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Monday, September 3, 2012

Incorrect letter regarding pay fixation of veterans in Banks and other financial institutions withdrawn by Ministry of Finance


Based on the newly introduced concepts of 6th CPC, fresh instructions were issued by the Govt of India, Department of Personnel and Training vide Letter No 3/19/2009-Estt (Pay II) dated 05  April 2010 in which all modalities of pay fixation of re-employed ex-servicemen pensioners were explained. The said letter however was vague and ambiguous as far as the treatment of Military Service Pay (MSP) was concerned. As a result, civil organisations including banks, started deducting MSP from the pay fixed in the re-employed organisations, meaning thereby, that MSP was not being included in the protected pay in such organisations.

Accordingly on the issue being raised by ex-servicemen, a clarification was sought from the Ministry of Finance and a fresh letter was thereafter issued by the DoPT of even number dated 08 November 2010 in which the following was explicitly clarified by the Govt of India :-


“Hence in respect of all those defence officers/personnel, whose pension contains an element of MSP, that need not be deducted from the pay fixed on re-employment”


The above clarification, wherein it was provided that MSP would not be deducted from the pay fixed on re-employment, was endorsed by the Govt of India, Ministry of Finance, Department of Financial Services, to all Banks etc for compliance vide Letter No 4/1/2010-SCT(B) dated 22 Nov 2010.

However later, on receiving letters for clarification of the subject from The Indian Banks’ Association, the Department of Financial Services issued another letter No F No 4/1/2010-SCT(B) dated 23 March 2012 based on the earlier DoPT letter dated 08 Nov 2010 but in which it was surprisingly incorrectly stated in the last lines that MSP shall not be included in pay fixation, meaning thereby that MSP shall be deducted from the pay fixed on re-employment. This however was actually in contravention of the actual DoPT letter dated 08 Nov 2010 which in fact clearly states that MSP need not be deducted from pay fixed on re-employment. The following lines of the letter dated 23 March 2012 created chaos:-


Therefore Ex-servicemen re-employed in the banks who retired on/or after 01.01.2006 are eligible to pay fixation in banks based on the pay drawn by them at the time of discharge from the Defence Services which would include band pay Plus grade pay but does not include MSP

The said clarification dated 23 March 2012 signed by Mr LK Meena, Director of Financial Services, rather than clarifying the issue unnecessarily created confusion and banks thereafter started deducting MSP from the pay fixed on re-employment while the DoPT had stated just the opposite.

When I pointed out the anomaly to the Department of Financial Services, no action was taken by them and even RTI Applications were stonewalled.

However, it goes to the credit of Mr LK Meena, Director, Department of Financial Services, Ministry of Finance, Govt of India, that on my pointing out the fact that his staff had not briefed him correctly before getting the letter issued, he has promptly withdrawn the incorrect direction dated 23 March 2012 and has now directed all Banks and Insurance Companies to follow DoPT directions dated 08 Nov 2010 in letter and spirit. The letter withdrawing the earlier letter and containing the aforesaid directions has been issued on 28 Aug 2012. Mr Meena has also stated that his Public Information Officer had not replied to the RTI Application in a proper manner.

With this, the problem of not taking into account the Grade Pay and MSP of defence personnel on re-employment in Banking and Insurance institutions stands resolved.

118 comments:

Harry said...

Sarkari left hand not knowing what right is doing is common knowledge but what is making newer lows is left has forgetting what it had done just a while back! No wonder Indian Babudom is rated so low in worldwide surveys.

Hail Bhartiya babugiri.

Anonymous said...

Kudos to Navdeep for once again taking up the issue concerning ex-servicemen and pursuing it relentlessly till its logical conclusion.
A question that begs an answer.... did the services take up the matter?

Anonymous said...

pl duna reduce this blog mere to criticizing platform for babus.we must refrain from finding faults.Rather admire the efforts put in by maj navdeep in resolving the issues.
Bringing abnomilites to notice nad its resolution for betterment of all should be aim.

Anonymous said...

the psu banks also deducting the DA from pension as the bank(SBI) is forwarding the letter to PDA for deducting DA against Pay protection for ex serviceman

WG.CDR.V.SUNDARESAN(RETD) said...

Sirs,
This is the gimmick often the babus play
IF YOU CAN NOT CONVINCE THE GOVT, THEN CONFUSE THE GOVT WITH OTHER EXTERNAL FACTORS AND YOU SEE THE RESULT:
FOR THE BABUS IT IS ALWAYS A "WIN-WIN"BATTLE/WAR
V.SUNDARESAN

Airco said...

For 8 Nov 2012;

Pl amend it to read "8 Nov 2010"

Unknown said...

thanx navdeep for all the pains....

Unknown said...

thanx a ton Navdeep......for the yeomans service

PBOR said...

@ Maj Navdeep : God Bless you. wish you more powers

Anonymous said...

Some of the banks not considering x pay also kindly take up for the same

Anonymous said...

Firstly a big thanks for all the pains. Secondly as per 6th cpc defination of Basicy Pay for ESM is the sum of pay in the pay band, grade pay and X Group pay (where applicable). Military Service Pay will be an additional element which shall count as pay for all purposes except increments. The clarification for MSP is sought but X-pay still remains the concern .....Many PSU Banks are still not considering X-pay..as part of Pay for fitment. Request take up this issue also... thanks

Rajesh Kumar SBI New Delhi said...

Thanks & regards to all of them who are putting their best efforts to resolve these kind of unwanted hurdles in proper pay fixation of all ex-servicemen who have joined PSU banks on or after 01-01-2006, things have been added one by one... no probs "Its better to late than never"

Anonymous said...

Dear Navdeep Sir

Thanks to you for all the effort

Sir I would like to bring some more fact about the re-fixation of pay on re-employment in the banks. Ex-servicemen who join late in the bank (after one or two years from their date of discharge) do not get any benefits. May be because of the fitment formula that govt issued .There Basic pay is fixed after adding basic pay+ grade Pay +GCB+ Da at the time of discharge (minus) current DA paid at bank( normally higher ).Further they have to forgo DA on their pension .I am giving my example for your kind reference.

I am working in the bank and was drawing basic pay as Rs.8000/- as my initial basic pay. Recently I applied for re-fixation of pay on re-employment in the bank. As par the last pay certificate I was drawing pay as: Basic pay Rs. 9200+ Grade pay Rs. 2800 + DA Rs. 1080(9%)+ GCB Rs. 120(Total Rs. 13200/-) Bank has re-fixed my pay as Basic Pay Rs. 9400+ DA Rs. 4342(46.20) (total Rs. 13742) resulting the benefit of Rs1400/- in basic pay +DA which is presently approximately Rs. 4700 now( after adding graduation increment pay which bank allow to the graduate). However, I was asked to forgo my DA on pension which is approximately Rs. 5040/- which means net loss of Rs.300 per month this may be more in the case on non-graduate ex-servicemen. As we do not have the data, we can not say how many ex-servicemen are actually benefited on re-fixation of pay in the banks. Ex servicemen normally Opt for Re-fixation with the hope that at some point of time they may get some benefit .


We would be obliged if you take up our case with appropriate authority

Thanks

PK Nair

bindas said...

Dear sir,
I'm totally confused,reading the comment of mr. nair.As far my knowledge says,the bank should protect only the last pay part of the salary at the time of discharge, which includes pay in the pay band+ grade pay + msp + x-gp pay + gcb/classification pay as the basic pay and there after DA as avilable at that point of time should be calculated.
At no point the DA should be considered while fixing basic pay. Question now arises that the fitment formula the banks are adhering is correct or not.
If anyone having a copy of the same may upload or leave a link to it for further representations.
Jai Hind.

Anupam-Pandey said...

Dear Sir, It,s really a very beneficial news for thousands of our ex servicemen reemployed in banking industry I thank you for such a wonderful news and your efforts towrds this clarifications

Anonymous said...

Kudos to Maj Navdeep for taking up the issue and getting it resolved. Regarding X-GP Pay ambiguity prevails among many PSU Banks.Some banks continue to give their employees benefit of X-pay while others have started deducting it. Kindly take up the issue for benefit of ex-servicemen.

Anupam-Pandey said...

Dear Sir,
with respect to refixation kindly upload the copies of the letters mentioned by specially the letter Govt of India, Department of Personnel and Training vide Letter No 3/19/2009-Estt (Pay II) dated 8nov2010 and the letter of Mr LK Meena regarding clarification dated 28 Aug 2012 so that it can be taken up with IBA to issue the guidelines in the case.

Anonymous said...

,
first of all many thanks to Maj Navdeep singh for taking up the matter related to MSP at appropriate level and getting it resolved by the concerned competent authority.no doubt this is going to be a great relief to many of ex-servicemen who on re-employment were not getting their pay protected in the way as it should be.surprisingly the biggest bank of India(SBI)has declared the MSP and the X-pay as allowances and not the pay and therefore these both elements are not considered for pay protection by the bank on the basis that only pay is to be protected and not the allowances.However needless to say that as these both the elements(MSP and X-PAY)attracts DA and also they constituent the part of pension these elements fall well within the definition of pay and hence should not be declared as allowances(contradicting the recommendations of 6th central pay commission.I am quiet confident that as it has happened in the case of MSP,the matter related to X-Pay will also be taken up with appropriate authority in order to resolve it.thanx,.:

Anonymous said...

anonymous said
What Mr. PK Nair has mentioned is confusing How the DA deducted From pension is more when the pay fixed by the bank is Rs 200 more then the Last pay drawn.

s kumar said...

Dear Sir,
kindly clarify two points regarding this- a) policy regarding D A on pension after re-fixation as some are getting others not. b) pay protection by banks after adding banks DA to basic or only by basic.

all banks take different decision on this.

thanking you

s kumar

veekay said...

1. Ignoring Technical Pay when Calculating Pension

Presently, Technical Pay is not being counted for calculation of pension. I had raised the issue with the CGDA, PCDA (Pensions) and PCDA (Officers), Pune. According to them, only basic pay, rank pay and NPA are taken into account for calculating pension.
Logically, all forms of ‘pay’ should be included and ‘allowances’ excluded. Medical officers have been getting NPA for many years, while until very recently; technical officers did not get anything. Probably the orders for counting basic pay, rank pay and NPA were issued before technical pay started being granted. If NPA can be included, why not technical pay?

2. Deduction of Pension on Reemployment

Service officers are often re-employed in military and civil appointments. They are not only re-employed in a lower rank, but their salaries are fixed after deduction their pensions. On the other hand, civilian officers are-re-employed in the same rank. Is this not discrimination.
In case of Service officers, full pension is being deducted. According to Office Memorandum No 45/73/97-PW&P(G) dated 02 July 1999, issued by the Dept of Pension & Pensioners’ Welfare, the pay on re-employment is required to be fixed after ignoring only a portion of the pension (Rs 1500, later increased to 4000). Of course, JCOs/OR get their full pension in addition to the salary in the new appointment on re-employment. Why these anomalies.

Mr Sreedharan, who was heading Metro Rail Corporation, was s reemployed with the Konkan railway after retiring from the Indian Railways. In his case also, the pension was deducted. He went to the Delhi High Court, which ruled that he will get his full salary, in addition to his pension. The judgment is dated 5/12/2008 in WPC 2356/2002.

3. Dearness Allowance on Disablity Pension.

In case an officer is getting disability pension, this is ignored while fixing the pay on re-employment. The service pension and disability pension are paid by the PDA, while the salary and DA on the salary as well as the service pension is paid by the organisation where he is re-employed. Dearness relief on the disability pension is NOT paid, either by the PDA or the organisation where he is re-employed. Logically, the PDA should pay the DA on the disability pension, but he does not. It is pertinent that while deciding on the payment of dearness relief the guiding principle is that the original value of the pension should be maintained. This was the reasoning followed by the 5th Central Pay Commission as is apparent from Para 2 of DP & W Office Memorandum No 45/73/97-PW&P(G) dated 02 July 1999.

Anonymous said...

Sir
I am an ex airforce personnel retired in mar 2004 after 20 Years service,in jan2012 I got a job in psu bank presently Iam drawing entry level salary,where as ex servicemen who retired after jan 2006 are getting the salaries as per 6th CPC could you please guide me to get my dues.why I should get less than my juniors.

Anonymous said...

I am not confused or surprised by what Mr PK Nair has mentioned. Mr Nair might have been fixed Rs 1400/- more than the initial fixation in the bank that means benefit is Rs 1400 + da on Rs 1400 and but the da on pension which recovered may be more because his basic pension might be somewhere around Rs.7000 . I wonder then why he opted for Re-fixation.
I have a few more doubts.
1. When the DA on pension is stopped by Pension disbursing authority (bank), whether the amount withheld by PDA is credited to the organization / bank a/c to which the ex-servicemen belongs/ re-employed? if yes then are they suppose to receive the amount more than what they pay? if not then what is their interest in recovery .
2. Is this clause (recovery of DA on pension) is applicable to only those who opt for protection of pay?if yes then why so?
In my opinion the recovery of DA from pension should be restricted to the protected part of pay. In Mr. Nair’s case DA should be recovered only on Rs 1400/-
I think Maj Navdeep being a lawyer can explain us better.

s kumar said...

The clarification by Office of the Principal Controller of Defence Accounts (Pensions) Allahabad Circular no.-386 dated 19 June 2008 on “MINIMUM PAY” for the eligibility of DR on pension. Its clarification in point no.4 of circular “in the cases where PBOR retired before attaining the age of 55 years and re-employed thereafter below group A post and their pay fixed at a higher stage because of advance increments and no protection of last pay drawn were given, the pay should be treated as fixed at a minimum for the purpose of ignoring entire pension and allowing dearness relief on pension.”
As per above circular all ex-servicemen re-employed as clerk in various bank are eligible for DR
on pension too.but many including me are not getting DR on my pension.
Maj Navdeep sir, please clarify & take up the issue to concerned authorities for directing banks disbursing pensions to restore DR of PBOR re-employed with bank and got certain re-fixation also.

s kumar

maheswar said...

Dear sir

please send me yours contact details I want to talk to you regarding ex serviceman welfare matters

sir my contact details as follows
maheswariesl@gmail.com
+919853173517
ex-sgt maheswar behera balasore odisha

Anonymous said...

AT PRESENT CENTRAL BANK OF INDIA IS FIXING PAY FOR EX SERVICEMAN IN HYDERABAD REGION IN THE FOLLOWING MANNER BY CONSIDERING ONLY PAY IN PAYBAND AND GRADE PAY AS BASIC PAY.
EG SUPPOSE PAY IN PAY BAND 11690 AND
GRADE PAY 2800,IT BECOMES 11690+2800=14490/=AS BASIC PAY.ON THIS BANK FITMENT IS AT 15th STAGE,MEANS 12300+700+700+700+700=15100/=TILL IT CROSSES 14490/=.SO 15100/= WILL BE THE BANK BASIC AND THAT GRADUATION PAY(700+700=1400/=),SO YOUR NEW BASIC WILLBE 15100+1400=16500,THIS IS ONLY LATEST IBA GUIDE LINE SAYS UNTILL OTHER THINGS ARE INCLUDED.IN NO CASE YOUR BASIC SHOULD BE LESS THAN 15100/=(i.e pay in pay band + grade pay).MINIMUM THIS AMT SHOUL BE PROTECTED.HOWEVER BANK IS MIXING SOMETHING WITH SOME THING,BY CONSIDERING DA,WHEREAS GOVT LETTER CLEARLY SAYS ONLY PAY PAY BAND AND GRADE PAY TO BE CONSIDERD FOR FIXATION OF PAY,DA SHOULD NOT BE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION,THE MOMENT YOU TAKE DA,THERE WILL BE A HUGE PAY DIFF BETWEEN THODE WHO HAVE COME OUT EARLY 2006 AND AFTERWARDS.BECAUSE DA IS VARIABLE.IN EARLY 2006 IT WAS MERE 6% AND 2010 45%.EARLIER BEFORE 2006 BANK USED TO TAKE DA % AND OTHER MISCELLENEOUS THINGS SO AS TO PROTECT THE PAY OF EX SERVICEMAN,I THINK THAT TIME BANK PAY WAS MORE THAN ARMED FOCES PAY.

Ex Sgt R K Mishra said...

Dear Major Navdeep Sir,
Warm regards and many thanks for taking up finally getting materialised the issue of MSP for pay fixation of Ex-servicemen.
I am Ex-Sgt R K Mishra presently employed in State bank group. The coreection letter dated 28 Aug 2012 issued by Department of Financial services is neither available on internet nor IBA is in receipt of the same, which is still a hurdle for fixation.sir, can u kindly suggest me from where the copy of the said correction letter be obtained. I will be highly grateful to u if u can mail the same to my email ID ramkumarmishra.2008@rediffmail.com
thanking u sir.

r kumar said...

Dear sir,
I'm and Ex Air warrior now employed in Bank.Firstly Grateful and very happy to note that MSP shall be restored which will benefit lot of our bretherns. I retired from service on 31 Jan 2008. So my pay does not include MSP. The X group Pay along with its DA which I am eligible has been deducted while re fixation.the v pay commission there were 4 groups in IAF according to their trades. I was inducted directly in I group technical trade. In 6th pay commission to bring parity, the group system was done away with but the element of trade specific pay was introduced as X group pay. which is nothing but a recognition of the technical qualification and trade allotted and forms very much the part of Pay. Kindly take up the matter with concerned authority for including the same in refixation of Pay.
thank You
Jai Hind.
R kumar

Srinivas Rao said...

Sir,
I am Ex-Sgt R Srinivas Rao presently employed in State bank of Hyderabad. The coreection letter dated 28 Aug 2012 issued by Department of Financial services is neither available on internet nor IBA has reacted on the same when contacted by our union member, which is still a hurdle for fixation.sir, can u kindly suggest me from where the copy of the said correction letter be obtained. I will be highly oblised to u if u can mail the same to my email ID rsrao26@gmail.coml.com
thanking u sir.

S NANDI said...

Sir,
I thank you for the effort you have put in for the inclusion of MSP in the pay protection of ex servicemen. Sir one kind request is that can you put the copy of the said letter on the website so that we can quote the same to the concerned authorities as the officials of the banks still have confusion regarding the same. This would not only be helpful to me but also to the thousands of ex servicemen bank employees who did not get their dues. thank you sir once again

Anonymous said...

bina kam karke itna kuchh mila, pension, pay protection, being a soldire you are going to get more salary than a chief manager who has put whole life in the banking industry.
bhai log kabhi to khus ho jayo after servic you are settled with a double income.
just save the nation dont take all privilages by name of ex-defence

Anonymous said...

Sir,
Is it possible to post the authority letter as mentioned in your post, so that it can be circulated for action.

As one rank one pension is approved, the ex servicemen who joined psu before VI pay commission would get lesser pay than recently joined same rank same status person. Whether this issue could also please be taken up.

Anonymous said...

This post is regarding the comment posted by anonymouns dated 24 Sep 12 time 11:22 PM.The reply to him is that " dont think that the whole world is mad, it is not the way you think. bina kam kiye , it may be your lifestyle. and one more thing "agar aapko kuch kam nahin hai to bekar ki time mut kharab karo, abhi to kuch kam karo"

PASSION said...

I REALLY APPRECIATE THE WAY MAJ N SINGH HAS TAKEN UP THE CASE WITH MIN OF FIN. HOWEVER I WOULD LIKE TO BRING TO THE NOTICE OF ALL CONCERNED THAT A LOTS OF EXSERVICEMEN RETIRED PRIOR TO 01.01.2006 BUT JOINED THE BANKS AFTER THIS DATE ARE NOT GETTING ANY PROTECTION OR FIXATION OF PAY. IN THIS REGARD DOPT ON 05.04.2010 ISSUED GUIDELINES AND THESE GUIDELINES WHEN INQUIRED FROM MIN OF FIN.... THEY SPECIFICALLY THAT THE LETTER PERTAINS TO CENTRAL GOVT DEPRT ONLY AND THOSE EX SERVICEMEN RETIRED PRIOR TO 01.01.2006 AND EMPLOYED AFTER THIS DATE IN CENTRAL GOVT WILL GET THE PAY FIXATION OR PROTECTION.

IM REALLY FEEL SAD THAT WHY I HAVE JOINED THE BANKING SECTOR RATHER THAN GOVT SECTOR BCOZ I HAVE NOT GOT ANY FIXATION IN BANK, BCOZ THE REASON IS CLEAR THAT I HAVE RETIRED BEFORE 01.01.2006 AND JOINED BANK ONLY IN YEAR 2009.

HOW CAN THE GOVT DISTRIBUTE ONE BENEFIT TO ONE CLASS OF EXSERVICE MEN JOINED THE GOVT SECTOR AND OTHERS THOSE WHO HAVE JIONED THE BANKING SECTOR.

I WILL REALLY APPRECIATE IF MAJOR N SINGH TAKE UP THE MATTER, EITHER WITH DOPT OR MIN OF FINANCE TO IMPLEMENT THE LETTER DATED 05.04.2010 IN BANKING SECTOR TOO ... TO HELP THOSE HELPLESS EXSERVICEMEN ....INCLDUING ME ALSO.

REGARDS

KALYAN SHARMA
EX SERGEANT
9818176167

Anonymous said...

Sir,
I am an ex Sgt of X group retired from IAF on 31/03/2004 and joined SBM on Jan 5,2012.I have the LPC of 31/03/2004,as per that My basic was only Rs.5600/- how can I get my Pay fixation done in bank so that I get equal salary of same rank personnel who retired after Jan 2006,and joined banks after2006.Kindly Guide there are many such people who are in need.

Somnath Biswas said...

Sir,
Pls give the reference from where we should get that said letter so that we can compel IBA for our pay protection.

Nithyananthan Nk said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Nithyananthan Nk said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Tukaram V Manerajurikar said...

to-Kalyan Sharma, Sir, you atleast got reemployement after retirement in civil side. Think of thousand soldiers working as watchman/security guards. Atleast it is better you have not joined Cen5tral Govt in 2009 ( As there is NPS applicable wef 2004). Banking Section will allow you a second pension. Think of that.

Anonymous said...

I have retired from defence service in July 2007. The LPC later on received by me does not include MSP. Even though no arrears of MSP have been paid for the period from Jan 2006 to till my retirement in Jul 2007, can I get the LPC showing the notional MSP to be cosidered for fixation of pay during re-employment in banks?

Anonymous said...

Sir,
You are doing a great job for lakhs of Defence Personel.After retirement,we are unable to get any correct information relating to us. But you are not only giving that information, you are solving the problem also.
Regarding MSP you had written in your block in details. But you had not mentioned the letter no which is issued on 28 Aug 2012 by Mr. L K Meena.
sir, you can mention the letter no on your block or send me email at sukesh2011ara@gmail.com
Yours
Sukesh

Anonymous said...

Sir,
ex servicemen those are joining banking sector are getting their pay protected. is there any provision of ex servicemen joining central government or any psu to get their pay protected?

openmind said...

Thank you sir, for perusing the issue of MSP.

As requested by many kindly post the correction letter by Mr Meena dated 28 Aug 2012 / a link for the same so that we can persuade our organizations to do the needful.

or kindly mail it my email id sreenivas.varigonda@gmail.com

Regards

Anonymous said...

the letter of 08nov 2010 never tells that MSP will be considered for pay fixation. It clearly says that it will not be given then why so much joy...

Anonymous said...

Dear Sir,

The Letter quoted in the blog clearly states that MSP is not applicable for re-employed ex-servicemen. Accordingly same is not being paid in SBI. Kindly take up with the Govt for issue of unambiguous letter in a plain language as to what are the elements to be taken into consideration for fitment.
Regards

Anonymous said...

Dear Maj Navdeep Singh,

Thank you very much for taking so much pain for the MSP issue. But the letter quoted in the Blog is mis interpreted by the banks as MSP is not applicable for re-employed ex-servciemen. The very purpose of issuing the letter by the Dept of Fin Services/IBA is failed. The letter is confusing and ambiguous. Hence I request you to kindly take up with the ministry for issue of letter in a plain language where a layman can also understand and interpret the lines.

VK JAGADEESH said...

Dear sir

i am an ex-serviceman from IAF with 20 yrs of service ,discharged in 2002 in junior warrant officer rank. after a gap of 7 yrs, in 2009
i am lucky to join Banking service.
however, the pay fitment has disappointed me . i am fixed the pay based on the last pay certificate issued by IAF during my discharge year2002, which is obviously lower comparing to present scale.
the sixth pay retirees are drawing more salary than me who have joined along with me during 2009 in the bank service. since the pay protection is granted so that the ex- service man would lead the same financial status .since i have left defence in 2002 with fifth cpc scale and joined bank in 2009 with a gap of 7 years my pay fitment had given not much benefit to me. though i am performing same kind of duties like any other SIXTH cpc retirees and qualified through the same test , i am paid less . Going forward , in future , the difference will exist between the future retirees with 7th CPC and others. the experience will be a fetching factor for any job seekers, but in our case it is a De- motivating one. sine there are no much job opportunities for us we ARE adjusting with pay discrimination at work place.
i think there can be a solution to this problem for the benefit of Ex-servicemen who have given their best years to the nation and still serving the Nation through banking service.
JAI HIND

V K JAGADEESH

Anonymous said...

Sir
As per policy on reservations to exservicemen they should clearly specify what amount of vacancies separately kept. But i am closely watching the andhra pradesh public service commission vacancies but they not posting the exmen quota for any type of job. for example ia m pasting a latest notice :-
PC.NO.1: LECTURER IN CIVIL ENGINEERING
Vacancies:-143
Zone
OC BC-A BC-B BC-C BC-D BC-E SC ST Total Grand
G W G W G W G W G W G W G W G W G W Total
I 1 1 1
II 5 4 2 1 1 1 2 1 1 11 7 18
III 10 4 2 1 1 1 2 1 2 1 1 20 6 26
IV 20 8 2 1 4 3 1 2 1 1 1 6 3 3 1 39 18 57
V 8 2 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 13 6 19
VI 5 5 1 2 1 1 2 3 1 1 15 7 22
Total 49 23 8 3 8 4 2 6 3 5 2 15 7 6 2 99 44 *143
*Additional vacancies added as per Orders, Dt. 06/09/2012

I request you to make aware public about the rights and quotas for exment so that all can be benefited.
thanks

Anonymous said...

the efforts in getting fresh clarification from ministry of finance are most welcoming and praiseworthy. may god bless such crusaders with enough strength n energy to continue serve the ex servicemen community in the great way. Tanuj sharma, Indian Navy

pradeep kumar Soman said...

Sir,
thanks for the support giving to our ex-servicemen family. I humbly request you to provide the link or pdf formats of concerned letters quoted in this site for our easiness. so that we can have a proof to fight for our needs.
thanks again

Anonymous said...

MANY RE-EMPLOYED EX SERVICEMEN WHO HAVE JOINED PUBLIC SECTOR BANKS HAVE GOT THEIR SALARIES FIXED AS PER THE LAST PAY DRAWN IN THE ARMED FORCES. BUT THEY ARE NOT DISCLOSING IT THROUGH THEIR LIFE CERTIFICATES TO THE RESPECTIVE (PENSION DISBURSING AGENCIES). THEY SHOULD SET EXAMPLE BY DEDUCTING DA ON PENSION AS PER THE EXISTING RULE ON RE-EMPLOYED EX-SERVICEMEN. BY NOT DISCLOSING THEIR EMPLOYEMENT TO THE PDAs AND THUS NOT DEDUCTING THEIR DA ON PENSION WILL RESULT IN NATIONAL LOSS, FOR WHICH THEY WILL BRING BAD NAME FOR THEMSELVES AND OTHER EX-SERVICEMEN. BANKS ALSO WHILE FIXING THEIR PAYMENT MUST OBTAIN CERTIFICATE AND ENSURE THEIR DA ON PENSION IS DEDUCTING.

PANKAJ said...

sir,
please clear my doubts.can an ex-servicemen join for second civil job If he passed the exam and submitted all relevant document including ex-servicemen non-employment certificate before joining first civil job.first& second both jobs are from same department and first job is on probation period only

Anonymous said...

Respected Sir,
Through this blog, I want to bring forward to the notice of our members of EXSM that there are very clear rules and instructions regarding re-employment of EXSM. It is available in DOPT, CDA, PCDA and various other sites.
Unlike SC, ST, OBC quota EXSM quota can be exercised only once, and age relaxation multiple times. It is a privilege given by GOI for our past good work and future representation.
There are many instrances of EXSM category violation being done by some of our esteemed members. Recently SBI clerk result was withheld for this purpose only. There are many instances of EXSM switching from one Bank to another either by cunning or by ignorance. But in both cases repercussions will be paid by him only.
It is lke open violation and mukery of a privilege given by GOI. After all we EXSM should set example by upholding rules and regulations. We are veterans and by some of the black sheeps (Jumping Frogs) we should not bring bad name to the community.
Many tend to switch for just few hundred or thousand rupees or for few good places. Many banks must agree that people join as EXSM either switch for SSC or other Banks. How can this be possible without violation of rules? Recently SSC Chief twitted that even EXSM joined in banks during probation also cease their EXSM Quota.
Banks in their own interest should take care and strict action agains any EXSM switching jobs by fradulent means. There should be awareness among those members that playing with rules of employment by supressing or not disclosing information will make them vulnerable and throughout life they will fear for their stability.
Recently DOPT has taken initiative for civilian employees document and record verification to weed out cases of malpractice. By the few acts of our EXSM the same may oneday be initiated against those erring EXSM. Let’s glorify ourselves with dignity and not malign by cheap cowardness and dishonesty.

Anonymous said...

SUB: REFIXATION OF PAY EX-SERVICEMAN EMPLOYEE AS PER CIRCULAR NO CO:HRD:IRP:2010-11:37

Sir,
1,My hearty greetings to you from my side and from all ex pople, you are struggling for our pay fixation at last MSP is being included in addition I have the honour to request the few lines for your kind consideration and for your favourable action on the subject.
2. I took retirement from Indian air force w.e.f 01 sep 2009 after 20 years and 20 days of regular service and joined in mammoth central bank as a SWO on 19 dec 2011 with the qualification of Arts Graduate from Rohilkhand University U.P.
My pay was being protected On the basis of circular no : CO/HRD/IRP/2012-13/6 dated 24/04/12 . My basic pay was fitted at 13,000 , as my last Pay in band was Rs 10130 and grade pay was 2800 so total emolument by last employer was 12930 and my basic was fitted on next slab at 13000(12 th stage), for Graduation I was suppose to get two increment as per IBA in particular slab which was not being added in my last fitment,matter of fun where as after joining of bank before fixation they have given me two increment for graduation and my basic was fixed at 7200+400+400 means 8000, after fitment they have not given me two increment,otherwise my fitment would have been 13000+700+700=14400
3. I further request that as per latest circularCO:HRD:IRP:2012-13 :24 DATED 15 Oct 2012, it is being circulated and intimated that previous circular no: CO:HRD:IRP : 2012-13:6 dated 24/4/12 is being withdrawn and as per circular no: CO: HRD::irp:2010-11:37 dated 28 Dec 2010 all ex-serviceman employee(retired after or on 1/1/2006) are eligible to get Basic pay+ Grade Pay+ MSP + NPA(Non Practicing Allowances constituted of GCB pay and classification pay and X-pay).
4.Please refer the corresponding following Tabulation of Last Pay Drawn in IAF as per last pay certificate issued by Air HQ Delhi, and corresponding basic will be fixed by Central bank of India as per IBA guideline
5.
IAF
PAY IN BAND RS 10130
GRADE PAY RS 2800
MSP RS 2000
GCB PAY RS 240
CLASSIFICATION PAY RS 300
TOTAL RS 15470
Central bank Fitment suppose to be such a type that will be more than last pay drawn in IAF(Rs15470)so it will be next slab 15800(16Th stage)and two increment for graduation on that slab 700+700=Rs 1400 , so fixation will be (17200 18 th stage)
6. It is being requested that month of December my one increment will be due, so corresponding basic will be 17200+1300 = 18500 (19th stage), so I request you kindly fathom and reconsider my fitment according to the guideline issued in the O.M and circular issued by IBA.and please intimate some government order or circular so I can present it in front of my organization for my right.
7.sir I want to request you why this dilemma and injustice with the ex-serviceman after sending a letter they are least bother of proper pay fixation, it is matter of fun, concept is not clear about pay fitment sir please send you mobile no I want to talk to you and send Some of the GOV circular in my email address shayam_ghosal@rediffmail.com my Mob No:9062602508


Your faithfully,
ex service man
jai hind sir

Suvendu nath kanungo said...

sir,
I am a ex jwo of indian air force discharged on nov 2001 and joined DRDO ,Ministry of defence on Feb 2004.I have been told that I will come in new Pension Schme.Is it so.Please let me know whether I can get the old pension benefits or not.
Thank you
suvendu nath kanungo.Ex-JWO

subrata nandi said...

Sir, This is reply to the post of mr shyam ghoshal of 30 nov 12. Sit the formula you have shown in the post for the fitment of pay in psb is not correct. The formula is
Add pay in pand+grade pay+class pay+ DA on pay at the time of retirement= Total emoluments at the time of discharge. Now the pay in bank will be fixed on the (Pay scale + DA in bank at time of joining the bank) which would be greater than the total emoluments in iaf at the time of discharge(as shown above)

in your case add
10130+2800+240+DA at the time of discharge(take for granted 70%)9041=22211

now banks basic is
(DA in bank at the time of joining 75%)12692+DA@75% Rs 9519= 22211.The bank has to pay more than 22211. so the would fix the basic to the scale fitmnent would be more than 12692 ie 13000. do not consider MSP at present.

manoj kumar singh said...

sir
I am an ex army ,retired in may 07.As per fitment take place in oct 12 9400 basic fixed in banking job. Whether in defence service my basic as per LPC is basic 8300, Gd pay 2800, MSP 2000 class pay 300 Total = 13100. But they fixed my basic only 9400, please guide me what should i do in way of proper fitment.
my e mail manojk4411@gmail.com

manoj kumar singh said...

sir
In the same post i read central bank is giving fitment like Band pay+gd pay+class pay ie (8330+2800+300 =11430) I mean my basic should be 11430 or more, but bank is giving only 9400 basic pay to me after fitment.
please guide me sir please.........
manojk4411@gmail.com

Anonymous said...

I am ex-sgt l v purna chandra rao
first up I am very thankful to you sir as you are providing information about ex-servicemen. now also there is no confrmation on da on pension after joining psu. as some banks like canara bank is not paying da on pension. please clarify

Bezwada Venkateswara Rao said...

Sir,
At the outset on behalf of All my exervicemen brethren I take this opportunity to thank you heartfully for resolving the MSP issue due to which a lot of our ex-servicemen brethren would be benefited.
May I also request you to clarify the following :-
There is an ambibuity that after pay fixation based on the last pay drawn, should the DA on pension be surrendered in the case of JCOs/OR or not as some banks are insisting for surrender of DA on pension while some are not. So please guide us on the right path. Your's faithfully, Mr B V Rao Ex Hav/Clk

Bezwada Venkateswara Rao said...

Sir, There is an ambiguity on surrender of DA on pension consequent to fixation of pay based on the LPC in the PSUs and Banking sector as some are insisting on surrendering the DA while some are not. Please advise us the right order.

Thanks.

Anonymous said...

Sir will u please put the copy of Mr L K Meena letter of 28 Aug 2012 where clarification on MSP was give or mail me on nirajchadha1975@rediffmail.com.

regards

Anonymous said...

dear sir,
thanks to your great efforts. But i feel it will go in vain if esm are not benefited. Some banks are still not considering the inclusion of MSP stating that IBA has not issued clear instructions wether to include MSP or not? They want orders in black & white. My request to you sir that could you approach IBA for issuing the same. thanks

prashant
04 jan 2013

Anonymous said...

dear sir,
few banks are still not including MSP stating that they would require clear orders (in black & white)for inclusion of MSP. I request you to kindly approach IBA for the same.

PASSION said...

DEAR ALL, THE DOPT IS THE AGENCY FOR ISSUING OF GUIDELINES TO ALL AS FAR AS FITMENT OF EX SERVICEMEN IS CONCERNED.

MINISTRY OF FINANCE IS A POST MAN AS FAR AS FIXATION IS CONCERNED, THEY IMPLEMENT OR FOLLOW WHATEVER GUIDELINES THEY R GETTING FROM DOPT. THE LATEST GUIDELINES HAS BEEN ISSUED BY MINISTRY OF FINANCE IN YEAR 2000 AND NO OTHER INSTRUCTIONS HAS BEEN ISSUED AFTER THIS.

EVERY ONE IS PLAYING THEIR OWN GAME BCOZ NO ONE WANT TO REPRESENT EX SERVICEMEN.....

THERE ARE CASES WHERE PRE 2006 RETIREES ARE NOT GETING THEIR FIXATION AS PER DOPT LETTER OF 05.04.2010. THE MIN OF FINANCE (SCT) DEPARTMENT IS SAYING THAT THIS NOT PERTAINS TO BANKING INDUSTRY...

THE ULTIMATE LOOSER IS EX SERVICEMEN JOINED BANKING SECTOR AND THOSE WHO JOINED THE CG ARE BENEFITED BY THIS LETTER.

HOPE MAJ NAVDEEP WILL TAKE UP THE CASE WITH ....SCT/IR OF MIN OF FINANCE TO ISSUE SUITABLE GUIDELINES IN THIS REGARD.

KALYAN SHARMA

Anonymous said...

Respected Sir,
Through your blog I want to bring forward to the notice of our EX-Servicemen, the DOPT Order on action against fradulent means of securing govt employment by some jumping ex-servicemen from Banks to SSC, PSU to SSC, Banks to Banks , etc.

The link for this OM is here ----http://www.govtempdiary.com/2013/01/action-against-government-servants-who-get-appointment-on-the-basis-of-false-scstobc-certificates/ dated 10 Jan 2013

Though this is for SC/ST/OBCs but Rule is same for EX-SMs also.

Anonymous said...

PLS POST A COPY OF LETTER SIGNED BY MR.MEENA

Rajesh Kumar Sharma said...

Respected Sir
I want to know that if i take pay protection in bank then i will forgo for DA on my pension or not. because some people is facing this problem or some not what is the solution of this

Raj Kumar

Sergeant

bipin yadav said...

sir plz could you mail me all the govt letters concerned with the above topic (including of msp while pay fixation in banks) all the letters mentioned in your brief. e-mail id is bipinyadav.com@gmail.com
thanking you sir

Anonymous said...

Sir,
I am an ex servicemen as the rank of JWO ,retaied from IAF on 20DEC 2010 and joined in the central government service on 21DEC 2010 (without any break of service) in the same pay band(9200-34800 with GP-4200) and same post through proper channel.My last basic in IAF was Rs 12310 with GP-4200 and MSP-2000.The entire pension benifites including DA on pension is being take by me. ex servicemen those are joining banking sector are getting their pay protected. is there any provision of ex servicemen joining central government to get their pay protected?
Please a link for the same so that i can persuade my organizations for pay protection.
my e-mail dsbhardwaj14@gmail.com
Thankig you

With regards

Anonymous said...

Sir, Through this blog I want to educate the fellow EXSM bretherns that ignorance can never be a blessing. The correct and latest order regarding pay protection of exsm from DOPT is “No. 3/19/2009-Estt. (Pay II) Dated 5th Apr 2010”, which can be easily found in DOPT site. As long as Exsm employed in Banks are concerned, DA on pension has to be surrendered , if they are opting for pay protection. For this they can visit “http://pcdapension.nic.in/pp/expectation.htm”. Already letters to Dept of Economic Affairs and Dept of Financial Services have been written. All banks are requested to provide data on the number of EXSM employed with them and whether their DA on pension has been surrendered to concerned Dept , if they have been pay protected , has been asked through RTI. It has been came to notice that some banks have been circulated notice regarding EXSM pay protection and surrender of DA on pension, but implementaton of the same and recovery of excess amount has been delayed. With a conservative estimate the loss to exchequer may well exceed Rs 50-130 crores.

Anonymous said...

Sir,
I am an ex servicemen as the rank of JWO ,retaied from IAF on 20DEC 2010 and joined in the central government service on 21DEC 2010 (without any break of service) in the same pay band(9200-34800 with GP-4200) and same post through proper channel.My last basic in IAF was Rs 12310 with GP-4200 and MSP-2000.The entire pension benifites including DA on pension is being paid to me.At present the minimum pay Rs-9200 with GP-4200 is fixed and no protection or my last basic drawn from IAF is not fixed .
The ex servicemen those are joining banking sector are getting their pay protected. is there any provision of ex servicemen joining central government to get their pay protected? Request confirm
Please a link for the same so that I can persuade my organizations for pay protection.
my e-mail dsbhardwaj14@gmail.com
Thankig you

With regards

Anonymous said...

Why you are so worried about ex-serviceman's DA. It's clearly mentioned in those orders that officers has to surrender their DA, it their pay is protected in new job. But for men, if your total pay which you got from defence force is protected, then only DA surrender is required.

menon said...

Do the ex serviceman is exempted from paying professional taxes to state government?
any idea?Dfoomt

Anonymous said...

All those EXSM who are re-employed and getting their pay protected (their previous service gets counted in fixing the pay at higher slab) and not deducting their DA from pension, should be worried. Because by partial enactment of OROP, Govt is giving out 2300 crore to EXSM, A chance to get better pay protection and also a chance of employement. If still EXSM are reluctant to deduct DA on pension, by false certificates, it would be clear case of greed and cheating. Banks should respect existing Govt order of pay protection for EXSM uniformly (all bank should apply same rule) and ensure strictly deduction of any one DA, either from Pay or Pension. If the deducted DA gets to Govt, (which is it’s legitimate right) new welfare measures could be taken for all EXSM. A conservative estimate is 50-130 crores every year loss to Govt by not deduction of DA, and per employee cost to Banks (EXSM employee pay fixed at higher slab ), which could be higher, if counted from the date of Pay fixation of each EXSM.

Anonymous said...

If you are so interested to protect your total pay, who forced you to leave Defence, And read the OM carefully and without any biased mind.

Anonymous said...

Govt. Is not here to protect your whim, the rule equally applies to civilians as well as EXSM for re-employment. Greed has no limit, and Govt. Is no GOD. Total Defence pay+ pay protection in higher slab without any deductions, spare the country.

Mahavir Jangir said...

Sir
I am ex-Jwo joined an RRB in sep 2010 as an Probetionary Officer after availing only age relaxation but No quata.In my bank pay is being protected for clerk as per norms but when I applied for pay protection our HR department got confused because it was a unique case of joining ex-serviceman as an PO and asking for any example where pay has been protected in officer cadre.Where as no circular or notification about pay protection specifiy about specific cadre.can any one clarify wheather I am eligible for pay protection or not. officer who has joined bank even as security officer may help me out....?
Please help me out
Mail ID mpchoyal@gmail.com

Goutam Sarkar said...

Sir, I don't know why these anonymous posts are being allowed here. If they don't have courage to state their names they should not post comments. However I have something to ask the anonymous users specially those who are talking about double income etc. of Ex-servicemen.
1. Why there are so many Ex-servicemen around? have you ever thought? Its simply defence strategy to keep the forces young. none want to leave his earnings at their prime age when there family begins growing. Did you ever thought of retiring at the age of 37 to 40?
2. Ex-servicemen leave all the pride, seniority and status behind and get employed as the junior most staff at the age of 37 to 45.(Is it glorious to him?) The only thing they get from govt. /claim the financial status. You are reluctant to give that also.
3. Even if his pay is fixed, it is fixed at 10th to 15th stage only. Whereas he might have put 20 or more years of service and some gap between retirement and re-employment. i.e. he looses at least 5-7 years increment. If you add his pension and re-fixed Payment from the organization, the total always remain less that the person who has put 20 years service in the re-employed organization / the payment he would have got in the services, had he been continuing.
Thanks
Ex-JWO GK Sarkar

Anonymous said...

Ha.. Ha.. There are so many EXSM, this is a defence strategy, But you want to fix your salary at 15-20 stage and still do not want to deduct your da on pension or pay, Is not this your strategy ? Pay protection and pension deduction is two sides of the same coin. It must be clearly written in your PPO and Pension rule books and Govt OM clearly states that. You must be deliberately do not want to read that.And what's in a name, the matter must be solid.

Goutam Sarkar said...

"You must be deliberately do not want to read that" and that too again anonymous? don't take it personally anonymous.

Anonymous said...

Sir, This is for all EXSM bretherns to note, the status of Pay Protection of EXSM conveyed by Minister of State MOD (Shri Jatindra Singh) in Rajya Sabha to a Reply to UNSTARRED QUESTION NO-2512, regarding Pay protection of ex servicemen on reemployment by SHRI MAHENDRA SINGH MAHRA which got
ANSWERED ON-20.03.2013.
Q.2512 . SHRI MAHENDRA SINGH MAHRA

(a) whether Government of India protects the last pay drawn by ex-servicemen on re-employment in Civil Services / Public Sector Banks / SBI / RBI / LIC and other autonomous bodies under Central / State Government;
(b) if so, then what are the elements / constitutes of the pay drawn by ex-servicemen during Armed forces service are being protected / reckoned / counted for their pay fixation on re-employment; and
(c) whether instructions / guidelines in this regard have been issued and being implemented by Public Sector Undertakings / P.S. Banks / SBI / LIC / RBI and other autonomous bodies of Central / State Government?

Ans to this Question by MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF DEFENCE (SHRI JITENDRA SINGH)


(a)&(b):As per the instructions issued by Department of Personnel & Training from time to time, no protection of the pay held by the Ex-Servicemen (ESM) prior to retirement is given and he is allowed to draw pay only in the prescribed pay scale / pay structure of the post in which he is re-employed.

(c)Instructions / guidelines in this regard are issued from time to time by the respective nodal administrative ministries and it is the responsibility of the respective organizations to implement the same. Instructions / guidelines regarding pay rules of the State Government and other autonomous bodies under the State Governments are issued by the respective State Governments.

Kindly Note for all.

Anonymous said...

Sir
Please take up the issue regarding X-gp pay as due to fingering by few banks my pay protection discontinued and waiting further order by IBA regarding X gp pay. MSP is considered but as X gp I am not getting pay protection

Jwo Santosh said...

Inspite so much work done by Maj Navdeep Sing in MSP matter BANK OF MAHARASHTRA IS STILL NOT CLEAR,Ex-Servicemen working in bank does not get MSP in there refixation.What to do? In present circular which is followed for pay fixation they says not clear. Kindly guide me on this issue.

debasis sahoo said...

Respected Navdeep Sir,
I Ex Sgt Debasis Sahoo had retired from IAF in Dec 2006 and joined United Bank of India in May 2011 after a gap of 4.5 yrs. I had applied for pay fitment to my bank authority. My pay fitment is done at very low and the arrear is paid without any fitment letter.
I approached the ex servicemen welfare association on this issue. I was advised to send the copy of fitment letter which I could not get till date from my bank authority. Several approaches from my end became useless. Lastly I am going for a legal case against bank on this issue with the concorance of my union. I need the supporting documents which will help me as well as all ex-servicemen on trouble. Also it will help all banking authority to resolve this issue at their end.
Presently it became a big issue for ex-servicemen that if he could not get a job immediately after retirement from military services he can’t settle himself on re-employment afterwards. It is because of considering the DA as the part of the payment where as it is an allowances paid on employment to compensate the fixed pays with the market prices.
On this issue if the DA portion is removed on fitment there will be a nationalized pay fitment and no ambiguity will be seen.
I again request all to kindly send the said copies through my e-mail id as mentioned below.

Thanks for the all participants on this issue and specially to MAJ NAVDEEP sir.
Debasis Sahoo
Mob no 09090029162
Email Id – dssahoo@rediffmail.com

Mk Dash said...

Dear all,

Firstly thanks a lot to Navdeep sir for taking a great pain to include MSP and it seems people affected are happy. However, we still find it hard to convince the HRMD of RBI, Central Office, Mumbai that element of MSP should be reckoned for pay-fixation. They firmly stand withtheir view that this letter means MSP is not to be reckoned and they want a simple letter from the Govt. stating a single line "please protect MSP of ex-servicemen". Thanks to britishers to give us english language.

Jwo Santosh said...

As i said earlier MSP is not taken in to cosideration in BANK OF MAHARASHRTA. I already written letter to following department
1)The Secretary ,Ministry of personnel Public Grivances & Pensions Department of Personal& Training
2)The Secretary. Ex-servicemen welfare 5a south block new delhi
3)The Chief Welfare Officer, Department of Personnel Training ,361 loknayak bhavan khan market
new delhi
4)Director of Resetlement, west block-IV R.K.Puram new delhi. I recieved reply only from Director of general resettlement that they deals with only employment assistant how ever they send me scan copy of dopt OM and letter from Finance Ministry but problem same letter bank say not clear whether MSP given or not, I think we need to ask information under RTI act from department of finance services work under finance ministry and DOPT. We have to fight this case collectively becuse its mass issue. my mobile 9594941970,email: santoshkhatate@yahoo.com



Anonymous said...

With all permutation and combination of pay fixation being a true citizen of India and ofcourse an exservice man I would like to highlight a simple question to all beneficiaries of bank employees(ex servicemen)that witout doing stressful and risky job in armed forces you are enjoying Rs 3000 MSP( Rs 2000 from bank and Rs 1000 from pension) and Rs 2100 Tecnical pay (Rs 1400 from bank and 700 from pension) with DA whereas our beloved soldiers those are in service they are getting just half of those two components of payment inspite of their risky duties.
What could be better example of availing double benefit from public fund ?

Anonymous said...

Sir, Thank you a lot for the work done. Is the MSP part to be protected only for banks or also applies for the central govt.organisations.plz clarify sir.

Anonymous said...

First of all, thanks a lot to Maj Navdeep Singh Sir for taking interest in ex-servicemen problems and grievences. I also thank him for clarification regarding inclusion of MSP in fitment formula of ex-servicemen. However, many banks still not including MSP while fixing the pay of ex-servicemen. I am working with BOB and when I approached my Regional Office, they told me that we have not received any instructions on the matter from Head Office. Sir, once IBA has instructed all PSUs to follow the fresh instructions, why they are sticken to previous circular. Kindly help me out and e-mail me to nkdutta74@gmail.com or contact me at 9466982010. Thanx.

pawan kumar mehta said...

this is ex sgt pawan kumar mehta
i retired on 10/10/2008 and joined sbi group, i would like to know the difference between fixation of esm by psu's and protection of last salary drawn. thanks for valuable
information to all of you.

pkmehta545@hotmail.com

Anonymous said...

For every answer regarding re employment of an ex serviceman and benefit like pay protection,seniority and increment if any etc .please refer the guide book for ex servicemen issued by Air force Record Office, New Delhi.

PASSION said...

A LOT HAS HAPPENED ABOUT THE FIXATION OF EX SERVICEMEN PAY FIXATION. AND STILL THERE IS DOUBT IN THE MIND OF INDIVIDUAL AND BANKS ABOUT THE PROCEDURE FOR FIXATION OF SALARY OF EX SERVICEMEN.

I WOULDL LIKE TO SHARE THE LATEST IN THIS REGARD.

CASE PERTAINING TO EX SERVICEMEN RETIRED AFTER 01.01.2006 AND JOINED BANKING SECTOR AFTER THIS DATE. THE IBA/MIN OF FINANCE IS STILL FOLLWING THE COMPENDIUM ISSUED IN YEAR 2000 AND STILL MOST OF THE BANKS IS NOT CONSIDERING THE MSP WHILE FIXKING THE SALARY OF EX SERVICEMEN.

CASE PERTAINING TO PRE 2006 AND JOINED AFTER 01.01.2006. MANY OF EX SERVICMEN WHO HAVE RETIRED PRIOR TO 01.01.2006 BUT JOINED THE BANKING SECTOR AFTER THIS DATE IS STILL STRUGGLING FOR PAY FIXATION, BCZ OF NON EXISTING OF ANY GUIDELINES FOR THEM. DOPT VIDE THEIR LETTER 05.04.2010 HAVE CLEARLY MENTIONED HOW TO FIX THE SALARY OF EX-DEFENCE PERSONNEL OF PRE 01.01.2006 AND THIS IS CONFIRMED BY DOPT WHEN A RTI PUT TO THEM. THE MIN OF FIN OR IBA IS NOT BOTHERING THE LTR DATED 05.04.2010 FOR FIXATION OF SALARY OF PRE 2006. AS OF MY INFORMATION CONCERNED DOPT IS THE MOTHER WHO MAKING ALL POLICIES FOR FIXATION OF SALARY. I PERSONALY VISITED THE SCT DEPTT REGARDING THE ISSUE OF PRE 2006 AND I CAME KNOW THAT LOTS OF REPRESENTATION HAVE BEEN RECED BY THEM FOR PRE 2006 AND SUBSEQUENTLY SCT WRITTEN TO IBA FOR LOOKING INTO THE ISSUE.

IBA ON THEIR PART FORMULATED A COMMITTEE IN YEAR 2013 AND FORWARDED THEIR VIEWS TO MIN OF FINANCE. MIN OF FINANCE IN TURN ADVISED THE IBA TO FORMULATE SUCH GUILDELINES FOR PAY FIXATION WHICH SHOULD BE SAME FOR ALL THE BANKS. AS FAR AS THE LETTER OF DOPT DATED 05.04.2010, MIN OF FINANCE CATEGORITY REFUSED TO IMPLEMENT IN BANKING SECTOR GIVING REASON THAT THIS LETTER DOES NOT PERTAINS TO THEM. THE QUESTION ARISES WHEN BANKING SECTOR ALWAYS FOLOWS THE GUIDELINES ISSUED BY DOPT HOW COME THE LETTER DATED 05.04.2010 IS NOT IMPLEMENTED IN THE BANKING SECTOR. AS FAR AS MY KNOWLEDGE IS CONCERNED MIN OF FIN AND IBA IS NOT DEVISING THEIR OWN RULES AND REGULATIONS FOR FIXATION OF SALARY OF EXSERVICEMEN IN BANKING SECTOR. THEY ALWAYS FOLLOWED THE GUIDELINES ISSUED BY DOPT. I HOPE MAJ NAVNEET WIL TAKE UP THE CASE WITH CONCERNED AUTHORITIES FOR LOOKING INTO THIS MATTER. REGARDS KALYAN SHARMA

Unknown said...

Maj Navadeep sir,
My hearty regards to you for taking up issues with concerned authorities regarding the problems faced by ex-serviceman fratermnty.
With respect to the post of Mr
Passion regarding DOPT letter, some more clarification is required by DOPT or Min of Fin/Def, regarding the applicability of such letter with respect to Banking Industries.
I am also an ex-serviceman, Pre-2006 retiree joined bank in 2012.
I am also facing the same problem as faced by my fellow ex-serviceman of same issue.
It will be much help from you, If you guide us and help us taking the issue with concerned agencies.
Pralhad

Rakesh Rana said...

Dear Sir, I have joined the State Bank of India in Himachal Pradesh as an ex-serviceman on 15
Dec 2010. In July 2011 I have requested for my pay fixation and my basic pay fixed in bank was
=12300+2 increments of Graduation ie 13700. My last pay drawn from my previous service was
9580+2800+2000 (basic+grade pay+MSP). In Jan 2013, as per IBA letter HR&IR/MV/76/589/1973
dated 8 Dec 2010 and Ministry of Finance, Department of Financial Service letter 4/2/2010-
SCT(B)dtd 22 Nov 2010, I again sent an application for inclusion of MSP in my salary. But this
time my salary was fixed 10500+two increments of graduation ie 11700. While I enquired
telephonically from my Admin Office(Shimla) I have been informed that last time yr pay
fixation was done wrongly and we are clearing the exact procedure and salary to be fixed.
I have waited for five months and then on 20 June I again submitted an application for
reconsideration, but no reply has been received till so far.

So, sir kindly advise me what is the exact procedure of pay fixation and what should be my
exact basic salary after fixation and to whom I should approach for justification.

Sir, one of my fried who is Indian Overseas Bank, after filing an RTI got his salary fixed
to Rs. 14400.00 without increments of graduation as he was non-graduate. Sir, we are at
least 13-14 ex-servicemen in Himachal who all are facing with same injustice.

Sir, it is further requested that a centralised guidelines to be issued to all banks
regarding this fact,so that Ex-servicemen can get their right and honour to be an employee of
such a bank.

Regards

purayil PT said...

Sir,
Kindly let me know the address of the authority responsible for making POLICY ON PAY PROTECTION FOR EX SERVICEMEN ESPECIALLY FOR THOSE WHO JOIN PUBLIC SECTOR BANKS AND OTHER RELATED POLICIES. Please help me out I am frustrated not only because I have been rejected Pay Protection but also for not recognising my Ex-serviceman status!

I am an Ex serviceman,P.T Purayil retd fm IAF on 31.03.2010 after 20yrs of service. I enumerate a sequence of events on joining ESI Corporation and subsequently in a Nationalised Bank for your kind reference.
29.05.2011 - Appeared for written examination under Ex serviceman Category (GENERAL-XS) – Recruitment of clerks in a Nationalised Bank.
Meanwhile on 14.06.2011 - I Joined E.S.ICorporation, a Quasi Govt of India Organisation.
24.10.2011 - NOC obtained from ESI Corporation dated 24.10.2011, for attending interview in Bank and a copy of the NOC was produced before the Interview board.
10.12.2011 -Appointment letter received from the Bank for appointment as Clerk.
26.12.2011 -Resigned ESI Corporation. 28.12.2011 - Reported for duty at the Nationalised Bank.
28.06.2012 - Confirmed in the services of the Bank on 28.06.2012.
When I applied for Fixation of Pay (Pay Protection)as applicable to Ex-Servicemen the same was rejected by the Bank stating that, As per the advertisement of the Bank, "Ex SERVICEMEN CANDIDATES WHO HAVE ALREADY SECURED EMPLOYMENT UNDER THE CENTRAL GOVT IN GROUP 'C' AND 'D' WILL BE PERMITTED THE BENEFIT OF AGE RELAXATION AS PRESCRIBED FOR EX-SERVICEMEN FOR SECURING ANOTHER EMPLOYMENT IN A HIGHER GRADE OR CADRE IN GROUP 'C' & 'D' UNDER THE CENTRAL GOVT. HOWEVER, SUCH CANDIDATES WILL NOT BE ELIGIBLE FOR THE BENEFIT OF RESERVATION FOR EX-SERVICEMENT IN CENTRAL GOVT JOBS." While rejecting my application for Pay Protection (Fixation)the Bank also stated that, "On verification of the records, it is seen that the above member has already secured employment in Govt organisation. Hence he will not be eligible for availing reservation under Ex-servicemen category. However, he has availed only the age relaxation as prescribed for Ex-Servicemen and has not availed any relaxation with respect to educational qualification etc. He is also coming under the GEN cut-off marks (written exam + Interview) of his respective state recruited under. The member may be considered as selected under GENERAL Category for further processing. As such we regret out inability to accede the member's request favourably and he may be advised accordingly".

It may be noted that though I had joined ESI Corporation by availing reservation as applicable to Ex-servicemen, I was not given any pay protection from ESI. Moreover, I resigned from ESI during the period of Probation.
I am of the opinion that the Bank has committed a gross mistake by rejecting my Pay Protection for the reason that I have been selected in the Bank under General Category and not under reservation categofy as applicable to Ex-servicemen. Also the reservation category is only for securing employment in Govt Jobs. Pay Protection is a benefit given to Ex-servicemen, considering his past defence service, irrespective of the fact whether he has availed reservation or not while joining the Bank. Here though the Bank has rejected because I have not availed Reservation while joining the Bank, the fact that I am an ex serviceman cannot be denied and Ex-servicemen cannot be denied Pay protection.

There are many Ex-servicemen whom I know who have joined Public Sector Banks from other Govt service and even Banks without disclosing the fact that they have availed reservation category and availed the benefits of Pay protection. I am being penalised for speaking truth and by misinterpreting the policy letter on pay protection.

tp_pravin@yahoo.com

Jai hind Sir.

Ravi Kumar said...

Dear sir,
i have joined in Indian Railway in group D in reserve vacancies for ex servicemen.As bank are fixing the pay for ex servicemen as last drawn basic pay as per DOPT letter No 3/19/2009.estt. pay ii dated 08 nov 2010. this letter is also circulated by Railway Ministry railway board stating that the instructions contains in this letter will apply in railway also.
so please clarify sir can we are ex servicemen reemployed in indian railways can be fixed last pay drawn or not
as the this is questions for abt 16000 ex servicemen reemployed in indian railways pls reply sir
waiting for your reply
ysbir singh 9833157398
email yesbirsingh@yahoo.co.in
with regrds
yesbir

Anonymous said...

this discusion started months laps no result delhi h/c mentioned some ruling in amarnath case that ministry of finanse issued some directions in 1953 which can help for the pay protection other wise govt is backing that there is no provision for protection.

Anonymous said...


I’m an ex Short Service Commissioned Officer who served in the Indian Navy from 2002 to 2013.

Presently I’m working in a public sector bank as Security Officer, scale II grade from 2013

Presently public sector banks are employing ex short service commissioned Officers having drawn salary as per VI pay commission in scale II for the security manager post. Earlier they were being taken as scale I officer.

However public sector Banks do not give pay protection quoting order no 202/3/1/86-SCT(B) dated 11-1-1988 stating that that the pay protection benefits is available to only those employed in the lowest scale i.e scale I

Now if a ex short service commissioned Officers having drawn salary as per VI pay commission is employed in scale I, due to pay protection ,his salary would be more than what he would get even if he is recruited in scale II.

The HRA, Medical facilities and Fuel allowance being the same for a scale I and a scale II officer in public sector banks, I do not to know the rationale and justification as to how the recruitment in scale II benefits monetarily if otherwise recruited in scale I

I tried my level best in searching for any latest orders in force regarding pay fixation of ex short service commissioned Officers having drawn salary as per VI pay commission and employed in Public sector banks but I couldn’t find one

I request if any one can throw light on the following issues:-
(a) Information about latest orders in force regarding whether a ex short service commissioned officer having drawn salary as per VI pay commission is eligible for pay protection in public sector banks or not
(b) Information about latest orders in force regarding pay fixation of ex short service commissioned Officers having drawn salary as per VI pay commission and employed in Public sector banks
(c) Information about relevant latest orders in force for formula/s to be applied / followed while fixing pay of ex short service commissioned Officers having drawn salary as per VI pay commission and employed in Public sector banks


Thanking you

Naresh Jangir said...

Kindly make a uniform rule for DA on pension on reemployment.

MP Khati
Dena Bank
Ambabari Jaipur
09636705074

Anonymous said...

Dear Maj. N Singh

I am working with bank of baroda from last25 yrs and due for retirement in Sept 2014 .I had done 10 yrs in the army before joining the bank service . the bank has refused to consider counting of my 10yrs of army service for pension purpose , due to which i have been put in an ackwad position as neither i am receiving pension from Army nor completing the reqwirment of 332 yrs of service in the bank to ean full pension thus i shall be getting proponate pension only from the bank. I shall be grateful if you could take up the case with the finance ministry for counting of SSC Officers service for pension purpose./ let me know if there are any rules under which my past service can be counted for pension in the Bank.
Regards

Maj. Victor Tewari

My mail- victortewari@yahoo.com
Mob_09850001501

rbi rocks.. said...

I have joined Reserve bank of India in Dec 13 in Ex serviceman category. I am being told to forgo dearness allowance on military pension if i wish to get my pay fixed as per my LPC in Defence services. Whereas in many banks , ex servicemen are enjoying pay fixation and full pension with DA. Can anyone tell , what is the correct policy on this. Also RBI is not counting MSP in the pay fixation for ex servicemen.
I think rules should be same for all the banks.

Sachu Jee said...

AS per Sep 2012 letter by GOI, IBA issued a circular intimating banks to include MSP also during fixation of salary.

Even though a clear direction by IBA, more than half of PSU banks were either reluctant to include MSP or have simply refused.

Now banks considering MSP have now started deducting the same after issung internal circulars and new pay fixations have begun without MSP.

I dont understand what and where is the confusion. Why dont the banks understand the word "element of basic pay includes MSP", written in the circular . . . . . .

please come forward to share and clarify the issue

Anonymous said...

Now IBA has issued new circular on 31 JAN 14 and has directed all PSBs not to consider MSP as pay for fitment of pay.

Anonymous said...

Guidelines for Pensioners
Payment of Dearness Relief
Group 'A' officers are not entitled to dearness relief during re-employ under a Govt. office/company/Corporation/Undertaking/Autonomous body. PBORs are entitled for dearness relief during re-employment under above organizations subject to production of a certificate from his re-employer that his pay has been fixed at the minimum of the scale of the post on which he has been re-employed and his entire amount of pension has been ignored in fixation of pay on re-employment.

Anonymous said...

pre 2006 retired exserviceman who are senior in bank service are drawing less pay from their junior counter part retired after 2006.why the IBA has not consider the amended reemployed rule what is the fun how the seniority will be protected.

Anonymous said...

what will happen to those who are pre 2006 retire and senior in bank service will they continue to draw less pay from their junior counter part is it written in the indian constitution .

Anonymous said...

IBA LETTER DATED 30JAN2014 SAYS IT SHOULD ABIDE BY THE DOPT LETTER.AS THE DOPT LETTER SAYS THAT
"IN RESPECT OF ALL THOSE DEFENCE OFFICERS/PERSONNEL, WHOSE PENSION CONTAINS AN ELEMENT OF MSP THAT NEED NOT BE DEDUCTED FROM THE PAY FIXED ON RE-EMPLOYMENT."MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT IBA LETTER SAYS THAT IT IS TO BE PAID.QUOTE FROM THE IBA LETTER
AS THE MSP HAS NOT BEEN INCLUDED IN PRE RETIREMENT PAY AS PER THE DEFINITION GIVEN BY MOD LETTER NO 1/69/2008/D 24.7.2009 THE PROTECTION OF COMPONENT OF MSP IN RE FIXATION OF PAY IN BANK HAS BEEN EXCLUDED..MORE OVER,THE EX SERVICEMEN ON REEMPLOYMENT IN THE BANKS ARE ALLOWED TO DRAW ENTIRE PENSION;ie ENTIRE PENSION IS IGNORED AND NOT REDUCED FROM THE RE FIXED PAY,AS SUCH THEY WILL GET THE BENEFIT OF THE COMPONENT OF MSP,IF ANY,IN THEIR PENSION FROM THE GOVERNMENT.THAT MEANS WHOSE PENSION CONTAINS AN ELEMENT OF MSP THAT NEED NOT BE DEDUCTED FROM THE PAY FIXED ON REEMPLOYMENT.IT IS MY UNDERSTANDING ANYWAY.I MAY BE INCORRECT.BUT IBA LETTER IS ONCE AGAIN CONFUSING.

Anonymous said...

Final conclusion of this discusion is as per my view there should be no protection of pay for Exservice man ie PBOR as it will satisfy the DOPT dept version which they replied in Raj sabha in Q 2512 in Mar 13. Only grant of Advance increment should be there as per length of service only then the Exservice man can draw DA on pension as per clarification by pcda allahabad and there will be no senior and junior pay diffrence other wise X gp will get more pay than Y gp and pre 2006 senior will get less pay from the junior retired after 2006.Same way jan 2006 retiree will get less pay than july 2010 retiree because of DA diffrence.So vote for this View and compel the IBA to frame such Direction which is not in contradiction to any GOVT order.Otherwise heap of litigation will be there bebore banking industry.

Unknown said...

Namaste to one and all and jai Hind:
IBA circular on the issue of pay fixation is in-complete and there is lot of room to misinterpret wording of the same,
Banks after reading the said circular, taking it in their benefits but not to give justice to their own staff (Ex-Serviceman)
pralhad

Anonymous said...

dear sir
pl tell me anyone esm that who have retired before 6th pay commission and appointed in bank 2010. what is the procedure for pay fixation. when i joined they fixed like new employer as my gross is less than that in 2010. i got discharged 2005. so 5 yrs laps.

pl inform us the procedure

barani kk
9884278370

MOHAN said...

Respected SIR,
JAI HIND!
Thanks Sir for taking care of 'WE-the unheard ones' there r two Qs- 1. m.s.p. is allowed for post 2006 retirees after issue of I.B.A. Letter dt 30.01.2014?
2. D.a. Authorised on pension if pay fixation availed by pbor in psu banj?
Please respond on 9044668810 by sms or call 1900- 0700hrs.

arvind said...

once again the issue has reached where it was in Mar 2012 after dissemination of incorrect letter from Finace ministry signed by Mr LK Meena. Now again the guidelines issued by IBA in Feb 2014 creating ambiguity rather clarifying the MSP on refixation therefore once again we will have to take up with IBA and finance ministry need to address the issue. if at all banks dont want to give esms the benefits of service rendered towards nation it should be categorically mentioned

Anonymous said...

Dear Sir,
My question is that I retired from Indian Navy on 31 aug 2010 and joined the Bank on Feb 2013 ... problem arised whent pay fixation took place ... my counterparts who reitred on the same year of joining the bank i.e. jan 2013 got pay fixed at Rs. 15,100.00 and my self Rs. 12,300.00 huge difference in basic whereas basic of naval Service was merely Rs. 200.00 .... I want to know is there any way to remove the barrier of DA while fittment as Vancancies in bank was filled up after the gap of 3 yers and we aresufering from the difference of DA....

Regards


Anup

Anonymous said...

Sir, it is now your turn. please do something for us otherwise we will be in problem. earlier you have done everything for us, now as per IBA bank has given a new circular for deduction of msp.

RAM KRISHNA DATTA said...

I think the IBA is playing game with the legitimate dues of the thousands of Ex-SM joining PSBs as their second innings otherwise what is harm in expressing it in a simple sentence that should go like " WHILE FIXING PAY FOR EX-SERVICEMEN THE INDIVIDUAL BANK SHOULD IGNORE THE ENTIRE PENSIONARY BENEFITS OF THEM(EX-SM) INCLUDING DEARNESS RELIEF WITH BASIC PENSION".Without doing so the IBA is continuously confusing and the banks are enjoing the state of confusion of clear order,sometimes reading between the imaginary lines. It is not that bank is the only option for a retired/retiring defence personnel.There are other avenues also opened to us. Before joining a bank it should be clear whether our interests will be protected or not, as to add fuel to the fire the SSC has said that the status of EX_SM in terms of quota in the category will cease even in the probationary period also.We should not waste our valuable time preparing for an organisation which simply denies our legitimate dues.Ex-SM earlier preferred banks mainly due to the fact that besides getting pay fixation the entire pension with DR was untouched if this doesn't happen THEN WHY TO JOIN BANK? WE HAVE LEFT DEFENCE SERVICES HAPPILY CAN LEAVE BANK ALSO SIMPLY. Ram Krishna Datta




















































































































































manu said...

Sir what is the policy of pay fixation for pbor joining as probationary officer.

Anonymous said...

Sir

Again SBI has started to deduct MSP in pay fixation of Ex Serviceman so we never know what things can happen on Ex service man,
plz clarify for the benefit of large ex service man employed in SBI.
with regards
JAI HIND
15 Aug 2014