tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post6787122164249079063..comments2024-02-08T22:01:40.101+05:30Comments on Indian Military : Service Benefits and Issues: Abhinav replies and amplifies : join the debateNavdeep / Maj Navdeep Singhhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11481215977936848477noreply@blogger.comBlogger79125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-38883020014938317702016-01-14T03:45:00.329+05:302016-01-14T03:45:00.329+05:30Interesting takes though could not go thru all.Abh...Interesting takes though could not go thru all.Abhinav while stating the HT version was edited has not published here his original version.<br />When the Brits ruled as in the movie Jewel in the Crown,Cops were on deputation to the Army.Clubs started by the Army were focal points for bonhomie and bonding over a tipple.Civilians took over and we have the Bangalore Club spats.Abhinav has ot looked at the root causes.<br />Mahadev Godbole frankly speaks of his IAS connected book project sponsors while explaining how Nehrus biggest regret was not restructing.A case in point is IPS schoolmate Bipin Gopalkrishna now in pain hopefully recovering,on Amirs Satyamae highlighting reform in the Police Act and the video link showing the Brit Commisioner indicating in the UK how the Commissioner starts as a beat constable.<br />I always maintained with regard to wastage and corruption,Govt is the biggest criminal with only the degree varying.<br />Unless Fiscal and Admin reforms are done at the root cause level,nothing will change.Lean and Mean force multiplier Forces,Cognizable warrants for EC's use etc.For this FOCUSSED assertive public should insist on tax money utilisation display transparently by MPs/ MLA's.kopterkojakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18446617907720033084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-16720572257374522522015-04-22T15:14:38.377+05:302015-04-22T15:14:38.377+05:30Dear Friend,
A very rational and well expressed v...Dear Friend, <br />A very rational and well expressed view by the young IPS officer cum journalists earlier. <br />Having said that the problem has come up, as I have been saying for the past 30 years, due to the IAS lobby who came under corrupt and wily politicians with one aim to fill their pockets and egos with total disregard to the Nation. <br />They felt that having gained independence and their sole aim is to make their kith and kin comfortable since they deserve it for their sacrifice to free the country from the yoke of the foreign ruler. <br />Early leaders had some ethos, good morals and indulged in privileges, grant of largese to selected few but with time and more rustic politicians started to fill the august houses of the state and the country and the standards seeped and then the idealistic civil servants too saw that all talk of right, fair,just and moral was brushed aside by the political leader that morality is for the rhetoric only. <br />A new kind of Babu was born who felt damn your conscience take what you can as it is the politicians are looting the country why should not I.<br />In this aura, atmosphere of officialdom the men who trusted and held the nation as sacrosanct was ARMY or FAUJ. They being just 1 to 2% of the nation's population could not escape falling prey to the cancerous disease of corruption that was fanned by the top to bottom. The Fauji saw the worst kind of humanity were getting rich and powerful but the law abiding soldier was being treated as a pariah!<br />The petty minded officials also felt that there is just one organization that does not toe its line and that is FAUJ! Always Fauji feels superior and above us and their assets of Uniform, discipline and training to live and die for the nation was becoming a pin in the neck to them. Envy and hatred grew in hearts to evoke the urge that they need to be shown the power of the pen of the Babu and hence started the implantation of the disease that was nurtured and developed to its cancerous end in last 30 years. <br />Sadly it took just one Maj Dhanapalan to blow their game away. Now for the past 25 years they are fighting the rearguard action to somehow not allow their nefarious acts, deeds and misdeeds to be exposed in its totality. They play on the fear of the politicians and also use all their acumen in legal Jalebis they weave to keep us meshed in the kind of emotional as well as Rashtriya jargon to try and disallay us from the truth. <br />The truth is we are being pulverized to tow the orders of the Babu Lobby to ensure their supremacy is not overthrown at any cost. <br />Sorry friend if my long tirade seems emotional but my argument is based on the Principle of Soldiery- Pride in Uniform; Faith in their Officers; TRUST of the Nation that they will not let their families to dogs in case the soldier pays the ultimate price. <br />They did that for the Police Constable with pride making him no less a hero than Vikram Batra or Hamid. <br />Jaihind!<br />Tangential Man!<br />Air Veteran!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05641127300697246704noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-32172167401758160482009-04-06T21:06:00.000+05:302009-04-06T21:06:00.000+05:30Mr. Abhinav,The parallels drawn by you are somehow...Mr. Abhinav,<BR/>The parallels drawn by you are somehow unconvincing and un asked for. Firstly you only come up with the artical and then its you only who tries to say that the rage shown by Army officers is uncalled for. <BR/>I think your statements itself are contradictory and as brought out earlier also you should check your facts. If you check up then you will hardly find any B.Tech. student appearing in civil services exam. Its the students of M.tech. who appear in civil services exam and there is a reason to it. Taking admission in M.tech. gives them time and the money of scholarship to pursue their dream of civil services. So next time pls check up and then speak.<BR/>Another point I want to tell you is that the respect for the OG will not diminish by raising a point against hedonism of civil servants cos even today also if you go to public i.e. AAM JANTA you will have your answer that whom do they respect more.<BR/>Irony of this nation is that we have such meek and weak political system that our politicians have to agree to whatever the beaurucrats say cos they themselves have shady deals which these beaurucrats might disclose.<BR/>You should thank Armed Forces that we are still serving this nation of nincompoop politicians and corrupt beaurucrats. Wait for the day when this very AAM JANTA greets you with sandals and chappalsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-40120712931982115092009-04-05T18:45:00.000+05:302009-04-05T18:45:00.000+05:30Friends, here is Abhinav's rejoinder on your comme...Friends, here is Abhinav's rejoinder on your comments :<BR/><BR/><BR/>Dear Sir,<BR/> <BR/>It has been a little over a week since you kindly agreed to post my response on your blog. As I write this about 70 odd responses have been posted, I think mostly by officers from the Armed Forces, and a few of them have asked me to respond further. I am responding at some length even at the risk of repeating some of my points.<BR/> <BR/>Some of the remarks posted by officers under the comfort of anonymity were disappointing. The Army Act is a poor excuse for not having the courage of your convictions to own up to your opinions. The officers who did this in my humble opinion are neither true to the military ethos nor show any attempt to seriously understand the predicament faced by police forces across the country. My writings have got me into trouble with the authorities too but as a public servant that is a small price to pay for joining the debate on issues of national interest. <BR/> <BR/>Our police forces grew out of the Armed Forces of the British Raj. Not only this but for many years in the British Raj civil and police assignments were routinely given to Army officers who were to be eased out due to less than bright prospects in mainstream soldiering. This is a historical fact but we cannot be hostages to history and this legacy cannot form the basis of the attitude that an Army officer can do a better job of running civil administration which is more than evident in many responses on your blog. <BR/> <BR/>Talking about my own profession the British saw the police merely as an accessory to the Armed Forces in maintaining their rule. The needs of criminal justice, prevention and detection of crime and public service were not a significant part of their scheme of things. And so at the time of Independence we had a police force that was little more than an ancillary gang of thugs for advancing the colonial imperative of which the Armed Forces were the prime guarantor. Turning a blind eye to brutality and petty corruption, suppressing professionalism by treating the police as poor cousins of the Armed Forces and encouraging a general sense of alienation from the common man were essential elements of this strategy. Despite 60 years of independence we have been unable to get rid of this legacy. Someone quoted an example of a Major being appointed as IG of Amritsar in the early years of the 20th century, that might have worked then, but to suggest that this would work now betrays both arrogance and ignorance of the professional aspects of policing in equal measure. The IPS must bear the primary responsibility for redressing the worst aspects of this legacy but we need a fair amount of understanding from the Armed Forces which judging from the tenor of many of the posts is not very likely in the present scenario. <BR/> <BR/>The military sub culture lays emphasis on discipline, sacrifice, physical courage and a tightly knit espirit de corps that requires a deep rooted sense of exclusivity. But it is sad to see from the responses on your blog that this has also apparently led to a less than healthy sense of contempt and incomprehension for other professions. The values mentioned above are also important in the police sub culture but these have to be tempered in our case by the chaotic demands of democratic accountability. Police work today requires a whole range of intellectual and interpersonal skills over and above physical prowess. In the battlefield I would never be as brave or skilled as my counterparts in the Armed Forces, but place a police officer in front of a violent mob of a few thousand people with only a handful of men armed with obsolete weapons and lathis and this object of your contempt somehow delivers. I hope you appreciate that this too requires not merely courage, but also requires patience and presence of mind and a sense of empathy for the rage and frustrations of our fellow citizens, and which is why every day across the country 9 out of 10 times that mob goes home without a major incident. As a profession policing deserves respect and serious thought in its own right as much as medicine, law or soldiering. It is a key element of a criminal justice system and the rule of law, both essential to a democratic society. That it has been unable to do so in our country is a sad comment not merely on the IPS but on other institutions too such as the Armed Forces who have actively sought to belittle it. <BR/> <BR/>Some of the respondents have talked about the fact how the Army is called to clean up the mess after every major calamity and still it is given a raw deal when it comes to Pay Commissions and the Warrant of Precedence. We in the police daily face the brunt of public anger for situations that are completely out of our control. There is a power shortage, burn the police chowki, there is a water shortage let's gherao the thana, there is unemployment let's block the highway, we want reservations for our caste, let's lynch a few cops. We in the police today are the lightening rod for all the public anger directed at the failures of the Indian state. So should we also adopt the attitude that we have no responsibility for attending to this mess? On one hand officers on your blog have been preaching the virtues of the Armed Forces in always responding to national crises as the defender of democracy and protector of the nation and on the other hand they seem to think it is a favour the Armed Forces are doing to civil society. The inherent contradiction and irony of this position is not acknowledged.<BR/> <BR/> <BR/>You are fortunate in the Armed Forces that your internal organization and administration is still largely insulated from our corrupt and dysfunctional democracy. We in the police, despite the best efforts of successive generations of dedicated IPS officers to gain professional autonomy, alas do not have that luxury and are expected to deliver sometimes with both hands tied. There is no peace time posting for us, where we can rest, regroup, provide much needed leave and training. In the worst governed parts of the country police officers have an average tenure of less than 6 months. The outcome of criminal investigations are openly determined by political considerations. The men and women who we may pursue and prosecute as criminals end up as public representatives who we have to protect and salute. Our training is neglected, our weapons and infrastructure are obsolete, our men are housed and clothed in wretched conditions. The IPS bears responsibility for this sad state of affairs but it is not a situation entirely of our own making or something we can redress on our own. Reform in the police is required on all fronts, especially on the issues of better performance, accountability and the sense of public service. Surely a key element of reform will have to be improving the living and working conditions of our police forces. But if better pay and working conditions for the men in khaki are always going to invite protests from our cousins in olive green then it is going to be a hopeless task. It is a separate matter that the plight of the jawan, whether in the armed Forces or in the police is now cynically used as a pawn by their respective elites to gain further privileges for themselves. <BR/> <BR/>I respectfully disagree with the officers who claim that corruption in the Armed Forces is negligible or not a cause for concern. The recent controversy over the transfer of Gen Panag from the Northern Command is a case in point. It is not enough to say there is no corruption in the fighting arms and it is only the blokes in ASC or Ordnance who practice corruption. This is reflective of the caste system that is internally prevalent in the Armed Forces. Of course corruption in the Armed Forces is not directly at the expense of the common man and therefore it does not translate into a strong negative perception as it does in the case of the police. But as a few officers have accepted on your blog, it does exist, it is serious and it is just as detrimental to the national interest as corruption elsewhere.<BR/> <BR/>This does not in any justify police corruption, nobody can deny that it exists, at the lower level it is all pervasive and at the higher levels it is a much more serious cause for concern. This is something I have extensively commented upon but if the argument is that because the police are corrupt they don't deserve better pay or working conditions is a vicious circle that we will have to break out of at some point. <BR/><BR/> <BR/>With regard to the All India Services, our Founding Fathers had a clear vision for them to play an important role in the task of nation building. To the extent that Sardar Patel threatened to resign if the Constituent Assembly did not accept his position. Of course the IAS/IPS have fallen well short of the expectations but that to my mind creates a case for civil service reform and not civil service bashing. Please remember that even today the best of the IITs and IIMs aspire to end up in the civil services. Some youngsters may want to join the civil services today with the unscruplous motive of securing a big dowry and then embarking on a life long career in corruption. However to say all of us are like that is uncalled for. I am sad to see that our officers of the Armed Forces who responded on your blog have such little appreciation for the undeniable intellectual pedigree of the civil services. At any given time even the IAS and the IPS have 15-20% vacancies against their authorised strength. So to point to the shortage of officers in the Armed Forces as proof that they are no longer an attractive career for youngsters and therefore they must be given the status they enjoyed in 1947 is simply not valid. <BR/> <BR/>On the issue of Lt Col and their equation with the DC and SP, I would reiterate that the basic unit of our governance is the district and the DC more so and the SP to a lesser extent share responsibility for it. The authority they wield and the responsibilities they have are in the present peacetime scenario are perhaps of greater relevance, for both better or worse, to the lives of a common citizen than a Lt Colonel. This ground reality will not change even if Lt Colonels were given the pay and allowances and protocol of the Cabinet Secretary. The point I am reiterating is that the Armed Forces have their own organizational requirements that dictate their pyramid and promotional avenues and to demand that civil services should be subject to the same is neither practical nor in the wider public interest. The Army may require at least 15-20 years experience before an officer is given independent command as a full colonel or equivalent. In the civilian setup the requirement is less in terms of no of years of service. But to argue that this means the civil services are not professional or less professional than the Armed Forces on this ground alone amounts to comparing apples and oranges. The responses on your blog show a shocking ignorance or indifference to the complexities and challenges of civil administration amongst our Armed Forces and this is neither good for the Armed Forces nor good for the nation.<BR/> <BR/>Many respondents have rightly pointed out that the Armed Forces are the most respected institution in the country today. But this respect will not remain unchanged if the officers of the Armed Forces revel in mudslinging their civilian counterparts, or adopt trade union like tactics to push their demands, or do not show proper appreciation of the constraints in managing the evolution of a developing society within a democratic system. While my writings may have angered many serving and retired members of the Armed Forces, even though I never questioned either their patriotism or professionalism while the same courtesy has not been reciprocated, many common citizens have expressed agreement with my arguments. Perhaps now this unfortunate saga of the 6th CPC is behind us, all of us, soldier and civilian alike, can go back to our primary task of serving our country.<BR/> <BR/>warm regards<BR/> <BR/>Abhinav KumarNavdeep / Maj Navdeep Singhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11481215977936848477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-15045199408406864782009-04-05T14:02:00.000+05:302009-04-05T14:02:00.000+05:30Well I respect Mr Karkere and his collegues sacrif...Well I respect Mr Karkere and his collegues sacrifice. The only difference is awards gave a touch of nationalistic considerations. It was also covered by Srinivas jain of NDTV. Nevertheless any loss of life in the line of duty is truly worthy of 21 Gun salutes.The public is also wise enough to understand the grades of valour. Definitely Army soldiers die differently as compared to Navy/AF/Police.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-31543573795962311592009-03-30T18:18:00.000+05:302009-03-30T18:18:00.000+05:30Bravo Mr Kumar! So now you want to co-opt the Serv...Bravo Mr Kumar! So now you want to co-opt the Services in observing the 'Omerta' Code being followed by the politicians, Bureaucrats and Policemen in the country! Is the aim to devalue one of the last honours and awards in the country that still carry some credibility-namely gallantry awards.<BR/><BR/>Well done!!!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17016702734077330274noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-44285335275662239972009-03-28T23:17:00.000+05:302009-03-28T23:17:00.000+05:30Abhinav. Nothing personal, but since you began thi...<B> Abhinav. Nothing personal, but since you began this debate it is but natural that people expect you to respond. Your silence may give people the feeling that you have chickened out after shooting your mouth in a frenzy. After this Ashok Chakra awards 2009 episode there is a general feeling amongst service personnel that the Indian Policemen are not proud of their identity and need to piggy back upon the image of the Armed forces right from aping miltary uniforms to preffering military awards over duly constituted awards of,and for the Police. That self respect is missing which leads to poor morale and professional conduct.<BR/> Your views are respected but will hold better credibility if they stand up to an open debate.</B>menonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-13939237495585257772009-03-27T22:23:00.000+05:302009-03-27T22:23:00.000+05:30Let us face truths as they come. The civilside get...Let us face truths as they come. The civilside gets what they want because of the favours done to politicians while in and out of power. just see the musical chair when the Govt changes. So far they had left the Army alone.Another roumer has it that what we see are first steps of a clever move to put the Army under the police and IAS for anti-naxal operations. The police had been wanting to get out of this for a long time.In this design they already have the support of of our many arm-chair soldiers and specialists in various univs and think tanks a-la-US style.As for bravery awards well he has to defend it somehow.It is just one of those things like the Rajyasabha seats. The difference between what the founding fathers wanted and what we see to-day.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-19714152900573237062009-03-27T20:03:00.000+05:302009-03-27T20:03:00.000+05:30Dear Abhinav,Keep up the good work.I wish we had m...Dear Abhinav,<BR/>Keep up the good work.I wish we had many more like you then these Babus wouldn't have ignored us for so many years. I am surprised if Indian Military cannot be like Pakistan's; our military could have atleast done a "BDR" to these faceless babus after such a humiliation in sixth CPC. <BR/>Look at their guts, they continue to measure military's patience!!!It's high time the Indian Army produces a "Musharaf" or there could be a BDR or in the worst case Indian military will be reduced to the level of private security.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-74501434790761837422009-03-27T09:02:00.000+05:302009-03-27T09:02:00.000+05:30Mr. Abhinav seems to have gone into hibernation af...Mr. Abhinav seems to have gone into hibernation after writing a few articles, which unfortunately the Armed Forces officers cann't counter in media due to service constraints. I'm sure these rules will change with times as our democracy becomes more mature and stronger with the help of our countrymen , aided by the ever sacrificing Armed Forces.I request him to update himself professionally like The Armed Forces , lead his men like a true leader and do a stint in SAG of NSG alongwith others of IPS fraternity. This will help in allowing The Armed Forces to give due attention to their primary role, which has become all the more crucial in the present scenario.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-43489371987911923132009-03-26T22:33:00.000+05:302009-03-26T22:33:00.000+05:30Ashoka chakra to police officers in 26/11 was a po...Ashoka chakra to police officers in 26/11 was a political chakra. Read the citation of these officers & you would realise that if they were in the Army, they wouldn't have even got a handshake from their superiors.Please donot politicise the Ashoka Chakras.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-49348905461865469612009-03-25T07:31:00.000+05:302009-03-25T07:31:00.000+05:30Abhinav, You have read the views of the Services &...<B>Abhinav, You have read the views of the Services & we expect you to get into a meaningful debate on the aspects discussed here. <BR/>This would help in removing any biase, if it exists.</B> <BR/>Can we have your views on the points discussed here?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-37385019958870625112009-03-24T21:03:00.000+05:302009-03-24T21:03:00.000+05:30Section 21. Public ServantThe words "public servan...Section 21. Public Servant<BR/><BR/><BR/>The words "public servant" denote a person falling under any of the descriptions hereinafter following namely:- <BR/><BR/>1[* ****]<BR/><BR/>Second.- Every Commissioned Officer in the Military, 2[Naval or Air] Forces 3[4[* * *] of India];<BR/><BR/>gentlemen,<BR/>basically i want to stress that our Indian law has made defence and sister service ie IPS and IAS<BR/>as equals.By special provisions exercised the officers can be shifted,so why not to exercise this in catching corrupt officers and sending to kala pani!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-82443172243592909882009-03-24T20:46:00.000+05:302009-03-24T20:46:00.000+05:30dear all,greetings,let's welcum abhi with open han...dear all,<BR/>greetings,<BR/>let's welcum abhi with open hands as a person from armed forces can be transferred to sister services with the sanction of the president and vice-versa. so to say that all evils can be transferred to less lucrative/less oppurtunity posts and dedicated souls be transferred to places where such openings will close automatically.<BR/>let's all join together to make a less corrupt world by actions not by mere words.<BR/>media should play a prominent role<BR/>to ensure free and safe transitions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-18724038779983120842009-03-24T13:33:00.000+05:302009-03-24T13:33:00.000+05:30I want to make just one point for Mr Abhinav. If h...I want to make just one point for Mr Abhinav. If he thinks bravery awards are to be given based on emotions and public opinion then I feel he is grossly off the mark. Going by his standards every soldier who goes out on patrol or some other operation and falls to enemy bullets desrves to be given an Ashok Chakra. If they still insist on their fallacious and dangerous logic of handing out gallantary awards based on sob stories defence forces must dlink their system of awards and have entirely differen catagories of gallantary awards which are offerd to defence personnel based on sringent criteria in rare cases. Police officers are mere Babus in uniform and will not understand this logic and go on denegrating the gallantry awards. We must make a departure before the gallantry awards become mere gongs and start attracting redicule. It is beyond Mr Abhinav to understand this logic.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-24761165843374793742009-03-23T14:38:00.000+05:302009-03-23T14:38:00.000+05:30Dear Friends,We have allowed people like Mr Abhina...Dear Friends,<BR/><BR/>We have allowed people like Mr Abhinav to think that they are superior to GOD... Well that is what his writings reek of..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-86683878587027836282009-03-22T20:22:00.000+05:302009-03-22T20:22:00.000+05:30Rejoinder to what i wrote earlier,Abhinav, u may b...Rejoinder to what i wrote earlier,<BR/><BR/>Abhinav, u may be a good writer but all writer/journalists do not become good policemen. the way ur writing u surely look like some human rights activist.<BR/><BR/>so my advice to u stop bothering about services and parity issues. concentrate on police reforms instead. <BR/><BR/>Are u aware that in some news report by ur peers(journos) the Karnataka police HQs was over staffed with IPS offrs. It looks like nobody wants to go to rural areas to serve, but want to stay put in the cities only for reasons best known to them.<BR/><BR/>with so much cleanup actions required in house why are u bothered about others. set ur house in order first and then think about othersRajababuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02733255747637003342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-79124097343219764282009-03-22T17:46:00.000+05:302009-03-22T17:46:00.000+05:30Anon @21 Mar 9:02 PM,I hope mr abhinav reads your ...Anon @21 Mar 9:02 PM,<BR/>I hope mr abhinav reads your comments with out any delay.<BR/>I appreciate your clarity of thoughts and frankness. <BR/><BR/>well said dude. keep it up.<BR/>Best wishes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-44804508655436806812009-03-22T14:13:00.000+05:302009-03-22T14:13:00.000+05:30Dear Mr. Abhinav Kumar'We are yet to receive your ...Dear Mr. Abhinav Kumar'<BR/><BR/>We are yet to receive your comments on straight statements by Anonymous@ March 20, 6:24pm.<BR/><BR/>Waiting for THE ENLIGHTENMENT.<BR/><BR/>AnonymousAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-32359078039355257062009-03-22T09:47:00.000+05:302009-03-22T09:47:00.000+05:30i hope our esteemed IPS officer reads the comments...i hope our esteemed IPS officer reads the comments and try and understand them objectivelyUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10439871966922347692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-6685346344505413022009-03-22T09:14:00.000+05:302009-03-22T09:14:00.000+05:30REJOINDER TO MR ABHINAV KUMAR’S BLOGThe Warrant of...REJOINDER TO MR ABHINAV KUMAR’S BLOG<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>The Warrant of Precedence fixed at the time of Independence was a bench mark. The question is, why should it be changed? Why has the need arisen now? Have the Armed Forces become less important? Has their efficiency and performance gone down? Have their sacrifices become less worthy and infrequent? Have the Armed Forces of India tried to usurp power necessitating their down gradation? Or have the other civil services become more important or produced result out of proportion to their assigned role and expectations? Before one decides to make changes one needs to answer these questions. The fact of the matter is, the bureaucracy has been gradually and in a systematic manner lowering the pay scales of the Servicemen deliberately, so as to lower them in the order of precedence. Why? and with whose permission? Or is it connivance? <BR/><BR/>The second issue is what is the basis for the Warrant of Precedence? Pay? Is it more fundamental than sacrifices, discipline, dedication and dependability of a service? Is the Warrant of Precedence meant to indicate to the people of the country as to who draws greater pay?<BR/><BR/>Why should a bureaucrat who has no special skills, training or expertise get the top pay bracket amongst All India Government Services and thus be ahead of other services in the order of precedence? What comparative sacrifices have they made during their service, to the country or to the people warranting them to draw the highest pay? Are we accepting his association, closeness and accessibility to the politician as the criteria for his status? Should we as a matured nation accept such a position? Why in the first place are we suffering these generic bureaucrats when specialists and much better qualified persons with greater experience are available in the country to run the Government? I have no doubt that Service Officers can any day run the Defence Ministry much better than the bureaucrats. Is this system of recruiting bureaucrats to run the administration of the country adopted at the time of independence sacrosanct? Is it because the change is being blocked? <BR/><BR/>The bureaucrat handles issues of pay scales of all the Government Services including his own. How can he decide on his own pay scales? By virtue of his position he places himself in an advantageous position with no rhyme or reason. This is not being fair to the rest of the work force and to the tax payer. Here we have a situation where the player of one of the teams has become a referee of the match with permission to shift the goal post at his will. Is it sacrosanct that he receives the highest pay scales and remains on top of the Warrant of Precedence? Shouldn’t a non IAS department or team handle the pay and status issues of the bureaucracy? A bureaucrat is no more than a staff officer to a Minister. He neither a leader nor a commander. <BR/><BR/>The next question is, why should the warrant of precedence be changed surreptitiously by the bureaucracy? Who should have the authority to lower or upgrade the Warrant of Precedence of a service? The bureaucracy? If such a position is acceptable, why not allow the constitution to be amended by the bureaucracy which too was drafted at the time of Independence?<BR/><BR/>Every individual who takes up a career does so to meet his needs both physical and psychological. Some join a service for income, some for fame, some for pleasure of carrying out research and thus serving the humanity etc. We in the Armed Forces have joined the service for its way of life, discipline and the honour and prestige which the country bestows on its soldiers compared to the others. No one, least of all the bureaucracy has the right to snatch it from us at their will and thus deny us the very basis of one’s entry into the Services. <BR/><BR/>The steep pyramid in the armed forces and the high rates of attrition at each rank, are features that exist not due to the internal logic of the Armed Forces but because of the need to maintain a young and a responsive force. Like in the Police, would it be alright to have a Major General each heading each of the branches in a divisional headquarters and an additional one working as the head of the fighting elements? Isn’t it a joke? Are we not subverting the system? Is this internal logic acceptable to any rational and thinking man? <BR/><BR/>The author has stated that the sheer size of the officer cadre of the Armed Forces makes it next to impossible to make a meaningful comparison with the much smaller IAS/IPS cadres. Is it the fault of the Officer Cadre? What is the rank wise officer man ratio in the services versus other services? If the country needs a large standing Army, the strength of the armed forces including the strength of the officer cadre will obviously go up. Incidentally, why are we comparing the pay scales of the Officers alone? What about the troops? Compare their income, service conditions, physical hardships, risks, family life, retirement age, problems of re - employment, pension and family pension with that of the other Government Services. Are we being fair to this component of our society? <BR/><BR/>Isn’t what Sam Manekshaw achieved in 1971 significant and decisive? Has our country ever achieved such a glory any time in the past or is there any possibility of such a victory in any foreseeable future? Is that any less than the services provided by the other services or individuals in this country? Did he not deserve the Bharat Ratna? Can one not spot the contempt in this straight forward issue? What message are we trying to send to the youth and people of this country? <BR/><BR/>The author has talked of corruption. Corruption may exist in the Defence Forces but I can say with total confidence that the extent of corruption in the services is much lower than in the other services. In fact I can say that the corruption in the Fighting Arms is almost negligible. One needs to serve in the services to understand what I am stating. The civil society from where the stock comes has changed and the change in the Armed Forces is but inevitable. <BR/><BR/>The sacrifices made by the Policemen in the Mumbai incident are no less than what the personnel of any other service in the country have ever made. The losses to the families of these men are no less either. No one questions the emotional wisdom and affection of civil society when it chose to honor them. The Services, specially the fighting arms are fully aware as to what it means to sacrifice one’s life in a situation like this. The question that has risen does not refer to the award per se but to the award of Ashok Chakra which is considered equivalent to Param Vir Chakra and is awarded after very careful scrutiny purely on the merit of bravery shown in fighting. These men could have been awarded a very special medal or decoration constituted for this very operation along with a monetary award. No one would have said a word. The result is, the value of these two decorations stand degraded and it would be a Herculean task for any commander to explain the non grant of such an award to a servicemen in similar circumstances which very often than not goes unreported in the services. How are the Police and other forces going to deny an Ashok Chakra to a person belonging to the Security Forces in the future under similar circumstances? <BR/><BR/>With Best Wishes and Regards, <BR/><BR/>Yours Sincerely,<BR/><BR/>Brigadier V Mahalingam (Retired)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-8320978551900394462009-03-21T21:02:00.000+05:302009-03-21T21:02:00.000+05:30Dear Navdeep,Para wise reply to Abhinav's query:-1...Dear Navdeep,<BR/><BR/>Para wise reply to Abhinav's query:-<BR/><BR/>1. If the Warrant of Precedence at the time of Independence is not held sacrosanct then we would have to reconsider the salary of all IAS/ IPS which may result in their landing up in PB-1/ PB-2.<BR/>But with a matured democracy like ours these people are able to get away with all kind of non sense and get accommodated in PB-4.<BR/><BR/>2. Separate pay commission for armed force is indeed a welcome move. His point regarding open ended commitment does not warrant any comment.<BR/><BR/>3. Sadly it is only the Armed Forces which is committed to preserve the external and internal security of the nation. Same is not at all true for our police force. The Indian police force is a blot on this country as it is an epitome of corruption and inefficiency. It is a utterly distasteful to match them with our armed forces. Mr Abhinav may be good in writing letters but sadly his knowledge about our armed forces is superficial and shallow. Due to which he has made a blunder of even matching our Armed force with Indian Police.<BR/><BR/>4. On the issue of corruption he has rightly accepted that our police forces are neck deep in it. But as far as our Armed forces are concerned I beg to differ on the issue. With my over 20 yrs of experience in Indian Army I have still not come across any corrupt official. Though heard about few incidents through newspapers and other sources.<BR/><BR/>5. Lastly I too mourned and cried for one week on my father's death. Can he be recommended for Ashok Chakra?<BR/><BR/>Mr Abhinav high time for you to wake up and start focusing on improving your own department before comparing pay and allowances. <BR/><BR/>cheers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-90428679587316574092009-03-21T20:29:00.000+05:302009-03-21T20:29:00.000+05:30CIVIL - MILITARY RELATIONS – “SNIPERS, STAY AWAY” ...CIVIL - MILITARY RELATIONS – “SNIPERS, STAY AWAY” & “STOP SNIPING” ! <BR/><BR/>Dear Sir,<BR/><BR/>This refers to your mail of 19 March, along with Shri Abhinav Kumar’s comments {on your blog about his articles in ‘Garhwal Post’ (22 February) and in ‘Hindustan Times’ (3 March)}.<BR/><BR/>As mine was the first response published (one page in ‘Garhwal Post’of 24 February), I thought I could perhaps add a few more words, here. (‘Hindustan Times’ did not publish my response to “Snipers Stay Away !”).<BR/><BR/>What Shri Abhinav Kumar has said so rationally and convincingly in his blog now, is in my opinion unexceptional and no reasonable person can disagree with most of it. It is self-evident that all the ‘limbs’ of the State must remain healthy, and function in concert and harmony for the well-being of our country; this harmony can exist only if all these organs of State have genuine esteem and mutual respect for each other, understand each other’s functional constraints/difficulties, culture and existential ethos. But as far as Indian Armed Forces are concerned, unfortunately, it is their perception that this mutuality of esteem and harmony has deliberately been/is being eroded over the years, and it is not the doing of the Armed Forces that the ‘status quo’ is being most purposefully upset, of late ! <BR/><BR/>With this, I would say that Shri Abhinav Kumar’ opinion-piece in the ‘Garhwal Post’ was uncharacteristically (and disappointingly) provocative and abrasive, starting with it’s very title, and it would need a Gandhian to ‘turn the other cheek’ ! Soldiers (even those getting onto their 80s) are not Gandhians, by temperament or training, and hence my immediate riposte (!), on 24 February. But then, we all seem to be like-minded on the basics, and that is all to the good.<BR/><BR/>I must add that the issue of politicization of gallantry awards for 26/11 in Mumbai needed to be treated with sensitivity, delicacy, and a practical sense of timing; all this was certainly not apparent amongst our “instant commentariat” in end-January ! Certainly, bravery and a self-less sense of duty is not a monopoly of any organization or any particular set of people, and all Indians are capable of gallantry and entitled to it’s recognition. But norms must not be suborned by political expediency. On the other hand, one should have no doubt that fine officers like Karkare and Kamte (incidently, son of a course-mate and a Guardsman) acted and would have acted, with valour and staunchness, whatever circumstances they may have faced.<BR/><BR/>I would like to end up by saying that one would continue to look forward to read candid, honest and refreshingly articulated views of professionals like Shri Abbinav Kumar, at any time.<BR/><BR/>Yours sincerely,<BR/>Rajendra Prakash,<BR/>Dehradun.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-30674915924211863652009-03-21T18:19:00.000+05:302009-03-21T18:19:00.000+05:30Dear Major Navdeep,I saw your mail reproduced in R...Dear Major Navdeep,<BR/>I saw your mail reproduced in Report My Signal recently.<BR/>Your introduction to Mr Abhinav Kumar has dispelled certain misgivings about him at least in my mind. Though IPS officers unlike their military counterparts are permitted to express their views in public and communicate freely with the press, I couldn't but wonder how Mr Abhinav Kumar could find time from his expectedly busy schedule, to churn out recent lengthy anti Defence services tirades in the media. I wonder if the time would not have been better spent attending to the clearly tense law and order situation all across the country?<BR/><BR/>That aside, I wish to respond to two points made by him.<BR/><BR/>Firstly is the issue of diluting valour. The discontent in the Defence community is not over whether Shri Karkare and numerous others got the highest gallantry awards, despite being Police Officers. It is about the ‘qualifying act’ that did not at any stage reflect valour- usual or outstanding/ conspicuous. The community of the ‘bravest of the brave’ cannot obviously be too large and great discretion is needed to put such people in that bracket. In one of the articles, in Garhwal Post I recall, Mr Abhinav Kumar has suggested that even media personnel covering the 26/11 needed to be awarded ( I hope he did not have the Ashok Chakra for each and every TV crew member in mind). I definitely find it ludicrous to say the least.<BR/><BR/>We in Defence forces rever the brave. Anywhere. Any nationality. Any profession or service . One person about whose bravery and qualifying act there could perhaps be no doubt, is Constable Oomble. The one who got into a hand to hand scuffle with Kasab, causing his capture, but paying for it with his life. Wow, what valour. His should rank as a ‘bravest of brave effort. And even if the act of ‘doing something’ despite being ‘poorly trained’ had to be rewarded to karkare and others , there are ample police medals that could be conferred. Why and How can it be the Highest gallantary award, for people dying in an ambush? <BR/><BR/>Doling out medals to serve Political and bureaucratic ‘expediency’ by diluting valour cannot be defended. <BR/><BR/>A word about the bureaucratic ‘expediency’. Call it ‘sibling rivalry’ or what you will, but the civil services have since independence persued an agenda of downplaying (downsizing) the Defence forces. Whether it was the gradual and continuous down slide of the ‘order of precedence’ or cloning and over utilization of the rank insignia by police or the creation of fresher ‘home ministry forces’ raised from time to time, or the ever changing and sneaked in changes in pay structure etc have all resulted from a mischievously introduced insecurity by the bureaucracy into the political mindset. Unmindful of the damage it has done to national security. <BR/><BR/>Mr Abhinav Kumar’s reference to our neighbours like Pakistan, Bangladesh etc is obviously to revive the paranoia of a coup by the Military. This bogey is actually responsible for major imbalances in the country’s administration. Nothing can be further from truth, than this one psychosis. India’s first C in C, General Cariappa in one of his first directions after assuming office had ordained that India’s military must stay apolitical. It is a tribute to the ethos of this very fine force that this has remained so till date. Notwithstanding this, there is no recognizable effort to utilize highly motivated, trained and disciplined manpower of the Defence forces into nation building activities/ employment after retirement, which is fairly early in their case. The corporate employs many military veterans trained in multifarious skills at exchequers expense, but unfortunately the nation does not fully utilize this potent force, which is a gross HRD failure. Defence veterans are expert problem solvers with extremely high administrative and numerous technical skills. They should be employed in the plethora of Government organizations, administration, police forces and PSUs. <BR/><BR/>Secondly, it is nobody’s case that one should play down the others role. Each service has a defined task, but the fact remains that the Defence forces constitute the ‘last argument of kings’. They are niche in any society, as they are in India. Unfortunately in India, they have to keep explaining this, and keep fighting for their rights. When any department/ organization fails, they step in. IF andWhen they ever fail, who else can possibly fill in? Why is this lost sight of? Its not a challenge. Its a warning. Insha Allah that day must not come. For if and when it does, those who have led to it would cleverly, politically / bureaucratically wiggle out of the years of neglect, of decades of cancerous decay and a blame game would start. It is in this light that one must view the downslide of 'precedence' of Defence personnel. There can be no rational to the downslide, and whereas it may be difficult to disagree with Mr Abhinav Kumar's question as to why things need to remain the same, it is equally difficult to fathom why the 'last argument of kings' needs gradual but definite downsliding? This despite NOT failing in whatever is tasked to it. <BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>-- <BR/>With Warm Regards,<BR/>Col RP Chaturvedi,Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-4880836385190606052009-03-21T13:12:00.000+05:302009-03-21T13:12:00.000+05:30Comments of Abhinav are quite mature and even hand...Comments of Abhinav are quite mature and even handed. However, I would like to highlight a few issues raised.<BR/>1. Yes, the WOP is not sacrosanct and has not been treated that way. Many inclusions and deletions have taken place over the years. It however appears that the Armed Forces have been the biggest losers.<BR/>2. If indeed Armed Forces were better paid than the other Govt Services, how come the manning levels at the unit level just does not seem to improve. I have seen the continuous drop since 1987 when I got commissioned. Why the IAS/IPS do not have deficiency in their ranks? The raising of additional NSG hubs post 26/11 incident is going to further stretch the already over stretched Army. The deficiency in the Armed Forces is not an internal problem, which certain people would like the nation to believe, but is a national problem with massive and serious implications for the nation if not tackled with pragmatism and without the baggage of political/inter service rivalry.<BR/>3. Bravery is not the personal property of uniformed personnel. It is a personality trait or situation generated. However, yardsticks for grant of bravery awards should be strictly adhered to and not tampered with for political expediency. <BR/>4. The IAS and your fratenity also would like the nation to believe that you are superior to the Armed Forces because of clearing a more difficult and competitive exam, a debatable issue at best. Even for a moment if we agree to this fallacious theory, then Why are the Armed Forces the ultimate weapon/panacea of the Govt?<BR/>I may have raised more questions than answered any, but that's the nature of the debate.<BR/>Devrishi SinghalAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com