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Saturday, July 18, 2009

Brand New Scale (and consequently pension) for all Lieutenant Generals

The Higher Administrative Grade (HAG) of Lieutenant Generals has been revised.

From the earlier Pay Band-4 + Grade Pay Rs 12,000, all Lt Gens have now been placed in a new scale of Rs 67000 – (3% increment) - 79000 with a jump of Rs 6000 within the scale on promotion to the rank. The corrigendum SAI has already been signed and issued.

Of course, the senior-most 33% of Lt Generals still remain in HAG+ which is an even higher grade (Rs 75500-80000). Lt Generals placed as Army Commanders (and equivalent) / Vice-Chiefs are already in the apex scale of Rs 80000 (fixed).

As a result of this, the pension of pre-2006 retired Lt Generals would be placed @ Rs 36500 basic per month (50% of min of scale + Rs 3000 as notional MSP fitment). Pension of post-2006 retirees shall continue to remain a little higher at 50% of last drawn emoluments.

The decision has been implemented wef 1-1-06.

Don’t be surprised if in the coming days the same scale is also granted to all other HAG officers of the Central Govt. It may be recalled that most of the pre-2006 retired All India Service Officers (who were direct appointees) were from the HAG and if the same scale is implemented for them, they shall be placed at a basic pension of Rs 33500.

35 comments:

Col VT Venkatesh(retd) said...

What is funny about it ?(as mentioned by you in the chat box)

Navdeep / Maj Navdeep Singh said...

@Col Venkatesh

Why do you just want to pick on every little statement and flog it time and again ?

Col VT Venkatesh(Retd) said...

You are really getting funny now.
You make the statement & telling me that I am flogging it.
I did not ask you to make the funny statement.

Navdeep / Maj Navdeep Singh said...

@Col Venkatesh

With so much of experience behind you in the forces and in IT, you should know better that the comments tab is for serious and meaningful discussion while the chat box is for lighter banter.

Comments having no substantial relevance with the main blogpost would not be posted from now on.

Col ASL said...

Hey Guys

Cool it - Not such a serious matter anyway to get worked up on

Col ASL

Harry said...

@ Maj Navdeep

This is certainly good news for Lt Gens esp past retirees!
So if U recall, I had mentioned after RM's reply in parliament that so-called OROP by the Govt is for PBOR and Lt Gens only (since Lt Gens were involved so RM's statement that "OROP for offrs and PBOR will be granted shortly" was not INCORRECT, though it misled people into believing that OROP for ALL OFFRs would be given which is clearly NOT the case).

Sir, any update on High Level Committee under Def Secy for Grade Pay anamoly? (If U don't reply it then I presume there's been ZERO progress on it). :-(

Anonymous said...

Congratulations! This is a real good NEWS albeit for the higher echelons.
Any update on NONFUNCTIONAL FINANCIAL UPGRADATION for Armed Forces, as is applicable for other Group A service officers in Civil?

I D Sharma said...

Dear Navdeep,
Some people take pride in critisizing for no aim in view. Being in legal proffesion you should ignore them.
I would request you to reproduse the refered SAI for record and compelling banks to follow it.
Second query is about Nomination for Arrears.Is it mandatory to produse Nomination in favour of wife who is joint operatore of pension acounts and there is also a Nominee in case of demise of both operatos of the pension account, to claim Arrears on demise of pensioner?
Next, the syndicate Bank at NOIDA is counting only 2/3rd of service in Ranks of an officer and and refusing to give full pension of PB4 to him inspite of his actual physical service of over 29 Years
How to deal with such banks?
Regards. I D

Harry said...

@ Maj Navdeep

Sir, Pls post link to the amended SAI for HAG scale for Lt Gens.

Thanks!

digvijay said...

Good news for Lt Gen , what about the rest of the officers ? Any one for a gamble 1:10, "NO" from my side .Any takers ?
2.this is going off the topic but I want the readers to know that I am happy NDTV is covering 10 years of Kargil conflict, The correspondants did'nt get killed & want to share their experience with the country folks of what the Army faced & did .I also know it does not matter to many but me It was a great event, event that fills my chati with pride.

Harry said...

@Maj Navdeep

Sir, You said, " ..the pension of pre-2006 retired Lt Generals would be placed @ Rs 36500 basic per month (50% of min of scale + Rs 3000 as notional MSP fitment). Pension of post-2006 retirees shall continue to remain a little higher at 50% of last drawn emoluments."

But Lt Gen (Emeritus) Raj Kadyan, PVSM, AVSM, VSM says,"On 16 July 2009 the Government have issued an amendment to SAI/2/08 and entries at Ser 8 of the Table in Para 4 (a) (i) have been replaced by new entries. A new pay band HAG “Rs 67000 – (annual increment @ 3%) – 79000” has been created. There is a rider “The benefit of MSP, notional, in pay fixation will be given to existing Lt Generals.” Pre-2006 Lt Gens would now get a pension of Rs 33500 pm."

So is it Rs 36500 pm or 33500 pm finally?

BTW, I AM NOT A LT GEN (Not as yet!!) :-(

Navdeep / Maj Navdeep Singh said...

@Harry

Good question.

It is going to be Rs 36500 basic per month.

Pension for pre-06 retirees is to be calculated with the following formula :

50% of (min of scale + Grade Pay + MSP)

When the Pay Com recommendations were implemented, Major Generals and Lieut Generals were at a disadvantage vis-a-vis junior ranks since MSP was not admissible to Officers above Brig.

As a result, this was the posn :

Colonels were granted a basic pension of 26050
Brigs were granted 26150
Major Generals were granted 23700, and
Lieut Generals were granted 24700

as per the above formula.

Hence, while serving Major Generals and above were granted an MSP fitment @ 6000 within their scales on promotion, the said fitment was not being taken into account for pension.

To tide over this anomaly, the Govt took a conscious decision of adding Rs 3000 (i.e, 50% of MSP) as a fitment of MSP into the pension of Maj Gens and Lt Gens and their pensions were increased to 26700 and 27700 respectively since as it is Rs 6000 was already notionally available as pay in the scales of Maj Gens and Lt Gens.

Hence now, while 50% of the new scale shall be 33500, Rs 3000 would be added into the pensions of Lt Gens as a notional fitment on account of MSP as already decided. The earlier decision of the govt in this regard is available somewhere as a scrib file on the blog :-) .

Rest assured, the pension of pre-06 Lt Gens would be 36500 and not 33500 unless the Govt decides to roll back or back-out on their already issued orders and established logic.

Ramani said...

well, I am Glad That The Lt Gen Rank has been given the respect it deserves.it is a reflection on all of us.
hope now, that the other anomalies will be removed.

Harry said...

@ Maj Navdeep

1. Sir,thanks for putting me wiser, so soon!

2. Is it not ironic that MSP gets added into basic pay upon promotion from Brig upwards thus constituting new Basic or simply put Old basic + MSP = New Basic for Gen offrs. It means 3% annual increment also is de facto applicable on MSP for them. Mind you MSP was NOT SUPPOSED to be given to them in first place!! But now because of this decision they enjoy double benefit (not implying to deny it to them,though) but why not give its benefit to everybody? :-(

kewal malhotra said...

Iam not sure if this is the right placeto raise this querry here
if you could elucidate it will be agreat help
"i believe pension of those who proceded on prematured retirement to be prmanently absorbed in PSUs with 100% commutation has been restored fully(100%)after 15 years of retirement.
if so pse provide alink to the Govt letter.so far 43% pen was restored with full dearness benifits on basic pen."
thanks

Anonymous said...

Maj Navdeep,
Any hope of placing MNS Lt Cols also in PB-4 ?
What happened to the ACP for MNS Officers (SPC Report Para 2.3.21) up to Lt Col rank ?

Col VT^ Venkatesh(Retd) said...

@Maj Navdeep
AF pay (all ranks) has become a very serious issue & hence calling Lt Gen's pay as funny by a person prefixing his name with an Army rank & that too by a practicing lawyer is not a funny issue at all.This reveals your sensitivity to the issue while you claim to champion the cause of the Indian military
All your answers are only skirting the main issue of parity.
It is totally your right to publish the post or not.How ever don't expect others not to express their feelings by taking cover behind freedom of expression.
I also wonder who is "paininthass" in your chat box.

Navdeep / Maj Navdeep Singh said...

@Col Venkatesh

Please vent your negative emotions some place else. You do not have a license to pass personal slants just because the moderator is providing you with an opportunity to post your comments in an uninhibited manner.

Secondly, learn to respect difference of opinion. I respect it to the hilt and it would be legitimate for others to expect it from you.

Yes to put the record straight, the pay hike of Lt Gens is 'funny' since we were expecting to hear an announcement for PBOR first - which was the issue in the first place, but the first announcement has started for the top rank of the military, which was not even sought but provided to us suo-moto. Please do not overinterpret comments or pass judgements.

Your quote : "This reveals your sensitivity to the issue while you claim to champion the cause of the Indian military"

I despise claims and do not claim anything. I'm sorry you have misread.


Thanks

Navdeep

Harry said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Harry said...

@ Maj Navdeep

Sir, two points:-

1. As per Chairman IESM..

"Dear Colleagues,
There have been some queries on the revised pension of Lt Gens as reported in the 17 Jul sitrep. It is clarified that the pension for pre 2006 Lt Gens would be Rs 67000÷2=33500. For calculation of pension, there is no Grade Pay or MSP to be added to the figure of Rs 67000/-, which is the base of the new pay band for this rank. This Rs 67000 – 79000 pay band would also apply to Additional Secretaries in the IAS. Possibly this might have been the reason for it to be announced with speed; within 24 hours of its clearance by the Ministry of Finance, Department of Expenditure.
Best regards,
Lt Gen (Emeritus) Raj Kadyan, PVSM, AVSM, VSM
Chairman IESM

2. A Gen offr serves as Lt Gen for max of 3 years (may be a few more months in odd cases) but see the span of newly notified HAG scale, from Rs 67000 to Rs 79000. It is only after considering a raise of Rs 6000 due to so-called notional MSP component (wonder whats notional about it, its as good as BASIC!) the scale works out to a more appropriate span of 73000 to 79000 (but here a third annual increment of 3% will breach upper limit of Rs 79000, but then hopefully by then the Gen offr would get into HAG+ scale! Incidently now HAG+ scale i.e 75500-80000, suddenly, seems to have lost its sheen!!). May be now the-powers-that-be would revise Apex scale from 80000 fixed to 85000 fixed!! I won't be surprised if that happens. :-)

PS:- No marks for guessing who it is going to benefit and why its been announced so soon when everybody was expecting improved pension for PBORs!!

Ajit said...

@Harry

Really you should be awarded a Doctorate for your research on Lt Gen pensions and blogs which has been going on for so looooong...

I am sure you must be nearly there given this enormous interest :-)

Ajit said...

@Harry

BTW - it was a complimentary comment as I find you have enormous knowledge and interest on Lt Gen pensions!

ASK said...

Under the garb of giving higher scale to left over Lt Gens(which incidently was not demanded by Services,except as part of OROP for all ranks)the IAS baboos have actually given this extraordinary pay scale to ALL IAS retirees of ALL vintage,so virtually ALL IAS babus are now getting OROP.It is a clasic case of manipulation & bending the rules for financial gains.It is unbelievable that the Cabinate(particularly FM,RM,Mr Prithivi R Choahan& the PM etc) could not see thru this trick before according approval. If PB's in CPC can be tinkered with by having spl pay scales for chosen few then why not dispence with them altogather & have pay scale for each rank?Equality for all must be restored,being fundamental right.
The Parliament & Hon'able SC must sou-moto intervene into such matters to stop such blatant misuse of authority by all concerned.

Ashok said...

i only wish to highlight that OROP for Lt Gens has still not been sanctioned. It is only a new pay scale that has been created. Hence, to take a view that OROP has been approved for the rank of Lt Gen as is evident from some of the comments posted on this blog may not be proper.

VNatarajan,President, Pensioners' Forum, Chennai said...

Dear All
Is a similar scale as that of Lt Gens has been worked out for Maj Gens and ANNOUNCED/ISSUED? or IT is being delayed due to Court formalities? If latter is the reason and a Court time-frame exists, it is obvious the scale of Lt Gen has to be CLEARED first - even before the PBOR (already announced in EFFECT in PARLIAMENT)- as otherwise the Maj Gens would apparently draw a pension higher than the Lt Gens (more than 27700). May be I am wrong! Pl correct if so!

Penmil said...

@V Natarajan 4:15 PM
Probably you are right in guessing the reason for raising the pay scales of Lt Gen first, before revising the pensions of Pre 1996
Maj Gen.
The minimum pension of a MajGen(after bringing the pay notionally at par with a serving Maj Gen) could be 50% of 65400(Brig at the max of his pre revised scale and promoted just after 6 CPC implementation), where as the minimum pension of a Pre 2006 Lt Gen could be 27700 or 28030.
A big anomoly would have taken birth.
Thanks for pointing at an interesting angle.

Penmil said...

@ V Natarajan 4:15 PM

Probablyyou are right in guessing the reason for raising the pay scales of Lt Gen first, before revising the pensions of Pre 1996 Maj Gen. .
The minimum pension of a MajGen(after bringing the pay notionally at par with a serving Maj Gen) could be 50% of 65400(Brig at the max of his pre revised scale and promoted just after 6 CPC implementation), where as the minimum pension of a Pre 2006 Lt Gen could be 27700 or 28030.
A big anomoly would have taken birth.

Ashok said...

I request Navdeep to kindly post the corrigendum SAI.

Anonymous said...

All above Major and PBORs benefit by afterthought/ hindsight and medals are being retrieved from the President. What happened to OROP to Major, Lieutenant and S/ Lieutenanat
Anon

Anonymous said...

"Don’t be surprised if in the coming days the same scale is also granted to all other HAG officers of the Central Govt."

Why should we be so possesssive about benefits to be showered on armed forces only? The decision to place all HAG officers in HAG scale applies to both i.e. Armed forces as well as Civil Services. RPRs/SAIs to place HAG officers in new pay band have already been amended on 16 Jul through gazette notification well before this post.

Rajababu said...

well well well, Harry gud to see u in action from the previous blog at staff corner. How do u get the time to research such issues. we dont have the time to bother about our own pay calculations let alone others. any way hats off to u and Navdeep. Its also interesting to note that the senior lots are grabbing all thats possible leaving the men only "bread crumbs" and the baboos are only becoming fatter by the day.

Its also surprising to note that when there are manpower cuts in all the services how come that the baboos are bloating away to glory at taxpayers expense?? Can navdeep throw some light on it??

Col VT Venkatesh. u have shown the typical traits of a senior officer out to S**** ur own bretheren. No wonder services are in shit and in receiving condition today. Pse excuse me i could'nt bear the taunts being posted.

Anonymous said...

I was delighted to see your blog dear navdeep.
God Bless.Keep it up
an oldie

subra said...

Every pay commission tries to reduce the number of scales.
Now we have two scales 67000-79000 and 75000-80000 at the top.
Will it not be more sensible to have one scale 67000-80000 and call it pay band V ?! Then we could have put HAG and HAG+ cadres in that scale.

Anonymous said...

Dear Navdeep,

What has happened to the most urgent of SCPC anomalies - "the grade pay of Capts to Brigs"? That was the first anomaly. Remember, the CNS saying its about status and all that. There were rumours about a High Powered Committee being formed?
Hope it doesn'nt result in "death by Committee"!

nvs said...

Dear Maj Navdeep Singh,
I am writing on behalf of Lt Col (Retd) Nirmala Parmar whose husband was Late AS Parmar who retired on 01May 96. Sadlyhe expired on 31 Dec08. His pension has not been revised as per your blog of 18 Jul 09. For want of the authority for the revision of pension to Rs 36500/- wef 01Jan06 his pension has not been evised accordingly the family pension. I would be much grateful if you could send me the authority I can help her as she is a family friend who has served with my wife for two tenures. My email id is nvs_mani04@rediffmail.com. Thanks in advance.
Lt Col NVS Mani