tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post6539705825669688724..comments2024-02-08T22:01:40.101+05:30Comments on Indian Military : Service Benefits and Issues: More on “Senior Administrative Grade (SAG) is equivalent to Major General” misnomer etcNavdeep / Maj Navdeep Singhhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11481215977936848477noreply@blogger.comBlogger131125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-32740228027469373222008-10-09T22:21:00.000+05:302008-10-09T22:21:00.000+05:30source :shiv aroor blog....On Tuesday evening, the...source :shiv aroor blog....<BR/><BR/>On Tuesday evening, the Ministry of Defence formally denied the existence of a sensitive article from South Block that Headlines Today put on air the same afternoon -- an article honestly, violently and articulately full of hate for the bureaucracy, and packed with insider detail of just how the pay commission mess has been allowed to snowball into the crisis it is now. Denial apart (there's no way the Ministry could accept the existence of such an article -- that would be tantamount to admitting just how dangerous things have gotten), we stuck by our story and went on air with it again primetime at 9.30pm Tuesday night, double pep, through the night and the earlier half of today. The note, being called an "article" has been authored by senior serving officer(s). Well since the Ministry of Defence denies the existence of the article (in essence, a retort to Shekhar Gupta's column from October 4), and we stand by it, I thought I'd put it up here for anyone who cares to have a look at it. These are excerpts:<BR/><BR/>Setting Up of Committee of Secretaries (CoS). CoS was set up to look into and resolve the anomalies in the 6th CPC report, as highlighted by various Central Govt cadres.<BR/><BR/>Armed Forces Representative Not Included In Any Capacity. Verbal assurances were offered by the officials of the Def Ministry that the issues raised by the Armed Forces were well understood by them and will be pursued most honestly and diligently by the Def Secy (a member in the CoS). Hence, they justified non-inclusion of any Armed Forces Rep in the CoS, even in advisory or observer capacity.<BR/><BR/>Opaqueness in Deliberations of CoS. In absence of any communication from the CoS, the Chairman COSC formally sought that the findings and recommendation of the CoS be shared with the Armed Forces for them to attach their concurrence or observations, if any, prior to the same being submitted to the Cabinet for “Informed Decision Making”. No formal or Informal Response was received to this formal request. <BR/><BR/>Cabinet Decision : Ill Informed. The Cabinet could not be faulted in giving its approval to the recommendations of the CoS. They were fair in assuming that Armed Forces views would have been objectively presented and analysed as the Def Secy was on the panel of CoS.<BR/><BR/>Questionable Manner of Dissemination of Govt Notification of the CPC. The Govt Notification was made available to the Services HQ late on Friday (after 5.30 PM the office closing time in South Block). Further, only that portion of the notification was made available which pertained to the Armed Forces. This prevented the concerned Armed Forces officials to study the Govt Notfn at least until offices opened on Monday; and even then, unable to do any comparative analysis vis-à-vis provisions made for other Govt Services, they would not be in position to analyse the implications on parity/disparity issues for quite some time thereafter.<BR/><BR/>Major Discrepancies Noticed by Armed Forces in Govt Notfn. While being exposed to continued “informal pressure from the bureaucracy” to commence the implementation process, the Armed Forces, with ‘patient haste’ conducted a detailed study and analysis to find “four major discrepancies” in the Govt notfn. While, one of the core anomalies was the legacy of the original CPC report, the Armed Forces were surprised that the other three had been introduced surreptitiously by the CoS itself (please remember, the CoS was constituted to resolve anomalies and NOT create them).<BR/><BR/>Chairman COSC and Services Chiefs Meet RM. The RM, when presented the facts pertaining to the 4 Core Anomalies, was convinced of their logic and legitimacy and promised the Service Chiefs to take up the issue with the PM. He directed the officials in the MoD to communicate the same to the PMO, with his recommendations for early resolution.<BR/><BR/>The Bureaucratic Subversion. In absence of the RM, the MoD did not send any communication to the PMO as directed by the Minister. Instead, it sent a note for consideration of the officials of the Fin Ministry. The note thus sent, diluted the Armed Forces’ case as was presented to the RM and with which the RM had already concurred. The officials of the Fin Ministry diluted the Armed Forces case even further and presented the same to the Fin Minister. The Note, thus rejecting most of the Armed Forces’ observations and proposals was to be dispatched to the PMO.<BR/><BR/>Service Chiefs Meet Finance Minister: Bureaucratic Subversion Partially Exposed. The Service Chiefs (at least the two of them) met the Fin Minister before the Note rejecting the Armed Forces’ case could be dispatched to the PMO. After detailed presentation of their case, the Fin Minister acknowledged that “officials in his Ministry had misled him and had also misrepresented facts”.<BR/><BR/>Bureaucratic Fiat Issued Separately to Three Services to Notify Govt Notfn on Pay Commission so as to Ensure Its Implementation wef 01 Oct 08. Three separate notes were issued separately directly to the three Services HQ (please remember, all communication on the subject between the MoD and the Services were with the Central Pay Commission Cell in the COSC and not directly with the Services HQ). Moreover, the notes were issued by the MoD in absence of the RM who still was away on foreign visit.<BR/><BR/>Service Chiefs Meet PM. The PM responded favorably to the Service Chiefs’ presentation of the core anomalies. He also stated that he had received favorable comments on the issues, from the Fin Minister but, the PMO could not proceed to take a view as it had not yet received any communication on the issue from the MoD. (Please remember again that the RM, before proceeding on visit abroad, had instructed his Ministry to send a formal communication to the PMO).<BR/><BR/>Service Chiefs Meet RM : Fears of Further Exposure of Bureaucratic Subversion. Service Chiefs apprised the RM of their meetings with the Fin Minister and the PM. They also apprised him of the fact that no communication had been sent by the MoD, as personally directed by him) to the PMO. The RM directed a letter drafted immediately, recommending all Armed Forces’ proposals. The same was dispatched, addressed to the PM and personally signed by the RM.<BR/><BR/>Services Chiefs Issue Communication to All Ranks. The nature of sudden and intense media campaign which had potential of subverting the morale and maybe discipline of personnel, issue communications to all ranks in respective services.<BR/><BR/>The following basic principles must be considered and informed view taken in the context of the issue being discussed:<BR/><BR/>Is Govt Authority synonymous with the Bureaucratic Authority? Is Subservience of the Military to the Civil Authority in a Democracy synonymous with Subservience of the Military to Bureaucratic Authority?<BR/><BR/>Each one in the Armed Forces have grown, since their initial induction, learning that in a Democracy, in the context of the Military’s Subservience to the Civil Authority, the Civil Authority signifies the “Elected Govt” and at the larger levels, the “Parliament” and the “Constitution of India”. On day-to-day functioning, the bureaucracy may represent the elected Govt but it surely does NOT replace elected Govt.<BR/><BR/>The bureaucracy misled the Cabinet into believing that their recommendations were based on fair consideration of the views and logic of the Armed Forces (if it was not so, the RM, FM and PM would not have been surprised and found merit in the issues raised by the Armed Forces subsequently).<BR/><BR/>The bureaucracy, knowing the schedule of foreign visits by the RM and PM, deliberately worked in a manner that would prevent exhaustive deliberations with the deadline of 01 Oct and thus pressurise (the pressure was brought through a section of the media, led by Indian Express and a print news agency) the Armed Forces to implement the Pay Commission in its current form and deferring the resolution of the core anomalies indefinitely. This is exactly what they achieved in the case of previous Pay Commission.<BR/><BR/>What is most disconcerting in the bureaucratic design that they resorted to “disobeying instructions of the RM”; and “Misleading the FM and Misrepresenting Facts Before Him”. The charge of “Defiance of Govt Authority” that is being labeled upon the Service Chiefs actually should be labeled upon the Bureaucracy.<BR/><BR/>As for the Service Chiefs withholding Notifying the Govt Order, it is a simple case of they being morally bound to apprise the Govt of their perception of anomalies and ill-effects of implementing its order, prior to blindly executing it. Once the Govt (represented by the RM and PM) found merit in reconsidering the aspects brought before it by the Armed Forces and assured the Service Chiefs of having a re-look, until it got back to the Services with fresh instructions, the Services cannot be blamed for ‘defiance’ or ‘disobedience’. Once the Govt did come back during the previous weekend with interim orders, the Services have accepted the same and are implementing.<BR/><BR/>As far as the communications issued by the three Services Chiefs to all ranks is concerned, one ought to read the complete documents and understand the context. There is nothing in them which can be distantly construed as ‘defiance of govt authority’. In fact, in all manuals on military leadership and of late, also included in teachings on HR by the corporates, one of the abiding principles is that of “keep men informed”. This is expressly meant for men not following prey to rumours, propaganda and misinformation as they can seriously subvert the morale, discipline and ultimately operational effectiveness of any organized group and especially, the Armed Forces.<BR/><BR/>Mr Shekhar Gupta’s contention of the Service Chiefs behaving as “Union Leaders” egged by cheering ex-Servicemen, is gross misrepresentation. The Armed Forces are denied right to form unions, firmly in the belief that the concerns of each individual are addressed by a strict chain of command. This chain leads to the Service Chiefs. The Service Chiefs are thus doing what they ought to do in a democratic setup and purely as per democratic norms which govern the interface between the Civil Govt leadership and its subordinate military leadership. Mr Shekhar Gupta has also attributed the Services Chiefs with “Open Defiance of Civil Authority”. Is he in know of or can he recollect any instance of any act or articulation by services Chiefs which any sensible person can construe as defiance of civil authority? He surely cannot. Further, the ex-Servicemen should, if at all, be complimented for expressing their concerns and grievances, not only in democratic fashion but in a “dignified democratic fashion”. He, through his column, could have actually asked other interest groups and individuals to emulate them.<BR/><BR/>The whole episode so far, has been a classic case of the bureaucracy “subverting the democratic functioning of the state”; “undermining ‘informed – thus wise’ decision making by the Elected Govt”; and “Subverting the Public Opinion by Using/Misusing the Media”.<BR/><BR/>The facts and their sequence as brought out may be verified by those willing and an objective opinion may only be made thereafter. The provisions of the RTI Act would surely help uncover the criminal collusion and lengths to which the officials in the concerned Ministries have gone to, to ensure misrepresentation of issues, misleading their own Ministers (and thus the Govt) with the ill-intent of depriving legitimate dues to the Armed Forces personnel and undermining their status.<BR/><BR/>The bureaucracy, especially those associated with the Defence Ministry, during the past six decades, have found themselves not only increasingly incompetent but even unwilling to develop related competencies, to fulfill their assigned roles. As this episode clearly shows, the bureaucracy have instead, attempted to usurp the role of the Ministers (& thus the Govt) by assigning most of the “decision making” to themselves in the growing belief that in all cases of Ministerial interventions, they can effectively misrepresent facts and mislead the busy Ministers and further, that their acts of commission and omission will never be open to scrutiny of the Armed Forces. In the instant case, the concerned bureaucrats had not bargained for the Service Chiefs walking up the political masters which led to exposing of their nefarious designs and professional gross misconduct.<BR/><BR/>It is anybody’s guess that the current media campaign is the handiwork of the same very bureaucrats in a last ditch effort to scuttle the “Informed Decision Making Process by the Appointed GoM” and to “Cover Bureaucratic Misdeeds & Follies” by raising the bogey of “Armed Forces’ Defiance of the Govt Authority”.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-86085513871755260262008-10-09T17:29:00.000+05:302008-10-09T17:29:00.000+05:30@ annony..subedar is equal to inspector of police ...@ annony..<BR/><BR/>subedar is equal to inspector of police ...<BR/><BR/>if u go to NSG ..U WILL get it right there..<BR/><BR/>and if i m not wrong inspector is responsible for a suba..meaning a part of district...<BR/>so there is nothing wrong in what u r saying...but yes if u ant to compare a DM WITH A SUBEDAR ..WE DONT HAVE ANY PROBLEMS...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-61856456220678265622008-10-09T16:39:00.000+05:302008-10-09T16:39:00.000+05:30dear Pawan,You have gone down upto 1850.If you fur...dear Pawan,<BR/><BR/>You have gone down upto 1850.<BR/><BR/>If you further go down the history then you will find that subedar was incharge of whole suba . Based on this you will say that today's distt magistrate is equal to Subedar.<BR/><BR/>Very intelligent twisting of facts just for getting extra money.<BR/><BR/>Table of precedence is for ceremonial purpose and not for equivalence. This fact can not be negated by putting n number of arguments.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-40608392582536701962008-10-09T13:16:00.000+05:302008-10-09T13:16:00.000+05:30@ annony...defence people too pay taxes..u r doing...@ annony...<BR/>defence people too pay taxes..u r doing no favour to us by paying taxes....<BR/>the ration is not for family it is for the soldier..<BR/>so gets ur fundas correct u might have cracked CAT ..THANK ARJUN SINGH FOR IT ..HE HAS DONE A GR8 JOB IN RECENT PAST..i m sure of that by reading ur post..<BR/><BR/>PLZ APPEAR IN ARMY SELECTION BOARD..IF U CLEAR IT THEN SPK OUT ELSE..KEEP QUITE..AS SILENCE IS ALWAYS GOLDENAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-65717393815872737772008-10-09T13:09:00.000+05:302008-10-09T13:09:00.000+05:30@ annony..we will sit in CAT EXAM AND PUBLISH our ...@ annony..<BR/><BR/>we will sit in CAT EXAM AND PUBLISH our result...y dont u undergo army courses we will publish ur those results too..by the way..i m a post graduate..and that too with distinction...so relax dont live fools paradise.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-19751220725834725062008-10-09T12:29:00.000+05:302008-10-09T12:29:00.000+05:30Qualification Matters. Dear Gentlemen may i recomm...Qualification Matters. Dear Gentlemen may i recommend to you in your own interest that all Army officers must sit in CAT and publish their results on this blog next time. Secondly, every one of us has a close relative in Army, SO WILL YOU HAVE in civil employment. The issue of organised dishonesty in Army can not hooted down, i know it pinches. It is a fact though. Some time we close our eyes because it comforts us, not very long ago The Chief Justice of India said no to enquiry against a judge and see what is happening now. Army is away from public eye for long, this issue is minor in comparision to National interest it is serving. I am merely an Indian and i know that i am paying 25% of my salary towards your pay and allowances alongwith the police forces for the safety i am getting and you are getting ration for family free, away from inflation i suffer. Truth is always bitter for those who do not like it, i am sure you all understand the level of diffence in selection of CDS and IAS, building of UPSC I was not referring, the same exams i was reffering. The urge to collect maximum profit and misuse it on CSD sale is only too well known to this country. God bless you all dear officers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-37300541401356848332008-10-09T11:25:00.000+05:302008-10-09T11:25:00.000+05:30Don't get jittery or uncomfortable. It shows lack ...Don't get jittery or uncomfortable. It shows lack of maturity and understanding. The information was rendered for all people as matter of interest as it shows basis of that WOP as it was introduced officially by the British in India. Everybody knows that WOP has been changed many Times since then. What has actually changed for the worse is the attitude of civil servants who want more power, money and status even when they do not have enough experience in that post. IAS has not nly undermined the status of army, but also of other Civil Services departments by dishonouring the service experience. I once again quote my previous article :---<BR/>" For all of those who are blogging without the knowledge of actual beginning of the warrant of precedence in India. Point to be noted is that while it was by No of years for Civil Officers, Military equivlence was by Rank."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-32738126735009511332008-10-09T10:50:00.000+05:302008-10-09T10:50:00.000+05:30also for your info this WoP has been ratified by h...also for your info this WoP has been ratified by home ministry on 14 Aug 2007. want the ref. will give that too.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02175714197797759871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-78396825221270431722008-10-09T10:48:00.000+05:302008-10-09T10:48:00.000+05:30@anon 7:34 AM saidin any case table of precedence ...@anon 7:34 AM said<BR/>in any case table of precedence is for ceremonial purpose only and one should not read too much in it.<BR/> @anon 7:34 AM<BR/> i can understand you would not want to read too much into it. bcoz the likes of you dont figure in that, it doesnt suit your convinience. armed forces have raised this issue now, it was a mistake not to have raised it much earlier. but better late than never. this time you guys will get it back.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02175714197797759871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-9767097616902434092008-10-09T07:34:00.000+05:302008-10-09T07:34:00.000+05:30dear Pawan,1. it is saddening to note that indian ...dear Pawan,<BR/><BR/>1. it is saddening to note that indian armed forces want to stick to rules of british period despite the fact that these have been changed by Govt of indepandent India. Following facts are worth mentioning as lot of things have changedsince then :<BR/><BR/>(a) In british period indians were mostly at other than officers rank in armed forces.<BR/><BR/>(b) No ration was given to officers.<BR/><BR/>(c) When armed forces officers were coming to civil organisations like MES they were being paid at civil rate only.<BR/><BR/>(d) Lt Col used to be CO of regiment ( now Lt Col is doing company cdr job)<BR/><BR/>(e) Lt Col was a selection post and not time scale promotion without facing any promotion committee.<BR/><BR/>(f) India used to have numurous princely states which have been disbanded after indepandence.<BR/><BR/>(g)Latest table of precedence has been issued in 1979. It is surprising that after almost 29 years Armed forces are making hue and cry<BR/><BR/>2. officers serving in present era have joined forces fully knowing this precedence then why halla gulla now.<BR/><BR/>3. in any case table of precedence is for ceremonial purpose only and one should not read too much in it.<BR/><BR/>thanksAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-77458230577962867022008-10-09T04:07:00.000+05:302008-10-09T04:07:00.000+05:30For all of those who are blogging without the know...For all of those who are blogging without the knowledge of actual beginning of the warrant of precedence in India. Point to be noted is that while it was by No of years for Civil Officers, Military equivlence was by Rank .<BR/><BR/> Warrant of Precedence as it exists today owes its origins in the Royal Warrant by which by which Precedence was regulated in British India, dated 10th September 1850. Civil Servants (East India Company ) had been divided under the Queens Warrant, into six classes according to date and their standings. Following is the extract from page 60 & 70 of the book “ PEERAGE, BARONETAGE, AND KNIGHTAGE, GREAT BRITAIN AND IRELAND, FOR 1860, INCLUDING ALL THE TITLED CLASSES.” By Robert P Dod, Esq, Associate of King's College, London. Published by Whittaker and Co, Ave Maria Lane, MDCCCLX. Gilbert and Rivington, Printers, St Johns Square ; 1860 :--<BR/><BR/>Rule 29. Civilians of the 1st , i.e. of 35 years standing from the date of rank assigned them on their arrival and Maj Generals.<BR/>Ranking jointly amongst each other according to seniority, which is computed amongst the civilians form the date of there entering the class to which they belong and amongst the military officers from the date of their commissions. <BR/><BR/>30.Civilians of the 2nd class i.e. of 20 years standing from the date of rank assigned them on their arrival, and Colonels.<BR/> Ranking jointly amongst each other according to rule No 29.<BR/><BR/>34.Civilians of the 3rd class , i.e. of 12 years standing from the date of rank assigned them on their arrival and Lt Col.<BR/> Ranking jointly amongst each other according to rule No 29.<BR/><BR/>35.Civilians of the 4th class , i.e. of 8 years standing from the date of rank assigned them on their arrival and Majors.<BR/> Ranking jointly amongst each other according to rule No 29.<BR/><BR/>36.Civilians of the 5th class , i.e. of 4 years standing from the date of rank assigned them on their arrival and Captains.<BR/> Ranking jointly amongst each other according to rule No 29.<BR/><BR/> 37. Civilians of the 6th class , i.e. of under 4 years standing from the date of rank assigned them on their arrival and<BR/> Ranking jointly amongst each other according to rule No 29.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-44179258667603774222008-10-08T23:43:00.000+05:302008-10-08T23:43:00.000+05:30anonymous 9.41 pm,1. warrent of precedence bearing...anonymous 9.41 pm,<BR/><BR/>1. warrent of precedence bearing no. 33-Pres/79 dated 26 jul 1979 has been issued by President Sectt. Note -1 of Latest version amended till 13 oct 2007 ( available on this blog also ) is appended below:<BR/><BR/>" Note-1 : The order in this Table of Precedence is meant for State and Ceremonial occassions and has no application in the day-to-day business of Government."<BR/><BR/>as per this note this table of precedence is not meant for equivalence. For day to day functioning, equivalence between Armed Forces and civilians has been issued by tha govt for DRDO, AFHQ, BRO, DGQA, IDS, DAD etc.<BR/>As per these Lt. Col is equal to Deputy sectt level (maximum).<BR/><BR/>2. notwithstanding above, your attention is invited to Article 26 of this table of precedence as per which Jt Sec. & eqv officers are equal to Maj Gen or Equivlenet.<BR/><BR/>3. Please read the notifications properly before drawing any inference.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-41609798572904642042008-10-08T21:41:00.000+05:302008-10-08T21:41:00.000+05:30@ annony..JUST TELL ME ONE THING HAVE U READ THE W...@ annony..<BR/><BR/>JUST TELL ME ONE THING HAVE U READ THE WARRANT OF PRECEDENCE (WOP)..THAT IS THE ULTIMATE DOCUMENT ...DONT QUOTE ADVERTISEMENTS..FOR GOD SAKE...GET A COPY OF WOP THEN TALK..REST ALL IS BULLSHIT ..AND TWISTING OF FACTS BY PEOPLE AS PER THEIR DESIRE..<BR/>IF U R CAPABLE OF COUNTERING WOP THEN SPK OUT... BACCHA...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-23140581430292364272008-10-08T16:28:00.000+05:302008-10-08T16:28:00.000+05:30@ NavdeepExtracts from a PSEB circular for the pos...@ Navdeep<BR/><BR/>Extracts from a PSEB circular for the post of Director(Operations & Technical)<BR/>3. Eligibility:-<BR/>"(d) Government Officers<BR/><BR/>Provided that notwithstanding the qualifications and experience prescribed, officers of the level of Director in Government of India or on equivalent scale of pay or Brigadier in the Army or equivalent rank in Navy/Air Force, on the date of vacancy with adequate experience in the relevant field will be eligible for consideration on immediate absorption basis."<BR/><BR/>Another extract of circular for the post of Managing Director (Helicopter Complex), Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd.:-<BR/><BR/>3. Eligibility:-<BR/>(d) Government Officers<BR/><BR/>Provided that notwithstanding the qualifications and experience prescribed, officers of the level of Joint Secretary in Govt. of India or on equivalent scale of pay or Major General in the Army or equivalent rank in Navy/Air Force, on the date of vacancy with adequate experience in the relevant field will be eligible for consideration on immediate absorption basis.""<BR/><BR/>PLEASE NOTE :- Joint Secretary in Govt. of India OR AN EQUIVALENT SCALE OF PAY or Major General in the Army or equivalent rank in Navy/Air Force. Nowhere does it talk about empannelment.<BR/><BR/>On a similar analogy do you think parity for officers in an acting, substantive, SL or timescale rank should be different vis-a-vis their civilian equivalents in centre ?<BR/><BR/>Therefore, please stop twisting and misinterpretation of facts and stop misleading the readers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-69432530686722361892008-10-08T16:10:00.000+05:302008-10-08T16:10:00.000+05:30Maj Generals were never treated at par with Addl S...Maj Generals were never treated at par with Addl Secy and Lt. Col. were never treated at par with Directors<BR/><BR/>The Public Enterprises Selection Board has been following the following criterion for selection to the Board level posts in the Central PSUs since 1991:<BR/>Schedule A posts: Additional Secretary and Lt.General & equivalents<BR/>Schedule B posts: Joint Secretary and Major Generals & equivalents<BR/>Schedule C posts: Director and Brigadiers & equivalents<BR/>Schedule D posts : Deputy Secretary and Lt. Colonel & equivalents.<BR/><BR/>Even Brigadiers of armed forces have been treated at par with Directors.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-84141010037395998782008-10-08T12:31:00.000+05:302008-10-08T12:31:00.000+05:30The IAS does not rule this country. Parliament doe...The IAS does not rule this country. Parliament does. And one day, the IAS will have its pants taken off for having dared to try and usurp the politicos power. Already IAS officers are justifying their pay and perks by performing high level tasks like holding laloojis spittoon and fetching mayawatijis chappals. This is all the civil services are good for. What is all this faaltu ego. Civil Servants are just "naukars" for politicians after all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-30047231521842174092008-10-07T20:42:00.000+05:302008-10-07T20:42:00.000+05:30as u have rightly said if civilians wants command ...as u have rightly said if civilians wants command and control they should join armed forces. I think u will appreciate that if u want to rule then join IAS and Civil Services. So keep aside your thoughts of ruling this country.<BR/>Still answers to pointed question remains unanswered prove my point of view , why u afraid of answering. Do'nt start abusing if u do'nt have answers face it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-30941340326804425212008-10-07T18:09:00.000+05:302008-10-07T18:09:00.000+05:30stars and flags r meant for army offrs who command...stars and flags r meant for army offrs who command troops and not for those who command casual labours...if i m given a chance i will not allow bro staff to even wear uniform..i saw a chief engr of bro who wore combat dress..and even proposed that they should be allowed to wear it officially....even police should not be allowed to use stars and flags..just see DIG WHO IS B/W LT COL AND COL MOVES AROUND WITH A FLAG AND STAR..WE DONT OBJECT TO IT..SOMEWHERE ARMY IS ALSO RESPONSIBLE FOR THE PRESENT STATE OF AFFAIRS....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-66484876176419851162008-10-07T17:47:00.000+05:302008-10-07T17:47:00.000+05:30I do not understand why are all these civilans aft...I do not understand why are all these civilans after stars ....<BR/><BR/>Police has replicated those blatenly and without proper authorities...Nw the GE of Major rank or Sptt Ehgr of Brig rak also wnats star....<BR/><BR/>Well you all guys are in the defence Forces to asist not command. If you want command and flags and star, please Jion Armed Forces....<BR/><BR/>And my dear "fity percent", those fifty percent are more dangerious when afflicted with MES and BRO viruses....they want nothing less than fifty percent....<BR/><BR/>Ha..ha..ha....<BR/><BR/><BR/>Corruption of any type even in the Army is not tolerable....that is why there are those fifty percent there...Not to take away fifty percent...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-81066956283531252252008-10-07T17:04:00.000+05:302008-10-07T17:04:00.000+05:3050% of OC RCC, GEs posts in GREF and MES are held ...50% of OC RCC, GEs posts in GREF and MES are held by army officers.Larger percentage of maintenence divisions are being handled by them.It will be better for the bloggers to have some decency in writing. In INDIA everyone is Indian.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-61332543899625242302008-10-07T12:27:00.000+05:302008-10-07T12:27:00.000+05:30DO YOU KNOW 2.Every GREF officer is competent to e...DO YOU KNOW 2.<BR/>Every GREF officer is competent to employ 20 casual lab and pocket his wages.<BR/>How?<BR/>They use all their 20 fingers to put as LTI on the muster rolls and pocket the money.<BR/>Innovation at its best.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-34310476673324959232008-10-07T12:16:00.000+05:302008-10-07T12:16:00.000+05:30why are u blaming Jt Secy for BRO for all the wron...why are u blaming Jt Secy for BRO for all the wrongs. BRO is headed by a Lt Gen Rank Officer called DG BR who is much senior than the Jt Secy. BRO is fully controlled by Army officers, Then for all the corruption do u think that civilians are to be blamed. Having full control of BRO in Army , for all good wk u take credit and then corruption is to be blamed to non existent civilians. <BR/>Please reply specifically , is it not that even after Gazette notification of equivalence in BRO U ( Army) is not complying Govt Orders, It it not the same Gazette says that till the time sufficient Maj Gen are available , the post of Chief Engineer which is tenable by civilian Chief Engineer eq to Maj Gen is tio be manned by Brigs. Why Army is so much defiant to democracy. If u are not comfortable answering specific question then better say sorry as GENTLEMEN. Is it not true that in spite of clear evidences u do not allow a Civilian Chief Engineer who is under UNDER army act to use two stars on his vehicles as per official notification. Is the gun power is so strong or u are so much high headed. I do'nt know how u cleared the Psyche test or they take only psyche people.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-66795152443822463982008-10-07T12:10:00.000+05:302008-10-07T12:10:00.000+05:30So what the Babus will get back. If they really wa...So what the Babus will get back. If they really want to have it out we can easily oblige. With or without gloves? Come on, we are are the Kashmir generation, commissioned in late 80's, we are as it is doomed to go to hell after killing so many sodding terrorists. Knocking off a few real well paid 'jihadis' in the South and North Blocks may just prompt Peter to reduce our time in hell.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-75842067848756789002008-10-07T11:03:00.000+05:302008-10-07T11:03:00.000+05:30Dear Friends,It is a record of sorts that highest ...Dear Friends,<BR/>It is a record of sorts that highest Number of Corruption Cases and Vigillance is against personnel of MNS, MES, BRO and then Ordanance. That is the order of discipline case.<BR/>One can file an RTI and the facts can be asertained.<BR/>These are the biggest anti estblishement agents within the Armed Forces. Bro in perticular, which is headed by an IAS officer of Jint secreatry rank is the Gangotri of Corruption in the name of development of Border areas. They are suckers of the highest order who deny the local polulation the work through denial of Contracts. These agencies are eat up all money which otherwise should have gone to the Local PWD Departments for construction of Raods. Locally also they are hated by all the reas they work in as they sell everything there, aggregate to cement to diesal to iron rods and even themselves.<BR/>A deputation duty of Army GD Clerk there fetches about 10 lakh in three years. That is the amount, these so called antinal developers are looting from the Coutry. Tel me a single are in the Country where NTPC, Jay Prakash Constructions and L&T are not prepared to go and undertake contacts.<BR/><BR/>Why are we then having these IAS headed pests in the sevices.<BR/><BR/>In the NE, These pests become anti national elements and even pay commission to the banned militant and anti national organisations like Naga rebels and terrorist to buy out their Security. Their Vehicles and resorces are used by the terrorist to mount ambushes on tha Army..<BR/><BR/>..Need proofs....???<BR/><BR/>If these guys do not shut up many more skeltons will role out of the known places.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Look at the Satans preachinhg Holy Koran.<BR/><BR/>Regards.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1503293844377013031.post-91895751945328361702008-10-07T10:27:00.000+05:302008-10-07T10:27:00.000+05:30DO YOU KNOW.The std accepted unit of corruption in...DO YOU KNOW.<BR/>The std accepted unit of corruption in BRO is Kahlon(abbreviated as Kh).Unit has been adopted to felicitate the most corrupt creature on this earth.<BR/><BR/>Corruption is graded on a scale of 1 to 10Kh.<BR/>MORE TO COME ON THIS "DO YOU KNOW" SERIES.WATCH THIS SPACE.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com