Comments on Indian Military : Service Benefits and Issues: Social media and the Armed Forces : Need to refrai...

it seems that instead of becoming more advanced we...

2012-02-15T16:54:11.112+05:30

it seems that instead of becoming more advanced we are rocketing back to medieval times why doesn't fauj gives faujis CDMA mobiles (high encryption Tech) to be used for official purpose with CUG limitations no problem in hacking or closed ended OEM ie no one else could use this kind of software or programme unless cleared by an administrator or a multiple layeredadministrator then all faujis could yell out everything but in a closed cuircit

well said. Bravo!

2012-02-04T18:11:33.726+05:30

well said. Bravo!

@ Reason, Janaab, Pachis saalon se aap logon ki...

2012-02-03T11:25:07.606+05:30

@ Reason,
Janaab, Pachis saalon se aap logon ki baat sunte sunte pak gaya hoon. Fauj ka haal din-pe-din kharab hota gaya hai. Same simple commands - Do not apply your mind. Follow orders blindly. Do not fight the "system". Now every Tom Dick and Harry who has a Computer and reasonable hold in English tries to make a rule whether he has the maloom or not. Chamde ke sikke chal rahein hain. Now, who was the person who made this rule? (No Facebook allowed). I can get anyone's location to his nearest Civil Exchange* by hacking him or getting his IP address. So can anybody with simple tools. Why was this particular rule made then? Because somebody thought that the location of Army men could be found. Maybe the person who made the rule is in Army Intelligence and is quite unaware of the fact that as it is your location is known. I doubt it. Maybe the rule was made for no reason or because the person making the rule
a) Thought he has some superior knowledge.
b) Wants Fauj to earn MSP?
c) Realised that there is no way you can educate Fauj.
d) They realised that making an example out of 2 officers of Navy will fall flat on the face.
e) No such order has been passed and this info was posted on the web just to Gauge the reaction of the Army.

Remember, one inch given now will result in a foot being taken tomorrow. The Army will not be able to recover the Ground Lost for all eternity. Even if the Web becomes a safe vault, a right once relinquished will remain till eternity. Blind Faith & Reasonable response ka time nikal gaya dost. Ab bhi Jaag Jayo ya seekh lo.
Today it is Facebook, tommorow it will be e-mail. Day after it will be net banking ...

rajx i know u will not listen to any reasoned voi...

2012-02-02T20:45:41.661+05:30

rajx
i know u will not listen to any reasoned voice . this is youth . keep it up . are bhai jawani me khoon nahi garam hoga to kab hoga .

@ Air Marshal Savur, Sir. Going ahead with th...

2012-02-02T19:32:04.078+05:30

@ Air Marshal Savur,

Sir. Going ahead with the times and ways youngsters (including Hackers like Anonymous) operate, we need to generate so much of data that it is impossible to separate the Wheat from the Chaff. Operate like the Chindits, Guerrillas or Marxists. Mingle with the Public and adopt the Internet. In fact Army personnel should inundate the Net with duff info so that the en cannot glean actionable intelligence.
Regards,

Internet is a new medium to many in the Armed Forc...

2012-02-02T17:18:18.810+05:30

Internet is a new medium to many in the Armed Forces. And as happens with a new toy, there will be instances of playing with it too much to ascertain the limits. It also caters to the "media starvation" that many of us older timers were deprived of - the thrill of seeing our names in the paper or electronic media.

Instead to bringing the sledgehammer down on junior officers and other cadre, it would and should be the duty of the Defence and Services PROs to advise them on the implications of not being prudent and why TMI (Too Much Information) is not a good idea.

But we must encourage healthy interaction and express and discuss views for improvement of the MoD and the respective Services.

Air Mshl (retd) S Y Savur

I am reproducing below a letter that I happened to...

2012-01-31T10:00:46.965+05:30

I am reproducing below a letter that I happened to read. Hope he can be guided.
"Sir
I am Ex-Sgt from Air Force and joined SBI in clerical cader. I am not given the benifit of pay protection which i read on your blog at http://www.indianmilitary.info/2010/04/changes-in-pay-fixation-rules-on-re.html

here SBI is taking only our Basic Pay and DA only and not considering Grade Pay, MSP etc for pay protection.

I have been trying hard to get any letter or Govt orders, but could not achieve it.

May i request you, to please forward me details on pay protection for Ex-seviceman with reference to letter no etc or any soft copy of Govt orders etc you have with you."

His email address is
dineshjakhmola@yahoo.com

Gp Capt A B Mehta

It is very difficult and unreasonable to totaly ba...

2012-01-30T21:35:08.431+05:30

It is very difficult and unreasonable to totaly ban the use of social media by the Defence Personnel. A defence average family consists of siblings not totaly dedicated or employed in Defence Services. The following safeguards are suggested please :-
(a) Donot use Rank just the name or nickname.(b) No information of Armyactivities,location,photograph postings, promotions,grievances only general information etc.(c) Avoid character assessinations, unparliamentary language or offensive photos or things like it.PLAIN AND SIMPLE PARTICIPATE AS A AN AVERAGE DECENT CIVILIAN AND ALSO EDUCATE YOUR FAMILY MEMBERS TO DO THE SAME Best of luck and CHEERS

@Anonymous January 29, 2012:"..banning mob...

2012-01-29T21:23:10.866+05:30
@Anonymous January 29, 2012:"..banning mobile phones seems like a good idea to a few of the bloggers.."
That's not what anyone has been advocating here. There's certainly a need over such devices in secure areas, during sensitive situations or when ops are on.
What is all this talk of Tianneman square? That happened in the middle of Beijing. I am sure the Red Army does not permit it's personnel to be texting sms's to their families when they patrol their borders :-)

Internet as a system is here to stay, atleast it l...

2012-01-29T21:21:49.452+05:30
Internet as a system is here to stay, atleast it looks like that after PIPA/SOPA were withheld. Every system has its pros and cons and so is it with Internet. Just like we would not like our kids to be exposed to the dark side of internet, similarly the dark side needs to be explained to members of AF.

Not every one is tech savvy when it comes to Internet. One might be a great user of mobile services, but Internet is another being. Rather than banning or making things inaccessible, best is to educate people and of course make an example of people who err on the wrong side.

There is no doubt there is plethora of information available on Internet regarding everything about AF. But people do take information available on internet with a pinch of salt. Thus one doesn't have to be a willing partner in bed with someone looking out to "piece together the jigsaw".

remember when google showed all the sattelite imag...

2012-01-29T11:54:39.606+05:30
remember when google showed all the sattelite images on the net for every mortal being... people in power threw tantrums in name of national security.

banning mobile phones seems like a good idea to a few of the bloggers but look a bit into the future. no mobile phones, your officers won't understand the functioning of a smart phone. so when they see someone using it they won't be able to differentiate wehether he is spying or reading ebook of his course.

the security conceps that the armed servcices follow needs a relook with changing times. in 1962, 1965, 1971, 1984, indian govt banned news paper reports. 20 yrs later chinese govt couldn't hide tiamin square, with latest being, wikileaks.

somebody in security dept needs to have a relook at concept of security.

@Anonymous January 29, 2012: You are citing existi...

2012-01-29T11:29:34.320+05:30
@Anonymous January 29, 2012: You are citing existing potential sources through which security of information can be compromised. But, that does not mean we have to create an environment where such threats can multiply.
Indeed, the new communications paradigm poses challenges, and everyone needs to upgrade awareness levels all round to live and deal with this new reality.
There's no room for an ostrich like head in the sand orientation and to insist going back to ways of old is the only solution.
But to have another kind of head in the sand orientation with this attitude of "security be damned, my own convenience and networking aspirations come first" is hardly going to meet security requirements of the services.

Dear Maj Navdeep, I would like it if corona8, tika...

2012-01-29T10:11:39.874+05:30
Dear Maj Navdeep, I would like it if corona8, tikamchand, cherian etc can direct their opinions to my blog which I created yesterday (I have never blogged previously) so that I can counter their arguments there instead of spamming your Blog.
We in fauj learn 2 things - (a) Follow Orders (b) Do not apply your mind. Besides this some of us get better at unnecessary and specious argumentation and quoting rules. Pls direct them to :- http://hackmeifucann.blogspot.com/
They can also reach the blog by rightclicking my name.

Forces need to keep in tune with time.I agree with...

2012-01-29T10:05:45.744+05:30
Forces need to keep in tune with time.I agree with Navdeep in that ArmedForces need to strike a balance.Study how US Navy or Navies of western world are facing upto Social Media challenge. And many spouses of Army men are active and they may be unknowingly giving out info. So Armed Forces can set up a social networking and allow verified civilians to join that. Denying Social network would be a huge dampner for youth!

@ Col Kurup And you please search through your fi...

2012-01-29T00:37:53.342+05:30
@ Col Kurup

And you please search through your file for how many official letters are there which want the mobile number of the OIC of the event or QRT or Project. On one hand we want 24/7 availability of officers and then we want this primitve c/o 56 APO. Do you have any idea how many calls to officers right upto the Naval Chief may have been put through on his cellphone? And you think all of them were only for UNCLAS gossip?!!

@Col Kurup You certainly are one of the very prec...

2012-01-29T00:30:18.788+05:30
@Col Kurup

You certainly are one of the very precise examples of the proverbial frog in the well.

Do you have any idea of how many civilian vendors visit every unit of the Indian Army? How many Supply Orders and RFPs are floated in a Corps Zone? How many Baniya shops, casual labours, porters exist even in units occupying Siachen?

I won't challenge your technical solitude by highlighting larger issues but suffice to say that this stupid concept of C/O 56 APO and Tac Numbers is obsolete and downright stupid. 99% of the Infantry and Armoured units you'll find a board containing their Tac number on the road and on their entrance gate - a huge display of their entire history.

So who are we trying to fool here?

An excellent and very topical post Maj Navdeep. Th...

2012-01-29T00:09:57.436+05:30
An excellent and very topical post Maj Navdeep. The Navy action was outright shocking, its a case of ignorant seniors feeding on their own people.

On one hand we have policy letters stating Army Officers should be educated about social networking, including practicals, and then we have this total disconnect. There is also a huge chatter about Net Centric Warfare & automation but then we also have some illiterate seniors of WW2 vintage who want to isolate the organisation into a well.

Almost the entire ORBAT including locations and names of Commanders is freely available on the Internet not just for India but most large nations.

It is the senior who ordered this action who needs to be court martialled for causing harm to the organisation instead of these convenient middle rung scapegoats. We didn't stop fighting in the night once NVDs were invented but some folks don't understand that the battlefield and the world is increasingly becoming transparent and information is there to be searched.

Thanks a lot for raising the issue.

rajax yes no body can force u to believe what is t...

2012-01-28T22:44:01.401+05:30
rajax yes no body can force u to believe what is told , but as long as u are in fauz or in any service private or civil or fauz , u can be forced to obey what is told to u , even if u dont believe it . believe it or not this is the prevailing practice and u also follow this .

rajx cool down . u may not be under surveillance ....

2012-01-28T22:38:51.121+05:30
rajx cool down . u may not be under surveillance . but greater discretion is necessary while online . i know one of my friend got cheated of rs 9 lakhs tfd out of his account to an account in remote villege . there are numereous incidence of breach of radio security in units . in my view careless and defiant attitude is not required . in my view there is no need of a gag order . but certainly greater training and awareness about internet security is required . yes there are living proof . recently web site of a defence organisation in india was hacked and posted with malacious trojans trojans . even i have experienced numereous phising attacks on website of many big banks to steal pass word and txn password . my fried was cheated for 9 lakhs . though the amount was recovered with the help of police but it was was possible only by online fraud . so there is nothing wrong to follow established procedures . i am sure we can all be online communicating and putting our point forward , and same time adrees security related concerns . care and an toward security is must . here we need to change old notions of security . if we installed a big board out side our unit prominently displaying name , then any passer by can tell this unit is here . similarly by satellites in the sky a lot of info about us about enemy is available to enemy . the need here is to be cautious .

@Rajax said,"I am yet to see proof or actual ...

2012-01-28T21:53:01.548+05:30
@Rajax said,"I am yet to see proof or actual news except claims.": Sorry to butt in, but people don't really hack into blogs and email accounts at random without a clear cut aim.
I don't think the threat of hacking is something we can be complacent about. Just because we haven't noticed anything amiss doesn't mean others have not had a look see into our so called 'confidential' or 'private' details online.
Also, any radio signal can give away the position of the source. Under operational situations, its best there are no individual signal sources which are not under control of an authority figure in a formation or on board an aircraft or ship. That's a very basic requirement.
But, restricting peace time use of a networking website for purely private and personal matters, or maintaining a blog are different issues.
The authorities may need to devise ways and means to keep the official and personal interactions separate on peace locations.

@ Dhoop, "hackers will use the info for t...

2012-01-28T19:34:39.990+05:30
@ Dhoop,
"hackers will use the info for their own advantage"- let's see. They haven't exactly got the info for the last 6-8 years that I have been online. I doubt they are as interested as civilian babus and conspiracy theorists who try to clip our wings.
"thousands of high profile instances of hacking and smaller incidents" - I am yet to see proof or actual news except claims. Anonymous brings down websites but I am yet to know of a non-idiot "person" being hacked if he takes common sense precautions. I am a willing victim. Let the powers to be who are trying to put the brakes prove it.

I may be mistaken but it is easier to triangulate the open frequencies on which the ships transmit. A normal handheld set ($ 180-200) on a Dhow is enough to pinpoint the frequency and thereafter triangulate. The "little presents being sent" are overrated since IN ships are not exactly sitting ducks. Never mind popular stories of Exocets and ARMs. BTW, Exocets and Anti Ship Missiles are not exactly picked up in the open market. Since you seem to be a Service Person, I pity those civilians who will apply their half baked knowledge to things military including what they think "Military Discipline" should be. [In fact, my Father, a Civilian, speaks more eloquently and has much stronger views than me about Mil discipline]. Instead of spamming Navdeep's Blog, may I request you to comment on my blog (created today to prove a point and will be operated for next 365 days)
http://hackmeifucann.blogspot.com/
Instead of arguing, let's take forward this experiment.
Regards,
I'm just another Fauji who no longer believes everything I'm told.

@Rajax: "I hereby request anyone who knows...

2012-01-28T17:51:32.482+05:30
@Rajax: "I hereby request anyone who knows how to hack to hack my profile"

The trouble is those who can hack into your profile or other confidential information online may not be among the readership of this blog and, also, may not consider it worth their while to be sending you the hacked details. I suspect they'd rather use it themselves to their own advantage.

If the contention is such a thing is impossible, I'm afraid, that's ignoring thousands of high profile instances of such things having come to pass. The smaller incidents are in the news everyday. So there's no point in being smug over the issue.

You are quite wrong about mobile towers being required to track a transmitter of any sort at sea. If you have a cellphone radiating at sea, its signal can be picked up and co-ordinates established by any unfriendly agency with the means. The unfriendly agency won't say, "Hey Rajax, thanks for sending us the information. Please put on uour life jacket as a little present for you and your shipmates is on the way".

At the same time, there is no need to throw the baby out with the bath water, which I assume your point is. There are effective means available to monitor, and control, misuse of modern personal communication aids, the knowledge of which needs to be gained by the organizations which may find the sensitivity of their operations and procedures threatened.

As the revolution of IT cannot be bar for the forc...

2012-01-28T17:25:14.683+05:30
As the revolution of IT cannot be bar for the forces its high time we frame rules and regulation acceptable both for the organisation and the indl but banning cannot be a solution for long term remedy, if AF is so concerned abv security then what abv the software we use for smart card where all the details of the whole AF are with the firm which i doubt is a govt undertaking...

To put my money where my mouth is, I hereby reques...

2012-01-28T15:16:42.281+05:30
To put my money where my mouth is, I hereby request anyone who knows how to hack to hack my profile, mail, desktop, passwords, bank accounts, e-mail, mobiles, credit cards and post the info to me. I will give credit to those, who do not use info provided officially / like info with Maj Navdeep as the site admin etc... . Also, proof as to how info about me hacked by them has somehow had "security implications" will be given extra credit. For starters I have added a few things to my profile. HACK ON. PROVE IT. Follow on comments will be e-mailed to me.

@ Col NR Kurup Jan 28 @ 0812 h Sir, The problem ...

2012-01-28T15:10:02.257+05:30
@ Col NR Kurup Jan 28 @ 0812 h
Sir, The problem exists with Senior Officers such as you who will believe in anything they hear without having the knowledge and / or technical expertise. Do you know that Mobiles require Mobile Towers- not available at Sea. Hence even Mai Ka Lal cannot triangulate / fix your position at sea. Mobile Nos of personnel cannot be collected so easily as Army personnel are generally closed groups. Even if all the nos of a paltan are available with someone which for example, goes to a frash location, the location cannot be found unless data is taken from the mobile company. Mobile Company data is possibly, not available to every Tom Dick or Harry. Your points killed. Sorry.

Comments on Indian Military : Service Benefits and Issues: Social media and the Armed Forces : Need to refrai...

it seems that instead of becoming more advanced we...

well said. Bravo!

@ Reason, Janaab, Pachis saalon se aap logon ki...

rajx i know u will not listen to any reasoned voi...

@ Air Marshal Savur, Sir. Going ahead with th...

Internet is a new medium to many in the Armed Forc...

I am reproducing below a letter that I happened to...

It is very difficult and unreasonable to totaly ba...

@Anonymous January 29, 2012:"..banning mob...

Internet as a system is here to stay, atleast it l...

remember when google showed all the sattelite imag...

@Anonymous January 29, 2012: You are citing existi...

Dear Maj Navdeep, I would like it if corona8, tika...

Forces need to keep in tune with time.I agree with...

@ Col Kurup And you please search through your fi...

@Col Kurup You certainly are one of the very prec...

An excellent and very topical post Maj Navdeep. Th...

rajax yes no body can force u to believe what is t...

rajx cool down . u may not be under surveillance ....

@Rajax said,"I am yet to see proof or actual ...

@ Dhoop, "hackers will use the info for t...

@Rajax: "I hereby request anyone who knows...

As the revolution of IT cannot be bar for the forc...

To put my money where my mouth is, I hereby reques...

@ Col NR Kurup Jan 28 @ 0812 h Sir, The problem ...