Comments on Indian Military : Service Benefits and Issues: Rank Pay Case

RANK PAY CASE STATUS Though the case was listed fo...

2012-01-20T08:19:18.188+05:30

RANK PAY CASE STATUS
Though the case was listed for 18 Jan 2012 , in the Hon'ble Supreme
Court, it did not get chance to come up for hearing.
Reason: The case which was partially heard yesterday was contd today
and took up the whole day for arguments. At the end of the day all
cases which were scheduled for 18 Jan 2012 were given fresh date of 21
mar 2012.

1.RANK PAY CAPT TO BRIG IS NOW ON 18 JAN,2012. KIN...

2012-01-18T06:58:09.188+05:30

1.RANK PAY CAPT TO BRIG IS NOW ON 18 JAN,2012. KINDLY NOTE MY E MAIL FOR INTIMATION OF ITS PROGRESS
2.MAY I KNOW CASE DETAILS NUMBER.CASE TEXT,JUDGES,ADVOCATE NAME EXTRA FOR SEEING ON WEB SITE
THANKS

wishing a very happy new year to all!!!

2012-01-01T15:06:56.945+05:30

wishing a very happy new year to all!!!

2012-01-01T14:50:15.728+05:30

This comment has been removed by the author.

@Harry,You are absolutely correct.NFU doesn't ...

2011-12-16T16:57:52.511+05:30

@Harry,You are absolutely correct.NFU doesn't confer any addl status, but what can you expect from this gullible offr class which gets befooled easily.If you can be fooled so easily on the larger issue of salary then by civil services, surely you can be fooled much more easily on the issue of status!!Another jewel in this status issue is that some IDSE offr in a particular Comd Hq is asking for type 6 accn (MajGen equvlnt)!!As another offr told me,already Border Rd HQ has started feeling tremors of this issue.As for the info on the subject 'Agony for Def offrs....'all the facts mentioned are correct and amply supported by authority,however,in case of any clarification pls send your query to neerajtripathi75@yahoo.com.

@Sharadh Srivastava Sir, While the argument for ...

2011-12-13T18:44:54.124+05:30

@Sharadh Srivastava

Sir,

While the argument for giving NFFU for Defence Officers is fully justified and understood, what is NOT understood is how a civ officer getting NFFU becomes functionally senior to his superior Defence Officer (who does not get it). NFFU by itself stands for 'NON FUNCTIONAL' Financial Upgradation! Yes undoubtedly we faujis are at a financial loss because of non implementation of NFFU for us but I did not know some amongst us are so ignoramuses that they buy the bait of NFFU and start Sir-ing their erstwhile junior civ colleagues who have now got NFFU (by being part of organised Gp A Service). :(

PS: Not knowing the solution comes later but not knowing the problem itself is our bane!

Post found on a social group of faujis... is this ...

2011-12-13T15:30:46.187+05:30

Post found on a social group of faujis... is this really a true/valid argument... Re-posting portions for Maj Navdeep, comments please!

‎6 CPC: AGONY FOR DEF OFFRS CONTINUES; ISSUE OF NFU (NON FUNCTIONAL UPGRADATION) NEEDS URGENT ATTN - All Defence Offrs, please be informed that Offrs of other services with whom you interact on functional basis, like MES Civ Offrs, GREF Civ Offrs, Offrs of BSF, CRPF ,ITBP, Def Accts(IDAS), Test Audit(IA&AS), Ord Factory Bd etc, will now get the salary and grade pay of Joint Secretary/ Maj Gen (GP Rs 10000/-) in 19 yrs of service, and will draw the pay of Addl Secretary to Govt of India which is equal to a Lt Gen(GP Rs 12000/-) in 32 yrs of service by virtue of their service being Organised Gp A Service. If Def Offrs are not part of Org Gp A service then what are they :They are just ‘Commissioned Officers’. If all the above is correct then who all form part of Org Gp A Service and how Def Offrs call themselves Class 1 offrs; None of the Org Gp A service faces as much stagnation as the Armed Forces offrs because of its pyramidal structure. In fact, on the contrary, most of the Gp A service offrs, as it is, reach the level equal to Addl Secretary due to cylindrical structure of promotion of their service. Only issue for them is,’ in how many years’. In comparison, 97% def offrs retire at the levels below Joint Secretary / Maj Gen. Hence, if the logic of giving NFU to Org Gp A offrs is stagnation, then, no one deserves it more than the Armed Forces Offrs. Since Def Offrs will have to work alongside some of the Organised Gp A Services mentioned, a disparity of this magnitude will lead to functional problems .In some stations, it is already being heard that Civ Offrs have started projecting themselves as senior to top military offr like Stn Cdr. In a specific case a Civ Chief Engineer of MES has started considering himself senior to a COS due to NFU and started saying so all around. Such problems will only increase in future.

any further update on progress of the case.

2011-12-06T02:38:25.081+05:30

any further update on progress of the case.

can anyone update the stays of the case the hearin...

2011-12-04T20:46:28.004+05:30

can anyone update the stays of the case the hearing on 22 Nov 11

Can anyone update not he latest status of the case...

2011-12-04T20:45:52.199+05:30

Can anyone update not he latest status of the case after the hearing on 22 Nov 11

we 'faujis' cant do without getting into o...

2011-12-04T14:14:58.258+05:30

we 'faujis' cant do without getting into one upmanship and same i observe on this blog.The discussions indicate lot of negativity .Why we cant believe the facts brought out by Maj Navdeep,who is sort of an authority on subject (due to nature of job he is doing)?If any thing we require to support views of officers like Maj Navdeep and support the cause.
Col Manoj

It is surprising as to how could government make f...

2011-11-30T16:12:06.149+05:30

It is surprising as to how could government make foolish plea that it involve huge pay cut which government cannot afford or something like that. We are not asking anything new. What we are asking is to return the money cut from our pay unlawfully. That is as good as as asking our DSOP.Can govt say that we cannot pay due to non-availability of money. What happens in civil. If anyone fail to pay back the due despite court orders, that man has to declare himself BANKRUPT and the affect party can realize it by revenue recovery sort of things by attaching govt property and realizing it by auctioning that property. In this case also the government has to declare itself BANKRUPT to deny us the money taken from us.We can auction some part of government property to realize the amount. Maj Naveep will agree with me as to the correctness of my argument

What surprise me is how could the SC allow a Revie...

2011-11-30T16:03:06.829+05:30

What surprise me is how could the SC allow a Review petition in this orders of 8-3-2010 by the Division Bench of SC under Order XLVII Rule 1.A review is allowed only on discovery of new and important matter of evidence which after the exercise of due diligence was not within his knowledge or could not be produced to him at the time when the decree was passed or order made or on account of some mistake or error apparent on the face of the records or any other sufficient reason.

The reasons advanced by government in its affidavit does not fit into this. Of cource our RDSO might have reckoned this.

@COL NR Kurup sir just to get the rank of COL yo...

2011-11-29T12:30:28.472+05:30

@COL NR Kurup
sir just to get the rank of COL you know well that what all nonsense you had face so to reach upto chief level you can well imagine what all he must have done so now you think for juniors he will speak when he expecting some governership after retirement. But off course there were exceptions in the fight for PB4 for LT COL

@Gurcharan Singh Sir, If you don't wa...

2011-11-29T12:26:03.780+05:30

@Gurcharan Singh

Sir,

If you don't want to participate in the debate that is entirely your choice. But I really wished you could counter me with your irrefutable arguments rather than just parroting convenient (to civs) line that 'Rank pay was NOT part of Basic pay for AFs officers'.

BTW Rank Pay issue has been already decided by the hon'ble SC in March 2010 and Govt has merely filed a Review Petition for recall of that Order citing huge pay out (which is nothing but just exploiting a legal loophole to delay the Case for as long as possible).

Anyway let us just wait for some (hopefully) more time uske baad sab doodh ka doodh aur paani ka paani ho jayega and thereafter one of us will have to SHUT UP for good!

My dear major Navdeep, I have gained a lot from y...

2011-11-27T19:11:25.537+05:30

My dear major Navdeep,

I have gained a lot from your Blog.I do not know how to thank you.Your selfless service for the Vetarns is commendable.I only hope you have alerted RDOA on the subject.We all owe a lot to you.MAY GOD BLESS YOU.

sir any change in the status of the rank pay case

2011-11-27T07:10:18.807+05:30

sir any change in the status of the rank pay case

One only wonders till when will the three service ...

2011-11-26T18:28:03.153+05:30

One only wonders till when will the three service chiefs keep quiet and let the injustice be allowed to their commands.

Col P B Singh(Retd)

there is nothing new in this debate . so i dont wa...

2011-11-24T21:55:01.466+05:30

there is nothing new in this debate . so i dont want to repeat the whole story again .

Well said 'Harry' It is evident to all and...

2011-11-24T19:38:23.877+05:30

Well said 'Harry'
It is evident to all and sundry that discrepancies have been created when there would have been none. For what reasons, i do not understand. Why is it that these boos and civilian counterparts are so much against a fauji getting his dues? I cannot fathom any reason. Faujis are the ones who die day in and out, if not in field, counter insurgency areas, then in peace stations by virtue of army acts, rules, discipline, 24x7 working, op alert, aid to civil authority etc etc thinking that we are the saviors of the country when no one that is boos and civilians gives a damn to faujis life. MoD always fights against the faujis, why not for the faujis for whom it is meant?
What a pity for the nation?

Shri Gurucharan Singh ji 1. Firstly, if you pls ...

2011-11-24T18:39:29.478+05:30

Shri Gurucharan Singh ji

1. Firstly, if you pls refer to the Pay scales mentioned by Maj Navdeep you will notice these pertain to 3rd CPC when there was NO concept of RANK PAY. So the equivalence put forward by Maj Navdeep does NOT have any element of Rank Pay. So your argument does not hold. But yes you are absolutely right in stating that Lt Cols are NOT being posted in the vacancy tenable by civ SEs. This is because of peculiar cadre management issue of the Army. After all the organisation requirement of Pyramidal Rank structure runs counter to the interest of career prospects of the vast majority of officers unlike civ Departments where vacancies are upgraded at whims and fancies of the senior bureaucrats/ministers to accommodate there own people and DPCs are just a sham and promote whole batches, save for a few exceptions like vigilance cases etc.

Secondly, 'IF' in the next Pay Commission Grade Pay (a concept taken from erstwhile Rank Pay of AF officers by 6th CPC) is abolished for some reason, do you mean to say that while fixing next revised Basic Pay for all (post 7th CPC), Grade Pay would be just discarded and not taken into account while fixing next revised Basic? Remember Grade Pay is akin to Rank pay on which all other allowances, incl DA are calculated.

Over to you now! :)

pl refer table given in above post and other obser...

2011-11-24T16:22:38.327+05:30

pl refer table given in above post and other observation by maj navdeep .

the points drawn by maj navdeep are bone of contention . the rank pay was a part of pay that is genisis of the this whole case of rank pay . similarly the argument put forwraded by maj navdeep that pay scales including rank pay should be basis equalance between civil and military ranks .

actually there is no taker of this argument in govt or given consideration by succecive pay commisiions .
so in my view there is no major discrepency in the affidevit of govt of india .

in my view ultimately the writ of the govt shall prevail .

the comparative tables given by maj navdeep are creation of his own mind and do not have backing of any govt order past or present .

we have seen the similar arguments umpteens times on this blog .
lt col is equal to SE or dir is a dead issue now for all practical purpose .

i could not find any instance where a lt col is now posted to a post held by a dir or SE on civil side .

let us hope for the best from supreme court .

Dear Navdeep, Hats off to you for all the efforts...

2011-11-23T21:23:01.916+05:30

Dear Navdeep,

Hats off to you for all the efforts. Grateful.

This case in the SC is a 'Rview Petition' ...

2011-11-23T14:58:40.047+05:30

This case in the SC is a 'Rview Petition' filed by GOI. Then how come the GOI counsel, the SG, remains absent three times in arow and the SC still keeps giving TARIKH PE TARIKH. The SC should just throw away this petition if the petitioner himself is not interested in the case. The RDOA counsels should plead this line. I would like to know if there is any precedence where the Petitioner is absent and the SC keeps giving future dates.

The detailed analysis of the scales demonstrates t...

2011-11-23T10:09:30.293+05:30

The detailed analysis of the scales demonstrates that the officers representing AFs in various pay commissions had not done their home work properly and were more bothered about the awards and personal glory.
Surinder Bir
sbir@kecrpg.com