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Tuesday, April 15, 2008

IAS Officers to get the payscale of Major General in 14 years of service

In yet another silent move aimed at benefitting officers of the IAS, the Deptt of Personnel and Training (DoPT) has reduced the time frame for elevation to the Super-Time Scale (erstwhile Rs 18,300 - 22,400 / new 37,200 - 67,000 scale - equivalent to a Maj Gen's scale) from the earlier 16 years to 14 years for IAS officers.

This basically means that an IAS officer would be granted the pay-scale of a Maj Gen of the Army after merely 14 years of service. While this does not mean that an IAS officer with 14 years of service becomes equivalent in status to a Maj Gen, since only those IAS officers in the super time scale who are empanelled and holding posts of Joint Secy to Govt of India can be equated with a Maj Gen, still the monetary package granted to IAS officers with 14 years of service would be the same as Major Generals.

Hence the pay of an Army Officer with 33 years of service is now linked to the pay of an IAS officer with 14 years. What a tragedy !!!

One more thing that requires clarification is that many a times, civil officers in the Jt Secy GoI pay scale of Rs 18,400 - 22,400 claim an equation with Maj Generals. This is incorrect since according to the Warrant of Precedence (WoP-1979) only those officers of this pay scale can claim such equation who are actually empanelled and are holding the appointment of Jt Secy to Govt of India. Similarly, civil officers holding the pay scale of Rs 26,000 fixed have been claiming equation with GOsC-in-C and Vice Chiefs (Article 23 of WoP), but only those officers can claim equation to Army Cdrs and Vice Chiefs who are placed as Secy to GoI (including Ex-officio) and not others. An example would be the Chief Secretary of a State who is also in the payscale of Rs 26,000 fixed - he or she is equated with an Army Cdr / Vice Chief (Article 23) only when within own state. Outside his / her State, a Chief Secy is listed at Article 25 below even a Lt Gen who is on Article 24.


PK Jhamb said...

Certainly a tragedy!
IAS arenot so concerned with the a thing like 'rank'. Internally they recognise their interse seniority based on their length of service and the appointment.
Why can't we too do away with our "rank"?
Adapt such a contraption to recognise years of service put in???

Anonymous said...

Why crib, competete? Most of you dared not to study beyond Class XII and opted NDA. And now have a crib against IAS, CES, MES etc

Anonymous said...

Yes why not, can even one col. can qualify the AIS/ IFS exame..? what are the qalification of your Lt. col. or even col. is 10 +, wy you are so crry... it on. you have to see fist educational qalification (ii) nature of responsibility (ii) dealing with India policy decesion..
Can any one give actual amount how a Lt. Col is going to cost with Gov. of India, it can not be ... they are just enjying,, how many solder they got for them. self or wife what about food wine they got , what about traspot... if you look all this they cost got above secretary who hav mearly have oficial car..?
90% of officers are just enjoying lik a civilian , some of them have even not see any borer of India..? forget about war... pl. considr all and have a through analysis then compare with civil...cost to cost and demand as per with.

regards all

Unknown said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Unknown said...

Firstly, let’s clarify this once and for all... NDA/ IMA/ OTA is not a sanctuary of refuge for any coward (either academically or metaphorically).

It so happens, that the Army needs its bunch of talent with a very young age profile and NDA meets that criterion very well. Its not that the Indian Armed Forces are alone in pursuing this route to get the right material suitable for the job that the services entail. USA, UK, Australia, France and numerous other developed/ developing countries follow the policy to catch them young.

Now, I really cannot fathom the fact that all of them have some bunch of academically challenged people safeguarding their borders/ citizens both internally (that’s the new role of the Army these days) and externally.

Army Officers do compete in an open UPSC conducted examination just like their IAS/ any other civil services counterpart, the only difference being this examination takes place at Class 12th level. They all do go on to pursue Graduation at NDA and then depending upon the stream/ services also complete their Post Graduation in their specific role/ specialty.

Also, to quell further doubts on the academic competencies of Army officers; most of them are more aware, learned and well read then many of the officers from the various arms of the Central/ State Govt's. They not only pursue their professional courses but also go on to acquire additional civilian qualifications in the intervening years of their service.

To further clarify the issue, these days any good B- school of repute in India and abroad has a presence of atleast 5-6 Army officers who may happen to be ex- NDAs/ IMAs/ OTAs and Sir, this is not courtesy of some reserved seats for them in these institutions. They compete in exams like CAT/ GMAT and make it through sheer dint of hardwork.

But for the Government's stance of not letting officers quit the service (their is a deluge of officers wanting to quit the service due to the sheer apathy that this country and its citizens heap on them, there is however a virtual embargo on Resignations/ Premature Retirement in all the three services), you would find many more of these officers in roles that would suit your definition and sensibilities of “Worthy” services.

As for parties, wines, rations etc… Sir, you may be pleasantly surprised but all these parties are infact paid for by the officers themselves through their monthly salaries. The Govt of India does not have any provisions for hosting parties through the tax payer’s money. The wine consumed by officers is their own (The Govt only provides for a Rum allowance to the Jawans at a princely sum of Rs 60/- per month). Only officers from the rank of Brigadiers onwards are authorized to a Hospitality Allowance of Rs 1000/-per month (it’s under revision under the VIth Pay Commission)- that too is an allowance which is common to all officers of a certain grade across all branches/ services of the Govt of India.
Contrary to the popular misconception, Army officers are only provided for rations for a single individual (self) only. The scales of the rations do not run the households of the officers as is widely believed by many.
Coming on to the question of-“Running the country and taking policy decisions” as one of the comments made on this blog is concerned.
Do you even understand the meaning of this question and even if you do, then, do you want that to happen? To put it simply, do you want the Army to take policy decisions and run this country like it does in Pakistan or many other countries around the world?
In a democracy, the Army is an instrument of the State policy and it’s the responsibility of the man donning the uniform to ensure that the policy is implemented in the letter and spirit. I hope you will agree that the Indian Army has done that in all these years even if it is at the cost of thousands of lives of its brave soldiers.
It’s fairly common these days to bear testimony to instances of the civilian Govt and its officials (D.M.’s, Municipal authorities, Police, Forest, civil aviation, electricity, railways) asking the Army to undertake jobs that are originally theirs. Look at Kashmir, Gujjar agitation, floods, religious yatras, anti- poaching operations, Army running railways, electric stations, telephone exchanges, airports during agitation/ strikes/ dharnas by Unions/ Political parties etc. When all the concerned authorities/ mechanisms have failed to deliver to this country and its people, the Army always has. Things have come to such a pass that the Army is these days also called to take out stranded children, cattle from broken sewer lines/ wells on primetime T.V, which can/ should be done by the Municipal/ Fire Dept/ Health authorities.
Is the Army, the panacea of all the ills plaguing this country today?
Imagine, if the Army was to even once fail, something that is a recurring feature with all other myriad variety of agencies of the Govt to do the task entrusted to it. What would be the resultant situation?

Best Regards,
Saurabh Singh

Anonymous said...

why mr.saurabh singh chooses not to refer to the canteen facilities enjoyed by the army men is anybody's guess. any insider will tell you how much ration an army men gets. these things are no more secrets, gentlemen.

the liqour consumed durig the parties may be the army men's own. but we all know that the price the armymen pay for the wine is much lower than what we all other indians pay.

it is not a secret anymore that comparable, if not more, number of policemen die every year in discharge of duties than the defence personnel. the bogie of armymen fighting in borders is blunted by the fact that there are significant number of para military forces doing the same job but with far lesser previliges.

a police constable fighting the naxals in andhra and orissa do not get any of the previliges like rank pay, canteen separated family accommodation etc and etc enjoyed by the defence personnel. the risk involved is comparable.

agreed teh army has done a great job in teh prince episode. but what the army should also realise is that the civil departments like police and fire do rescue operations regularly but dont bask in the glory of stray achievements. army is called for difficult operations because often the civilian departments lack equipment and manpower.

just like a former defence minister had asked the civil servants to visit kargil, someone must ask the defence officers to visit the civilian offices to have a first hand feel of the amount of work civilian officers do.

as Mr.saurabh singh rightly pointed out, armed forces are instrument of the state. so why brag about fulfilling their responsibilities towards the state. the army is not doing any duty beyond their brief in fighting riots, strike etc. the criminal procedure code clearly empowers the executive magistrates to take the services of the armed forces for such duties.

everyone who is in the border deserves a compensatory allowance, whether it be paramilitary forces or defence foces. but why should a colonel sitting in the safe environs of meerut Cantt or jhansi cantt and plays golf, has no independant functions to perform or does not take a single decision independantly be allowed to ride piggy back on the colonel or DIG of paramilitary fores who are slugging it out in the border areas or other difficult areas?

Anonymous said...

hi mr anonymous

as u seem to be very fond of army bashing and find that that an army job is a 'PLUM' one, then why may i ask have u not joined it? CHICKENED OUT?!!! or as u may like to put it "DIDNT WANT THE GOOD LIFE?!!!!'
ask the common man and u will realize that the only organisation that can be trusted in this country is the army( and some paramilitary forces).
dont write about something u dont know. a civilian may be hardworking no doubt but there is no threat of life. do u seriously think that an IAS officer deserves six additional increments due to 'frequent transfers and small place postings' cmon! man! tell that to the kids!! i have had eight transfers in 16 years across the country. atleast an IAS officer gets a bungalow and car wherever he goes!! we have to wait our turn for the house!!
have a heart!! if u cant do anything for ur country and the people who are defending u - atleast keep quiet. dont try to malign others.

what edu qualifications ur talking of outside? most of the service officers are post grads with many of them holding a mgt degree.
lastly, when u voice such serious concerns about a premier orgn of the country atleast have the spunk to have a name!!!

Anonymous said...

Dear Mr.Saurabh Singh,

Your arguments carry weight. However to know the various levels in the military vis a vis the Civilians, can you provide a table, and the pay scales in the 5th and 4 th CPC.

Anonymous said...

Dear Mr Saurabh Singh

Your arguments carry weight. However to know the various levels in the military vis a vis the civilians, can you give a table, along with the pay scales as per 4 CPC, 5 CPC and 6 CPC.

Anonymous said...

Dear Mr Saurabh Singh

Your arguments carry weight. However to know the various levels in the military vis a vis the civilians, can you give a table, along with the pay scales as per 4 CPC, 5 CPC and 6 CPC.

AkkiDa said...

Dear anonymous,

You can see and feel the stature of any defence officer and compare it with any other service officer when they are on TV.
See the way one army man speaks and have a look at his gracious body language and have look at the plumpy babu be it a secretary or jt sec .
See the language they use and their views.
You will come to know the difference. And also ask some independent viewers to give their views also. You will die in shame.
I think that's enough no further argument..


Anonymous said...

ha ha, since when is the performance being evaluated by language and body language? every one agrees with you when you say that defence officers are better built, better spoken and more stylish. but what is required ultimately is the quality of work and output.

as an independent observer, i have seen plump babus and equally plump defence officers. i have seen babus speak nonsense and have never found defence officers make sense in anything they speak but golf.

but its really funny that two wings of the same government hurl mud at each other. good entertainment for public(me).

grow up guys. compete with us in private sector. be men and not complaining like saas bahu characters. for me none of you inspire any confidence.

i do die in shame, on hearing nonsense whether from civilian or defence officers. some have pot bellies and others lack brains.

Anonymous said...

well every honest officer/worker contributes for country........, doesnt matter in army or civil services. We all have to work hard to make our nation strong. I agree that private sector people too contribute a lot for development.

Harvard University

Anonymous said...

IAS and Army, there is just no comparison. If one leaves everything aside and just looks at the powers the army has been teusted with the constitution one would get an answer. The Defence services are the only agencies in India to have been trusted with all the three tasks of pnishing a person a criminal. ie. Investigation, Delivering justice and executing the punishment, which are given to three different bodies in the civilian set up.

So Mr. Annonymous who thinks Armymen are uneducated now knows that every army officer is also a trained Lawyer and Judge and can be asked to officiate as one if required.

Also army has a complete parallel set up including a telephone system spanning the whole country, Engineering workshops, hospitals etc. I would request mr. annonymous to visit any Military hospital and compare both the pressure and the quality of service offered to any civilian govt. hospital before making these judgements.

Believe it or not Army is the only surviving working insttution of this country. Guess why? because there are no IASses in army!

Ayush Nagpal

Anonymous said...

i was searching some stuff about the impact of 6th pay commission on indian economy when i came across this blog.its for my civil services exam.you see google search can give weird results sometime.anyway i have gone through the whole blog and ............what left me stunned is the comparison.both parties would accept that in ours or any democracy politicians are the most privileged. people often take pride in cursing them and declaring them inefficient.but they should bear in mind they got us freedom and they are running this country now.the whole constitution was designed by earlier politicians and now is being amended by current politicians.its only a matter of time when no one would be questioning current politicians in near future for their work done in the present time.the most sacred work in a democracy is being done by politicians and if they are fools,dishonest and whatever then people of india must take a look at themselves.they are choosing them.i think a politicians work is the most important work in the whole administration of the country.there workload is mostly shared by so called fat babus(ias).they are only next to them.i love army too but they take too much pride in their work. as far as honesty is concerned it is an individual's characteristic not of any agency's or institution's.civil servants have to live in the society and it is the society that designs them.i may sound idealistic but it is so.army is doing there job and an ias or any other man is doing theirs and they are getting the reward attatched with that.no body is compelling any one to join ias or defence.its a matter of choice.moreover civil services exam is by far superior ...yeah you heard me right superior and challenging than any other competitive exam in the world.we without any doubt need better people in the defence but we need the best in civil services.if you are having a doubt about the efficiency of fat ias then you should ask those mnc's which are hiring them on a 100 times higher salary.also after having the highest defence budget we are having blasts all over the country and an uncontrolled neighbour.i am not being critique of defence but what was that and if death toll indicates the work done by an organization then defence is almost inactive after kargill.what to do about this pseudo unemployment.when defence personnel are not having a war or a war like situation then perhaps they should ask for only a fraction of their salary just to meet their needs, being such a gentleman i think.you know best thing in this pay commission was the hike in teacher's salary.they deserve the most.they are designing what future indians will think and believe so we need most educated there not in the army.moreover vey small section of ias aspirants are concerned about this whole thing.you see i think people who are in ias are like us.who chose to be an ias just to usher significant changes that will ensure a decent standard of living for everyone and a good hdi for our country.where no one would be complainting about his salary.you know,desire is just to make ourself burn till the remotest part of india has the light.those privileged enough to have electricity,computer,internet and spare time should not waste these in the meaningless blogging.what change its gonna bring?

PAVAN said...

Interesting comments.

Some points from my side.

1. Equity of pay scales and positions -- Why should the payscales of one department of Inda (Civil services) be increased more that other department (Armed forces) --- Is it because the pay commission consists of Civil servants.

2. Qualifications - A armed forces manager (Major, Lt. Col, Col. Brig, etc) is entrusted with more resources and more destructive power than a Civil Servant on any given day. So are the constituional authorities (includes IAS) fools to do so to a non qualified individual. Please think

3. An IAS officer is supposed to be a good administrator. An armed forces person (be it police or paramilitary also) is supposed to be a good leader. Take your pick of the persons you want in your organization

4. Retired civil servants are recruited by private companies for their network of relationships and their administrative experience. Most qualified civil servants are with average intellect but hardworking nature.

Please think

Anonymous said...

No doubt many military officer will fail in Civil Examination if so taken, Similarly many IAS Officers will fail in services Selection Boards and Defence Examinations for Army. this is not a parameter for judging excellence. If IAS takes credit for their excellence in administration in india; they have to shoulder the discredit of their mess made by them in day to day administration in civil society. Whether, a doctor, an engineer, a military officer or an IAS are the product of same education system and knowledge doing a specific equivelant role in society and should be entitled to similar recognition in matter of at least class I officer cadre of the government in a domecratic India. Because each such government servant will differ in nature of duties and work culture. we are thus creating caste system in civil society by this differiancial system of separate pay scale and career progression system for above catery of government class I services.

Able Lawrence said...

An army officer gets commissioned at the age of ~21 yrs and if he has come in though NDA/NAVAC has had his entire training paid for by govt with stipend. On the other hand, a civil service (or other service) person joins service only at an older age. One cannot have an exact year by year match between services.
For example a teacher in AIIMS or IIT or IIM joins service as an Asst Professor in his thirties. One has to consider the qualifications the person had "before" joining service. If the govt trains them after joining service, it is paid for by govt.
What is needed is better horizontal mobility within as well and to and from different services

Raj said...

I happen to come to this blog by searching for something else.. but i have the following points for your consideration.

1. Come on, in todays world, even when the required qualification is 10 or 12, you find almost everybody with a degree, that is what required to be IAS, etc. So what if somebody tells, why should they be paid more when the qualification is just a degree.. so there is no logic in comparing minimum required qualification.

2. if at all, the IAS could get paid more, it is because they are the most politically affiliated government servants (may be not their mistake) in the country and are hand in glove with the activities of the politicians..

3. it is a clear case of IAS lobby using their proximity to powers that be. why should the politicians give one class of officers more pay when compared to others without any benefit to them?

4. the armed forces to see to it that they are appropriately represented atleast in the next pay commission to ensure that these things do not happen again..

It is a very sorry state of affairs but only proper representation of all groups in the pay commission can rectify such anamolies...

Anonymous said...

Good lord, I thought IAS stood for Indian Administrative Service but the way the behave makes a common man like me feel that it stands for INDIAN ARAMDAYAK SERVICE service rather than administrative service,while it is agreed that it takes lot of studying and effort to make it to IAS or the civil services but most of the people are either entering it to make or mint lots of money or to get lots of Dowry for which their TAG of IAS comes pretty handy,baring very few IAS officers like TN Sheshan,MS Gill we dont get to hear much of them ,on the other hand can you forget the contributions of Gen Thimmaya,Gen bhagat,Maj Somnath Sharma THE SAVIOUR OF KASHMIR,well Im sure Field Marshall Manekshaw needs no introduction well if anonymous does not know it well he was the man responsible for BANGLADESH VICTORY yadd kar ke anonymous tere IAS exam me kaam aayega.Ummmm yes my apologies yes we do get to hear lot about IAS officers but in some or the other scam,yes some scams have creped into the armed forces too but just compare if there are 200 IAS officers involved in various scams there will be hardly one of an Army Officer who would be involved in such kind of scam, that too it is dealt with an exemplary Public punishment.Is a corrupt IAS officer dealt with so promptly,well I have my doubts.
OK now chew on this How many of you have visited Jammu and kashmir Or any North Eastern State,well im sure atleast Mr Anonymous has surely not visited,because if he had then he would had some sense what is he posting on the net,something known as the Government machinery for which these BABUS are responsible,in states like J&K and North East it is totally defunked,and guess who is looking after the whole administration YOURS TRULY THE MIGHTY INDIAN ARMY,most of the senior IAS officers either get a cozy posting or manage to get out to the central cadre at Delhi taking advantage of their political connections,and those who are junior and cant manage it dont dare to come out of their cozy ROOMS this is a first hand experience no hearsay,need proof J&K and north eastern states are the only states where the COLLECTORS/DISTRICT MAGISTRATES who are always IAS officers elsewhere,70 percent of these posts in the states mentioned above are manned by PCS/STATE CIVIL SERVICES OFFICER reason??????shortage of IASSES??? have you ever heard of it?probably this the only service which is 100 percent subscribed,so what could be the reason,welll ummmm BABU ji wants to save his life to contribute to the progess of rest of the INDIA and well leave Dangerous places like these to Army guy to look after,well a tribute to their ADMINISTRATIVE SKILLS.

Anonymous said...

Hi!!! Lakhs of people apply for the IAS. The Army suffers a shortage of Officers and a good many of them would like to leave. It follows - IAS is indeed Indian Aramdayak Service where everyone would like to be AND Soldiering is a tough profession that extracts only the very best. What other conclusion can be drawn?

Anonymous said...

Further to my earlier comment beginning with Hi!!!!! Note carefully that if Roles were switched, Army officers will quickly better the IAS officers in their jobs while the IAS officers - ALL OF THEM - will be found most inept in meeting the challenges of Soldiering and badly wanting in most depts..

Unknown said...

everyone here is just comparing both the depts and posting comments according to there personnel choice.
if you really go beyond these depts you will find that each dept is having a specific aim or to be more precise a duty to accomplish.
it is not the question of salary but the work they do definitely.

my father is also in army but it doesn't mean that i should always praise his dept without thinking whether it is right or wrong.

An IAS cannot protect the border as an army personnel can not prepare the budget for the country .
we should respect the work not the rank they enjoy.
if an ias is doing his duty according to the rules and at the same time an army personnel is also performing his task then in my opinion both are contributing to the country.
APPROXIMATELY SAME NO OF VACANCIES ARE THERE FOR IAS.BUT IT DOESN'T MeAN THAT the rest of the population can not contribute to the country.
IF A MAN IS WALKING BY THE LEFT SIDE OF THE ROAD AND IS NOT SPITTING at the road then,also he is contributing to the nation.
perform your duty only .the country will be on a safer side.

sanjay yadav.

siddharth juyal said...

1. This nation is progressing so slow because of the simple fact that parents teach their children beta ek bar civil service mein nikal ja jindagi sawar jayegee which obviously points to the sheepish security yearning mentality we have unparalleled in the world. Contrast is Israelis.
2. So we need to respect people who do well in their profession and not admire those who did well getting into their profession.
3. Going by this and talking about government parlance their should not be any quota system that this particular lot of service is better than other because it is just impossible to compare fields.
4. So let us focus that all cadres to be treated alike and healthy professional competition within the cadre to give out best performers rather than promote a few branded people from a particular service.
5. When this shall dawn then automatically will come the parity in pay for all and this non sense of this better than that and mud slinging will stop.
6. Suggestion let toppers in Civil Service exam go to all services in equal proportion to contribute their brilliant minds for sake of all cadres rather than they opting for IAS/IPS/IFS etc. After they are not sitting in this exam for their own development but for contributing to the nation. Hence let nation distribute them equally to get the best out of them. calibre wise

Abhishek Singh Ujjain said...

talking about corruption it depends from person to person......u cant say dat all ias offcrs r corrupt n army officers r nt.

both d services r prestigious and u cant compare it.....
talking about level of difficulty civil services is the toughest exam in d world but becoming an army officer is not cakewalk for every1......that is why there is large no. of dropouts from nda every year n reason behind is dat the training is very tough.
i am sure dat an IAS officer wont able to survive even a day in IMA or NDA.

Anonymous said...

It is amusing to note the lack of awareness and independent thinking in the comments to this post.
First off, I am not a big fan of the pay scale revision. Nobody can say that it is not biased towards the IAS, and for no good reason too.
However, I find issue with the stereotypical description of pot-bellied babus and incompetent administrators. I certainly fall in the same category, being a deeply entrenched babu now serving at the Centre! That apart, I can attest to the fact that not all officers are equally incompetent. I have worked with and know about several high calibre officers who are ready to do almost anything for the country.
I find issue with the allegation that civilians who are not in the army simply chickened out. This is ridiculous considering that during selection, the army does not judge the 'poultry farm aptitude' of young aspirants. I personally know numerous IAS officers who could give the best cadets a run for their money when it comes to being 'ballsy'.
Another childish observation was about the way we babus speak. I am shocked to note the stupidity of that comment, considering the fact that almost all secretary level babus, and others who get time on the airwaves, speak excellently, and no self respecting critic can claim them to be linguistically incompetent.
Finally, it is indeed a fact that administration is not a cakewalk. It is as strenuous as managing the borders. So, loose talk about swapping roles deserves to be lambasted.
I agree that the army has many more upright officers than the IAS. BUt, and this fact is undeniable, joining the defence forces is not the ultimate test of one's patriotism. Any citizen, in whatever walk of life, can any day choose to be more or less patriotic than any jawan manning our borders.

JADAUN said...

JADAUN said....
Respected friends, today we are growing strength by strength, but it is really very sad that somebody is speaking about 'golf' but not about the snow bitten bodies of armymen, 'CSD LIQUOR' but not about the 'SIACHEN GLACIER protected by armymen','quality of life in army' but not about the brave widows n the children of armymen, it is very said Mr. Anonimous and shameful too that we dont know the cost of our freedom that is being paid by this armyman by giving his life. Please dont get confuse i m not an armyman but i m a civilian who has utter regard for these untold heroes.

Anonymous said...

6th CPCR and subsequent steps reduced the time scale service of capt,maj,lt col and even of selection grade full colonels whereas there is no reduction in the time scale service of Col (TS). Why? Think there is no mybaap for the same and only superseeded offrs are affected in this case for whom it appears that seniors not bothering for the same. This is totaly for debarring the ACC Entry even from becoming Col (TS) at 26 yrs of service because they generally gets commission between 29 to 31 yrs of ORs service and retire at the age of 54, just one or two yr prior of completing 26 yrs of service .Needs to be analyised. No further comments please.

deepak sehgal said...

mr anonymous

1 we commit our "life" to the nation and give it when needed...and no questions asked, an ias/ifs commits his "grey cells" to the nation and give it when needed...and no questions asked
what a stark difference...!!!
and yes you should have a higher pay...

2 i am an ex-nda, and have 300 coursemates.....i have known them for 3 years and can vouch that 280 joined for the pride, honour of services n yes 20 for other reasons.....how many of your coursemates joined for the pride and honour and not for the power money..???

3 you mentioned about the cheap liquor we enjoy, i really wonder if you dont know how many of your officers ration and the jonny walker come from our csd,
and please dont deny.....
i am also sure you must be knowing how our golf course look.....isint it..???

4 and even with 1 yr of service i can pen my name on this blog and not be " mr anonymous "

pradeep singh said...

hi, this is pradeep,
as i read all the comments about both ias and army officers....
but if we all think deeply one thing that if all the people go towards the aramdayak services..., then who will defend the country from the terriorist , against the naxal powers and many others terrorist activities....our great indian army always defend our country from all big terrorist activities and plans to spoil and destroy our country. our army personnels always keep an watch on the borders,wake all the night for the security of country........ and one of the reality and the history of indian army soldiers is that they always ready to sacrifice their life for the sake and proud of her country....
if everyone join the civil services and private sectors .....then who will we responsible for the security of our country
........army officers as a leaders leads thousands of soldiers in every suitation and have an control on everyone... but ias officers sitting in the office ....do complete his/her work and go back to home and have a long sleep in the night without any tension about her life and country.
but what about the life of the officers?
if they all go on the night sleep or whole army only for the one day go on the strike, then what happen...?
then india will be safe?....our crores of population will be able to go on deep sleep....
so everyone it is very easy to give comments and compare anyone loooking on the pay scale , allowance and benefits given to them...... what firstly we should loook the sacrifice ....
do not forgot the sacrifices of our defence personels in the indo-china, indo-pak, and many more other wars.....only for us..
and the question about the quilification of army officers... as i tell every one that it is easy to take the degree , but use the quilification with the skills,ruling others,powerful leader and courage which give the feeling of giving sacrifice.....is important..
so at last army officers cannot be compare in any respect to any one in any field... a perfect gentlemen men
**************PRADEEP SINGH

Dr. Pradeep Dubal said...

Actually I have just completed my MBBS,& was confused about what to do next...? Whether to join Army, or to prepare for civil services... After reading all the above, I think I will go for army...
-Dr. Pradeep Dubal

Raval said...

Dr Pradeep Dubal...
Congrats you chose correct, Wisdome prevails.

Anonymous said...

if any is aware about new rule of IAS exam for Army officer pl post it?

Anonymous said...

why para miliary forces are being ignored , who r fighting day n nght wid naxals and other terrorist organisations ,i think they should be given due weightage at par with both ias n army officer in terms of pay scale , facilities n other previleges.

Anonymous said...

shame on you all..fighting among ourseleves wont solve the issues we are facing..in the end all you above people proved that money is everything you work for..well if you were looking for a fat pay package then why dont you join some private company..please do mind your own business.. :)

Anonymous said...

Hmm..the other logical conclusion would be that more qualified people want to join the ias than the army

Anonymous said...

and what do these qualified people do ultiimately? mint heaps of unaccounted money, touch politicians feet, collect money for politicians, sleep over at the time of emergencies n call less qualified armed forces, enjoy enumorous n unaccouted privileges using influence of position entrusted by virtue of govt chair.....list is long n long never ending...however point is not to argue who is better or not, but why the one who is laying down his life for the nation n not even remembered the very mrxt day is being ignored on the cost of those who sit in ac rooms n take so called policy decisions (which most of the times seems to be the politically motivated only) is't it ironical?????

nisith mohanty said...

i am verry sorry to see the comparision going on betwen ias and army officers.we are very proud for our indian army they protects our country from territorial enemies and mantains the security of the country. I salute all those army personnels who died for the sake of country they give us really motivation.But as well as an ias officer has great importance in running the country sucessfully. They work for the betterment of people and their decision directly changes the life of lakhs of people.A country can prosper only if its people will prosper and which really depends on an ias officer.An army personnel cannot contribute directly for the poor people who hardly eats two meals a day but an ias officer can.And an ias officer cannot contribute directly in mantaining security of the country while the army personnel does.And if you consider risk there is great risk for an ias officers also there will be many enemy mainly corrupt polticians if you work the betterment of the country.And only the army personnels working near border and paramilitary operations have life risks.Forget about corruption if want to serve your country and can dedicate everything for the sake of country then becoming an ias officer you can change life of millions people or you can join army and can die for the sake of country.Both contributes greatly in their field and there should not be any comparision betweeen them.Not be fool if you have guts and can dedicate everything for the sake of well beings of people and country then both the fields are heaven for you.so brothers and sisters bring the motivation and will power in you and contribute something for your country.

Unknown said...

Congrats to myself, to encounter with such a good blog site.

I have 1 submission that, all citizens of the country are taxed for the betterment of everyone, why cannot we afford to tax Re 1 more, to provide bullet-proof vests to all army and para-military jawans and officers. Will the IAS sanction this?

I have interacted and discussed various issues of developments with young IAS officers, they are intelligent to grab ideas, but lack the guts to implement them, due to their bureaucratic character of handling things. And as they grow with their experience they become dumb as they could not get any experience to do great things, and if they are really pro-active and had the stuff in them to become future trend-setters, the politicians make them Durga Shakti like case. So the fact remains, may be 10% of the IAS final grow up to the requirement of the country and its people.
This is not the case with the Army and defense personnel.... to be contd.

Unknown said...

There are more issues for Defense personnel who retired as commissioned officers, other ranks and jawans. Many district level Ex-Defense Employees employment schemes are there, but often the disciplined employees have to work between corrupt private system companies as security in-charge and in real-estate business. Often the private sector employs ex-defense personnel just to create a sense of discipline and truthfulness to the people and market, which they serve.

I fail to understand with such leadership qualities and many with technical qualifications and experience, why don't they come forward to start self-driven private sector companies themselves like employing 80% ex-defense personnel (which should be given edge over other bids in government tenders):
1. Road making companies.
2. Construction of bridges.
3. Railway Civil Construction.
4. Power Plant at Coal pits.
5. Courier Companies.
6. National Transport Companies.
7. National University for Security Personnel.
8. District level- Integrated Dairy Farms

etc etc....

Only Hope remains with you, for give a kick-start to the economy of the country again. You served the country as jawans and now serve the country well as civilians. Your efforts would be appreciated.

Aanks said...

Just gr8. After reading all the points i was thinking that wat can be the solution/situation close to solution. One permanent solution is there(though hypothetical), let us interchange between efficient IAS and Defence forces. In next six months, employ all IAS/IPS/IFS officers to interchange with Army/AirFoce/Navy Offrs, and similairly goes for the staff of various departments with the jawaans. Six months necessary training to be provided for both of them for their anticipated new and challenging role. I think results will show that who can perform better. Smart,efficient, honest, physically fit, more educated, extremely hard working Civil Officers or low qualified, cheap liquor drunkards, golfers and hardly working Defence persons???????
Has any body thought on few things -
1. Why there is no reservations (sc/st/obc) in Defence Force?
2. Why not even a single family person of any Politician has ever joined Active defence force?
3. Why our enemy country, though being supported by worlds most powerful country, has not been able to destroy our country?

I am sure answer to these questions will open the minds of Smart,efficient, honest, physically fit, more educated, extremely hard working Civil Officers??????Good Morning Sir

Anonymous said...

Please improve your english before commenting on someone.you cant even imagine what they go through to save your ass.you are no one to comment in this manner on our nations great army and its brave soldiers

vinesh said...

Correction....nda cadets are not given stipend.stipend is given in ima,afa and ina.

vinesh said...

Sorry but all defence officers are at least graduates.for nda cadets the graduation is done in nda.you cannot become an officer until you are a graduate

Anonymous said...

Comparing minimum required qualification don't make any sence , look at the examination conducted to entry for MBBS,ENGINEERING in most prestigious institute of country like AIMS,IIT, etc minimum required qualification in these exams is 10+2 in science similarly entry to NDA is the same because required age to NDA is (16 1/2 - 19 years) after that they have to undergo 4 years harsh training session in which they also complete their graduation in desired subjects.So if an IAS aspirant even don't know selection procedures in the country only tri services elite academy,disrespecting country own forces, then i don't think that these kind of guys are eligible for this prestigious job.

Anonymous said...

My comment is not specific to any one personally .
I just want to add that nobody is honest enough on their own field,let it be a civil service officer or defence service officer. But yes something has encouraged me to write a comment over here and that too for those who are boasting of their honesty and nationalism.

If you guys are so loyal and honest to your job and nation then why don't you have a guts to allow the media to come inside and be an active part like it is in civil organisation . why any of the officer is not being caught for their abuse of power in his active service (got caught after his retirement), why you hide every thing from the public in the name of security .
Only thing is that civil officers are much more exposed to their abuse of power while in contrary, defence officers are hardly exposed.

Regards :)

kumar said...


You are either a dropout at your life somewhere or you could not join Armed Force rather rejected piece. I have really seen the Officer like quality only in Defence Officers. May be one or two IAS or IPS may have to that level. If you still feel Armed Forces get more benefits, pl send your ward to join this prestigious job. At least you will be proud then. In civil Govt job, An LDC will retire as section officer without even knowing A,B,C,d..

Unknown said...

Mr.Anonymous,you know courage is one thing every body may not have,especially when you could not disclose your name.I suppose you do not have it.Therefore,your attack on the issue gone out of track & instead of 14yrs. promotion for IAS in contradiction with Lt. Col.'s 26yrs promotion & pay package which was the argument forgotten.And you can not compare army with civilian part because it needs courage which you simply lagging.

Unknown said...

Both of our armed forces and civil servants are doing great job.Their is no reason to fight for salary.
Chaman mein. ikhtilat-e- rangoboo se baat banti hai....
hum hi hum hain to kya hum hain tum hi tum ho to kya tum ho.

azure trails said...

I am an aspirant of the civil services, it saddens me to see fellow aspirants/commentators/or even officers to put such demeaning words to our own brethren be it IAS to Ranked officers or the other way round. I wont talk at lengths to justify my opinion but if at all my two cents matter consider these:
1. I had put my heart & soul in getting selected successfully for the OTA as a woman candidate from the SSB Allahbad on the 3rd of July'11. Which to this day remains the most cherished day of my life (I wouldnt even care to remember my birthday). Though i was slashed due to the merit list short of 4 seats to accommodate a merit listed candidate.
2. My heart still sinks to nadir for a second when i see/read about armed forces and how it is being perceived by civilians. For those who thinks the ones who couldnt study at school and took the easy way about NDA etc, seriously guys?!! I hope you be thankful beyond your shamelessness to realize you could study /enjoy with your girls/boys, enjoy marital bliss do everything possible and then sit to study whatever was taught in school SAFELY just because your "those" schoolmates watch over the borders ..all alone, vulnerable, and yet completely dedicated to your safely