

It is strange that the three Chiefs are not opening their mouth on this issue. I am sure that the top political leadership may not be knowing the facts. At least the Chiefs should meet the President and PM with prior briefing of PRESS Let the world know how Indian soldiers are treated by its govt.

surinder bir said...

The detailed analysis of the scales demonstrates that the officers representing AFs in various pay commissions had not done their home work properly and were more bothered about the awards and personal glory.
Surinder Bir
sbir@kecrpg.com

Anonymous said...

This case in the SC is a 'Rview Petition' filed by GOI. Then how come the GOI counsel, the SG, remains absent three times in arow and the SC still keeps giving TARIKH PE TARIKH. The SC should just throw away this petition if the petitioner himself is not interested in the case. The RDOA counsels should plead this line. I would like to know if there is any precedence where the Petitioner is absent and the SC keeps giving future dates.

anonymous said...

Dear Navdeep,

Hats off to you for all the efforts. Grateful.

gurcharan singh said...

pl refer table given in above post and other observation by maj navdeep .

the points drawn by maj navdeep are bone of contention . the rank pay was a part of pay that is genisis of the this whole case of rank pay . similarly the argument put forwraded by maj navdeep that pay scales including rank pay should be basis equalance between civil and military ranks .

actually there is no taker of this argument in govt or given consideration by succecive pay commisiions .
so in my view there is no major discrepency in the affidevit of govt of india .

in my view ultimately the writ of the govt shall prevail .

the comparative tables given by maj navdeep are creation of his own mind and do not have backing of any govt order past or present .

we have seen the similar arguments umpteens times on this blog .
lt col is equal to SE or dir is a dead issue now for all practical purpose .

i could not find any instance where a lt col is now posted to a post held by a dir or SE on civil side .

let us hope for the best from supreme court .

Harry said...

Shri Gurucharan Singh ji

1. Firstly, if you pls refer to the Pay scales mentioned by Maj Navdeep you will notice these pertain to 3rd CPC when there was NO concept of RANK PAY. So the equivalence put forward by Maj Navdeep does NOT have any element of Rank Pay. So your argument does not hold. But yes you are absolutely right in stating that Lt Cols are NOT being posted in the vacancy tenable by civ SEs. This is because of peculiar cadre management issue of the Army. After all the organisation requirement of Pyramidal Rank structure runs counter to the interest of career prospects of the vast majority of officers unlike civ Departments where vacancies are upgraded at whims and fancies of the senior bureaucrats/ministers to accommodate there own people and DPCs are just a sham and promote whole batches, save for a few exceptions like vigilance cases etc.

Secondly, 'IF' in the next Pay Commission Grade Pay (a concept taken from erstwhile Rank Pay of AF officers by 6th CPC) is abolished for some reason, do you mean to say that while fixing next revised Basic Pay for all (post 7th CPC), Grade Pay would be just discarded and not taken into account while fixing next revised Basic? Remember Grade Pay is akin to Rank pay on which all other allowances, incl DA are calculated.

Over to you now! :)

Anonymous said...

Well said 'Harry'
It is evident to all and sundry that discrepancies have been created when there would have been none. For what reasons, i do not understand. Why is it that these boos and civilian counterparts are so much against a fauji getting his dues? I cannot fathom any reason. Faujis are the ones who die day in and out, if not in field, counter insurgency areas, then in peace stations by virtue of army acts, rules, discipline, 24x7 working, op alert, aid to civil authority etc etc thinking that we are the saviors of the country when no one that is boos and civilians gives a damn to faujis life. MoD always fights against the faujis, why not for the faujis for whom it is meant?
What a pity for the nation?

gurcharan singh said...

there is nothing new in this debate . so i dont want to repeat the whole story again .

Anonymous said...

One only wonders till when will the three service chiefs keep quiet and let the injustice be allowed to their commands.

Col P B Singh(Retd)

hiremath said...

sir any change in the status of the rank pay case

LT COL(RETD) CK KAUSHIK said...

My dear major Navdeep,

I have gained a lot from your Blog.I do not know how to thank you.Your selfless service for the Vetarns is commendable.I only hope you have alerted RDOA on the subject.We all owe a lot to you.MAY GOD BLESS YOU.

Harry said...

@Gurcharan Singh

Sir,

If you don't want to participate in the debate that is entirely your choice. But I really wished you could counter me with your irrefutable arguments rather than just parroting convenient (to civs) line that 'Rank pay was NOT part of Basic pay for AFs officers'.

BTW Rank Pay issue has been already decided by the hon'ble SC in March 2010 and Govt has merely filed a Review Petition for recall of that Order citing huge pay out (which is nothing but just exploiting a legal loophole to delay the Case for as long as possible).

Anyway let us just wait for some (hopefully) more time uske baad sab doodh ka doodh aur paani ka paani ho jayega and thereafter one of us will have to SHUT UP for good!

Anonymous said...

@COL NR Kurup
sir just to get the rank of COL you know well that what all nonsense you had face so to reach upto chief level you can well imagine what all he must have done so now you think for juniors he will speak when he expecting some governership after retirement. But off course there were exceptions in the fight for PB4 for LT COL

Col NR Kurup said...

What surprise me is how could the SC allow a Review petition in this orders of 8-3-2010 by the Division Bench of SC under Order XLVII Rule 1.A review is allowed only on discovery of new and important matter of evidence which after the exercise of due diligence was not within his knowledge or could not be produced to him at the time when the decree was passed or order made or on account of some mistake or error apparent on the face of the records or any other sufficient reason.

The reasons advanced by government in its affidavit does not fit into this. Of cource our RDSO might have reckoned this.

Col NR Kurup said...

It is surprising as to how could government make foolish plea that it involve huge pay cut which government cannot afford or something like that. We are not asking anything new. What we are asking is to return the money cut from our pay unlawfully. That is as good as as asking our DSOP.Can govt say that we cannot pay due to non-availability of money. What happens in civil. If anyone fail to pay back the due despite court orders, that man has to declare himself BANKRUPT and the affect party can realize it by revenue recovery sort of things by attaching govt property and realizing it by auctioning that property. In this case also the government has to declare itself BANKRUPT to deny us the money taken from us.We can auction some part of government property to realize the amount. Maj Naveep will agree with me as to the correctness of my argument

Col Manoj said...

we 'faujis' cant do without getting into one upmanship and same i observe on this blog.The discussions indicate lot of negativity .Why we cant believe the facts brought out by Maj Navdeep,who is sort of an authority on subject (due to nature of job he is doing)?If any thing we require to support views of officers like Maj Navdeep and support the cause.
Col Manoj

dkm21432 said...

Can anyone update not he latest status of the case after the hearing on 22 Nov 11

dkm21432 said...

can anyone update the stays of the case the hearing on 22 Nov 11

Anonymous said...

any further update on progress of the case.

Sharadh Srivastava said...

Post found on a social group of faujis... is this really a true/valid argument... Re-posting portions for Maj Navdeep, comments please!

‎6 CPC: AGONY FOR DEF OFFRS CONTINUES; ISSUE OF NFU (NON FUNCTIONAL UPGRADATION) NEEDS URGENT ATTN - All Defence Offrs, please be informed that Offrs of other services with whom you interact on functional basis, like MES Civ Offrs, GREF Civ Offrs, Offrs of BSF, CRPF ,ITBP, Def Accts(IDAS), Test Audit(IA&AS), Ord Factory Bd etc, will now get the salary and grade pay of Joint Secretary/ Maj Gen (GP Rs 10000/-) in 19 yrs of service, and will draw the pay of Addl Secretary to Govt of India which is equal to a Lt Gen(GP Rs 12000/-) in 32 yrs of service by virtue of their service being Organised Gp A Service. If Def Offrs are not part of Org Gp A service then what are they :They are just ‘Commissioned Officers’. If all the above is correct then who all form part of Org Gp A Service and how Def Offrs call themselves Class 1 offrs; None of the Org Gp A service faces as much stagnation as the Armed Forces offrs because of its pyramidal structure. In fact, on the contrary, most of the Gp A service offrs, as it is, reach the level equal to Addl Secretary due to cylindrical structure of promotion of their service. Only issue for them is,’ in how many years’. In comparison, 97% def offrs retire at the levels below Joint Secretary / Maj Gen. Hence, if the logic of giving NFU to Org Gp A offrs is stagnation, then, no one deserves it more than the Armed Forces Offrs. Since Def Offrs will have to work alongside some of the Organised Gp A Services mentioned, a disparity of this magnitude will lead to functional problems .In some stations, it is already being heard that Civ Offrs have started projecting themselves as senior to top military offr like Stn Cdr. In a specific case a Civ Chief Engineer of MES has started considering himself senior to a COS due to NFU and started saying so all around. Such problems will only increase in future.

Harry said...

@Sharadh Srivastava

Sir,

While the argument for giving NFFU for Defence Officers is fully justified and understood, what is NOT understood is how a civ officer getting NFFU becomes functionally senior to his superior Defence Officer (who does not get it). NFFU by itself stands for 'NON FUNCTIONAL' Financial Upgradation! Yes undoubtedly we faujis are at a financial loss because of non implementation of NFFU for us but I did not know some amongst us are so ignoramuses that they buy the bait of NFFU and start Sir-ing their erstwhile junior civ colleagues who have now got NFFU (by being part of organised Gp A Service). :(

PS: Not knowing the solution comes later but not knowing the problem itself is our bane!

Anonymous said...

@Harry,You are absolutely correct.NFU doesn't confer any addl status, but what can you expect from this gullible offr class which gets befooled easily.If you can be fooled so easily on the larger issue of salary then by civil services, surely you can be fooled much more easily on the issue of status!!Another jewel in this status issue is that some IDSE offr in a particular Comd Hq is asking for type 6 accn (MajGen equvlnt)!!As another offr told me,already Border Rd HQ has started feeling tremors of this issue.As for the info on the subject 'Agony for Def offrs....'all the facts mentioned are correct and amply supported by authority,however,in case of any clarification pls send your query to neerajtripathi75@yahoo.com.

Col Manoj said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Col Manoj said...

wishing a very happy new year to all!!!

COL LAMBA said...

1.RANK PAY CAPT TO BRIG IS NOW ON 18 JAN,2012. KINDLY NOTE MY E MAIL FOR INTIMATION OF ITS PROGRESS
2.MAY I KNOW CASE DETAILS NUMBER.CASE TEXT,JUDGES,ADVOCATE NAME EXTRA FOR SEEING ON WEB SITE
THANKS

COL LAMBA said...

RANK PAY CASE STATUS
Though the case was listed for 18 Jan 2012 , in the Hon'ble Supreme
Court, it did not get chance to come up for hearing.
Reason: The case which was partially heard yesterday was contd today
and took up the whole day for arguments. At the end of the day all
cases which were scheduled for 18 Jan 2012 were given fresh date of 21
mar 2012.

Anonymous said...

ANY PROGRESS ABOUT HEARING ON 21 MAR 2012?WILL SOME ONE ENLIGHTEN US?HOPE FOR THE GOOD.

LT COL(RETD) CK KAUSHIK

Anonymous said...

SG was not available for personal reasons on 27, 28 Mar 2012. Next hearing is 27 Apr 2012.

Francis said...

Dear sir

Thanks a lot for your efforts. If I am familiar with computers, I would have copied all the above comments/PRAISING YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND EFFORT and emailed to all officers both retired and serving.
I request some one to do it.

Francis

Wads said...

Can I get the address, contact No and e mail of Retd Defence Officers Association mentioned who fought the rank pay - to enable me take up the membership...
Wing Commander Wadhwa (Retd)

Anonymous said...

Dear Maj Navdeep,

Great job done.We must all realize what we lost because of Babus and how we are gaining what we lost. Filing cases in highest Court and attending all the hearings for these many years is not a joke and it is not simply attending the case on each hearing but the way the RDOA fed inputs with accurate evidences lead the case to its final stage which was finally decided in our favour. Whatever little or more we do now for these hard efforts put in by our brother officers running this noble organisation “RDOA” would remain small and it will perhaps lead to “togetherness” which makes us stronger.

But this is not an end. Let us all keep a watch as to how the Govt fixes the rank pay for IVth and Vth CPCs and how they effect on VIth CPC. I quote an example here as to in what way, with what cleverness and how smartly the babus have made us to beg them. The rank pay was introduced in IVth CPC. The example is; an amount of Rs 200/- was deducted from the emoluments of a captain and renamed such deduction as rank pay. So called rank pay of Rs 200/- carried on till Dec 1997 though the Vth CPC was implemented wef 01 Jan 1996. It tooK 2 years to fix the pay scales of Vth CPC and arrears were paid in Jan 1998. Till Dec 1997 the so-called rank pay for captain was Rs 200/- and the DA rate in Dec 1997 was 170%. Thus the so-called rank pay of Rs 200/- for a captain fetched DA of Rs 340/- @170%. It thus an evident that the total rank pay a Captain was given immediately before payment of Vth CPC arrears was Rs 540/- per month including DA. But how cleverly and smartly the babus have fixed rank pay in Vth CPC from 01 Jan 1996 was Rs 400/- only as against Rs 540/- which a captain was getting in IVth CPC terms. This has happened in so called rank pay of Majors to Brig. In IVth CPC the officers of Captain to Brig were getting so-called rank pay with DA @ 170%. The rank pay fixed in Vth CPC for every rank was much less than the total rank pay including DA @ 170% which the officers were getting in IVth CPC. Sir the purpose and aim of successive pay commissions are to grant increase and step up pay and not to decrease the pay in any elements.

The rank pay has been discontinued from VIth CPC instead MSP was introduced wef 01 Jan 2006. But the Govt says MSP is a new element of pay to the armed forces. If MSP is a new element of pay then how come the rank pay which was being given (though deducted from emoluments) in last two CPCs was withdrawn? Lets us find some solution for this logic too.

Let us all keep a watch on the way the Govt fixes the rank pay wef 01 Jan 1986. In any case the rank pay fixed with effect from 01 Jan 1996 (Vth CPC) should be above the rank pay plus DA given till Dec 1997 under IVth CPC.

Let us all contribute our share for the noble cause of all of us for whom the RDOA is functioning. Let us all make RDOA as “OUR ORGANISATION” and let us all contribute to run it.

JAI HIND & SATYA MEVA JAYATE